IRC channel logs


back to list of logs

<Copenhagen_Bram>janneke: 'people' is still speciesist
<cbaines>Someone packaged Lollypop, the Gnome music player :D
<nckx>s/people/guix/, then.
<cbaines>Now that git annex is also packaged, and I managed to remember/guess the passphrase for my media partition, I've finally got around to copying music to my laptop :)
<Copenhagen_Bram>that's discrimination based on operating system preference
<cbaines>We're in the guix channel Copenhagen_Bram... this is the place
<Copenhagen_Bram>hi homo sapiens who use guix
<cbaines>Hello Copenhagen_Bram
<Copenhagen_Bram>at last i've found an acceptable term for you guys
<cbaines>Don't start again :P
<Copenhagen_Bram>yes homo sapien
<Copenhagen_Bram>whoo... so i finally got guix to create a disk image (i still had to specify -no-build-hook) and dd'd it onto a usb drive. Now I must wait until my internet is fast and then finally install guixSD :)
<Copenhagen_Bram>and encrypt my hard drive
<rekado>Copenhagen_Bram: Please use inclusive language without ridicule or drawing needless attention to it. This is not hard.
<rekado>ACTION –> zzZZ
<Copenhagen_Bram>oh no, i didn't know you were serious... I'm sorry. Where do I find the rules for this chat?
<OriansJ`>Copenhagen_Bram: I'll discriminate against distros if I want, atleast they don't have feelings
<cbaines>There is a code of conduct document in the Guix repository that applies
<OriansJ`>It is not like a Slackware CD screams when you shove it into a blender
<OriansJ`>really really short version of the Code of Conduct: Don't be an asshole and try to be considerate of the people you interact with. This is a community where we want people to have positive experiences and where new people will feel comfortable to join.
<pkill9>rain1: can you provide a link to the GUI you made for helping write package definitions?
<pkill9>cool thanks
<pkill9>i have a command line python script for helping write package definitions
<rain1>cbaines, nckx: the document does tell people don't say "hey guys". do you think it would be improvement to add that information?
<cbaines>do you mean "doesn't"?
<nckx>rain1: s/does/doesn't/?
<nckx>Always too slow today.
<cbaines>Regardless, I see it as covered under this point "Using welcoming and inclusive language"
<rain1>i search "guys" it is not there
<cbaines>but trying to make it clearer probably wouldn't be a bad thing
<vagrantc>you can't literally define everything
<nckx>rain1: I'm personally weary of adding too many concrete examples, because it can encourage letter-of-the-law trolling.
<OriansJ`>I agree with nckx here
<rain1>what about adding just this one single concrete example?
<nckx>^ Not talking about Copenhagen_Bram, there, obviously!
<OriansJ`>Forbidding a phrase as universally unacceptable is ultimately going to be the wrong thing sometime in the future.
<OriansJ`>But the nice thing about this community is that many people are aware of the sort of things that some people on this channel might find less comfortable and provided we are all aware and considerate, I don't think policing will really be required.
<OriansJ`>Even those that don't agree with the very concept of codes of conduct need to be welcome, provided they adhere to the general understanding of being considerate of others.
<nckx>People saying ‘guys’ in here isn't really the problem. It's when they insist on repeating it after being asked not to :-)
<rain1>people are uncomfortable being publically shamed for accidentally violating a #guix norm that is not expected most other places. It is a repeating pattern here.
<nckx>The word ‘shamed’ has officially lost all meaning.
<rain1>not putting it in writing seems intentionally sadistic to be quite honest. if the code of conduct document does not properly inform you how to conduct yourself what is its purpose?
<OriansJ`>but rain1 is it actually shamed to be politely asked to stop? Or do you feel a private channel would be required for that?
<rain1>that's a good question. i don't think a second channel would be a good solution, it complicates things a lot
<OriansJ`>I was thinking more direct messaging
<OriansJ`>like foo said blah, send private message informing them of the guix channel standard or is it reasonable to discuss such things openly
<pkill9>you can't say 'hey guys'?
<OriansJ`>pkill9: I believe context and audience decide if that is appropriate. Thoughts less words on the other hand are not
<nckx>pkill9: You can. But it wouldn't be nice to keep doing so after being asked not to, right?
<OriansJ`>nckx: that is the whole audience part I was indicating.
<lfam>I'm trying to use `guix copy` for the first time (!) but it's failing with "guix copy: error: failed to connect to `#<input-output: channel (open) 4864020>': Protocol error"
<lfam>Any ideas?
<pkill9>yeah, i'm curious why people would be asked not to though
<nckx>OriansJ`: I'm not contradicting you.
<OriansJ`>nckx: sorry
<cbaines>lfam, does running guile directly over SSH work, e.g. ssh guile ?
<vagrantc>pkill9: it arguably assumes gender
<nckx>pkill9: Because not everyone here is a guy.
<OriansJ`>pkill9: some women and transgender individuals feel excluded by the phrase
<nckx>‘Guy’ is not gender-neutral.
<lfam>cbaines: Aha :) Thank you
<pkill9>ah yeah i see
<OriansJ`>one must remember there are people very different then you on this channel
<cbaines>lfam, I think similar requirements to the build offloading exist
<lfam>Hmm... and of course the key authorization
<cbaines>Yes, probably
<lfam>The borg test suite is extremely slow on my 6 watt "server"
<pkill9>I thought when people say 'hey guys', 'guys' just means 'people', and not actually assuming everyone is male
<cbaines>some people do, some people don't, so you have to just play it safe, and avoid the ambiguity where possible
<nckx>pkill9: Interesting. So would you refer to two women as ‘those two guys over there’?
<nckx>(Honest question.)
<nckx>Perhaps it's a regional thing, but I've never heard it used that consistently inclusive.
<pkill9>hmm, when you put it like that, no i wouldn't, so i guess not
<OriansJ`>nckx: I only heard that used in regards to a group of girls, when in regards to the women's swim team but that might not be the best example
<nckx>OriansJ`: Oh! Interesting! I've literally never heard it used that way and it sounds very odd to my ears.
<OriansJ`>If I remember correctly, it also appears with similar context in the Hollywood movie Swimfan (2002)
<OriansJ`>it also tends to appear in Movies featuring women in sports teams but not curling or football, which seems perhaps because those movies are about woman in non-American sports teams
<OriansJ`>(soccer for Americans reading the above)
<nckx>OriansJ`: Which makes me wonder what women soccer players are called :-)
<pkill9>how do i integrate fonts from a separate profile from ~/.guix-profile?
<pkill9>oh i see, i think i gotta change /run/current-system/profile/etc/fonts/fonts.conf somehow
<OriansJ`>nckx: speaking of which, that is a rather popular phrase used in Hollywood Movies used in regards to a group of men.
<pkill9>or i'll just put them in ~/.guix-profile for now
<nckx>pkill9: That's certainly the easier option (I'm afraid I don't know the answer).
<nckx>OriansJ`: What... ladies?
<OriansJ`>nckx: correct
<nckx>Surely only ever derogatory...
<OriansJ`>seems more often used between close friends/family or people trying to help others get better
<pkill9>yeah, i only imagine it being used to refer to women when it's between friends
<pkill9>well, looks like font directories are specified as a config flag for fontconfig (--with-add-fonts)
<mbakke>FWIW the GNU Collaborative International Dictionary of English defines guy (among other things) as: "4. A member of a group of either sex, usually a friend or comrade; -- usually used in the pl.; as, “tell the guys to come inside; are any of you guys interested in a game of tennis?”. [Informal]"
<mbakke>A couple of other dictionaries I've checked seems to agree.
<tune>The rule (in multiple languages) is generall that a group of males can be guys, and a mixed-gender group can also be guys, but a group of all females would be girls. Even then, I think "hey guys" would probably be fine in just about all situations. Even "dude" is gender neutral by now. Keep in mind that english is a living language and people are going to find new ways to use old words. I definitely think it's
<tune>a bit ridiculous to stop people from saying "hey guys". I also hope that the complaints are at least rising from someone being offended personally and not to try to be offended on the behalf of others.
<tune>as for the problem being more that someone is using a term after being told to stop, I think it's important to understand why they were told to stop and to possibly debate the reasoning behind this
<nckx>Good morning Guix! I fell asleep behind my keyboard and it was glorious.
<nckx>...aaand now people are being labelled ‘offended’ and sexist rules trotted out.
<nckx>I was wrong, rain1 was very right. Please just add ‘don't say hey guys’ to or as an example to the CoC. Else we'll see no end to such argumentation.
<nckx>ACTION goes to work a bit less jolly.
<Copenhagen_Bram>you mean strict anti-sexist rules
<OriansJ`>To save this channel, Please move all discussion about guix Code of Conduct and community behavior moderation to #guix-COC-discussion
<g_bor[m]>OriansJ`: +1, but then we should mention this new channel at least on the website, and whoever knows where else. Do we have a checklist on what should be done, when spinning up a new channel? How do we advertise it? (I'm willing to help)
<Copenhagen_Bram>can I boot guixSD from a usb drive, then dd another operating system to that usb drive, without anything crazy happening?
<Copenhagen_Bram>how much of it runs in memory?
<efraim>do i need to move my symlink from .config/guix/latest to something else? like .config/guix/current?
<g_bor[m]>efraim: I guess no. civodul wrote, that the .config/guix/current is created by the new guix pull, if I remember correctly.
<OriansJ`>g_bor[m]: We could always include a reference to it in the Code of Conduct. As for advertise it, one need only inform people to take conversations of that type to that channel where it belongs.
<Copenhagen_Bram>hi guys
<Copenhagen_Bram>hi guix* omg
<Copenhagen_Bram>so how do I start a service listed in guix system search?
<Copenhagen_Bram>i want to install/start the ntp service and have the time be accurate in guixSD live
<Copenhagen_Bram>so that maybe ssh certificates will be trusted
<efraim>if you run 'herd status' it'll list all the installed services, 'herd status | grep ntp' will show you the full name of the service
<efraim>so you can run 'herd status foo' to see if its already running or not
<Copenhagen_Bram>it says ntp not found
<Copenhagen_Bram>so how do i install the ntp service?
<cbaines>Copenhagen_Bram, you'll need to add it to your operating system configuration, and then run guix system reconfigure
<Copenhagen_Bram>would that work in guix live? without rebooting? there isn't a /etc/config.scm
<efraim>for the install media it would be easier to just set the clock yourself, unless you're already making a custom image
<Copenhagen_Bram>today is june the 12th right?
<efraim>can you set it with unix time?
<Copenhagen_Bram>err how?
<Copenhagen_Bram>tried date 1528785950 didn't work
<efraim>maybe 'date --set='@1528786131'
<Copenhagen_Bram>huh, certificates are still invalid
<Copenhagen_Bram>oh btw i ruined one of my ttys by running cat /etc/localtime or something, how do i reset it
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<sneek>Welcome back civodul, you have 1 message.
<sneek>civodul, nckx says: Nice. Thanks for both patches!
<efraim>Copenhagen_Bram: Ctrl + L ?
<Copenhagen_Bram>efraim: no, it's still messed up
<Copenhagen_Bram>hmm, it's too bad tar takes a really long time to extract just a single file
<efraim>civodul: do i need to move my symlink from .config/guix/latest to something else? like .config/guix/current?
<civodul>efraim: you can just "rm ~/.config/guix/latest" and enjoy :-)
<Copenhagen_Bram>i think guix froze up again for some reason... so i C-c'd it and ran guix system init again. I really hope that doesn't mess up the system
<rekado>Copenhagen_Bram: It won’t mess up the system. Guix is transactional.
<rekado>Copenhagen_Bram: what do you mean by “froze up”, though?
<Copenhagen_Bram>it was copying dbus-daemon or something and then it stopped
<Copenhagen_Bram>like it did when i was making a disk image except that was probably caused by my drive running out of space
<Copenhagen_Bram>is the garbage collecter thing really good at clearing up disk space?
<Copenhagen_Bram>does guix have to download everything again if I run guix system init again? it looks like it's downloading everything. Or is it just downloading new versions?
<rekado>Copenhagen_Bram: no, it won’t have to download things again that it has already downloaded.
<Copenhagen_Bram>i wonder why it's downloading more things then
<rekado>Copenhagen_Bram: the garbage collector will remove everything that is not reachable through GC roots, e.g. everything belonging to unlinked profile generations.
<Copenhagen_Bram>wb madage
<Copenhagen_Bram>it's compiling adwaita, is it supposed to do that too?
<rekado>Copenhagen_Bram: that depends on whether there is a binary substitute for the variant of adwaita that corresponds to your version of Guix.
<rekado>if there is none then compiling it is expected.
<Copenhagen_Bram>huh, i'm getting a lot of depreciated warnings
<reepca>hmm, gst-plugins-base is still failing to build
<reepca>the elements/opus test seems to be f ailing
<Copenhagen_Bram>reepca: that sucks
<AliceTheGorgon>Anyone know why "guix offload test" might get stuck with no error?
<AliceTheGorgon>It said "guix offload: '' is running guile (GNU Guile) 2.2.3", and just seems to be stuck now.
<AliceTheGorgon>I've let it sit there for over 10 minutes, and it doesn't appear to be doing anything, and I'm not seeing anything that looks like a build process on the target machine.
<reepca>huh. But strangely enough when I do "guix build --check gst-plugins-base" there isn't an error. I haven't done a "guix pull" or anything between those... weird.
<g_bor_>rekado: should we discuss the first GSoC evaluation?
<Rukako>g_bor_: what is your gsoc project?
<Copenhagen_Bram>it didn't booot
<Copenhagen_Bram>My bios is libreboot. I checked the config, it looks like it tries to unencrypt. My hard drive is an ext4 filesystem encrypted with luks. Should I have used lvm?
<snape>Copenhagen_Bram: no, GuixSD doesn't support LVM
<snape>but you don't need it :)
<snape>what do you mean by "it doesn't boot"?
<snape>where is it stuck?
<Copenhagen_Bram>snape: Libreboot looks like GRUB but with a picture of a gnu and a penguin in the background. When I select the first option, the screen goes blank except for said gnu and penguin background. No password prompt, nothing. I tried typing my password even though there was no prompt, but nothing happens
<Copenhagen_Bram>Is there a way to get debug info?
<thomassgn>the thing about not using "guys" is that we don't need to use it, it can be discouraging to some, and it costs us nothing to use more inclusive words. And even though it is being used about several genders in some contexts and sometimes even used by non-cis-masculine people; may also be an indicator for how masculine our culture is. Maybe in a few years the barrier has become completely broken down, but as of
<thomassgn>now I'm quite sure there is a barrier there. I have friends, of several genders, using masculine denominators similar to "guys", I still wouldn't call them that. Just like I wouldn't call my friends with black skin "niggers" - even though they use that term about each other. But in the end it might be easiest to look at it from a cost perspective. How much does it cost any of us to change our use of "guys" to
<thomassgn>something gender neutral? I'd say close to nothing. How much does it cost to put of one contributor? even though that contributor adds a tiny package no one uses, I'd still think the cost is higher. And, as we've just seen on the ML's; text is really bad for communication. So keeping slurs or anything that can be edgy out of text communication is valuable.
<thomassgn>haha, I was reading higher up. Sorry. Should maybe have gone to the ML. :)
<thomassgn>but yeah, tune and mbakke ^^
<Copenhagen_Bram>thomassgn: yeh i understand that, right now my problem is i can't boot. Can you help me at all?
<thomassgn>hehe, Copenhagen_Bram give me a sec, to read through :-P
<snape>Copenhagen_Bram: can you type 'c'?
<snape>and then you should get into a GRUB prompt
<snape>in which you could type stuff like 'cryptomount ahci0,gpt3' or something
<Copenhagen_Bram>is that it? and then what?
<snape>and then it'll ask for a password
<snape>it's at the beginning of libreboot boot sequence I think
<rain1>thomassgn: good points .. what is your opinion on including this information in the code of conduct document?
<Copenhagen_Bram>how do i list what options (such as ahci0,gpt3) are available?
<thomassgn>sorry Copenhagen_Bram, I really know nothing about luks & libreboot.
<Copenhagen_Bram>hmm okay
<Copenhagen_Bram>snape: alright i'll try to cryptomount manually. Wish me luck
<thomassgn>rain1: I think writing specific cases like "Why we don't say 'guys'" is not very valuable. But, maybe we should write about why we avoid terms, even subtle, that potentially put people in boxes or others them; might be good idea.
<rain1>I see! how will people know not to say this particular thing without it being explained?
<thomassgn>by telling them I think. It's good to make small mistakes. That makes it easier for our community to train and stay vigilant for these things, and also to respond in a nice way to any microaggressions. They're not big things and we shouldn't treat them as such either.
<rain1>I understand
<thomassgn>also, for any lurkers, seeing that when people make mistakes, they are gently corrected sends a clear signal. That we care, and we want to welcome anyone, and most important - we will take steps to try to make interactions as smooth as possible for all involved. I mean, I know there are a few - probably many, in guix that I fundamentally disagree with on lots of topics. But I don't disagree on or in guix. I
<thomassgn>want/need guix to be a good community focused on the OS/package manager.
<thomassgn>I'm being very wordy today it seems. :-)
<thomassgn>is "lurkers" an allright term? Hehe. idk. what is a better term?
<rain1>thanks. your input is valauble
<Copenhagen_Bram>snape: I tried it. `cryptomount ahci0` prints nothing and returns to the grub> prompt
<snape>yes, but you left and I didn't have time to tell reply :p
<snape>*to reply
<Copenhagen_Bram>Oh. Well what did you want to say?
<snape>you need to identify first the device that needs to be unencrypted
<jahb>hi guix o/ is there a guide for what to do on a foreign distro with regard to .config/guix/current?
<snape>btw how can you talk without being able to boot?
<Copenhagen_Bram>snape: I'm on a guixsd live usb
<jahb>so far I have discovered to guix pull twice
<Copenhagen_Bram>I made a custom disk image with weechat and links and curl and wget :)
<snape>oh nice
<snape>can you access your drive then?
<Copenhagen_Bram>yeah, why?
<snape>because what you can do is:
<jahb>but now I don't know what to do about statements in ~/.profile (like "export GUIX_PROFILE="$HOME/.guix-profile" and similar)
<snape>ln -s /boot/grub/grub.cfg /boot/grub/libreboot_grub.cfg
<Copenhagen_Bram>does that work if /boot is encrypted
<thomassgn>I also think we should remember that guix is actually doing quite well with inclusion and having a welcoming community. Pat ourselves on the back. But this, just like freedom, is a "struggle" that never ends. We need our utopia to have a goal to steer towards, but we will never land there. Which is why we need to be able to keep the balance, to continue training and remembering. In many ways this is the same as
<thomassgn>having "pests" and "predators" in a garden. If you kill all the pest, the predators go somewhere else, when the pest comes back it has free reign and will hit you much harder. blablabla :-P I'll check back in later. :-) thanks rain1.
<Copenhagen_Bram>although it'll be `ln -s /mnt/boot/grub/grub.cfg /mnt/boot/grub/libreboot_grub.cfg`
<snape>because /mnt will be hardcoded then
<g_bor_>Rukako: I'm a mentor. We are comentoring with civodul and rekado, both in your project and in Tatiana's.
<snape>cd /mnt/boot/grub
<snape>ln -s grub.cfg libreboot_grub.cfg
<Rukako>sorry, I did not know
<Copenhagen_Bram>should i rm libreboot_grub.cfg first?
<snape>hm yes if it exists
<Copenhagen_Bram>and thanks snape for helping me
<g_bor_>Rukako: that must be my fault, sorry that I was not seeking contact more actively.
<snape>but I'm not extremely sure how it works
<Rukako>I knew that I had 3 mentors and their names but I did not make the connection to your irc nick, my apologies
<Rukako>even though I should have matched the initials
<Copenhagen_Bram>snape: I'll give it a try. Is there anything you'd like to say before I reboot? Such as I thought you were gonna tell me how to find the device I need to cryptomount
<snape>thomassgn: you quoted the bible :p
<snape>Copenhagen_Bram: hmm
<snape>I think it should detect automatically your encrypted disk
<snape>but I'm not sure *how* it does that
<snape>and it's very slow anyway
<snape>(disclaimer: I use libreboot too)
<snape>I find it faster to "cryptomount" manually
<snape>but you need to find out how to name your disk
<Copenhagen_Bram>how to name it?
<snape>I don't remember how I did that but there are rules about how to get GRUB to understand that /dev/sda2 is ahci0,gpt3
<Copenhagen_Bram>well i need to mount /dev/sda1
<Copenhagen_Bram>only one partition
<Copenhagen_Bram>should I have left some empty space in front of the partition? I thought there already was, cfdisk says it starts at 2048 sectors
<snape>I'm trying to find where it's documented
<snape>no you don't need GRUB to be installed
<snape>because you'll use libreboot's grub
<snape>and that's the point of /boot/grub/libreboot_grub.cfg
<snape>libreboot's grub reads it
<snape>once your partition is unencrypted of course
<Copenhagen_Bram>if it unencrypts... because it doesn't even give me a password prompt
<snape>yes if it unencrypts... That's our problem, I understand :)
<Copenhagen_Bram>that looks useful, thanks
<siraben>Which package would allow me to see emojis?
<Kiwihagen_Bram>Hey guys
<Kiwihagen_Bram>Hey guix
<Kiwihagen_Bram>i hate habits
<Kiwihagen_Bram>snape: It worked. I used cryptomount ahci0;msdos1 and try_user_config crypto0
<Kiwihagen_Bram>Thanks. Now I must wait for weechat to slowly download. Lol
<Kiwihagen_Bram>In the meantime I'll just use kiwiirc
<Kiwihagen_Bram>Are you sure guix doesn't support a separate /boot partition? I think I'd like a speedier boot
<siraben>Is there an alternative to fonts-symbola in Guix?
<snape>Kiwihagen_Bram: yes Guix probably supports a separate /boot partition
<snape>I never tried
<snape>I also don't know why is libreboot so slow
<snape>and I don't know if having a separate /boot partitiou would help
<rekado_>siraben: There is “Noto Emoji”, which hasn’t been packaged yet.
<rekado_>I’m confused by the fact that Symbola appears to have been packaged for Debian:
<rekado_>maybe an older version of the font was released under a free license.
<siraben>Thanks rekado_
<snape>rekado_: indeed! it was free on Jan 29 (, and not anymore on Mar 23 (
<snape>which is a good news for Guix, we can still package the free version
<g_bor[m]>rekado_: hello!
<rekado_>snape: yes, exactly.
<rekado_>g_bor[m]: Hi
<rekado_>g_bor[m]: we have two GSoC evaluations to do.
<civodul>g_bor[m], rekado_: when's the deadline?
<g_bor[m]>rekado_,civodul: We were asked to do it by tomorrow.
<civodul>oh, tomorrow is quite soon
<civodul>sneek: what is tomorrow?
<sneek>Last time I checked tomorrow is quite soon
<g_bor[m]>The official deadline is June 15 at 16:00 UTC.
<rekado_>at this rate of learning sneek will become self-aware “quite soon”.
<thomassgn>snape: did I?
<castilma>hey, guix pull failed: compiling... 100.0% of 179 files
<castilma>Exception thrown while printing backtrace:
<castilma>In procedure private-lookup: No variable bound to define-module* in module (guile)
<castilma>from commit e68e4a906f2a3ca74cf3f0ae9ddf7ad6d627b6ac
<g_bor[m]>rekado_, civodul : on what channel should we discuss this?
<castilma>known problem or sth on my side?
<jlicht>hey guix
<g_bor[m]>jlicht: hello
<oreloznog>castilma: Maybe relaunch 'guix pull' can resolve...?
<snape>thomassgn: yes,, it sounds like your story about predators
<civodul>castilma: that's a non-deterministic bug
<mbakke>Ooh, there's a GStreamer conference in Edinburgh in October. I suggest everyone bring their i686 and armhf systems and try to run the test suites live :P
<civodul>mbakke: what a fun workshop that would be! :-)
<civodul>did you know that GitHub-generated tarballs have non-zero timestamps?
<civodul>they seem to have timestamps corresopnding to the date of the last commit that changed each file
<jlicht>what was/is the recommended way to update guix-daemon on non-Guix-
<thomassgn>snape: Haha, neat. I see this concept coming up so often. Most forms of good vs. evil and balance theories, it's a common theme/subject in permaculture, some perspectives on health, vipassana/budhism. Probably a bunch more. :-)
<civodul>jlicht: "guix pull && guix package -u guix" as root, since normally the 'guix' package is installed in root's profile
<castilma>civodul: for contributors, the manual recommends linking ~/.config/guix/current of the user and root to the git checkout. what's the state with the current guix pull? is it possible, to share a guix between a user and root (to prevent rebuilding of the same guix twice)? (the new guix pull doesn't build the daemon, right? but the root user needs it.)
<jlicht>civodul: thanks!
<civodul>castilma: the manual used to suggest tweaking the ~/.config/guix/latest (not "current") symlink, but it no longer does :-)
<Rukako>civodul: hi, I was extremely wrong about match indeed
<Rukako>not sure how I got the idea that ... does not bind
<Rukako>I swear that I read it in a manual somewhere but I can't find anything like that
<Rukako>and I had issues when first testing it but now it works
<castilma>right. i meant latest. so, there is no way to build guix only once for a user and root?
<Rukako>feels like I got transfered into another world where match works differently, h-heh
<snape>castilma: yes there is a way
<snape>it's just that the installation script assumes it's useful that guix is installed by the root account (which I don't agree with)
<snape>you could very well symlink the daemon you user's guix instead
<castilma>pe: so root should guix pull && guix package -i guix; and then the users should use that guix? (how?)
<snape>well users can 'guix pull' and then use their own version of Guix
<snape>but they still get to use root's version of guix-daemon
<snape>which is fine because it's not updated often but...
<snape>(oh I did a typo earlier: "you could very well symlink the daemon to your user's guix instead" I meant)
<jlicht>hmm, it seems to not work on my ancient arm system with the same problem I've had for some time that prevents me from doing guix pull
<castilma>i meant to prevent the need for the sysadmin to guix pull twice (once for the root and once it's normal user)
<snape>castilma: for this, you can change your /etc/systemd/system/guix-deamon.service file so that it points to your user instead of pointing to root
<castilma>sorry, forgot to mention that I'm on guixsd?
<divansantana_>anyone got adb working on guixsd? Or is known not to work?
<snape>oh I don't know why I assumed you weren't
<civodul>Rukako: no problem, 'match' is a little bit weird at first
<civodul>Rukako: that said, if you stumble upon a situation where it doesn't behave the way you think, just let us know and we'll take a look
<jlicht>civodul: I'm getting on both guix pull as user or root :/
<snape>I was confused because of jlicht who isn't on GuixSD :)
<Rukako>civodul: will do!
<jlicht>I am working on a GuixSD laptop, with a non-GuixSD arm-board at home :-)
<snape>oooh way too complicated :p
<rekado_>divansantana: I used adb once on GuixSD, no problems.
<jlicht>divansantana_: you might need to add a udev rule, I might have it somewhere
<divansantana_>jlicht: cool. That sounds worth a shot.
<divansantana_>ACTION or it's just my device. Will tamper somemore
<jlicht>Found it! It's in the manual:
<civodul>jlicht: ouch, super weird; is it Guile 2.2?
<jlicht>civodul: that might very well be it
<jlicht>it's an old guix installation that I dusted off and recently started using again.
<snape>castilma: I'm not 100% sure but my understanding is that with GuixSD, doing 'sudo -E guix system reconfigure config.scm' will use your current guix package for the daemon, thus it'll be updated and you won't need to do 'guix pull' as root.
<castilma>ok thanks
<divansantana_>jlicht: oh great! I should have checked the manual :((9
<snape>so you just need one 'guix pull' as user
<divansantana_>jlicht: thanks
<jlicht>divansantana_: yw. You don't even want to know how often I've asked something that was somewhere in the manual
<divansantana_>jlicht: yeah. I also need to read up on using info better. lol
<snape>divansantana_: 'info info' then :-)
<divansantana_>snape: yep, though in Emacs. Just need more time... Or to manage my time better...
<snape>it takes one hour or so
***dmc is now known as polyzen
<castilma>I have a locale problem. after the guix pull I reconfigured and rebooted my system. now the problem $ tmux
<castilma>tmux: invalid LC_ALL, LC_CTYPE or LANG
<castilma>LANG is de_DE.UTF-8. the other 2 are empty. trying to set it fails: export LC_ALL=DE -bash: Warnung: setlocale: LC_ALL: Kann die Locale nicht ändern (DE): Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
<castilma>(error is file not found
<castilma>Setting LC_ALL to C works, but then tmux: need UTF-8 locale (LC_CTYPE) but have ANSI_X3.4-1968
<rekado_>LC_ALL should not be set AFAIK
***polyzen is now known as dc
<g_bor[m]>rekado_: Was it every benchmarked why the hydra frontend is slow sometimes?
<g_bor[m]>Is that a database bottleneck?
<rekado_>I think the primary problem was the server where hydra is hosted.
<castilma>k, tmux searches in /run/current-system/locale/2.26 but now only 2.27 exists. is that a known problem, that updating the systems glibc breaks all old binaries' locale?
<rekado_>castilma: you can install locales for older glibc versions.
<rekado_>the problem here is with glibc upstream; locale data of one version are not guaranteed to be compatible with another version, so we needed to patch the glibc to allow for versioned locale data.
<rekado_>castilma: you will also find that updating tmux will install a variant that is linked with glibc 2.27.
<Kiwihagen_Bram>hey guix
<Kiwihagen_Bram>i'm in gnome, it says there's no bluetooth even though there is, and I can't find a button to lock the screen
<rekado_>Kiwihagen_Bram: is the bluetooth device recognized by the kernel? If it is check that it is not silenced by rfkill.
<rekado_>ACTION knows very little about GNOME.
<rekado_>ACTION goes offline for a few hours
<Kiwihagen_Bram>rekado_: rfkill says there's an unblocked bluetooth device
<Kiwihagen_Bram>wait does anyone use gnome here?
<g_bor[m]>Kiwihagen_Bram: I'm using GNOME.
<g_bor[m]>But unfortunately I have no bluetooth device.
<iyzsong>Kiwihagen_Bram: i think your user need to be in the 'lp' group, does it?
<efraim>I'm on enlightenment
<civodul>iyzsong: 'lp'? that sounds like a printer thing no?
<iyzsong>civodul: well, the bluetoothd daemon require it, I documented it in the 'bluetooth-service'.
<iyzsong>since then, I haven't use bluetooth devices...
<iyzsong>ACTION AFK to sleep, bye :-
<civodul>oh, i see
<Kiwihagen_Bram>efraim: enlightenment is awesome
<Kiwihagen_Bram>i should add it eventually
<Kiwihagen_Bram>ACTION has gnome, xfce, i3, and ratpoison available to log in with
<mbakke>nckx: What's the use in duplicating patches already on the staging branch (on core-updates)?
<mbakke>Also, I would recommend to not "ungraft" until later in the cycle, I have a patch for perl that will conflict:
<Kiwihagen_Bram>I can't add my secret keys to gpg, it says no pinentry. I installed pinentry, but I still get that error.
<jlicht>Kiwihagen_Bram: You might need to add a gpg-agent pinentry line to ~/.gnupg/gpg-agent.conf
<jlicht>eg `pinentry-program /home/jelle/.guix-profile/bin/pinentry-gtk-2'
<Kiwihagen_Bram>it worked, thanks
<jlicht>Kiwihagen_Bram: :)
<Kiwihagen_Bram>ACTION suspects that gpg has its own guix environment of dependencies and tests what happens if he removes pinentry from his profile
<Kiwihagen_Bram>ACTION suspected wrongly
<Kiwihagen_Bram>How do I list what files are installed from a package? Can I list what files would be installed from an uninstalled package? I'd like to find the package that contains the clear and reset commands
<jlicht>Kiwihagen_Bram: not without having the realised derivation in your store, no
<jlicht>if you do have it built (using e.g. `guix build <...>'), you could just use ls/find/$YourFavoriteToolThatShowsFiles
<snape>Kiwihagen_Bram: but the answer is... 'ncurses'
<jlicht>but I think I am being deliberately obtuse about what you mean when you say "uninstalled" :-). If you meant to say uinstalled /and/ not yet built or downloaded, then the answer right now is no
<Kiwihagen_Bram>I see. It would take a database of installed files to do that. So, where would I use ls/find/$MyFavoriteToolThatShowsFilesIMustLookUpAListOfToolsThatShowFilesOnDuckduckgo to find a particular command?
<Kiwihagen_Bram>Just something like `ls -R /gnu/store | grep reset`?
<jlicht>sneek: later tell Kiwihagen_Bram: that could work, but `locate reset' makes more sense in that case, provided you have set it up to run `updatedb' on a regular basis.
<sneek>Will do.
<Copenhagen_Bram>i heard that
<Copenhagen_Bram>i finally got weechat installed so i'm logged in now
<Copenhagen_Bram>hmm. i guess i'll see what happens if i run updatedb
<Copenhagen_Bram>should I run it as sudo?
<jlicht>Copenhagen_Bram: I do, usually. But don't trust some random person on the Internet ;)
<Copenhagen_Bram>after I run guix pull, should I run both guix package -u and guix system reconfigure?
<Copenhagen_Bram>> Failed to generate /var/locatedb.n
<Copenhagen_Bram>(after several permission denieds)
<Copenhagen_Bram>hmm maybe i have to run updatedb as root
<snape>Copenhagen_Bram: but most probably if you're looking for the package containing a file, you won't have that package in the store...
<mbakke>efraim: Can you verify whether current ldb builds on aarch64? My node is unreachable atm.
<efraim>mbakke: sure, i'll test it now
<efraim>mbakke: it built fine
<efraim>want me to post a log?
<mbakke>It seems it only support LMDB on 64-bit systems, yet the test suite now requires LMDB.
<efraim>or are we testing for armhf
<mbakke>Do we have a canonical way of checking for a 64-bit system? Would it make sense with a (target-64bit? ...) in (guix utils)?
<efraim>linux64 doesn't check it
<efraim>we have our test for armhf, i was thinking it would be nice to add a whole bunch of other 'target-<arch>?' macros
<efraim>armhf 'check failure for ldb on my aarch64 box
<janneke>ACTION just released Mes 0.15
<efraim>mbakke: i'm going to try building ldb without tests and see if samba is ok with it
<efraim>i assume ldb fails on i686-linux too
<efraim>janneke: yay!
<jonsger>janneke: and Gitlab is down, so know one can see it :(
<vagrantc>ACTION proposed a guix talk for debconf18
<vagrantc>no idea if it'll get accepted
<vagrantc>"My crush on GNU Guix" :)
<janneke>jonsger: it's up for me -- i waited for that
<janneke>vagrantc: oh, *nice* -- i was going to ask the title ;-)
<jonsger>janneke: yes, now its back
<jonsger>vagrantc: does Debian has a guix package?
<janneke>i would *love* more interaction between Debian an Guix
<vagrantc>janneke: basically a debian developer's perspective on guix
<vagrantc>and debconf18 is this year's annual debian conference, for those who don't know
<vagrantc>jonsger: no, though it's proposed
<janneke>i never became a debian developer, but almost did so -- ran it from 1999 till 2 years ago
<janneke>jonsger: there is a git archive with a pretty easy recipe to build a guix .deb yourself, though
<jonsger>janneke: dont need it. opensuse has a guix package in tumbleweed and leap :)
<vagrantc>janneke: if you have better leads on existing work to generate a guix .deb, it'd be great if you could comment on
<vagrantc>janneke: i linked a couple that i found
<janneke>vagrantc: no, i only know about detrout's that i used for a while
<efraim>mbakke: building samba for armhf-linux with tests for ldb disabled works
<efraim>hmm, i got openntpd running in a container but it wouldn't connect to the ntp servers, i wonder if its because of the container or because of the VM
<lfam>Substitution is crashing when querying berlin:
<civodul>lfam: oops, ENOSPC
<lfam>I thought we had enough packages, personally ;)
<civodul>heheh :-)
<civodul>i'm running the gc now but i wonder why this happened
<civodul>it's supposed to run regularly
<civodul>(define %gc-job
<civodul> ;; The garbage collection mcron job, once per day.
<civodul> #~(job '(next-hour '(4))
<civodul> (string-append #$guix "/bin/guix gc -F80G")))
<civodul>did we consume more than 80G since 4AM?
<lfam>Is there a log of the cron job?
<civodul>i'm afraid not
<civodul>it's pretty lo tech
<civodul>well mcron is supposed to be able to send email
<civodul>i've never tried though
<cbaines>specifying #:log-file for mcron might be good
<cbaines>I've had problems trying to work out what it's doing
<civodul>it's a bit opaque indeed
<civodul>lfam: it should be back up now
<civodul>ACTION wishes we had a Prometheus service or something
<cbaines>I wish that too :)
<cbaines>I've got quite a few services on the go though at the moment...
<civodul>note that we have more and more Go packages
<civodul>so maybe someday Prometheus will be a low-hanging fruit
<cbaines>and an importer now I think :)
<civodul>we should prolly merge it
<lfam>Yes, I think it's ready. I'll do it tonight
<g_bor>+1 for Prometheus service :)
<ngz>OOC, what is Prometheus?
<ngz>(I think a web search is going to show many false positives)
<cbaines>It's a metrics based monitoring system
<ngz>OK. Now wonder I hadn't heard about it.
<ngz>err No wonder*
<civodul>lfam: kudos if you can merge it or otherwise provide feedback to Pierre-Antoine :-)
<ngz>Speaking of monitoring, I planned to package Munin at some point.
<roptat>oh, while doing guix pull: "In procedure private-lookup: Module named (guile) does not exist"
<civodul>roptat: that same old bug :-/
<civodul>ngz: that'd be nice, too!
<civodul>at this point, any form of monitoring would be welcome
<roptat>civodul: is there something I can do except trying again?
<civodul>it's non-deterministic, so usually trying again will work
<ngz>civodul: I need to find the time to learn about writing services first.
<lfam>Mystified by these errors in the build of openimageio:
<civodul>lfam: what's supposed to provide the 'numeric' C++ name space? numpy?
<civodul>it could be that they changed names or something
<lfam>Thanks for the tip. Looks like a change in Boost, possibly moving the namespace to numpy
<rekado_>I wish I knew more about Guile to able to help track down and fix this non-deterministic thread safety bug.
<rain1>what is known about the bug?