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<MrCStone>Yeah, I actually just use i3wm
<MrCStone>And nmtui just tells me "You cant modify this, dude"
<icarious>ACTION <3s i3-wm
<MrCStone>And then I sudo, and it is already configured
<ng0>that's what I switch into Mate for
<MrCStone>hahahaha it's a great wm, works amazing on my netbook!
<MrCStone>What I'll try is, next time I login with the user, instead of switching to root, try to activate it manually and see if it stays
<ng0>you'd have to either configure it as root to autoconnect or delete the connection from root and re-create it as normal user
<icarious>MrCStone, it is. I use it as my primary everywhere. be it notebook / workstation
<ng0>recently I had too much time spending with this with eduroam ;)
<MrCStone>ng0 That's gonna be a pain... I even checked the "activate for all users" box
<MrCStone>But still, better than my previous setup where I had to manually enter wpa_supplicant -B -interface -c<(wpa_passphrase x x)
<MrCStone>Everytime xD
<MrCStone>icarious: also on my main laptop! I don't have a proper desktop though
<MrCStone>Plus I rice the hell out of it, it's so easy and satisfying, really puts me in the zone to tackle any work
<MrCStone>It's what ultimately made me do almost everything from the command line, and as a translator it's the shit to be able to tile the windows however I want to have video, source script and target script open at the same time, so easy to switch... just love it
<icarious>MrCStone, for a while I was considering to try out Xmonad too. But I don't want to go through learning haskell. i3's config is pretty noob friendly
<MrCStone>I heard about XMonad, what are the main differences, icarious?
<icarious>MrCStone, switching / the vertical+horizontal tabbing and space management is just awesome
<MrCStone>I tried finding a lisp wm just for the lols, cause I'm also learning lisps and emacs, but with i3 I already learned to configure and it feels a bit of a pain to have to get everything right again with a new one hahahaha Mainly looking forward to the wayland alternatives once they are a bit more...less beta
<icarious>MrCStone, from what I know, unlike i3 its a bit more automatic. Like in i3 you get to manually choose the layout using mod+w or mod+s or mod+h mod+v right?. Not in xmonad I suppose
<icarious>xmonad does that for you
<icarious>MrCStone, there's a i3 spin for wayland. its called sway
<ng0>if you want to finish it, I have a branch with it..
<MrCStone>But...the good thing with i3 is actually that I can manually do it right? So that it adjusts to my workflow instead of the other way around...
<ng0>(I think I'm dangerously close to "there's an App for that")
<MrCStone>And i tried sway, but couldn't really get it to work... I'd try with guixsd, but I have too much to learn with it hahahaha
<MrCStone>ng0 a branch with what?
<ng0>with sway
<ng0>needs some last debugging
<icarious>MrCStone, that is precisely the primary difference. If you don't want it to be the other way around then i3 is the best you can get
<MrCStone>icarious, I may give it a try to see how it it equally riceable?
<ng0>I tend to work on many things at the same time, so that I can take breaks from branches where I need to do more research and testing on my other computers
<MrCStone>ng0 a branch with sway and guixsd?
<ng0>sway for guix
<icarious>MrCStone, even more I suppose. But very difficult given its haskell syntax
<ng0>if it didn't move, it's somewhere in here:
<MrCStone>Well, learning Haskell may be a good complement to my lisps learning and clojure, may give it a try
<MrCStone>can I install it directly with guix?
<ng0>well.. it moved. damn
<MrCStone>Super new to both the package manager and the distro...I cant even update hahahaha
<icarious>MrCStone, no idea. not a guixsd user "yet"
<icarious>let me search
<MrCStone>Oh!, sorry, that was answering ng0... I should get acustomed to mentioning
<icarious>MrCStone, I don't see xmonad here
<MrCStone>So, all the packages I can install with guix are there, nice to know!
<bavier>icarious: we have xmonad
<icarious>MrCStone, off-topic can an "absolute" programming noob start with any of the lisps like scheme etc? Or is it best to learn something as basic as bash and then python before considering the move
<icarious>bavier, oh ok. The web search didn't show
<MrCStone>How much of a problem is it compiling things from source? Because I'm really confused by the directory tree, I was already used to the "normal linux" one
<icarious>oh sorry
<bavier>icarious: it's on page 2 ;)
<icarious>bavier, yes
<MrCStone>icarious Well... I'd say start with python, then move to a lisp
<icarious>didn't notice that. lol
<icarious>MrCStone, ok. Will do
<MrCStone>Not because of it being particullarly difficult
<MrCStone>But because it then leads to better "aha" moments
<icarious>haha. ya. as stallman says
<MrCStone>They are like different paradigms, I'm loving learning lisps
<icarious>I use emacs already (not that I use the syntaxes much). So it would be interesting
<bavier>bash can be tricky to do actual programming in
<MrCStone>I'd recommend you doing koans and using exercism, it's cool
<icarious>bavier, not to do actual programming. but you know, as the "A for Apple" of programming
<MrCStone>bavier yeaaaah, for quick scripts I end up using more python than bash unless i need to do something with files
<MrCStone>With files and system administration, using python is more of a hassle
<MrCStone>for me at least hahaha
<icarious>It isn't possible to compile lisp code into machine code right? just like python
<MrCStone>You can compile python
<bavier>icarious: some of the lisps have native code compilers
<MrCStone>And I'm pretty sure there has to be something for lisp
<bavier>icarious: chez, iirc does native compilation
<MrCStone>Clojure does have it
<MrCStone>chez is a scheme right? bavier
<MrCStone>I just watched a talk today, about a guy using it to make a lisp interpreter in lisp
<icarious>MrCStone, compile python? : S
<MrCStone>Wait a second
<icarious>I only know of py2c which is merely "converting" to C imo
<bavier>MrCStone: right, chez is scheme
<MrCStone>icarious Can't find it now, but there were "workarounds" to compile it, one of which involved turning it into C, which then compiles
<MrCStone>No direct compilation that I know off, but then again, you could make executables, and also "compile" parts so that it loads faster
<icarious>MrCStone, that is exactly py2c. but I wasn't talking about workaround as such> I meant the default nature
<icarious>MrCStone, so with lisp also its not possible for direct compilations right?
<MrCStone>icarious from what I'm reading yep, you can! There's a stackoverflow topic on that
<icarious>oh ok
<icarious>MrCStone, thanks
<MrCStone>icarious dw mate, we are here to help! hahahaha
<icarious>MrCStone, I have always wanted to learn a lisp along with others. There's a whole culture / community behind those even today
<MrCStone>icarious ng0 bavier thanks for the help and the conversation! Gotta leave for now, will probably come tomorrow to bugger you with more questions and report any progress with wifi, keyboard layout and guix pull taking ages and then overflowing hahaha
<MrCStone>icarious Yeah, it's crazy... you can try with land of lisp and clojure for the brave and true for CLisp and clojure respectively, nice books, not too dense, fun to read
<MrCStone>icarious also the little schemer and subsequent books
<MrCStone>icarious and you can shit bricks watching this guy's lecture, can't give you the link but it was somethign like "Most beautiful piece of code ever written, lisp interpreter"
<MrCStone>Something to that effect, found it on reddit today and it was great (you can skip the first ten minutes though hahahah it's just the guy narrating his life and saying how great lisp is...but it's fun so!!
<MrCStone>Goodnight everyone!
<icarious>MrCStone, sorry was away. ya see you tomorrow
<DoublePlusGood23>I'm having a problmatic bug. It doesn't seem like Libreboot is following my system links properly.
<DoublePlusGood23>\\/var/guix/profiles/system-1-link/ is the only one I can boot from. Any others give me a "not found error"
<DoublePlusGood23>Anyone running GuixSD with Libreboot?
<ofosos[m]>coreboot with GuixSD
<DoublePlusGood23>ofosos: That might help. Do you use the GRUB payload?
<DoublePlusGood23>What would be the best way to add a second git repo as a source? I've got a program that relies on an external library that are exclusive to the program (i.e. it wouldn't make sense to seperate it)
<DoublePlusGood23>Is it possible to have two origins?
<DoublePlusGood23>It would I just make a list under the uri
<DoublePlusGood23>ケーラブ: Stratis?
<DoublePlusGood23>I should probably take a peak at this gnunet bot. hoping it's python
<CharlieBrown>dpg Stratis is a zfs replacement cobbled together from standard, time-tested components like xfs, lvm, and mayb e few other things
<ofosos[m]>dpg: yes, I think I directly boot to GRUB
<mbakke>Did anyone here forget a sweater at the restaurant last night?
<mbakke>Ricardo has it and can be found at Chris' talk 14:30.
<snape>DoublePlusGood23: I run libreboot
<snape>It would be great to know about your setup, so to help you. E.g. did you symlink /boot/grub/grub.cfg to /boot/grub/libreboot_grub.cfg?
<snape>Did you check that the symlinks are valid?
<snape>Also, it's good to have one package for a library even if it's used only once
<snape>They are distinct anyway, so why merge them? And if the package is updated, you won't need to re-build the library again for example.
<amz3>mbakke: what is Chris talk?
<amz3>prolly that
<mbakke>amz3: yes :)
<ng0>sneek: later tell DoublePlusGood23: I'm afraid the gnunet bot is a written horror story.
<ng0>sneek: later tell DoublePlusGood23: It is the plain Drupal 7 bot, integrated in Drupal
<sneek>Will do.
<ng0>sneek: later tell DoublePlusGood23: We are moving away from it ;)
<amz3>ng0: then we must find another solution for #guile because it is using that same bot
<ng0>read the email I sent a while back about the website
<ng0>we are aware of the communities depending on us
<ng0>they'll move with us, including the old logs
<ng0>it will be similar to , a local instance of it.. last I checked with the person interested in deploying it.
<amz3>oh ok
<ng0>killer feature: search!!!
<ng0>you can't even properly administrate that Drupal garbage bot
<ng0>see my attempt with #bootstrappable
<yann-kaelig>this "The number of build users determines how many build jobs may run in parallel, as specified by the --max-jobs option (see --max-jobs). To use guix system vm and related commands, you may need to add the build users to the kvm group so they can access /dev/kvm, using -G guixbuild,kvm instead of -G guixbuild " should be before the command line example as a NOTE:
<ng0>the message got cut off
<ng0>irc has message limits
<ng0>*message length
<ng0>or was this alreday the message? to me it read like there is something missing :/
<amz3>I think it's a recommandation to fix the documentation
<ng0>kodi has the worst testsuite ever.. blocking for hours.. at least the unrealistic big testsuites just fail due to lack of RAM, but kodi keeps running successful tests. which is good. but it's also annoying.
<yann-kaelig>Hello, This is my first contact with guix. I read the documentation, and I did a binary guix installation on a foreign operating system that works with the s6 init / hypervisor.
<yann-kaelig>It's been a few months since I discovered this new kind of package manager by discovering nixos then guixsd. I'm tired of the traditional package managers with all the complications that come with it and I've never been attracted by quirks like snaps or flatpak
<yann-kaelig>Thank you for this works and this new idea that seems to be the answer to what I'm looking for a moment now
<yann-kaelig>Now and now questions time :)
<pkill9>i love that dependencies are isolated from eachother
<clacke[m]>yann-kaelig: Cool. I use Ubuntu as my base system and am running the default init, but I'm running guix-daemon under s6!
<cbaines>ng0, there is a bug open about the Kodi tests maybe there is something that can be done...
<yann-kaelig>clacke[m]: hello, very interesting because I had the idea to do the same thing. In this case tell me plz where I could find this s6 guix-daemon file. I will try to build a s6serv package for it for my OS
<clacke[m]>whats your distro that uses s6?
<yann-kaelig>clacke[m]: Obarun it's based on arch and the work is done by a nice french guy
<yann-kaelig>clacke[m]: I had the idea to use this work for testing guix on top of this work
<yann-kaelig>clacke[m]: My idea is to start with a mini-minimal obarun OS with guix
<clacke[m]>I'll put up my file
<clacke[m]>but it's trivial, just one line running the daemon as in the manual, and a generic log/run
<clacke[m]>obarun is new to me, cool
<yann-kaelig>clacke[m]: ok, me too. eric is a very nice guy and done a very good work. You can both share your knowledges , come to the forum or #obarun
<ng0>cbaines: thanks
<dustyweb>did everyone have fun at FOSDEM?
<efraim>I had a nice chat with the founder of pine64 at his booth, he wants to hear about getting GuixSD running on it and what else I may need or suggest
<dustyweb>efraim: hey cool :)
<Digit>ACTION woke too late, mistook what time fosdem was on / where it was, only caught a couple streamed talks, but, did have fun. :)
<amz3>one day is too short!
<Digit>well, there are 2 days. they are more jam packed than is sensible to try to catch everything. ... i tried that a few times... streaming/recording nearly all the rooms. n_n
<pkill9>i like that event slike FOSDEM are like a real life manifestation of the 'bazaar' [model] of free software
<efraim>I hung out in the packaging room most of the day
<efraim>haven't decided for tomorrow yet
<DoublePlusGood23>ng0: sneek: well that's good. Hopefully emjois don't kill this one :p
<sneek>Welcome back DoublePlusGood23, you have 3 messages.
<sneek>DoublePlusGood23, ng0 says: I'm afraid the gnunet bot is a written horror story.
<sneek>DoublePlusGood23, ng0 says: It is the plain Drupal 7 bot, integrated in Drupal
<sneek>DoublePlusGood23, ng0 says: We are moving away from it ;)
<DoublePlusGood23>snape: as far as I can tell the symlinks are valid. I'm using true FDE without GRUB so I just use libreboot to load the kernel, initrd etc directly.
<DoublePlusGood23>snape: they're really just a couple header files, I wouldn't even call them a library.
<Apteryx>hello! Is there anyway to put some function evaluated, pre-computed value into a package phase?
<Apteryx>s/anyway/any way/
<Apteryx>I thought about ungexp but we aren't using GEXPs for phases yet.
<Apteryx>I could import a bunch of stuff in the builder script, but that would be plan B.
<noobly>Hi, I'm seeking a nonfree distribution of GuixSD (unofficial of course). Does anyone know where I can find one? I'd like to run GuixSD over NixOS, but my hardware cannot support GuixSD currently
<mbakke>noobly: if you search around, you can find configuration examples for the vanilla kernel and firmware.
<bavier>noobly: would nixos not be handling much of the hardware things?
<Apteryx>noobly: I don't understand the question: both NixOS and GuixSD are operating systems, you can't run one on top of another.
<noobly>Apteryx: I meant 'over' as 'instead of'
<noobly>bavier: NixOS is nonfree by default, so it readily works with my hardware
<noobly>mbakke: thanks, found a github, but was hoping there might be a simply .iso I could download like Debian nonfree
<Apteryx>noobly: oh, I see. In this case mbakke answer's makes sense. Which part of your system isn't playing well with free software?
<noobly>Apteryx: I haven't actually tried to install guixSD, but I imagine I'd have trouble with a lot of stuff. It's a newer machine
<Apteryx>Well, it's worth trying it out. It might just work.
<pkill9>noobly: do you mean run guix package manager inside nixos?
<Apteryx>pkill9: no, he wants to replace NixOS with GuixSD
<noobly>Apteryx: I guess I'll try that first.. I'm skeptical though!
<pkill9>i think what you mainly want is to use vanilla Linux instead of linux-libre kernel
<Apteryx>noobly: let us know :)
<pkill9>oh mbakke already answered
<Apteryx>It's not much different than installing Debian. And Debian runs on a *lot* of machines out of the box.
<pkill9>i'd like to do that also
<pkill9>noobly: plz post if you find a good example
<noobly>thanks for the help, I'll report back in a bit. I'm hoping it works as making my own nonfree version sounds complicated :s
<Apteryx>noobly: not terribly so but it's more hassle. Hence my suggestion to just give it a spin to see the state of things at first.
<Apteryx>Good luck!
<noobly>Apteryx: I'll need it :^)
<Apteryx>I'm stuck: how can I make this work: it seems passing (guix packages) in #:modules doesn't work. I get: ERROR: no code for module (guix packages)
<Apteryx>sorry, the link:
<Apteryx>I think it's by design, according to section 7.4.2.
<Apteryx>but then I just found a use of evaluate-search-paths, defined in (guix search-paths) in the module (guix build profiles). Hmm.
<troydm>I just did guix pull and I'm trying to do guix system reconfigure and it says this:
<troydm>guix system: error: wrong number of arguments for action 'reconfigure'
<pkill9>what's the file system hierarchy of / in GuixSD out of interest?
<troydm>but according to man page guix system reconfigure doesn't has any arguments
<buenouanq>troydm: you have to give it the config.scm
<buenouanq>$ guix system reconfigure .../config.scm
<buenouanq>you're building a new os for yourself, if you don't give it an os definition, it has nothing to do/build
<troydm>buenouanq: ohh I get it, well it's not mentioned in GuixSD manual and I'm pretty much new to GuixSD
<buenouanq>we all are :3
<buenouanq>welcome to the future
<mbakke>troydm: feel free to file a bug report, manual improvements are very welcome :)
<yann-kaelig>I don't understand. On a foreign OS I installed guix package -i glibc-locales, next I tried to removed this package, so I done guix package -r glibc-locales and he start to download a package. Again I tried to removed this package and guix output "nothing to be done.
<yann-kaelig>So next i done a guix gc and again a guix package -r glibc-locales and he start to downloading a lot of package and end with "nothing to be done"
<yann-kaelig>Why guix need to download packages ?
<pkill9>i find that happens for me too yann-kaelig i think
<pkill9>i'm also running on a foreign os
<yann-kaelig>pkill9: hi, ok. it's strange, perhaps it's normal or not but I don't understand what's going on in fact
<troydm>well I've fired up guix system reconfigure /etc/config.scm and it's stuck, connected via other terminal system has minimal to zero cpu activity
<troydm>I have no idea, should I stop system reconfigure?
<troydm>ps -ef shows it's running
<troydm>I'm not sure what to do
<troydm>I think it's not doing anything as cpu 0% on almost all processes including .guix-real
<yann-kaelig>I have conflict now
<yann-kaelig>look like a conflict between glibc-locales and glibc
<Apteryx>yann-kaelig: I think because of grafts -- AFAICT, these are opportunistically applied to the packages (and their dependencies) being effected by a guix command. They serve to patch security issues.
<Apteryx>I've yet to really dig about how these work though, so feel free to do your own research.
<pkill9>relevant docs section:
<yann-kaelig>thx for the info
<yann-kaelig>well conflict is resolved after glibc was removed, I'm able to reinstall glibc-locales.
<pkill9>does the hydra build server(s) rebuild everything against the patched dependency and keep up a grafted version while it's doing so?
<yann-kaelig>previously I executed guix pull with the guix package -u, during this time I executed a guix gc, look liek I lost everything because a guix pull start everything as the first time and compile again
<Apteryx>pkill9: IIRC, grafts need to be undone and the dependency chain rebuilt with patched packages in the core-updates branch.
<Apteryx>I'm not sure though.
<pkill9>yann-kaelig: did it display a warning when you ran 'guix gc'? it displays a warnign for me when running a guix command while guix is already working on something
<yann-kaelig>pkill9: no warning with gc, specially but a warning if I forget to set and source the GUIX_PROFILE variable
<pkill9>yann-kaelig: and i would expect it would have removed those files, because only once guix-pull has compiled guix and finished making the derivation properly will it add a symlink to it to your profile
<pkill9>and the garbage collector removes anything that isn't tracked witha symlink (aka stuff that isn't used)
<yann-kaelig>pkill9: but I'm confused because for now I'm doing everything from the root user and I don't know if that's correct. Is the package installed from root available for all users ? Also what happend if I switch to a normal user and try to install the same package ?
<buenouanq>no, users have to install their own packages
<pkill9>it's not available for all users, however if you install that same package as another user it will add a symlink to the package
<buenouanq>unless it is in the os package declaration
<pkill9>it won't redownload/rebuild everything
<yann-kaelig>buenouanq: what do you mean by their own package? what are these packages and how to identify them with guix
<yann-kaelig>do you mean it's wrong to install package from the root ?
<yann-kaelig>This part of the documentation > > Step 8: Each user may need to perform a few additional steps to make their Guix environment ready for use, see Application Setup.
<Apteryx>are GuixSD services run as root unless otherwise specified?
<yann-kaelig>I understand this as, the root user + normal user may need to perform these additional steps
<pkill9>the user that is running the programs needs to install glibc-locales
<pkill9>although i installed them to root too so guix stop sthrowing errors about locale
<pkill9>specifically, guix-daemon
<yann-kaelig>pkill9: ok, so let say I want now to install xorg-server and next a simple window manager. Both programs can be installed from my normal user , am I right
<pkill9>yes, though if what youw ant is the window manager, you don't need to also install xorg-server because that will be a dependency for the window manager so that will be installed automatically
<buenouanq>yann-kaelig: other users will not have access to packages installed by other users, including root
<pkill9>and you typically want to avoid explicitely installing dpeendencies because.. i'm not sure exactly why lol
<buenouanq>if you want something available to all users, you have to declare it in your config.scm
<pkill9>yann-kaelig: are you running on a foreign distro or GuixSD?
<yann-kaelig>buenouanq: ok, I understand , is it possible to do this with a foreign OS ?
<yann-kaelig>pkill9: foreign distro
<buenouanq>oh, you mean using guix on something else, not guixsd
<buenouanq>i'm not sure there's any way to make something globally available with just guix, each user will have to install it themselves
<buenouanq>but I've never used guix outside of guixsd so I really don't know
<yann-kaelig>ok, thx
<pkill9>i think you could set certain environment variables in /etc/profile.d/
<pkill9>oh wait
<pkill9>just add to the path to root's ~/.guix-profile/bin
<yann-kaelig>for my curiosity is GuixSD able to manage all GPU driver include the proprietary as nvidia ?
<pkill9>so in e.g. /etc/profile.d/ add something like `export PATH=$PATH${PATH:+:}/var/guix/profiles/per-user/root/guix-profile/bin`
<yann-kaelig>ha! yes I see that line before but I don't understood the purpose
<pkill9>then all user's will have that in their $PATH so they can run it in their command line
<pkill9>so basically when you run in your shell 'ls', the shell will look in the directories listed in the $PATH environment variable for a file called 'ls'
<pkill9>and execute it
<buenouanq>yann-kaelig: GuixSD is dedicated to free software - You can make it do/run/install other things like that, but you won't find any official support.
<yann-kaelig>buenouanq: I understand, thx
<yann-kaelig>pkill9: thx, I take a note. I need to look again at all of that. Everything is new for me, but it's very interesting
<troydm>how do I remove old system generation?
<yann-kaelig>I created, test, and installed the PKGBUILD for my s6 init OS. That work well
<yann-kaelig>ths guix deamon
<yann-kaelig>still a little bit of time to become familiar with guix and I'm sure I'll never go back to all those old methods
<yann-kaelig>I wonder why the hash is at the begining of the package name and not like that the pkgname-version-hash. And the fact that the hash is visible in the file name brings something? why not hide this part to make it available via guix command line ?
<pkill9>that's to make it easy to select the specific hash with tab complete
<pkill9>they explained that somewehre, can't rememebr where
<pkill9>might be on the nix website
<yann-kaelig>in this case does the positioning of the hash matter, visually this hash for a human like me is gibberish and I first look for the name and version of the package which is more difficult here to see
<pkill9>you typically don't look in the store though
<pkill9>i guess you do actually, nevermind
<yann-kaelig>pkill9: in fact i'm not looking inside the store but during all the guix works as, downloading , building , installing, because I usually monitor the progress of events, i'm doing the same thing here, and it's a little bit more difficult because there are a lot of infornations