<atw>raghavgururajan: because guix puts just about everything into /gnu/store, so e.g. Guix has a GRUB entry like /gnu/store...linux... and Debian has a GRUB entry like /boot/...vmlinuz. Largely, the systems should not conflict
<atw>thanks janneke :) I would offer to write this up, but (1) I would have to go through it again and properly document and (2) to what extent should this sort of thing be encouraged?
<raghavgururajan>@atw. But what about files in /etc. Won't they conflict? Since most files in /etc have similar names across distros, guixsd and debain overwrite each other's setting?
<atw>raghavgururajan: good point, that was exactly the problem I was running into before! on boot, guixsd was populating /etc with the procedure activate-etc. I had to step in and rename or delete things like /etc/ssl
<kmicu>raghavgururajan: “However, most services' principal functions are communicating or publishing information; they are nothing like running any program yourself, so they are not SaaSS.”
<raghavgururajan>@rekado So GuixSD, via gnome-online-accounts, giving a way for SaaSS to harm GuixSD users. Because, by principle, free software should neither contain non-free program nor endorse use of non-free program (such as SaaSS).
<olivuser>Hej fellas. Does it make sense to install guixsd on an ssd and have data stored on a separate sata drive (as in "mounted to /home") - that is to save money since larger ssd drives are more expensive and I already have a sata drive.
<raghavgururajan>@kmicu Users have to connect to facebook and google apps/program which are non-free. This harm the users.
<roptat>raghavgururajan, and you connect to nextcloud which is saass ;)
<raghavgururajan>Quoting from the article: "There is one case where a service is directly comparable to a program: when using the service is equivalent to having a copy of a hypothetical program and running it yourself. In this case, we call it Software as a Service (SaaS), or Service as a Software Substitute (SaaSS — this term explains more clearly what the issue is), and such a service is always a bad thing."
<kmicu>raghavgururajan: no proprietary code is executed on your computer. That’s explained in the linkend article. You are not endorsed to intall any proprietary program.
<kmicu>olivuser: sure, no need to keep everything on one disk.
<roptat>but I guess we should not try to solve that alone, what do other FSDG distros do?
<raghavgururajan>""If some of them are nonfree, that usually doesn't directly affect users of the service. They are not running those programs; the service operator is running them. In a special situation, these programs can indirectly affect the users of the service: if the service holds private information, users might be concerned that nonfree programs on the server might have back doors allowing someone else to see their data. In effect, non
<raghavgururajan>@roptat, well, at least I know that there are no direct privacy issues. Such as facebook and google program have built-in codes to invade user privacy.
<kmicu>rag Please keep in mind we are not stating that unethical services are not an issue in general only that it is not a free software issue.
<raghavgururajan>1) A free software should neither use nor allow to use a non-free software via it's own.
<raghavgururajan>2) Here, gnome-online-accounts, a supposedly free program, is allowing a user to use a non-free program (fb, gl etc). In this case, the non-free program happens to run remotely. Therefore, a supposedly free program is allowing use of a non-free program.
<rekado>raghavgururajan: google is not a non-free program. It’s a service that might even be built on free software.
<olivuser>But then I guess it speeds up build processes considerably, right?
<OriansJ>olivuser: if you want max build speed, RAM is always faster than SSD (more bandwidth and lower latency)
<OriansJ>and it depends entirely on the program being built as very few builds are disk constrained
<pkill-9[m]>if i were to mount a tmpfs over my /tmp directory, would a swapfile be just as fast as the normal /tmp directory on disk if the tmpfs fills up?
<OriansJ>pkill-9[m]: well effectively Linux will swap chunks of tmpfs to disk to prevent out of memory situations but generally if you are not facing memory exhustion consistently it will be faster. The only concern is tmpfs will be cleared on poweroff/reboot/shutdown and some programs put data there instead of the XDG standard location.
<OriansJ>The big performance impact with tmpfs is that it uses memory that the kernel could use to cache data it predicts you will need shortly but like all predictors; they can be less effective than proper understanding of what data is essential for the performance critical sections of your workload.
<OriansJ>If memory exhustion is a concern and you are not sure; just default to disk and let Linux deal with guessing what data needs to be cached in RAM for optimal performance. Or if you are running off a $5 MicroSD card with less than 1K write cycles; Mapping /tmp to tmpfs and disable swap entirely will extend your system lifetime considerably. (Swapfiles/Swap Partitions do more damage to SSD lifetimes than anything else)
<raghavgururajan>kmicu: Woah! That article is so good. I am still understanding it. Thanks for the info.
<OriansJ>But given extremely memory constrained environments like RaspberryPIs; I suggest getting a Seperate USB drive to use for Swap. Also take the time to know the specs of your storage devices (Bandwidth, Latency, Capacity, Lifetime constraints [write/read cycle limits] and generally recognized failure modes)
<ng0>hey, how do you deal with makeinfo in guix itself? do you just assume a certain version (since I found no version check) or...? I'm trying to decide what's the best way to integrate for gnunet, version checking was a mistake I found
<mikadozero>I have guixsd installed, have installed programs using config.scm and been reading the manual. Does guixsd have a way to manage configuration files? Can it manage my emacs configuration for example?
<OriansJ>mikadozero: well it does make it easy to install git and use variables like hostname in your configuration files
<OriansJ>Provided your emacs configuration is something you take the time to specify in a configuration file(s) then yes it can ensure that configuration when applied
<OriansJ>Think of Guix as an extension to the guile programming language and anything you can do in a general purpose programming language can be done with Guix
<mikadozero>OriansJ: Is there a section in the manual that covers that. I would like to put it into practice on my system.
<mikadozero>OriansJ: I am new to guile how would it be used in guixsd for managing configuration files? Is there documentation I can look at?
<OriansJ>mikadozero: Essentially Configuation files would just be a package you install
<OriansJ>Generally start with straight Guix and you might find something annoying and if you want you can easily make a function in Guile for Guix to solve that problem for yourself and you might have something we all could use.
<kmicu>mikadozero: that use case is not supported yet.
<efraim>I built guix on PowerPC (32 bit), still have to test build to hello
<kmicu>mikadozero: You can manage dotfiles on your own but there are no convienient tools like in case of NixOS (yet).
<OriansJ>atw: yep, we already have the Mescc up part done and the M2-Planet and below parts done; we just need to finish that connection and Guix instantly becomes the world's easiest to bootstrap Operating system (Take that DOS)
<kmicu>OriansJ: that’s why we should not scare newcomers with phrases like ‘it’s only zygohistomorphic prepromorphisms, that’s a trivial recursion’ or ‘just execute this 24 lines or magic Guile invocations; you see how easy is that’.
<OriansJ>kmicu: probably why I am usually banished to #bootstrappable for those who think Hex-monitors are cool
<Elon_Satoshi>How do I monitor a bzip2 compressed log live? as in `tail -f /var/log/guix/drvs/57/*-mariadb-10.1.37.drv` if it was uncompressed
<roptat>Looks like I finally managed to install guixsd on the overdrive!
<vagrantc>roptat: i found i had to explicitly add some modules to the initrd for sata to work