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<TRS-80>good afternoon, fine people!
<TRS-80>so, is it normal for Guix to install tons of packages when you first try to install the hello program at completion of initial installation? :)
<opan>after a recent update my terminals all show empty squares instead of proper characters!
<TRS-80>rut row!
<opan>also my workspace numbers and window titles in awesome. some things look normal like the text in rofi
<opan>the issue happens in both termite and sakura terminal emulators, starting tmux doesn't change it either. I feel like it's probably a local issue. can't even see commands I'm typing
*opan uploaded an image: rightdesktop.png (9KB) < >
<opan>Hm. Icecat crashed after sending that message. Posting from phone now.
<nckx>opan: Have you run ‘fc-cache -f’ (and restarted your session)?
<opan>Good idea. I just rebooted but I will try that.
<opan>No luck with that. I'll reboot for good measure.
<TRS-80>btw, Guix OS looks pretty cool, and I had no idea about it before today! It was recommended way to install Next browser... but I think I will be checking it out soon!
<opan>Still all broken. My TTY shows things fine, it seems.
<TRS-80>this is like... installing a whole system... is this normal? all I wanted was "hello" :/
<TRS-80>or is this because I did not set locale yet?
<opan>TRS-80 did you do 'guix package -i hello'?
<TRS-80>opan: yes, exactly
<TRS-80>as it says to do at end of installation instructions
<opan>I'm not sure if that's normal behavior not.
<opan>nckx: any other ideas for things to try?
<TRS-80>this thing is still downloading and building packages... :/
<OriansJ>TRS-80: only if you don't allow substitutes
<OriansJ>otherwise it builds from root binaries everything
<TRS-80>can I C-c out of this safely?
<TRS-80>apparently so
<TRS-80>WTF, I'm so glad I've been waiting hours for this
<TRS-80>so much for sane default
<OriansJ>TRS-80: guix can be stopped at any time because it is a transactional system
<OriansJ>TRS-80: it is a source distribution first of all
<TRS-80>why did it install all that stuff?!
<TRS-80>and how can I get rid of it all now?
<OriansJ>it didn't install anything, only downloaded and built the pieces needed to build and then install the program desired
<OriansJ>guix gc will remove all of it
<TRS-80>to install "hello" program?!
<OriansJ>TRS-80: if you enable substitutes it will just download and install the hello binary
<TRS-80>this is ridiculous, all I wanted to do is install a supposedly "lightweight" browser... and here I am 3-4 hours later still messing with this
<OriansJ>TRS-80: did you enable substitutes?
<opan>TRS-80: guix is not like the other distros, but that's also what allows it to be so good
<opan>It might take a bit of time and effort to figure some stuff out, but I think it's worth it.
<opan>re: my square box issues, I've just rolled back a couple generations for now in my user profile
<TRS-80>opan: yes the features sound very cool, but this configuration... and I was just trying to install a browser, not a whole environment... I stumbled across Guix totally by accident... and now hours, on top of more hours earlier trying to install something else from source that didn't work either... so all day now and still nothing to show for it... I'm just very frustrated right now
<TRS-80>OriansJ: I cannot figure out how, still slogging through all the Installation and configuration steps
***catonano_ is now known as catonano
<TRS-80>oh wait I think it's doing something... maybe...
<TRS-80>guix package: error: build failed: substituter `substitute' died unexpectedly
<TRS-80>guix pull: error: Git error: SSL error: received early EOF
<OriansJ>TRS-80: you did find right?
<TRS-80>I am still working through this: which references this: and also talks about locales, and on and on and on and I have no idea which I am supposed to do first
<OriansJ>TRS-80: look at these steps
<OriansJ>that is a script which can be used to setup guix; notice it assumes you have 4 cores and don't want to enable substitutes but the command for it is commented out
<OriansJ>It also provides a step to tweak the systemd service configuration but you probably don't need to do anything
<OriansJ>does that help to make sense of it all TRS-80 ?
<TRS-80>yeah I am working through that, thank you OriansJ. Starting by deleting too many users I created for this little t60 :)
<TRS-80>cores + 2 = 4 XD
<OriansJ>TRS-80: some people prefer cores * 2 but on a core2duo; it results in the same number
*vagrantc thought guix initializes .guix-profile when first run
<OriansJ>vagrantc: possibly (it was written long ago) and I haven't gotten around to deleting that line
<OriansJ>I'm knee deep in the M2-Planet port to ARM
*vagrantc has been spending too much time trying to get the c201 to work
<vagrantc>i should probably follow up on the thread with my progress
<TRS-80>vagrantc: maybe the script does, but I was halfway through the manual instructions before I found reference to that :/
<TRS-80>OriansJ: I am at the step `guix refresh` in your script, but when I execute that I get an error about x.509 cert for
<OriansJ>well that is odd
<TRS-80>something must be up with my internet, I just also got error trying to install nscd
<TRS-80>doing apt-get update now
<vagrantc>i sporadically get issues with ssl certs with guix ... just earlier one of them was fixed by rebooting ... not even sure how that would fix anything
<vagrantc>maybe a partially migrated system profile?
<TRS-80>I tried to install nss-certs, and again it seems to be downloading a ton of unfelated packages? wft?
<TRS-80>oh wait it stopped
<OriansJ>TRS-80: some programs have dependencies that also need to be downloaded
<TRS-80>OriansJ: Yeah I thought that's what was happening with the "hello" program initially, but it never stopped... this downloaded like 10-15 things or so and then stopped
<TRS-80>I think Substitutions are working because I am installing glibc-locales and some are being built, and some downloaded...
<TRS-80>now it seems to be back to downloadaing a whole ton of completely unrelated packages.... wtf
<apteryx>transitive dependencies are sometimes suprising
<TRS-80>for a few fonts?!
<apteryx>fonts can be built from source, and if your substitutes are not available or working correctly, this can bring in the tools used to build the fonts and the whole chain of their dependencies
<apteryx>I think there's a way to check if substitutes are supposed to be available using `guix weather`
<apteryx>you can't query that command about packages directly on the command line, but you can use a manifest files which would list said packages.
<apteryx>it might be a simple matter such as trusting the substitute server. Are you using Guix System (formerly GuixSD) or Guix on top of a foreign distro?
<TRS-80>guix Guix on top of foreign distro. And I did truct the substitute server. And it did download some things, at some point, which is what the manual says to look for re: Substitutions.
<apteryx>which substitute server did you trust? does "ps aux | grep guix-daemon" show the substitute server in the --substitute-urls command line?
<TRS-80>I thought I trusted but the command you said to exucute there did not show anything about --substitute-urls
<TRS-80>although I am seeing now a lot of stuff like: substituting /gnu/store/ljig4ifn72ynzl3b06pmnwkxx80kd94m-xz-5.2.4... downloading from /gnu/store/ljig4ifn72ynzl3b06pmnwkxx80kd94m-xz-5.2.4... downloading from
<apteryx>oh, I guess substitutes *are* working then
<apteryx>ah, section 2.5 explains why; when substitute-urls is omitted, is used.
<apteryx>so maybe you were just unlucky and the substitutes were not yet built on
<apteryx>guix weather can be of some help to judge of the situation before running updates
<vagrantc>i've been experiencing "guix size" being faster than "guix weather", fwiw
<apteryx>yeah, guix weather takes some time to run. I haven't investigated what it is doing exactly so I don't know why.
<vagrantc>guix size tells you if it's not available quite quickly
<TRS-80>ok, so I just installed hello, without installing everything and the kitchen sink...
<vagrantc>things with large dependency chaikns will return more slowly if successful
<apteryx>oh, I didn't know we could use guix size for this purpose
<apteryx>it's probably equivalent in speed to using guix weather with a limited manifest?
<vagrantc>haven't gotten into manifests yet, though i hear they're the hot thing!
<TRS-80>so, if I am understanding this correctly, the reason my normal user is has to install all the same initial packages (fints, locale, etc.) all over again is because each user (including root?) have their own profiles?
<vagrantc>though reinstalling something already installed by another user should be very fast
<TRS-80>locale was
<vagrantc>unless you're running a more recent or older build of guix than the other users
<vagrantc>(though sometimes even that works)
<vagrantc>anyways, happy guixing
*vagrantc waves
<TRS-80>vagrantc: thanks :)
<TRS-80>and apteryx, OriansJ, thanks for all the help
<apteryx>TRS-80: you're welcome!
<lafrenierejm>How does one get the sha256 for a git-fetch source?
<lafrenierejm>That is, what file am I supposed to be computing the checksum of for a given URI and commit?
<rekado_>lafrenierejm: you can run “guix hash -rx .” in the directory git clone generated.
<nckx>opan: Sorry, I'd fallen asleep. 😒
<kmicu>Good, sleep is better.
*nckx is a sucker for loud storms outside. Mm.
<wednesday>Am I the only one that's getting a hash missmatch for
<wednesday>for blocks.txt
<wednesday>It is installed by the package ibus
<nckx>wednesday: Could you (debian)paste the full error message?
<wednesday> I also included the build log for ya
<wednesday>it's been happening for a few days, stopping me upgrading all my stuff
<nckx>wednesday: Yah, it's an unversioned file, updated in-place… all the bad things.
<nckx>I'll update it.
<wednesday>Awesome, how long do ya think that'll take till I can update again? hah
<nckx>I don't know, since there are some things that give me pause: the file's modification date is 30-Jul-2018 (that's… old) and Blocks.txt calls itself Blocks-12.0.0.txt implying that *someone* is versioning it properly and then not bothering to provide versioned URLs.
<nckx>So I'll take a look and not just push within the minute.
<wednesday>all good, was just curious
<nckx>15 mins? 😛
<wednesday>It's not urgent that I update now, but it's been a few days so I'm ready whenever ha
*nckx found a versioned URL \o/
<wednesday>good times
<nckx>wednesday: Give it a pull and a test.
<wednesday>nckx: I am doing it, I just use no substitutes so takes a while heh
<wednesday>nckx: Yup it seems to have gotten past blocks.txt fine this time, thank you
<TRS-80>I installed glibc-locales, but for some reason still getting error: `guile: warning: failed to install locale`
<TRS-80>is that anything to worry about?
<apteryx>TRS-80: did you also do the: export GUIX_LOCPATH=$HOME/.guix-profile/lib/locale
<apteryx>(and put this into your ~/.profile or other session init)
<TRS-80>I believe so, let me check
<nckx>wednesday: Cool! Now with the new URLs it shouldn't happen in future.
<TRS-80>apteryx: I did that, but it does not seem correct
<TRS-80>my ~/.guix-profile links to: .guix-profile -> /var/guix/profiles/per-user//guix-profile
<TRS-80>but that GUIX_LOCPATH gives a path of profile/lib/locale which doesn't match that and therefore doesn't make sense to me
<TRS-80>it seems my actual profile is in /var/guix/profiles/per-user/trs-80/, should I link to that?
<TRS-80>if so, instructions should be updated maybe? or am I not understanding something correctly?
<TRS-80>I think I see the problem
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<emacsen>civodul, Guix would reply but it's compiling
*emacsen wonders to take his analogy further and ask the question "Are these people on IRC really the people you think they are?"
<civodul>who knows!
<emacsen>civodul, to be safe we should reconstruct them from DNA
<OriansJ>emacsen: no one is who you think they are because the human mind is only capable of making cheap approximations of humans internally and thus who you think people are are just shadows of the true depth and complexity of the being with which you interact.
<OriansJ>Thus even if everyone was completely honest all the time; who people are will always be different than who you think they are. But we live in a word where lying is cheap and easy and we are on a medium where anyone can change their nick to anything they want
<OriansJ>So usernames are just the label we choose to give ourselves for a moment; hoping that the registered user doesn't opt to ghost us to get that label for themselves
<OriansJ>Nothing can stop a /nick
<OriansJ>So embrace the reality; that the label is for others but never a reflection of our true selves.
<emacsen>OriansJ, that's just what "they" would say
<OriansJ>emacsen: if makes it easier think of all of us as low grade Apocalypse Boxes (We contain knowledge you don't have but we also can lie at any time)
<nckx>mikadoZero: Thanks for the bug report! Note that bugs are listed by subject line in the Web interface and elsewhere, so having a good subject line is important.
<mikadoZero>nckx: Sorry. Just switched to mu4e and realized my mistake just after sending.
<efraim_>I'm on my phone right now, but is there a good way to have a keyword in a build system to include or exclude an input? Or should I be looking at some of the package-with-whatever transformations to make it happen
<nckx>mikadoZero: No problem. I changed it. Enjoy mu4e!
<mikadoZero>nckx: I am just starting to use mu4e but I am already enjoying it.
<mikadoZero>nckx: How did you change it. Did you use administrator powers?
<nckx>mu4e's not perfect but I love it all the same.
<nckx>mikadoZero: Nope. In fact, I think any rando can muck with our bug tracker.
<nckx>retitle ##### New subject line → control at debbugs·gnu·org
<nckx>Cheat sheet:
<mikadoZero>nckx: I guess that is a classic example of how something can be seen as a feature or bug based on perspective. But even if it is a bug it is nice it is documented.
<mikadoZero>nckx: Thanks for sharing the cheat sheet.
<mikadoZero>nckx: What do you dislike about mu4e?
<nckx>mikadoZero: Just small things. The UI freezes while sending mail (this is more of an emacs bug but still a regression from non-emacs clients), updating the message list can be racy/buggy sometimes (it shows the wrong folder first, then refreshes the right one), it can be a bit slow depending on your view settings (e.g. with include-related on, unreleased improvements have been made upstream), …
<nckx>It's still my favourite MUA so far.
*nckx doesn't believe they'll ever go back to a non-emacs one.
<mikadoZero>nckx: Thanks
<OriansJ>nckx: emacs async not helpful?
<nckx>OriansJ: Tell me more.
<nckx> ← this?
<OriansJ>nckx: the async package allows one to call asynchronous functions and process (can be installed with a simple M-x package-list-packages C-s async)
<OriansJ>nckx: correct
<OriansJ>it allows the slow background processes like smtp and git push to happen in the background while you continue to work
*civodul attempts to package LibreOffice translations
<nckx>OriansJ: I'm not 100% focussed, but this <> seems to suggest that I should use yapackage to avoid losing outgoing mail…
<nckx>‘smtpmail-queue-mail t’ is commented out in my .emacs with the note that ‘I once lost mail this way’. Hm. I'll give it another go.
<apteryx>I'm now managing my dotfiles using GNU Stow, and its great! Although, I'm wondering how to manage the secrets that are part of that such as my GPG/SSH keys. Is there a tool designed to help with managing secrets?
<apteryx>I could also just make two dotfiles repository, one public (which would be OK to publish), and one private.
<dustyweb>rekado_: civodul: did you see davexunit's "building guix deploy" email to the list?
<dustyweb>might want to look at it if you can
<nckx>The yapackage is just to toggle queuing automatically based on network upness. I'll definitely try out emacs-async. Thanks, OriansJ.
<lafrenierejm>rekado_: Thanks, I'll try that.
***efraim_ is now known as efraim
<mbakke>rekado: FYI, the scons update caused some ~450 rebuilds, including subversion.
<mbakke>I wonder if it's okay to sneak in a subversion security update before the next Hydra evaluation..
***nyaomin is now known as nyaomi
<civodul>dustyweb: not yet!
<civodul>dustyweb: just replied!
<quiliro>hello guix
<quiliro>is there a way to boot with the same usb 32 bit systems as well as 64 bit systems?
<efraim>I'm using rakudo-star for a list of perl6 modules so I can test my build system, turns out they bundle 51 libraries, I've only packaged 12 so far
<lafrenierejm>I cloned the guix repo to $GUIX_REPO and added a package.scm to gnu/packages. I would like to use that package from my /etc/config.scm, but doing so leaves me with an unbound variable error. How do I use the packages defined in $GUIX_REPO from my /etc/config.scm?
<nckx>lafrenierejm: cd $GUIX_REPO && guix environment guix [maybe some --ad-hoc packages] -- sh -c './configure --localstatedir=/var --sysconfdir=/etc && make -j`nproc` && ./pre-inst-env guix system reconfigure …' is an option.
*nckx forgot a sudo at the end.
<lafrenierejm>nckx: Thanks!
<quiliro>why does a machine freeze on booting with guixsd i686
<quiliro>it freezes after showing GuixSD logo
<quiliro>is there anything i can do?
<quiliro>i am sure it is i686 (32 bit) because i booted it on another machine and ran uname -a
<nckx>quiliro: Do you get a GRUB menu/command line?
<quiliro>nckx: YES
<lafrenierejm>`guix environment guix` from a clone of the guix repository is giving me a backtrace in ice-9/boot-9.scm and the following error: "In procedure %resolve-varaible: error: license:lppl1.1+: unbound variable"
<nckx>quiliro: You'll want to use a command like terminal_output do get rid of the graphical cruft and see more kernel/error messages. However, I forget which output there is besides gfxterm.
<nckx>lafrenierejm: What do you mean by ‘from’? That error message should appear anywhere, even if you cd ~ instead, right?
<quiliro>nckx: i can edit the grub boot command
<quiliro>nckx: what should i change?
<nckx>quiliro: Nah, just open a command line.
<nckx>Then try ‘terminal_output console’ or something.
<nckx>Maybe terminal_output prints the possibilities. Dunno. This is all just from memory.
<lafrenierejm>nckx: Indeed it does...
<lafrenierejm>Ah. The problem was caused by my running `guix environment` while inside an environment.
<quiliro>i get grub>
<quiliro>nckx: What now?
<nckx>quiliro: Explore. Learn.
<nckx>What does ‘terminal_output console‘ do, what does the kernel or GRUB print when you boot the menu item after changing it, etc.
<nckx>These are all things only you can do.
<quiliro>nckx: i never understood grub command line....
<quiliro>will read
<nckx>Neither did I, and I was 13 and had no Internet. :-p
<lafrenierejm>`./configure` from the root of a guix clone while inside a guix environment is failing with "error: Guile-Gcrypt could not be found; please install it." I'm assuming there's a package I should `--ad-hoc` install?
<quiliro>gives .... error: you need to lead the kernel first.
<nckx>lafrenierejm: Yep! guile-grypt and maybe guile-json and maybe some others.
<nckx>quiliro: Yes.
<nckx>You have to tell GRUB what to boot.
<nckx>Just change the terminal output (the goal is to get a text console, so get rid of the fancy graphics) and then go back to the menu and boot the Guix … entry.
*nckx can't spin up VMs here.
<quiliro>nckx: there are no fancy graphics on the grub boot usb
<nckx><quiliro> it freezes after showing GuixSD logo
<quiliro>i understand
<quiliro>nckx: but where should i investigate?
<nckx>If you're talking about a separate ‘grub boot usb’ like Super GRUB 2 Disk or so
<nckx>then you can load the Guix grub.cfg with configfile.
<quiliro>guixsd usb
<lafrenierejm>nckx: guile-gcrypt is an unknown package. `guix package -s gcrypt` doesn't (appear to) reveal any Guile-related packages?
<nckx>quiliro: So what kind of logo are you talking about?
<rekado_>mbakke: oh no! I didn’t expect that. Sorry.
<quiliro>guixsd logo
*nckx calls *any* graphics fancy, that is true 😃
<nckx>lafrenierejm: $ guix package -A guile-gcrypt → guile-gcrypt 0.1.0 out gnu/packages/gnupg.scm:443:2
<nckx>Are you on a (very) old version of Guix?
<quiliro>cannot find the grub.cfg file....not even on boot
<quiliro>found it
<nckx>quiliro: No /boot/grub/grub.cfg?
<nckx>quiliro: The version question was for lafrenierejm, sorry for the confusion.
<quiliro>after the command you told me, the system booted and hung on the guixsd logo
<nckx>Sounds like graphics are still enabled.
<nckx>And I can't give you the exact command to disable them.
*quiliro is duckduckgoing
*nckx is building a VM image that will take an hour to boot.
<nckx>If it boots.
<quiliro>nckx: why?
<nckx>Because my laptop is teh suck.
<quiliro>maybe acpi=off will let me boot
<quiliro>nckx: why not offload?
<nckx>quiliro: Build farm's down.
<quiliro>build your own farm! haha
<quiliro>i would like to do that
<nckx>our VMs probably don't use GRUB.
<nckx>Away, jet engine noise, away.
<nly>Too bad there is no gnu emoji, I found a deer 🦌
<nckx>nly: I use a buffalo to approximate.
<nckx>Unicode 11 did add 🄯 (that's copyleft for those of you who can't see it).
*nckx is going to petition for a gnu.
<nckx>Bye o/
<nly>good night o/
<civodul>mbakke: i see where the "guix build inkscape" issue comes from, not sure yet how to fix it
<mbakke>civodul: What's the scoop? :)
<civodul>mbakke: well nothing! it's just a top-level reference to 'inkscape' in gnome.scm
<civodul>and i'm not sure how to avoid it (or delay it)
<quiliro>i cannot get a 32 bit machine to boot with guixsd i686
<quiliro>it just hangs at the guixsd logo
<quiliro>it will not boot with trisquel or even ubuntu mini for 32 bits
<quiliro>i wanted to see if it was a nonfree issue
<civodul>mbakke: i found any easy fix after all, which is to invoke inkscape in a phase rather than in the snippet
<civodul>sometimes talking about issues is a first step to address them :-)
<ArneBab>how can I get /gnu/store/rvv5rw5gcrpmbgnvhb60f7czk0m0h2qp-gcc-7.4.0-lib/lib/ in ~/.guix-profile/lib?
<ArneBab>I did not find the package this belongs to
<civodul>ArneBab: try "guix package -i gcc-toolchain:lib"
<ArneBab>civodul: thank you!
<ArneBab>civodul: guix package: error: package `gcc-toolchain@8.3.0' lacks output `lib'
<civodul>ArneBab: oh it's actually in gcc:lib, but you shouldn't install it in your profile
<ArneBab>civodul: why? Firefox needs it.
<civodul>i mean gnu-build-system provides it as an implicit input
<rekado_>nckx: I no longer see your messages on the mailing list. I only see them in quotes by other people.
<rekado_>(and my subscriptions have been disabled due to bounces again)
<nckx>rekado_: I had my suspicions :-(
<ArneBab>civodul: firefox binary as downloaded from
<nckx>rekado_: I've even (temporarily…) downgraded my p=reject DMARC policy, which I'd sworn not to do. I really don't know what more I can do at this point.
<rekado_>nckx: no worries! This is a problem with the mailing lists, no?
<nckx>I have been shadowbanned by the GNU.
<nckx>I get no feedback.
<ArneBab>is that possible? Doesn’t that rather mean, people don’t have time?
*nckx will troll through my mail server logs.
<nckx>ArneBab: You talkin' to me?
<nckx>I wasn't talking about the people ;-)
<nckx>Just that I don't receive errors or bounces or DSNs or whatever.
<ArneBab>ah :-)
<rekado_>nckx: let me know if there’s something we can do to remove that technical obstacle, e.g. by talking to GNU sysadmins or by changing settings.
<civodul>that situation is annoying, indeed
<civodul>though if you're unsubscribed rekado_, no wonder you don't see nckx' messages ;-)
<nckx>rekado_: Of course. I consider myself pretty competent at postmastering now, if I may say so, and I don't see what the problem could be. It's hard to guess without errors…
<nckx>There's not even a policy difference between my regular and loud-gnu-list-protest domains at this point. But oh well.
<rekado_>civodul: I keep resubscribing, of course :)
<rekado_>I’m bound to lose some messages, but it’s been a while since I saw one of nckx’s messages coming through.
<nckx>Thanks for letting me know.
<nckx>No SMTP rejections in my logs at all.
<nckx>I'm going to update nginx to the current mainline version, as opposed to ‘stable’, since mainline is what upstream actually recommends for use in production. Sound good?