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<kristofer>I am somewhat confused about the conventional way to define the fqdn for my machine. Is the host-name field of the operating-system declaration meant to also be the fqdn? I have been trying to have exim deduce the primary_hostname automatically, but it always resolves my fqdn as localhost
<kristofer>forgive my ignorance ha. I didn't have a hosts-file defined
<EternalZenith>I recently switched to NixOS, which was far easier than I expected it would have been, but the more I read about, GuixSD the more I want to switch over here
<EternalZenith>The only thing that is holding me back right now is package availability; how hard is it to use packages from NixOS or write a new package definition based on something from Nix or the AUR?
<EternalZenith>Pardon me if this isn't the place to ask questions such as this.
<atw>EternalZenith: this is a fine place! Unfortunately I can't give an authoritative answer to your question and I'm not sure how many other people are awake
<EternalZenith>What time zones are most people here in? Western Europe?
<EternalZenith>Also, is there anywhere else where Guix is discussed aside from here and the mailing list? The subreddit seems largely dead.
<atw>If I were you I'd ask again in the European day, yes ☺ I can give you a little information, though. There does exist a Nix importer (see, but I haven't personally used it. I was going to ask, is there something in particular that you don't see packaged that you'd want?
<atw>Here, and there are a few mailing lists for different purposes
<EternalZenith>There aren't any particular packages I see right now that I'd need aside from /the ones that are not to be discussed/, but I've found it hard to switch away from Arch after having easy access to the AUR for 4/5 of my time using Linux.
<atw>it's possible to scratch your own itch:
<EternalZenith>guix import seems really, really cool
<kristofer>if you're going to build some packages I find the guix environment to be super duper
<EternalZenith>I wonder if it'd be possible to extend guix import to work with AUR packages in some way
<atw>guix environment is a killer feature, I use --ad-hoc for non-development work often. I have used the haskell importer; it works well
<EternalZenith>How much competency with Guile is necessary to do more than basic system configuration?
<EternalZenith>I worked my way through the first 1.5 chapters of SICP before the schoolyear started and I became too busy to do much more
<EternalZenith>I really want to dig deeper into lisps
<atw>EternalZenith: I did not find system config too hard, but I've done some other lisp stuff. seems like a good resource, as well as the Guile manual
<EternalZenith>Thanks, that looks nicely concise for learning the scheme way of things.
<`ani`>I want to make a small list of packages that I need and see which are missing in GuixSD.
<g_bor>hello guix!
<georges-duperon>g_bor: hi!
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<roptat>hi guix!
<tune>I'm getting an error trying to guix pull
<tune>guix pull: error: Git error: could not open '/home/brad/.cache/guix/pull/pjmkglp4t7znuugeurpurzikxq3tnlaywmisyr27shj7apsnalwq/.git/logs/refs/remotes/origin/wip-rust' for writing: Permission denied
<tune>I just did a systemwide pull/reconfigure fine, but my user pull gives an error
<tune>I hadn't made any changes, was just hoping to update.
<roptat>tune: who owns /home/brad/.cache/guix{,/pull}?
<tune>the user and group match the one I'm running it from
<tune>actually, one moment, I just checked perms of the .cache/guix folder
<tune>interesting, root owns wip-rust specifically if I go all the way deep
<tune>if it's related to the language, I did have rust installed as a system package, but it was failing to update so I just removed it a few days ago
<tune>should I delete the wip-rust file?
<roptat>mh... I'd remove ~/.cache/guix entirely
<roptat>it'll take some time to download everything back, but it feels safer
<roptat>that removing something under a .git directory ;)
<tune>I'm not really a fan of that idea, I think it could take a whole day to compile some of the stuff, like icecat...
<roptat>that cache is not your local package set
<tune>hm okay
<roptat>actually you can probably delete ~/.cache/guix/pull
<roptat>"download everything" meant "download the source repository"
<roptat>that's what guix pull uses to build a new guix
<civodul>tune: looks like root wrote to the user's ~/.cache/guix
<roptat>tune: you did run "sudo guix pull" at some point, right?
<tune>Almost every day, yeah.
<civodul>though "sudo guix pull" is supposed to write to "~root/.cache", otherwise it's a bug
<tune>I have an alias for sudo -E guix pull... etc. and then one for a regular pull + installing from manifest file
<roptat>sudo -E env | grep HOME gives my user's home directory
<efraim>sneek: botsnack
<nckx>What's the convention when A #includes <B.h> which #includes <C.h>? Add C as propagated-input of B (...ew, but that's how we handle .pc requirements, which are similar), or B as input of A (...meh)?
<nckx>...s/.pc requirements/pkg-config/; not something with which to frighten Linux kernel devs.
<divansantana> From Vimperator to Tridactyl . Useful for the recent icecat update.
<nckx>*or C as input of A.
***rekado_ is now known as rekado
<rekado>Hi Guix!
<rekado>I’m having problems with channels.
<rekado>one of my channels uses (guix git-download)
<rekado>while resolving this Guix crashes saying “no code for module (git)”
<rekado>I’d really like to express channel dependencies. Then I could say that my channel really just depends on Guix and its dependencies, or that a channel depends on another channel.
<civodul>rekado: i think the (git) issue was fixed by 3c0e16391ed9a3e3e4611b940fb393c5f2ecea63
<civodul>not so nicely though
<civodul>re channel dependencies, i agree it'd be nice
<efraim>What happens if we redefine functions or build systems? Maybe it needs some namespacing?
<civodul>efraim: this question is valid for channels in general, right?
<civodul>the answer so far is that you can't do this because Guix modules take precedence
<rekado>civodul: I ran “guix pull” moments ago but got that crash anyway.
<rekado>civodul: do I need to upgrade (without channels) to that Guix version first?
<rekado>is commit 116af86f14f7789831d79815d5b4532afa82058c really correct? I think adding CURLOPT_CAPATH to Octave’s native-search-paths is not the right thing to do here.
<runejuhl>oh, awesome with a fix for Octave, saves me from having to do it myself -- thanks a bunch Kei!
<g_bor>hello guix!
<civodul>rekado: yes you first need to upgrade without channels; it's a defect
<civodul>rekado: re CURLOPT_CAPATH, there was a long discussion ;-), where it turned out that Octave itself does getenv("CURLOPT_CAPATH")
<civodul>so i think it's ok
<rekado>(I wonder if I really do receive all emails)
<rekado>can’t find that discussion in my mailbox. Hmm.
<rekado>quick status update on yesterday I didn’t manage to mount the external storage in GRUB. It simply didn’t appear at all.
<rekado>it was only detected later while booting linux.
<mbakke>rekado: I suppose GRUB or your firmware lacks a driver for the storage?
<g_bor>I have a test failure form a checkout yesterday, it's gexp->derivation, store-copy, and one more in gexp.
<g_bor>Anyone else noticed that?
<rekado>mbakke: thanks for the link! Looks like I got unsubscribed from guix-patches a while ago…
<rekado>mbakke: it seems so. I don’t know about firmware (of what component?) lacking a driver.
<rekado>I also wasn’t able to find information on what GRUB module would provide support for the HBA.
<g_bor>sneek: botsnack!
<g_bor>roptat: istm that the missing error message was some stale cache issue,after a make check I can see the error message.
<roptat>g_bor: ok
<`ani`>I want to make a quick check with GuixSD packages to be safe that my required software is available.
<roptat>guix package has a --dry-run switch
<`ani`>guix package: error: build failed: the group `guixbuild' specified in `build-users-group' does not exist
<rekado>`ani`: you need to follow the installation instructions.
<rekado>the group that should be used must be created by you during initial setup.
<rekado>the manual explains this.
<rekado>`ani`: you can also use the installer script to have this all set up for you, though.
<roptat>`ani`: more precisely, step 4 in
<roptat>that is
<`ani`>do I "just type that in"?
<roptat>as root yes (removing #)
<`ani`>wow. great, man.
<rekado>huh, RHEL7 applies 260(!) patches to GRUB.
<rekado>this includes “0130-May-as-well-try-it.patch”
<jonsger>rekado: I guess thats kind of standard in that business. SLES12 has over 200
<demotri>I can no longer "make" my guix checkout: gzip: unbound variable.
<demotri>Full stacktrace here:
<ng0>"May as well try it" heh :D
<ng0>efraim: build-system can be included from whereever on the path
<ng0>that's how I prototype and dogfeed nim-build-system at the moment
<rekado>demotri: do you still get this after “make clean-go” and running “./configure …”?
<demotri>rekado: That's how it began...
<jonsger>could some run "guix system docker-image gnu/system/examples/docker-image.tmpl" with current guix and test if the resulting tar.gz is valid?
***aminb_ is now known as aminb
<rekado>demotri: in what environment do you do this?
<demotri>rekado: guix environement guix --ad-hoc <tons of goodies here>
<demotri>rekado: I'm also trying to clean clone the repository and try it again.
<`ani`>how do I execute the installation script?
<`ani`>where is it?
<civodul>rekado: can we add wip-rust on berlin?
<rekado>civodul: sure!
<rekado>civodul: I keep forgetting how to add specifications to the database… :(
<`ani`>rekado: what is that supposed to be?
<rekado>`ani`: it’s a URL through which you can obtain the installer script.
<rekado>I just put it there for convenience.
<rekado>you can also get it as part of the Guix source code, in etc/
<civodul>rekado: i've just done it
<civodul>it's quite involved nowadays :-)
<civodul>there's the Inputs table in addition to Specification
<civodul>not 100% sure i got it right
<civodul>feedback needed for the UI!
*rekado looks at wip-ui
*rekado uselessly wasted a day on visa applications and travel scheduling :-/
<`ani`>ls /etc/guix*
<`ani`>zsh: no matches found: /etc/guix*
<`ani`>obviously it's missing in the Parabola package of guix.
<demotri>rekado: With a clean clone, it worked. Will have to really cleanup my worktree somehow. Thanks
<civodul>rekado: uh, i sympathize :-/
<_tibbe>Hi, I cannot build guix for a while now because I don't have guile-gcrypt installed and `guix environment guix` does not install it. Is there a fix for this?
<rekado>`ani`: I wrote that it’s part of the Guix *source code*. When you unpack the source tarball you’ll find the file in the subdirectory “etc”. Or you can download it from
<`ani`>rekado: that link gives me a BIN file to download though.
<civodul>_tibbe: you can run "guix environment guix --ad-hoc guile-gcrypt"
<civodul>_tibbe: if that fails saying guile-gcrypt is not found, then you'll have to run 'guix pull' first
<rekado>`ani`: it is a plain text script. You can see for yourself with wget -qO-
<ivegotasthma>is it possible to build everything from source with guix?
<rekado>ivegotasthma: yes.
<pkill9>yes ivegotasthma, by passing the --no-substitutes flag
<rekado>ivegotasthma: that’s exactly what the build farms do that provide binaries for those who don’t want to build everything from source.
<roptat>`ani`: if you're already using the parabola package for guix, why bother using the installation script?
<`ani`>roptat: please.
<`ani`>you said I should run the script because I needed the group.
<`ani`>it wasn't me who said it.
<roptat>ah, that was without context
<roptat>it's better for you to run the few commands that add the build group and users
<`ani`>yeah that's like a book, only a book.
<roptat>then report the lack of these users to your distro or whoever provided you the guix package
<roptat>(obviously they are not base system users, but they should be added when the package is installed)
<roptat>ok, need to go, I'll be back in an hour or so
<_tibbe>civodul: That is awkward... I have pulled yesterday and it still does not work for me. I'll try again.
<civodul>_tibbe: make sure you're using the just-pulled 'guix' command (check $PATH and run "hash -r" in Bash)
<_tibbe>civodul: My path was messed up. Bash found the guix in my profile and not my config. Thank you :)
<taylan>does guix support passwordless login for user accounts?
<ng0>is whoever's doing the gitolite service around? what's the status on it?
<taylan>ng0: do you know what I need to set in the system config to make a user passwordless?
<ng0>okay, I think I'll send a message on the list. I want the gitolite service for taler
<kristofer>taylan: a user is not assigned a password at installation. admittedly, I have never tried to authenticate as anyone other than root without a password
<taylan>ah ok, I just ran 'sudo passwd -d taylan' and it seems to work (on tty login at least, will test on graphical login in a bit)
<ng0>taylan: see the documentation for the definition of users
<ng0>hm. there was something about it.. not #f
<ng0>i can't help right now, busy elsewhere
<taylan>yeah, I checked but could only see #f. no probs, thanks :)
<ng0>have you tried an empty string? I know I know how it is done, but can't recall how right now :/
<partj>hey, is there a guixsd equivalent to NIXOS_LUSTRATE? i would like to install guixsd on top of my distro, but can't seem to find any docs about that
<roptat>you can install guix the package manager on top of your distro
<roptat>then you can run guix system init and that should be enough to install guixsd
<NoobsE>Hi, can u help me plz? How can i install on guixsd? There is no /lib/modules folder, ~/.guix-profile/lib also not suitable, but i need this wifi driver >_<
<partj>but what about the old root? what happens to that? does it get removed or will it only be overwritten by guix but keeping the rest of the junk?
<kristofer>partj: guix primarily lives in /gnu/store and builds a symlink profile for the current environment. the host distro will still exist
<partj>what about /etc for example? i don't want to pollute my future distro too much
<kristofer>partj: you will want a binary installation of guix rather than guixsd
<kristofer>you could also run guixsd in a vm on the host machine to avoid 'pollution'
<ng0>where did shpchp go in 4.18? > kernel module not found "shpchp" "/gnu/store/5a5fl0c4i2r257gani4aa41wb0xcqnyl-linux-libre-4.18.9/lib/modules"
<pkill9>NoobsE: you have to use nonfree linux
<ng0>if no one knows it i'll dig into it, but asking is free :)
<partj>kristofer: but i do want to replace my distro with guixsd though, that's the point. nixos has a feature for exactly that, by installing it from another distro
<pkill9>NoobsE: you have to put this in as the kernel, which means you need to compile the kernel:
<NoobsE>@pkill9: why recompile? It's may be plugged as modeles
<kristofer>partj: with some clever partitioning I'm sure you're capable of a clean instsall from a host distro. good luck
<pkill9>for two reasons: the guix package definition for the kernel doesn't allow for plugging in linux modules I don't think, and two, it uses linux-libre which patches linux to stop it searching for non-free firmware, which is what rtlwifi is i think
<NoobsE>See to ng0 messages - ...linux-libre-4.18/lib/modules - that what i need, but it's on gnu/store, i can't write there
<ng0>compiled modules are not yet supported.
<ng0>non-compiled modules are easy once you figure it out
<ng0>unfortunately I can't talk about the non-compiled here, because it's just the blobs from linux-firmware.
<ng0>and pkill9, don't like to such modules here.
<ng0>i don't know how the others interprete the topic though..
<rockandska>Hi there
<ng0>okay, progress on shpchp.. do we compile this in? as it changed from explicit module to compile-in
<rockandska>i try to use the manifest file generated by my profile but always have the error "Wrong number of arguments"
<rockandska>did i misundertanding something ?
<NoobsE>Checkout manifest structure in 'info guix', there is you can find examples
<NoobsE>I use (specifications->manifest ..)
<rockandska>NoobsE: i will take a look, but why the manifest file generated by "guix profile" is not usable as is with "guix profile" or "guix pack", is it normal ?
<NoobsE>I dont know, i just a asker, as you:)
<ng0>so shpchp is not in $out/lib/modules/modules.builtin
*samplet wipes sweat from brow after submitting major Haskell update.
<rockandska>NoobsE: i think i've found my answer and the "manifest" can be disturbing if not the same signification depending the case...
<rockandska>but despite what ludovic said at that time, i didn't seen it implented :/
<mckinley>I believe it's possible to share packages between nix and guix, is that right? Does anyone here know how to go about installing a package from nix from guixSD?
<ng0>it's not trivial in some cases and you will have to get the daemon running by hand with some lines of scripts or your own service
<rekado>samplet: awesome! Thank you!
<rekado>ng0: that kernel module is no longer part of Linux.
<rekado>ng0: you can tell Guix to ignore this. Or you can use the LTS kernel.
<samplet>rekado: I hope it’s okay. Like I said, let me know if I can make anything easier for you.
<jabranham>while we're on kernel modules, iwlwifi isn't included in linux-libre, right?
<g_bor_>hello rekado!
<ng0>i juts reported a bug about this
<g_bor_>Any luck with the grub issue on berlin?
<ng0>i did not set this up with this module. if we really need it, do you know of a replacement?
<rekado>ng0: also about “compiled kernel modules” being “not supported”: you *can* build more kernel modules and load them. I don’t know what you mean by “not supported”.
<rekado>g_bor: sadly no.
<ng0>rekado: as soon as you require hte kernel source of the kernel you are running right now, it won't work without additional lines of code in the linux package, as discussed a while back on one of the mailinglists
<mckinley>jabranham: no, iwlwifi isn't included in linux-libre
<g_bor_>rekado: can we get some more information about what is used there, and what were you trying to achieve exactly?
<g_bor_>only thing I know, is that there is some network storage, and grub should see a volume there.
<g_bor_>is that correct?
<jabranham>mckinley: thanks. I guess it has binary blobs somewhere. The driver itself is GPL AFAICT. Contemplating switching my laptop to guixsd but that driver is gonna be an issue :-(
<mckinley>ng0: ah, I see. Do you know of a good write-up on the process? Or if you have the time, to detail the process of how you obtained firefox from the nix archives (I believe I saw you mention this before)?
<rekado>g_bor_: it’s a server with an internal RAID controller and two HBA PCI cards.
<rekado>the HBAs are redundantly connected to an external storage array.
<ng0>I don't really want to share it unless I know it is okay in guix. So far I think having this kind of support for Nix in Guix is out of scope.
<ng0>of course if you want an nix-service or juts a simple shell script and I am told that it is okay within guix, I will share it.
<rekado>g_bor: when booting Linux the external storage is available via /dev/sdb and /dev/sdc, one node for each of the HBAs.
<rekado>g_bor: unfortunately, that’s not what I see in GRUB.
<jabranham>perhaps I'll just rip the nonfree wifi card out and replace it with one that works with linux-libre.
<mckinley>jabranham: depending on your appetite for building packages locally, it's possible to compile the kernel yourself and add in the module manually; I do this for brcmfmac
<rekado>g_bor: in GRUB all I see is the disk via the internal RAID controller.
<jabranham>mckinley: that's what I just did but the compile time is... not great
<jabranham>(in a VM anyway)
<ng0>mckinley: the process is, for now I have my own nix package + a I start on demand, but I'm working towards less experimental nix support.
<rekado>g_bor: I want to have /gnu/store on the external storage because it is much larger, but since the kernel is in /gnu/store it needs to be available before Linux has booted.
<g_bor_>rekado: how is grub configured there?
<rekado>g_bor: I can’t get support from Dell because we aren’t using GRUB from RHEL.
<rekado>g_bor: we use GuixSD on that server.
<rekado>(that’s why I looked at the GRUB sources as they are used on RHEL today)
<rekado>g_bor: A way around this might be to copy whatever is needed for booting to the local disk, and modify the boot process to bind-mount /gnu/store from the external disk as soon as it becomes available and before any other service has been started.
<rekado>but that’s not currently supported by “guix system”, obviously
*rekado is very happy about the changes in wip-ui
<g_bor_>rekado: most probably we ave a similar setup here, and it is not yet in the server room. I guess I can give it a try to reproduce in my office.
<mckinley>jabranham: ah... yes, it is a little unpleasant. I don't know the difficulty of setting up a hydra instance, but it's been in the back of my mind how useful it would be for some of the 'extra' packages (chromium in particular, which I can't seem to get a successful build out of)
<rekado>g_bor: do you have a Dell server with Dell HBAs?
<g_bor_>rekado: also, is there any problem with moving off everything to the storage, and for example iscsi boot from there?
<rekado>g_bor: you can test this by entering the console in GRUB and typing “ls”; this should show you more than just (hd0), but in my case it doesn’t.
<rekado>I haven’t tried iscsi booting from the external storage.
<rekado>actually, the goal was to set up multipath access
<g_bor_>rekado: I guess so, but haven't had the chance to have a look yet, they've just arrived, and I'm not immediately responsible for this aquisition.
<rekado>I see.
<rekado>we only have one other system like this and it’s in production (it’s a file server)
<rekado>so I can’t just play with it.
<rekado>I also can’t really do that with, because that would make the build farm unavailable.
<g_bor_>I guess I will have at least a week to play with these, so if they are similar enough I might have a good idea...
<rekado>that would be great
<g_bor_>we intend to use debian on them, and on of them has already an os installed.
<g_bor_>I will have a look at that tomorrow.
<g_bor_>good night
<jonsger>rekado: Dell Server with Dell HBA, which is something for SAS. is this correct?
<jonsger>rekado: I could have a look at work too. We tend to have a lot of Dell hardware around...