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<civodul>"For things that are really difficult and seemingly hopeless we have the bootstrappable project."
<civodul>rekado: you're really good at promoting it :-)
<vagrantcish>if a configured substitute server isn't reachable, does guix fail to run, or does it simply proceed with the reachable substitutes?
<mange>The latter.
<vagrantcish>and if all substitutes aren't reachable, it starts building locally?
<mange>Although if it can connect to the substitute server and an error occurs in download the substitute then it will stop at that point and report the error.
<mange>Yes, if it can't find a substitute for something then it will build it locally.
<mange>If you use --fallback then on an error downloading it will also fall back to building locally.
<vagrantcish>i don't see an obvious way to only install from substitutes. though i guess you'll frequently need to build *something* locally
<mange>Yeah, I don't think there is any way to do that. It's often the case that substitutes don't exist, rather than substitute servers being unavailable, so in that case building locally seems like a sensible behaviour.
<mange>It has been discussed on the mailing list, but I don't think anything's been done to add an --only-substitutes flag.
<mange>I think you can use `guix weather` to get some idea of how many of the substitutes you're looking for are available, but I've never used it so I don't know how it works.
<vagrantcish>efraim: well, apparently there's an incompatibility in the extlinux generated that u-boot doesn't read so well.
<vagrantcish>efraim: er, extlinux.conf ... UI isn't recognized in u-boot
<bavier``>we're trying to stay away from github autogenerated tarballs in new packages, right?
<lfam>bavier``: Yes, if there is another option. There is a relatively high chance they could change over time
<bavier``>lfam: ok
<bavier``>lfam: the other option being a checkout of the repo, I suppose
<lfam>Perhaps, although I think the Git dependency is annoying
<bavier``>it is
<bavier``>many projects do not go through the work of creating a proper release tarball
<vagrantcish><unknown location>: error: you may need these modules in the initrd for /dev/sdb1: sd_mod uas usb_storage ci_hdrc ci_hdrc_imx
<vagrantcish>but the module name is actually usb-storage ... even though when loaded it may appear as usb_storage
<vagrantcish>any idea how to workaround that ? it refuses to initialize the system if i add usb_storage, as the module isn't found, and it fails when i use usb-storage, as it thinks i need usb_storage
<vagrantcish>ACTION files a bug
<mange>vagrantcish: --skip-checks will tell Guix to just do it anyway.
<vagrantcish>i think i actually need the modules ... hopefully this will still include them
<vagrantcish>ACTION will find out shortly
<vagrantcish>looks like need to name them as the actual filename, and use --skip-checks to workaround the poor check
<jD91mZM2>Does anybody happen to know how to install guix on NixOS?
<rekado>jD91mZM2: you would install it the usual way as on any other distribution.
<rekado>jD91mZM2: we have an installer script that automates the binary installation method described in the manual.
<jD91mZM2>rekado: NixOS doesn't like when you place stuff in /usr/bin though. Is this just something I should ignore?
<jD91mZM2>rekado: btw, link to the script? I can only find the manual installation method in the manual
<mubarak>Hi guys!
<rekado>jD91mZM2: you don’t need to put anything in /usr/bin.
<rekado>Guix also doesn’t do that.
<rekado>for convenience you can add a link to /usr/local/bin so that all users can have access to the “guix” command, but that’s optional.
<mubarak>I have a question. what the method or the command guix package manager use to downlaod packages when installing GuixSD from .iso image. wget or curl or ???
<rekado>neither. It uses Guix to download packages.
<mubarak>and how guix download a package from a mirror?
<efraim>iirc it uses a guile program embedded within guix for most of the actual downloads
<mubarak>I connect to the internet using usb modems(mostly Huawei), and I subscribe for unlimited slow speed packages most of the times. I also barrowed a router from my friend with a good speed but the ping respone take a long time than usual.
<mubarak>I asked about the method guix uses to download packages, because I want to know if the command it use have and option like --continue in wget, so i don't have to start the same command every time it fail because of a slow speed or a slow ping respond
<mubarak>efraim: thank you
<efraim>you could pre-download the packages and then run 'guix download file:///path/to/file' to work around timeouts
<mubarak>for a full system installation it can't be easy thing to do
<efraim>no, not so much
<mubarak>i wish if there is option for iirc to continue download by itself and if a package failed at 36% it resume from 36% and not start downloading a package from a beginning
<rekado>mubarak: you may also have more luck with binaries from
<rekado>mubarak: yes, that’s a missing feature.
<mubarak>rekado: your mirrors are fine, the problem in our ISP, unlimited packages subscribtion are very slow. and the only ISP with the fast internet speed have a limited package only(5GB, 10GB) and its very expensive.
<roptat>mubarak: I'm just curious, what ISP/country is that?
<rekado>mubarak: I mentioned because it may perform better than or in your location.
<rekado>but if your connection is severly limited maybe that doesn’t matter
<mubarak>rekado: :) I know what you mean when you mentioned berlin.guixsd. Its on my side
<efraim>Under those circumstances I would consider going for sources and building most everything locally
<roptat>isn't the source even bigger than the compiled thing though?
<efraim>Perhaps, but the source doesn't change when one of its dependencies does
<roptat>mh… sure
<mubarak>roptat: country: Sudan -- ISPs: a) Sudani:the most slow one - b) MTN Sudan: good speed but it take long time to start downloading the next package, guix download 3-4 packages and the installation fail so I repeat the command every time it fail - c) Zain Sudan: very good internet speed, but they are greedy. I have to be ritch to subsribe for its limited packages
<mubarak>efraim: I don't have a problem if the source files are bigger.
<mubarak>efraim: can guix download all the source for the packages all by itself or I should download its all manually?
<efraim>On my build slave I sometimes run 'guix build $(guix package -A | cut -f1 --output-delimiter=@) --sources=transitive'
<efraim>That should get all of the sources of all of the packages, but I think it comes to about 70 GB after it finishes patching everything
<efraim>Downloading unpatched sources would be faster and more reusable
<roptat>you can build everything with --no-substitutes
<efraim>I'm not sure of how to do that exactly though
<efraim>ie patching and recompressing gcc takes a while, and can be done later
<mubarak>efraim: thank you so much for the good advice :) and you too roptat :)
<mubarak>I will read more about compiling a distribution from source. And i will learn guile, and try adding this feature.
<roptat>looking at the code, I feel like the actual download is in the C++ part
<roptat>nevermind, it's in guix/scripts/substitute.scm
<mubarak>roptat: haha i was trying to ask you where I can find that code. thanks
<jD91mZM2>I'm currently trying out Guix in a VM. How comes nss-certs isn't in base packages? I mean literally everyone will want that... right?
<mubarak>rekado, efraim: excellent ASCII art in \\o/
<efraim> fails with debian's dash, it apparently has some bashisms
<davidl>mubarak: where can I find
***Guest91484 is now known as sturm
<sturm>When I run `ping` on GuixSD, I get "ping: Lacking privilege for raw socket". Is there a specific group I should be in for the necessary permission? I'm already in " users kvm netdev audio video wheel"
<sturm>(`sudo ping works` fine)
<davidl>mubarak: ok, thanks.
<davidl>sturm: my user can ping but the only other group that my user is in is "lp", but that is for access to dbus-services.
<mbakke>sturm: Did you by any chance overwrite the (setuid-programs ...) field?
<civodul>Hey hey!
<mubarak>hi civodul :)
<civodul>ACTION prepares to push 'guix pack --relocatable'
<civodul>done :-)
<bzp>hi all
<bzp>I want to install tiling window manager 'awesome', how should I declare in '/mnt/etc/config.scm'?
<pkill9>bzp: just put it in packages declaration
<catonano>bzp: this is an excerpt from my configu file
<bzp>(services (cons* (awesome-desktop-service) %desktop-services))
<bzp>Is that correct?
<catonano>it seems it is
<pkill9>oh i guess im wrong
<catonano>bzp: you forgot to include the module for awesome
<catonano>wait a minute
<bzp>How would it be the correct way?
<catonano>bzp: in the hhead of your configuration file there must be some modules imports, like this (use-modules (gnu packages linux))
<catonano>add (use-modules (gnu packages wm))
<catonano>ah no sorry
<roptat>catonano: where does your awesome-desktop-service come from? I don't see it in a recent checkout?
<catonano>I am indicating you the package, not the service
<catonano>roptat: in fact I don't know wether there's a service for awesome, i am assuming there is
<catonano>let me check
<bzp>Is that correct?
<roptat>bzp: not there, you should put it at the beginning of your file
<pkill9>i wish i understood guile lol
<roptat>actually you probably have a line such as "(use-package-modules …"
<roptat>put wm in there
<roptat>and awesome-desktop-service doesn't exist, so just adding awesome to the list of packages should be enough
<roptat>that's how I installed openbox
<catonano>I can't find a service for awesome
<catonano>bzp at the beginning of yourr file
<catonano>bzp: there is no awesome-desktop-service in guix
<catonano>so it seems
<bzp>something similar to awesome?
<roptat>like I said, just put awesome in the list of packages
<roptat>it should be enough to have it in the list of wm at login
<roptat>that's how you install openbox, there's no service for it either
<catonano>ah I see
<catonano>bzp: so you can erase the awesome-desktop-service, it doesn't exist
<soundtoxin>how do I go about changing my shell on guixsd? I've installed zsh and copied my config from another machine, but I don't know the next step
<catonano>bzp: add awesome as a packkage
<catonano>according to roptat that should be enough
<soundtoxin>thank you, I'll take a look
<roptat>there's a shell field
<bzp>and that I declare in the section:% desktop-services
<roptat>you have a section with %base-packages, that's where you add the awesome package
<roptat>you don't need a service
<roptat>if you don't need any other service, just use " (services %desktop-services)"
<catonano>bzp: no it's just (services %deskktop-services)
<catonano>with 1 k only, my keyboard is defective
<catonano>bzp: (services %desktop-services)
<soundtoxin>I added (shell "zsh") and when I login on another TTY it says it cannot execute zsh, no such file or directory.
<roptat>bzp: cons* creates a list from elements and a list. %desktop-services is already a list, so pass it directly to the services field
<roptat>soundtoxin: the manual says it should be a G-exp, so zsh (no quote)
<pkill9>soundtoxin: did you run` guix system reconfigure`?
<soundtoxin>oh gotcha
<soundtoxin>yeah pkill9
<catonano>bzp: and then (packages (cons* awesome
<catonano> %base-packages))
<bzp>ok, I'll try
<davidl>How do you get full unicode character support in urxvt? echo -e "\\u2017" up to 2019 doesn't work.
<wigust>bzp: ‘cons’ not ‘cons*’ in that case.
<wigust>nvm, ‘cons*’ should work too, sorry
<soundtoxin>now on a new tty login it complains that /gnu/store/...-zsh-5.5.1 is a directory
<roptat>soundtoxin: the default is (file-append bash "/bin/bash")
<roptat>so (file-append zsh "/bin/zsh")
<mubarak>catonano: can you share with me your config.scm for openbox and list of packages you install with it like a what file-manager menu-bar ... etc ?
<soundtoxin>roptat: is this instead of the (shell ...) bit or in addition to? putting it where I had the (shell ...) line gives an error when reconfiguring
<soundtoxin>I get invalid field specifier
<roptat>soundtoxin: (shell (file-append zsh "/bin/zsh")) should work
<soundtoxin>Sweet, that worked. Thanks.
<pkill9>is it possible to have packages built for different systems (e.g. i686-linux) in the same profile/environment?
<mubarak>sorry catonano, I meant roptat.
<rekado>pkill9: yes.
<pkill9>nice, how do i do that rekado?
<pkill9>rekado ?
<jD91mZM2>How would you enable LightDM in guix? Where can I see all available configuration settings for it?
<jD91mZM2>GuixSD* to be precise
<pkill9>jD91mZM2: this might have some info
<mubarak>roptat: very nice, thanks alot
<jD91mZM2>pkill9: Yeah but no mention of LightDM anywhere, only SLiM (isn't that project dead btw?) and SDDM
<roptat>there's gdm too, but I don't think we have a service for lightdm
<jD91mZM2>Would you consider GuixSD usable as only distro on a desktop computer? I'm currently on NixOS but I am really interested in guix
<bavier`>jD91mZM2: many of us here have been using GuixSD exclusively as their desktop OS for several years
<bavier`>jD91mZM2: whether it would work for you depends on your needs
<jD91mZM2>Without LightDM? Barbarians! /s
<soundtoxin>on most machines I just use startx to get my wm launched
<soundtoxin>on guixsd I use %desktop-services which has some sort of graphical login that I don't mind too much
<soundtoxin>are there plans to make a guix wiki equivalent to something like the arch wiki?
<wigust>jD91mZM2: SLIM works well for one year on GuixSD for me. Could I ask why do you prefer LightDM? BTW, we have a LightDM package but no service. Shouldn't be hard to write a service I guess.
<mubarak>soundtoxin: that is a "Guix Refrence Manual", there is no wiki for GuixSD yet. you can download it in .pdf format
<soundtoxin>hm I probably should have a pdf of it handy
<soundtoxin>which version do you recommend?
<mubarak>currently the manual updated for guix 0.14
<davexunit>eventually we'll have GDM, but getting GDM to run is hard
<davexunit>(so I've heard, I haven't worked on it)
<soundtoxin>I used to use GDM on Debian along with openbox just because it looked nice, but then I remember once I got a very generic error with a sad face and it wouldn't let me login. I uninstalled it after that and switched to just using startx. One less thing to break.
<mubarak>soundtoxin: do you mean which document format i should download? choose pdf file or HTML compressed "with one web page per node"
<soundtoxin>yeah that's what I meant, I didn't realize at first that there was only one pdf
<vagrantc>what's the minimum amount of memory necessary for guix pull these days?
<soundtoxin>I had a close call with a guix pull one or two days ago and I have 8GB of RAM. I was watching something in mpv (it cached the whole file in RAM) and I had Firefox open. Everything froze for a couple seconds, but after closing firefox I was fine. I think I was using 5GB+
<mubarak>firefox always make trouble, the more you leave it running the more it will take more RAM. I close it when I want to use other program that may need more memory like vlc, or if i want to go away for more than 15 min.
<mubarak>I'm thinking of using Midori instead of firefox. link
<Rukako>many people that I know have switched to qutebrowser
<Rukako>I tried midori in the past, it was somewhat fun
<Rukako>the reason that I tried it was that it was written in vala
<bavier`>I like qutebrowser too, but it's becoming harder to package for us
<roptat>vagrantc: guix pull doesn't use more than 1.5 GB of RAM in my experience
<vagrantc>roptat: thanks. was trying to run it on 512MB and got out-of-memory errors
<rekado>vagrantc: 1G is barely enough. 512MB is not enough.
<rekado>it has become a little better with guile 2.2.3 but it’s still not good enough.
<vagrantc>so, now it's time to explore offloading...
<vagrantc>or, will that not even be enough?
<rekado>soundtoxin: I recommend perusing the manual with an Info reader. That way you can use the index.
<rekado>vagrantc: if you have a machine with more memory, then offloading should help.
<rekado>“guix pull” is split into separate derivations that I think would be offloaded.
<vagrantc>yeah, splitting out the base packages really seemed to improve things a lot
<wigust>vagrantc: Maybe a swap file could help?
<vagrantc>wigust: since i've got a machine with ~3.8GB of ram available to offload to, may as well learn how to use it :)
<soundtoxin>bavier`: why is it becoming harder to package? is it related to the change from webkit to webengine?
<bavier`>soundtoxin: yes, right
<soundtoxin>I noticed that with qutebrowser on parabola. I was getting a popup message saying it fell back to webkit and that it recommended webengine instead or something, then I found out webengine was purposefully not supported in the parabola version due to it not being totally free
<bavier`>soundtoxin: and tracking the qtwebkit version that it depends on is difficult
<soundtoxin>I use firefox mainly still (icecat on guix), but I also always keep qutebrowser installed. I really like it.
<soundtoxin>I mainly only prefer firefox for all the addons it has.
<bavier`>soundtoxin: we've had some effort to liberate chromium, which I think would eventually let use package webengine
<soundtoxin>I have heard something about a chromium fork called Iridium that people seem to like lately. I've also heard of "ungoogled-chromium" which I think is packaged on a few distros.
<soundtoxin>I'm not a huge fan of chromium, but no harm in having more choices
<jD91mZM2>wigust: Sorry for the late reply. I like LightDM because almost everything else is either crappy or too specific. SLiM is fine but no longer maintained according to the Arch wiki. GDM is a little bloaty and literally has "GNOME" in the name. Doesn't leave me with many options
<jD91mZM2>And yeah I should probably make a service for it if I ever get the courage to actually try guix on my main machine... I just wanna be completely prepared first... it's scary
<jD91mZM2>Is there something like home-manager for GuixSD by the way? (It's a project that generates your ~/.zshrc and stuff using nix)
<rekado>jD91mZM2: no, this doesn’t exist.
<jD91mZM2>rekado: Aw, that's a bummer
<pkill9>rekado: how do you put packages built for different systems (e.g. i686-linux) in the same profile/environment?
<jD91mZM2>Uuuuhh okay so I'm in a VM and I'm running `guix system reconfigure`, and it seems like it's recompiling the whole of guix?
<jD91mZM2>"GUILEC gnu/packages/whatever.go"
<apteryx>This is Guix being built, yes.
<jD91mZM2>Why isn't it using a binary cache or something?
<jD91mZM2>Also it's causing me to run out of space in the VM lol
<roptat>mh… I'm proof-reading my translations for guix and I found this: "Identify inputs that should be inputs at all"
<roptat>shouldn't it be "shouldn't"?
<mbakke>roptat: Looks like you're right, the symbol name contains the "not".
<vagrantc>so this documents how to configure offload, but it's not clear how to enable it: