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<smirk>whats gnome shell like windows or what?
<smirk>its an os?
<smirk>i searched it and got garden nomes and a homepage
<smirk>im new to computers
<bavier>it's a desktop environment
<smirk>aight thats what i thought
<smirk>from the page
<smirk>i dunno i love my windows
<smirk>at first at windows ten i was turned off by what seem like an assult of commercials
<smirk>but its great i love it
<smirk>what are you on?
<smirk>fuck it ima go take a shower
<katco>smirk: this channel is for GNU Guix, an OS and package manager. I was wondering from your earlier messages if you mistook this channel for a general "geeks" channel?
<joshuaBPMan>Good evening lovely people!
<Blackbeard[m]>joshuaBPMan: ٩(◕‿◕。)۶
<joshuaBPMan>Blackbeard[m]: very cool name
<Blackbeard[m]>joshuaBPMan: you didn't read my messages the last days
<Blackbeard[m]>because of the matrix bridge
<Blackbeard[m]>I tried to tell you about StumpWM :)
<Blackbeard[m]>I enjoy it so much ٩(◕‿◕。)۶
<Blackbeard[m]>you can reconfigure the keys for any application from the config file
<Blackbeard[m]>so, for instance I can use emacs bindings in icecat
<Blackbeard[m]>without doing any modifications to icecat
<Blackbeard[m]>I don't know, maybe you will like it :) ?
<Blackbeard[m]>I saw you were trying sway
<pkill9>Blackbeard[m]: how does that work?
<pkill9>does it simulate keypresses?
<Blackbeard[m]>yes, I think
<pkill9>nice :)
<Blackbeard[m]>basically you config icecat and the keys you want in and out, let's say you press Control-N and icecat gets arrow down
<pkill9>that's neat
<Blackbeard[m]>It is!
<Blackbeard[m]>you can configure any window
<Blackbeard[m]>with any bindings
<Blackbeard[m]>I like emacs, but you can use anything you want
<joshuaBPMan>Blackbeard[m]: That sounds pretty awesome! But for whatever reason, using X screws with my keyboard layout, and my mouse only moves up and down. Sway set dvorak as the layout, and my mouse always works.
<joshuaBPMan>And I want to use wayland if I can. I keep hearing that X is not not very secure.
<wednesday>I use exwm, and that can do simulation keys, still need to try it heh
<Blackbeard[m]>wednesday: that's the emacs windows manager right?
<Blackbeard[m]>joshuaBPMan: I was unable to use sway with latinamerica Dvorak last time I tried
<Blackbeard[m]>wednesday: ohh cool
<pkill9>i fixed my sstme config, feelsgoodman
<joshuaBPMan>Blackbeard[m]: That's a bummer. Though I am using sway, most of my applications are running on Xwayland....hahaha
<joshuaBPMan>I think that vlc supports wayland though...
<pkill9>joshuaBPMan: do you do any gaming on sway?
<joshuaBPMan>pkill9: No. I'm not a gamer.
<joshuaBPMan>does vlc run on wayland yet?
<pkill9>joshuaBPMan: have you noticed any benefits of swya over xorg?
<Blackbeard[m]>I wanna try sway because I think browser looks better there
<Blackbeard[m]>I think there are less glitches
<joshuaBPMan>sorry, pkill9: On guix system yes!!!! On Debian or another distribution probably not. guix system has a hard time configuring my mouse and keyboard layout. Sway just works. I have noticed some occassional sway issues with
<Blackbeard[m]>but I really enjoy StumpWM as my main thing
<joshuaBPMan>emacs and other applications.
<pkill9>another wayland compositor to check out is wayfire, it's also built on wlroots like sway
<joshuaBPMan>like, this morning I was listening to a video. the video was playing but it was not on the active workspace. aka my sway desktop only showed a terminal. After 20 minutes of listening to the video, I switched back to look at the video. The video was lagging. The sound was at 20 minutes in, but the video was at 10 minutes in. The video was moving faster to try to catch up.
<joshuaBPMan>is wayfire packaged in guix?
<pkill9>no it's not, i made my own package but im having some trouble packaging it properly
<pkill9>i made it before wlroots was packaged in guix
<joshuaBPMan>pkill9: a wayland compositor written in scheme? Woah!
<joshuaBPMan>nevermind. just the definition.
<pkill9>ah, yeah
<pkill9>but that would be cool
<joshuaBPMan>pkill9: I'm hoping to make a sway service. It deserves to have one as awesome as it is.
<joshuaBPMan>And I might take a look at that channel. I'm currently having touble setting up my own channel.
<pkill9>I'm off to sleep, g'night, happy hacking :P
<apteryx>mbakke: seems the openssl 1.1.1b update can break Python httplib and urllib tests (non-deterministically)
<apteryx>Maybe this patch could do but it's only for Python 3 (and based on 3.8.0)
<apteryx>I think I'll disable the tests for now.
<apteryx>(only these 2 failing tests)
<apteryx>oh there's a backport for 3.7 here:
<apteryx>but hasn't been applied to 2.7 yet
<brendyyn>it breaks tinc 1.1 too (not in guix)
***specing_ is now known as specing
<brendyyn>I hypothesise it's just French people that think geeks is a nice sounding pronunciation
<buenouanq>I am not french and that was the most obvious pronunciation consistent with the particular GNU brand of humor.
<brendyyn>obvious, but do you like it
<apteryx>brendyyn: I like it, what's the issue?
<buenouanq>brendyyn: it's the best thing to ever happen to my computer
<brendyyn>I'm just unsure what the average person would think of it. Will they think it sounds lame, or something just for geeks?
<buenouanq>as soon as this project starts concerning itself with the thoughts of the `average person', it will be dead in the water
<brendyyn>I don't plan to kill guix :)
<buenouanq>thanks :3
<brendyyn>But I do want guix to supplant other package managers as the foundation for GNU/Linux distros
<brendyyn>so i do want it in the average persons computer
<buenouanq>that would be nice
<buenouanq>but that's not how it will go down
<brendyyn>I mean, distro's do have their own names, so i guess im just being pendantic
<brendyyn>why not?
<buenouanq>all other package managers will slowly start incorporating the obviously superior features of nix/guix
<buenouanq>it will be terrible and incomplete and miss all the important points
<buenouanq>but they will have it
<buenouanq>and then they'll still point and laugh at us for being too idealistic/academic or whatever
<brendyyn>how can other package managers acquire guix's features without... becoming guix
<buenouanq>it won't be pretty
<brendyyn>It seems like a dubious claim
<buenouanq>┐( '~')┌
<buenouanq>I would be thrilled if the world all saw the light.
<Blackbeard[m]>I don't see snap or flatpak being more Guix like
<buenouanq>I just can't imagine it actually happening.
<buenouanq>Casuals will never get it, and catering to them will only result in a casual product.
<brendyyn>This is not about the average user but distro developers themselves
<brendyyn>It's not so difficult to change distro
<buenouanq>GuixSD changes the distro game entirely though.
<buenouanq>it's this new meta distro concept
<buenouanq>where they are standardizing a process instead of the product
<brendyyn>I mean I'm quite interested in what you think because the whole reason I'm learning to work on guix is because i expect it can succeed (for my definition of success), if it cant then id give up
<buenouanq>every single install of it then effectively becomes a distro
<buenouanq>I'm not sure how vastly popular it will become, but right now it's the obviously superior way to do package management and OS design.
<brendyyn>Do you not think that for example debian developers think highly of this project, that if guix had all the packages debian did, they would switch?
<buenouanq>Retrospectively, that we ever didn't do it this way just seems boggling...
<katco>is anyone using guix with purism's librem laptops?
<buenouanq>katco: I've preordered the Libre5 and am super interested to see if we can't put GuixSD on it at some point.
<katco>buenouanq: i'm interested in that as well, but i am currently, specifically, looking at the laptop. i'm unsure how guix would work with its TPM chip and coreboot, etc.
<buenouanq>brendyyn: I think that as soon as you really understand the benefits of Guix as a package manager, you can't help but start to build your whole OS around it - Thus GuixSD.
<buenouanq>So any Debian that uses Guix is needlessly crippled.
<buenouanq>the logical extreme is GuixSD in every case
<brendyyn>Sorry, I didn't explain myself clearly
<brendyyn>I mean completely switch to Guix System
<buenouanq>well then the Debian part of it loses all meaning...
<brendyyn>Yeah that's fine it's not what I meant
<brendyyn>I mean that for example the next Ubuntu would start by building on a guix foundation instead of an apt foundation
<brendyyn>what ever its called
<buenouanq>yes, that would be cool and great
<smirk>is guix an installation maker?
<buenouanq>but anyone who's doing that will soon realise that they're needlessly limiting what they can do
<smirk>im confused
<smirk>thats a package manager isnt it?
<buenouanq>and the only way not to is to just embrace GuixSD
<buenouanq>so you can have distros of GuixSD
<buenouanq>but that doesn't really mean much because it's this meta distro thing
<brendyyn>yes thats what i mean
<buenouanq>every new install of it is effectively your own personal distro
<apteryx>brendyyn: I'm not too interested into discussing such a subjective topic (and it already has been -- search the mailing list archive), but I find Guix to be a great name; to me it is the least of concerns on the road to democratize Guix.
*brendyyn is apparently terrible at explanations
<buenouanq>I'm bad at understanding and talking and everything too, no need to self depricate ( ._.)
<buenouanq>How would a Canonical download of GuixSD differ from the original official GNU one?
<smirk>i even looked up distro
<smirk>im trying not to ask but dang
<brendyyn>Well proprietary software for one
<smirk>whats a package manager
<buenouanq>smirk: it manages packages ;3
<smirk>an install maker for programmers programmings to be packegded for distribution?
<Blackbeard[m]>brendyyn: good things are worth doing
<brendyyn>smirk: ?
<Blackbeard[m]>not because they are famous
<smirk>naver mind i gotta go to an aa meeting
<Blackbeard[m]>but because they are good
<smirk>see you guys later
<buenouanq>brendyyn: but you can do that from GuixSD as it stands anyway. So you just mean the defaults, which I see as trivial.
<brendyyn>cya smirk
<apteryx>buenouanq: it's not called Guix System (no more GuixSD)
<apteryx>it's now*
<brendyyn>buenouanq: haha
<buenouanq>well, that's more in line with this meta thing
<buenouanq>any instance of it is a distribution of the guix system
<Blackbeard[m]>apteryx: and the package manager?
<apteryx>just Guix
<Blackbeard[m]>how can I configure WiFi?
<buenouanq>so building your own distro to release from it is as simple as sharing a config.scm file.
<Blackbeard[m]>I saw some scheme in the manual
<Blackbeard[m]>but I didn't really understand
<apteryx>Blackbeard[m]: I use nmtui with network-manager (part of the base services)
<atw>katco: hello! Sorry I haven't followed through post-STL, work's kept me too busy to do much FOSS :(. I've been using GuixSD on a librem for a little over a year. A good experience! I think cbaines has one as well. I did have to one weird trick to get the backslash/pipe working
<brendyyn>buenouanq: Ok so to explain. If you look on you will see that everyone and her granndmothers dog has created a GNU/Linux distribution. I'm hoping that over time, such people will start to think, "Hey, lets build a distribution with Guix System at its foundation" Here "distribution" means Guix System + custom destkop setup, wall papers, design, website, extra packages, different versions if
<apteryx>or nmcli
<brendyyn>needed, forum, maybe some GUIs for managing Guix etc etc
<Blackbeard[m]>also, how do I Mount and external encrypted drive at boot?
<Blackbeard[m]>apteryx: thanks :)
<Blackbeard[m]>I thought there was something to do in the config.scm
<brendyyn>And in that sense, Guix will _supplant_ other package managers
<apteryx>Blackbeard[m]: if you use a full blown DE such as Gnome of course you can use the GUI part of network-manager, I guess.
<Blackbeard[m]>I use stupmwm
<katco>atw: sorry, what is "post-STL"?
<apteryx>I'm currently using ratpoison, so nmtui/nmcli works for me.
<apteryx>cool, same family of WM ;-)
<Blackbeard[m]>apteryx: ٩(◕‿◕。)۶
<Blackbeard[m]>I have ratpoison too
<buenouanq>brendyyn: yes, but I'm not sure they should be considered differnt distros. The differences between distributions of Guix System are trivial - While the differences between Ubuntu and Funtoo are not at all.
<atw>katco: we met at Strange Loop and talked about trying to figure out Andy Wingo's potluck plans
<buenouanq>even between 2 things both based on Debian aren't trivial
<brendyyn>buenouanq: well, such semantics are unimportant to my point ^_^
<katco>oh! hello! ha, i thought i'd be the one apologizing. i have been contributing quite a bit recently, but i also had been kept busy before that :)
<buenouanq>yes except if I ran distrowatch, I wouldn't let these be counted as different distros
<buenouanq>like I said, GuixSD changes the distro game entirely
<buenouanq>it doesn't map at all to how we have been thinking about these things
<brendyyn>im a little confused
<katco>atw: i don't suppose you have a write-up of your experience on the librem with guix? specifically, how does it work with coreboot, tpm, heads, etc.? i'm a bit ignorant of most of that, so i'm not exactly sure how that would work
<buenouanq>or maybe I am
<brendyyn>I see what you mean, but for example Ubuntu and Kubuntu are essentially the same distribution but they still have different names
<buenouanq>but with a single command can you turn ubuntu into kubuntu?
<brendyyn>sure. i mean such points are irrelevent
<brendyyn>I'm just talking about what people will do, I don't care what words you use to describe it
<buenouanq>I'm not sure that's true. It's certainly not as simple as Guix System makes it.
<Blackbeard[m]>and what about mounting an external encrypted hard drive at boot
<buenouanq>with your config.scm, I can very easily turn whatever Guix I'm using into yours with a single short command.
<buenouanq>what goes into config.scm is consistent and straightforward.
<brendyyn>Yes, and I understand
<brendyyn>You can pretend I said "spin" instead of "distribution", It' doesn't matter
<buenouanq>well if you're counting all the different config.scms as `distros' we already far suplant all existing ones
<atw>katco: no writeup, unfortunately, but I bought the hardware with totally-free distro support in mind. re coreboot: no problems there. re tpm: I'm not sure to what extent the tpm in mine is disabled. re heads: I don't think I use that but I have been meaning to get the librem key
<atw>and I did have to do this to make the pipe/backslash key work. I mention that because I did not figure it out for a long time so I hope to save others the trouble. Maybe I should blog it!
<katco>atw: cool. i'm still debating whether i want a librem or something else, but i'm leaning heavily towarrds purism. maybe we should have some kind of package for bootstrapping librem images for guix ;p
<atw>what could we put in such an image?
<katco>well, your pipe/backslash fix for starters
<katco>also, even when package do very little, it gives me confidence to see them named in the distro. it signals to me that someone has already gone digging and declared "this is all you need to do for support". and if they're wrong, there's a flag in the ground to start from
<atw>yeah, that seems to be a hardware problem and I adapted my solution from
<katco>i think i'll put an email out to the mailing list just to collect everyone's experiences into one thread
<atw>and we have bootloaders for several ARM devices, so why not this too? Maybe with enough weekends I can get a server going and distribute substitutes and handy disk-images. I got GuixSD installed on my hosting provider (with difficulty, should have tried DO :P) so it should be possible
<katco>yeah, right? i am also looking at getting guix on some single-board arm machines. and with all my guix usage, i need to get a substitution server setup for my network
<katco>i'm not sure if you're aware, but i work at DO :) we have a BYO image feature now. i half-heartedly tried to use guix's image, but it didn't work. i didn't have time to look into why
<atw>hence why I mention it! My server is sorta frankendebian
<atw>I should try DO. I don't know how many hosting providers have byo image, but I think it's rare
<Blackbeard[m]>what is DO?
<Blackbeard[m]>katco: ohh digital ocean
<Blackbeard[m]>your guides are great
<katco>yes, sorry. acronyms abound
<katco>yeah, do's guides are definitely awesome!
<Blackbeard[m]>katco: what do you think is the most secure OS for a cloud provider
<Blackbeard[m]>I want to make a home server with only nextcloud
<Blackbeard[m]>and give free accounts to friends
<Blackbeard[m]>but I am afraid of hacking
<Blackbeard[m]>I don't even know how people realizes somebody gained root access
<Blackbeard[m]>can I pm you? I don't want to go offtopic here :/
<katco>atw: speaking of andy, does he hang around guix much anymore? i know he's contributing heavily to guile, but i haven't seen his name on the mailing list in awhile
<dongcarl>Hi all, one last step until I can get cross-compiling Guix builds working for Bitcoin...
<dongcarl>I need libssp from my cross-gcc
<dongcarl>However, that's in cross-gcc:lib
<dongcarl>and based on the code here, we've disabled that:
<dongcarl>Wondering what's the easiest/best way to get that back?
<raingloom>hi! i'm trying to package mininet based on the Arch package, but can't figure out which package corresponds to Arch's iputils?
<raingloom>or, to reframe it: which package has ping in it?
<apteryx>realpath `which -a ping`
<apteryx>says: inetutils
<dongcarl>Does this channel have a bot/way to leave a message?
<apteryx>dongcarl: yes, you can use 'sneek: later tell <username> your message'
<raingloom>apteryx: thanks! I'm on Arch so I couldn't look it up that way.
<Blackbeard[m]>my guix us working now ٩(◕‿◕。)۶
<Blackbeard[m]>I just need to know how to Mount an encrypted drive at boot
<Blackbeard[m]>and I'll be all sen
<Blackbeard[m]>I can Mount it manually too though
<dongcarl>sneek: later tell civodul Hey I'm wondering what the motivation behind `a49c57a7` was... I need to statically link libssp for my cross-compile, and those files are usually under `gcc:lib`, but of course because of the aforementioned patch, the cross-gcc doesn't have a `lib` output. What could I do?
<sneek>Will do.
<apteryx>raingloom: the description of the inetutils package could be better... Ideally this should have found it: guix package -s . | recsel -e 'description ~ "\bping\b"'
<apteryx>but it doesn't, since the description of inetutils is simply: "Inetutils is a collection of common network programs, such as an ftp client and server, a telnet client and server, an rsh client and server, and hostname.".
<apteryx>Feel free to hack a better description for it, mentionning the common commands it contains.
<atw>katco: you're right, maybe not so guix-involved
***apteryx_ is now known as apteryx
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<sneek>civodul, you have 1 message.
<sneek>civodul, dongcarl says: Hey I'm wondering what the motivation behind `a49c57a7` was... I need to statically link libssp for my cross-compile, and those files are usually under `gcc:lib`, but of course because of the aforementioned patch, the cross-gcc doesn't have a `lib` output. What could I do?
<civodul>i guess that commit was a simplification, as it says
<civodul>but if you use -static-libgcc and similar options, it should just work no?
<Blackbeard[m]>civodul: hello ٩(◕‿◕。)۶
<Blackbeard[m]>everything is working :D
<Blackbeard[m]>civodul: how can I Mount an external encrypted hard drive at boot?
<Blackbeard[m]>is the only thing left that I need
<roptat>hi guix!
<civodul>hey roptat!
<civodul>Blackbeard[m]: hi!
<civodul>i'm not the only support person ;-)
<Blackbeard[m]>civodul: oh I know
<Blackbeard[m]>but I asked earlier and nobody answered :/
<roptat>what was your question?
<Blackbeard[m]>roptat: how to Mount an encrypted external hard drive at boot
<civodul>Blackbeard[m]: yeah, np
<roptat>you'll have to add a new entry in your file-systems
<civodul>Blackbeard[m]: i think you may find answers her:
<roptat>well, what civodul said :)
<Blackbeard[m]>ohh but it doesn't mention how to unlock automatically
<Blackbeard[m]>I wanted to create some key or something
<Blackbeard[m]>so I don't have to pass the password
<roptat>I don't think it's possible
<Blackbeard[m]>roptat: oh ok
<Blackbeard[m]>civodul: thank you too :)
<Blackbeard[m]>if I want to compile krita source code
<Blackbeard[m]>I can do it with
<Blackbeard[m]>guix environment krita
<roptat>yes, that will give you all you need to build krita
<roptat>you can get the sources with guix build krita --sources
<roptat>mh.. --source
<Blackbeard[m]>ohh even better
<Blackbeard[m]>will that be the git source,s?
<Blackbeard[m]>git needs quazip
<Blackbeard[m]>I will write the package
<roptat>Blackbeard[m], this will get you the sources that guix uses
<roptat>it could be the git sources or a tarball or something else
<roptat>if there are patches or snippets in guix, they are applied and you get the result of that
***kensington_ is now known as kensington
<Blackbeard[m]>roptat: I see
<Blackbeard[m]>I need krita git for what I am doing, but it is ok, I can write the package for quazip and anything else needed and send the definitions upstream :)
***jonsger1 is now known as jonsger
<lprndn>Hello guix!
<lprndn>Does Guix system use a wrapper for xsessions?
<pkill9>is it possible to get the defined module path in that module? i want to modify 'search-patches' so that it searches <directory-this-module-is-in>/patches, which would retain current functionality but let external channels use a 'patches' subdirectory, currently it's hardcoded to "gnu/packages/patches"
***Glider_IRC_ is now known as Glider_IRC
<roptat>pkill9, I don't use channels but in the case of GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH, you can add patches at the top-level directory
<lprndn>Yeay! Just so you know, it does! And now I have a workinf lightdm service! :D
<civodul>lprndn: woohoo! nice!
<civodul>looks like everyone has grown tired of heavyweightdm :-)
<jonsger>nice lprndn :)
<lprndn>I'll refactor a little and send the patches if anyone want to test.
<jonsger>civodul: in the Join message there is still a link :P
<civodul>jonsger: i don't think there's anything to replace it yet!
<pkill9>roptat: that's what i do but i want to put them in a patches subdirectory
<pkill9>so it's cleaner
<pkill9>but i'll have to make a new search-patches function for now if i want to do that
<dongcarl>civodul: Sorry I'm a bit slow to catch on to your meaning, do I add `-static-libgcc` to the list of config flags for my cross-gcc? Or for my final product?
<jonsger>civodul: thats the one it gets resolved to
<wednesday>Is there a way to ignore/get ssl certs? A couple torrent websites I am on/use wont work because of ssl certs
<dongcarl>wednesday: `nss-certs`?
<wednesday>Got it
<wednesday>Dosn't have the certs I need
<dongcarl>Strange... what browser r u using?
<wednesday>It's not for browsing, It's for torrenting
<wednesday>The torrent trackers use ssl, and I don't have the certs to connect to those trackers
<wednesday>And I need to set this shit up before I start getting kicked off some websites ha
<civodul>jonsger: hmm what resolves to that?
<civodul>dongcarl: -static-libgcc would be for your final binaries
<dongcarl>civodul: Hmmm, and that would make `libssp` link statically?
<jonsger> civodul
<civodul>jonsger: ah yes, that's expected; but the join message does not mention, does it?
<civodul>dongcarl: i would think so but i'm not entirely sure actually
<civodul>libssp is the stack smashing protection run-time library, right?
<dongcarl>civodul: Yes
<wednesday>Well I found an rtorrent config option to ignore the certs, but thats not the funnest fix ha
<jonsger>civodul: it does: "Guix in high-performance computing:"
<civodul>oh that's in the topic
<civodul>ok, so what? :-)
<jonsger>I tought you wann purge GuixSD :P
<brendyyn>wednesday: Why aren't they there, are they on other distros? Is rtorrent failing to find the certs?
<civodul>dongcarl: i just tried on a toy example, and when building with -fstack-protector, i don't see libssp as NEEDed in the ELF file
***dddddd_ is now known as dddddd
<civodul>so i'm not sure how this all works
<civodul>jonsger: ah yes, we do, but i think the DNS entries are not quite ready
<dongcarl>civodul: even with `-fstack-protector-all`?
<wednesday>brendyyn: never had any issues with other distros, but I'm pretty sure the problem is that nss-certs dosn't have the certs I need
<civodul>dongcarl: indeed, even with -fstack-protector-all, but maybe that's because my example is too simply to require libssp support?
<civodul>(that's on a native compile)
<brendyyn>which package should they be in
<dongcarl>civodul: native compile with `gcc:lib` in the environment or no?
<wednesday>brendyyn: Probably in none, but in there is a link to a cert auth, they might have the certs I want, who knows
<wednesday>I don't know any easy ways to add certs to test, I don't like the feeling of going into /etc/ssl/certs/ and changing stuff manually
<brendyyn>make a package?
<wednesday>But that requires a lot of time for what I'm not sure will even work, and I can't do what the dude in githud said because /etc/ssl/certs is read only ha
<civodul>saluton quiliro!
<jonsger>lprndn: how did you start lightdm? could you share your config file?
<dongcarl>civodul: It would seem that libssp.a is under `/gnu/store/...-<gcc-cross-$TARGET>-.../$TARGET/lib`
<dongcarl>Adding that to CROSS_LIBRARY_PATH and setting -static-libgcc didn't work tho... which is odd
<dongcarl>I think it's a cross-only problem, because I never had this problem while building native
<civodul>hmm ok
<civodul>then i'm not sure what the problem is, or if it's the intended behavior
<civodul>dongcarl: do share your findings on simply report the issue on bug-guix though, so we can keep track of it
<lprndn>jonsger: I use the base lightweiht-desktop.scm with gdm removed and lightdm service added
<lprndn>but here it is:
<lprndn>(password for alice is q)
<lprndn>"q" without quotes
<lprndn>tested only in a vm for now
<quiliro>please defend the rights of free software developers by avoiding the purchase of products from USA, England or Ecuador
<quiliro>there is an acquaintance which was jailed without probable cause for cracking onto the Ecuadorian president's and his family's computers and phones...the incarceration process has been very irregular and he is to be 90 days in prison even if they cannot prove anything
<quiliro>his name is Ola Bini and is a friend of Julian Assange
<brendyyn>ok but i dont think boycotting entire countries is going to make a difference
<wednesday>quiliro: How do I not purchase products from my own country(uk)? and why wouldnt I?
<quiliro>brendyyn: boicot is a powerful form of making a does make a diference
*ng0 facepalms out of here
<brendyyn>Should we boycott planet Earth?
<quiliro>if you buy products from those countries you are supporting their policies
<wednesday>quiliro: Are you talking about the assange stuff? Most uk political partys don't even want to send him back to america, most of them just want the whole sweden rape charge delt with
<quiliro>we can prefer more just countries
<quiliro>wednesday: please clarify
*kmicu *coughs* Guix, Guix, Guix.
<quiliro>sorry for the OT but whoever has visited prisoners knows how terrible it is anywhere...more so in Ecuador
<wednesday>long story short, most british politicians don't support sending him back to the US, but they do support sending him to sweden if they reopen the rape case againt him
<wednesday>thats all im gunna say heh
<quiliro>wednesday: that means sending him to usa
<wednesday>no that means sending him to sweden for his rape charge
*kmicu *coughs* Guix, Guix, Guix.
<wednesday>ya thats enough heh
<brendyyn>Really need an offtopic channel
<quiliro>it was just a friendly petition...if you want to support assange and ola bini...if you don't, i understand
<wednesday>when did anyone say they don't support them? ha and brendyyn yea, but who would go there? ha
<brendyyn>I do support them.
<quiliro>for me freedom is important...especially physical is really on topic
<wednesday>#guile is now the off-topic channel =^)
<quiliro>anyway...returning to the informatics...
<quiliro>the informatics part of Guix, i mean
<quiliro>I have an error when running system reconfigure with keyboard definition on xorg
<wednesday>show the config, I had problems with it before
<quiliro>it hints to add (use-modules (gnu services xorg))
<quiliro>but it did not ask so on the manual
<wednesday>just do it and see if it fixes it, or post your config heh
<civodul> <- followup to a talk i regularly mention about licensing issues that arise from container image opacity
*kmicu is happy to see that civodul mentioned Guix in the comments 😺
<kmicu>Hi rain1 ( ^_^)/
*abcdw imported 240 crate package definitions, still can't build alacritty :(
<brendyyn>why are there so many crates for things?
<brendyyn>do they make smaller modular packages?
<civodul>kmicu: i couldn't help!
<civodul>this container image situation is so terrible
<kmicu>brendyyn: Yep, Haskell has a similar preferance but also we need to keep in mind that complex Alacritty is nothing like dead simple st.
<roptat>I'm trying to use %read-line to read a file, but how do I test for #<eof>? the compiler complains when I try to use that symbol
*kmicu looks at
<brendyyn>I was thinking of extending guix pack to use instead of tarballs. even wrapping them into self executing standalone programs!
<brendyyn>the advantage is mounting the image withoud having to read the entire file like with tar
<brendyyn>abcdw: maybe package ripgrep next if your into rust packaging
<quiliro>i cannot find a way to paste directly to or some other site with emacs
<quiliro>maybe a paste is not necesary any more right now....but it will be in my futuro
<kmicu>You could ask on #emacs for some tips but generally we need to use external packages for additional features
<brendyyn>kmicu: st?
<pkill9>out of curiosity, how might a GUI settings editor be implemented for guix? would it generate a config each time and reconfigure the system with it
<jonsger>civodul: do we have inside a guix pack any information about how it got created?
<kmicu>brendyyn: like all things from Suckless it’s a terminal emulator with very minimal deps (nice if you have basic needs and compile your stuff).
<brendyyn>pkill9: This is something I've been thinking about too and am wondering what people think. Currently, as buenouanq says, everyones Guix system installation is like a separated distro with no standard way of managing it
<brendyyn>Perhaps it will require creating some new convention for laying out ones operating-system conf file
<brendyyn>then the gui could save its own config, inherit modify and output /etc/operating-system.scm. I really don't know
<kmicu>You could start by using Customize system from Emacs. It’s basically the same thing.
<kmicu>( )
<abcdw>brendyyn, I have very bad time building alacritty, but if I get success with it I will think about packaging ripgrep.
<pkill9>i've noticed the guix command line is faster
<pkill9>for searching packages
<brendyyn>faster than what
<pkill9>faster than it was, atleast for me
<brendyyn>Still slower than other package managers. i hope to learn how to improve it
<brendyyn>It's literally 100 times slower than running rg on the guix git repo
<brendyyn>Intersting. `guix package -s emacs' both take 1.14 seconds on my laptop and desktop, and yet my desktop has an M.2 drive and much faster cpu
<civodul>jonsger: yes, there's the profile's manifest, and --save-provenance can provide channel information on top of that
<kmicu>Is here anyone from Software Heritage?
<kmicu>If not thank you anyway.
<brendyyn>I wonder if they would archive source files that change in-place
<brendyyn>re-downloading them occasionall
*kmicu wonders why French organizations lead the way (e.g. Frama, INRIA) in European libre software ecosystem 🤔
<kmicu>(OCaml, Guix, SH, Frama* all those goodies are from France.)
<ng0>not really.. OCaml is international, Guix is,..
<civodul>kmicu: i think free software is (should be?) logicial to scientists used to peer review and sharing
<quiliro>how to strat next browser?
<quiliro>after 'guix package -i next-gtk-webkit'
<kmicu>But that logic is universal. Why France then? (Maybe cuz Liberté, égalité, fraternité are close to your hearts (or b/c Berlin has been taken over by venture capitalists ;) 🤷)
<kmicu>quiliro: if you still have its hash you could list /gnu/store/next’s hash*/bin/* for available binaries.
<kmicu>(Maybe sbcl-next is the name? Don’t remember.)
<civodul>BTW did you notice the funny logo in ?
<civodul>i hadn't noticed at first glance
<quiliro>kmicu: i do not have the hash now ... but isn't it supposed to be gettable?
<brendyyn>I wish the mice in my kitchen weren't reproducible -.- I've killed so many
<kmicu>quiliro: ‘ls /gnu/store/*next*/bin/’ should show something useful.
<kmicu>civodul: that’s like in that experiment with invisible gorilla. Now, after pointing that out, it’s so obvious. Such kind touch from SH folks. ヽ(*^▽^)/
*kmicu referred to story.
<quiliro>thank you kmicu
<quiliro>brendyyn: maybe if you stop feeding them...
<quiliro>brendyyn: keep everything sealed on metal and glass
<brendyyn>they come at this time of yearrr
<brendyyn>its how i know winter is here
<brendyyn>but i always win the war
<bavier>civodul: that is an excellent logo
<quiliro>which next-gtk-webkit
<quiliro>ls -l /home/quiliro/.guix-profile/bin/next-gtk-webkit
<quiliro>ls -l /gnu/store/s71vxpr2zz4x8zv1lsacx6arq5fqi5xx-next-gtk-webkit-1.2.0/bin/
<quiliro>give me: /gnu/store/s71vxpr2zz4x8zv1lsacx6arq5fqi5xx-next-gtk-webkit-1.2.0/bin/
<brendyyn> is dead?
<quiliro>and ls /gnu/store/*next*/bin/ gives me:
<brendyyn>guix substitute: error: connect: Network is unreachable
<quiliro>two bins...
<quiliro>probably because of an update
<kmicu>(Yep, xab64ivy2rar7pf57jnqdv66kl8d6pjm is not linked to your current profile so it should be removed after next garbage collection.)
<dongcarl>civodul: Thanks, I'll post on the mailing list
<dongcarl>Congrats on the software heritage org announcement everyone!
<civodul>brendyyn: was temporarily down, should be back up now!
<brendyyn>civodul: Thank you very much
<brendyyn>I notice when it failed it did not fallback to building it from source, guix just stops, but when i set --substitute-urls=https:.//, guix now starts building flac.
<brendyyn>neither time did i have --fallback
<quiliro>is next good enough for production yet? i noticed the package for users is sbcl-next not next-gtk-webkit
*kmicu somehow always thinks that Don G Carl must be some mafia boss (purely based on nick handle 😹).
<kmicu>quiliro: it looks like it still has some rough edeges
<dongcarl>kmicu: *deep voice* You know what we do with people who violate the purity of `/gnu/store` by `sudo rm`-ing around here?
<kmicu>Sorry boss. I swear it will never happen again.
*dongcarl laughs in bootstrappability
<brendyyn>interesting that after running guix pull, guix build guix still results in compiling guix.
<roptat>that's because you're not building the guix that was built by guix pull
<brendyyn>oh thats right
<roptat>guix pull updates to the latest revision of guix, while guix build guix uses the package definition of your guix which cannot be itself
<brendyyn>i wanted to run guix size guix, but it errored
<brendyyn>how can i refer to the actuall current guix to check its size?
<roptat>maybe with store path? does that work with guix size?
<roptat>yep it does :)
<quiliro>how to run sbcl-next?
<brendyyn>ha, I found and error that refers to Nix instead of Guix
<roptat>quiliro, "sbcl" maybe?
<roptat>I think this -next is not for the browser, but for the version (like guile-next)
<quiliro>i found it: next
<brendyyn>its a browser called next actually
<brendyyn>not to be confused with a next version of sbcl compiler
<roptat>hm... ok
<pkill9>is there a way to switch user when using SDDM as login manager?
<pkill9>TIL you can switch TTY with loginctl
***drewc_ is now known as drewc
<abcdw> 448 crate packages and probably I have some cycle dependencies here :/
<dongcarl>sneek: later tell civodul I figured it out. `gcc -dumpspecs` show differences between the `link_ssp` spec between native and cross:
<sneek>Will do.
<reepca-laptop>hm, I'm not very acquainted with autotools, and I'm wondering how to substitute $(libexecdir) into guix/ from the Makefile. I know if I was doing it from the configure file generated from, I'd just put an AC_SUBST, but I can't do it from there because the variables the value of libexecdir is based on might change at any time up until 'make install'. The same variable is used in nix/, but instead of
<reepca-laptop>being substituted it's just defined as a C preprocessor macro.
<Blackbeard[m]>what do I need to reboot and poweroff without sudo?
<pkill9>Blackbeard[m]: possible `loginctl poweroff`/`loginctl reboot`
<pkill9>not gonna try as i dont wanna poweroff or reboot, lol
<lfam>Completely substituted `guix pull` 🙌
<lfam>Fantastic for my slow machines!
<lfam>What used to take hours on one embedded machine now takes only a few minutes for `compute-guix-derivation`
<Blackbeard[m]>pkill9: thanks
<Blackbeard[m]>how do you start services
<Blackbeard[m]>in systemd I did
<Blackbeard[m]>systemctl start privoxy
<Blackbeard[m]>how do you that here?
<wednesday>herd mpd start
<Blackbeard[m]>wednesday: thanks
<Blackbeard[m]>ok so how do I know what services are there?
<Blackbeard[m]>because I tried with privoxy and it didn't work
<Blackbeard[m]>I want to start privoxy, tor and emacsserver
<Blackbeard[m]>that's it 🤔
<pkill9>that doesn't work for me wednesday
<wednesday>pkill9: sudo
<reepca-laptop>wednesday: other order, "herd start mpd"
<pkill9>is it possible to add a service to your configuration but have it disabled?
<wednesday>reepca-laptop: ah yea
<Blackbeard[m]>anyone uses mu4e and mbsync
<Blackbeard[m]>when I try to open my email it says
<Blackbeard[m]>mbsync command not found
<Blackbeard[m]>but I did install it
<reepca-laptop>pkill9: shepherd services have an 'enabled?' slot. This can't be set at definition-time, though, it has to be set by invoking the "enable" method after the service is created. I can't see an easy way to put that in the generated configuration file, though. You can, however, control whether they get automatically started via the 'auto-start?' field of the <shepherd-service> that's used to extend shepherd-service-type.
<ATuin>i need some help, when trying to build guix from git i get the following error: no binding `zip' to hide in module (gnu packages compression)
<ATuin>i guess i'm missing some guile library but according to the manual running guix environment guix should be enough
<ATuin>any idea?
***apteryx_ is now known as apteryx
<dongcarl>anyone tried making a cross compiler for riscv64 with Guix yet?
<laalf>/mnt/etc/config.scm:168:4: error: services: unbound variable. what #:use-modules do i have to use? also is there an easier solution to that?
<laalf>on line 168 a simple-service gets defined
<reepca-laptop>laalf: section 8.1 of the manual has an example config that uses some of the basic necessary modules. The main one is (use-modules (gnu)).
<laalf>reepca-laptop: yeah thanks that solved it. now onto fixing whatever other crap i wrote
<laalf><unknown location>: error: invalid field specifier. i love my life
<nckx>Guile error messages Could Be Improved™.
<reepca-laptop>laalf: It'd be a lot easier to help if you pasted the config you're trying to get working:
<laalf>reepca-laptop: yeah i found my issue
<laalf>is there an lxqt service yet?
<wednesday>Does modify-services modify all the services of that kind? Because I want an auto login on one of the mingetty-service-types but don't want to have to do something stupid
<reepca-laptop>wednesday: modify-services does modify all services of that service type, but what you want is still achievable in this case:
<wednesday>reepca-laptop: awesome, ill give that a go soon
<dongcarl>Hey all, any way to programmatically get the path of a package inside an environment without a series of greps and seds on $GUIX_ENVIRONMENT/manifest ?
<laalf>dongcarl: readlink -f ${which guix}
<bavier>dongcarl: the package store path would be the same as outside the enviroment
<reepca-laptop>dongcarl: if you have access to the same guix that you used to enter the environment, you could just "guix build <package>", right?
<dongcarl>laalf: Some of them aren't binaries
<laalf>dongcarl: well you get the idea with readlink -f
<reepca-laptop>it does bug me that I can't seem to find a general-purpose path-searching utility in bash
<dongcarl>bavier: You're saying determine the path outside the environment and pass it in to scripts?
<reepca-laptop>or maybe I just haven't looked hard enough
<bavier>dongcarl: or do reepca-laptop's `guix build foo` inside the environment, whatever works
<laalf>for xfce to lock/suspend you need to execute "xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/logind-handle-lid-switch -n -t bool -s true". this enables logind to handle the lid switch. shouldnt this be default? should i write an email about that?