IRC channel logs

<nekroze>hello, I am taking the weekend to try switching to guixsd, so far it has been great. Just having some trouble using enlightnment wm as the locker it uses is not accepting my password so I get locked out. From the docs I thought I would need to define (screen-locker-service enlightenment) but that does not solve the problem, what have I missed?

<nekroze>does guixsd have something like https://nixos.org/nixos/options.html where I can search for defined serivces? so far I have been using the docs and trying to guess what category of services the service I am looking for might be but this fails me often

<Apteryx>nekroze: have you tried searching in the info manual of guix using C-s?

<Apteryx>or finding an index using 'i'

<nekroze>no, I thought that info manual was only in the install disk, how can I bring it up post install?

<nekroze>Apteryx: nvm, I guessed it $ info guix

<nekroze>Apteryx: thanks

<Apteryx>or, from inside Emacs: C-h i m guix ENT

<Apteryx>:)

<nekroze>anyone here running enlightenment wm with guixsd?

<nekroze>I will try i3 then, enlightenment does not seem ready on guixsd. thanks all

<emsyr>nekroze: I'm trying to set up a desktop environment. I haven't tried enlightenment yet. As you see above I'm working on xorg-server.

<PotentialUser-85>Hello, does anyone know how to create a mirror of the guix packages?

<fqness>▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ LRH IS LIVE NOW!! TODAYS EDITION SLIMER GETS FUCKED IN VEGAS!! https://www.youtube.com/user/l0de/live CALL 315-505-4666 vvdonsst: MatthewAllan93 benny wagaf ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄

<buenouanq>guix pull on my BBB has been running for more than 20 hours and is only at 75.8%

<buenouanq>it's been held up there for a while now

<buenouanq>top and ps show guix and guile chugging away, but I get worried when the number hasn't changed in a long time

<buenouanq>oh good, just pushed over to 75.9%

<efraim>sneek seems to be MIA

<efraim>it appearse kuiserver is part of kde-runtime, which I don't think we have packaged yet

<efraim>no, it looks like it should be plasma-workspace

<civodul>Hello Guix!

<mbakke>Too much botsnack, probably.

<mbakke>Sup civodul.

<amz3>sneek is down for some time

<amz3>I prepared my trip to fosdem

<shiranaihito>so if i did "guix pull" every day.. how long should i expect each call to take?

<shiranaihito>i think i did one yesterday, and now it's taken a loong time again

<amz3>it always take "a long time"

<shiranaihito>amz3 why? i mean.. almost nothing should have changed, right?

<amz3>shiranaihito: guix pull doesn't download all the changes since last time, but what takes time is the compilation process i think

<amz3>s/doesn't/does/

<amz3>and compilation process recompiles everything

<shiranaihito>amz3 huh? it recompiles everything even if nothing has changed?

<amz3>shiranaihito: if nothing have changed, i don't know what happens

<shiranaihito>but let's say "one thing" has changed.. why would that result in everything getting recompiled? besides.. why is it compiling anything anyway instead of using "substitutes" (binaries?)?

<amz3>shiranaihito: it's the "package index" that is recompiled

<shiranaihito>amz3 what does that mean in practice? :)

<amz3>I mean the package recipes are compilled

<shiranaihito>is that like "metadata on packages"?

<amz3>no, the actual recipes are compiled

<shiranaihito>well what's a recipe?

<amz3>to avoid to compile them later

<amz3>recipe = a package definition

<shiranaihito>and why/how does a package definition need re-compiling?

<shiranaihito>if it hasn't changed?

<amz3>I am not sure what is the algorithm taken, my guess is that the procedure that compiles package definition doesn't know which package changed and which did not

<amz3>so it compiles everything all the time

<shiranaihito>amz3 but .. everything is hashed? :)

<amz3>no

<amz3>package defintions are guile modules, guile modules need to be compiled before using them

<shiranaihito>i thought hashing was a large part of Guix's magic

<shiranaihito>but they could be hashed too, to detect changes?

<amz3>sort of yes

<amz3>like I said, I don't know the exact algorithm that is used for the compilation process during guix pull

<shiranaihito>:)

<shiranaihito>so something like.. we don't know why the package definitions aren't hashed just like everything(?) else, so that changes to them could be detected and needless compilation avoided? :P

<amz3>I look for the guix pull code and see what happens

<mbakke>shiranaihito: There is work in progress to make `guix pull` smarter: https://bugs.gnu.org/27284

<mbakke>Currently, it will build all of Guix every time.

<shiranaihito>mbakke yeah, i got out of memory errors too :)

<shiranaihito>mbakke but at least something is being done about it, which is nice :)

<mbakke>shiranaihito: There is a "wip-guix-pull" branch if you would like to get your hands dirty :)

<shiranaihito>mbakke i don't have the skills or time :/

<shiranaihito>i wish Guix used Clojure's syntax for everything though.. after you're used to Clojure, other Lisps tend to start looking kind of clunky

<civodul>shiranaihito: what syntax?

<shiranaihito>civodul Clojure's?

<shiranaihito>for example square brackets are used for "vector" (~sequence) literals

<civodul>ok but what do you have in mind specifically? :-)

<civodul>ah, ok

<shiranaihito>it makes everything clearer right off the bat, but i'm sure there's other stuff i just can't think of now

<civodul>we don't use vectors much though ;-)

<civodul>but yeah, i see what you mean

<shiranaihito>well, the general idea is just to be able to introduce a sequence literal :)

<shiranaihito>without calling "list

<shiranaihito>"

<shiranaihito>etc

<shiranaihito>.. let alone something more "archaic" like "cons" :)

<shiranaihito>Clojure is pretty fucking ingenious overall

<shiranaihito>lovely

<catonano>shiranaihito: I love Clojure, I came to Guix through clojure. But I'd be wary of messing with Scheme syntax. I'd rather attempt to port Cloure on Guile ;-)

<catonano>I'd like to try with calling (vector... every time. Sooner or later I'll write some signifficant amount of Guile code

<catonano>In my dreams, Clojure on Guile couuld call Guile schheme code the same way as Clojure on the vm can call Java code

<catonano>ok, I rambled enough ;-)

<catonano>forgive my typos, my keyboard... :-/

<shiranaihito>catonano i've sometimes thought of cobbling together some kind of macro that would let me write Guix stuff in a little bit more Clojurey way :)

<shiranaihito>them brackets.. :p

<catonano>ah maps :-)

<catonano>ahh no, I read braces (curly) ;-)

<shiranaihito>but it's a big hurdle to cross to do any kind of Guix development - so much to learn, and i'm just trying to be an end-user

<shiranaihito>:)

<shiranaihito>yeah, the map syntax would be nice too

<shiranaihito>and yeah.. it would be even nicer if Guile became a "target" for Clojure :)

<shiranaihito>(like Java)

<catonano>shiranaihito: guix is a thing per se. Usually it requires system stuff related kknowledge to a great extent

<shiranaihito>catonano yep, which i don't have

<catonano>As far as I understand, there's a license incompatibility between the Cloure license and the Gpl, so I think someone on the GNU side should work for porting Clojure on top of Guile

<catonano>shiranaihito: weel I strggle with systems too

<catonano>a lot

<shiranaihito>oh?

<catonano>it takes me an awful lot of time to do simple things

<shiranaihito>:)

<catonano>currently I'm using a virtual machine to test my Tryton service. Yesterday it ended up containing the previous version of Tryton :-/

<shiranaihito>ouch :/

<catonano>I gc'd and make distcleaned, renovated all I could renovate

<catonano>ifnally I could have a new virtual machine containing the righht version of Tryton

<catonano>that's jjuust an example of naive errors I do

<catonano>Now Trytond attempts to connect to the wrong db, rather than postgres. This usually happens when the conf file can't be read. So I have to manually launch it in the virtual machine to see exactly what's the problem. It could also be that the python-postgres library should be propagated (propagated-inputs)

<shiranaihito>well, you can be i'd be even more "naive" :)

<catonano>for now I'm hhaving my post lunch nap :-)

<shiranaihito>:p

<shiranaihito>what might this mean: "error: extraneous field initializers (https-port)"? i've got "(https-port 443)" in a "nginx-server-configuration"

<shiranaihito>well, i removed "(https-port 443)" from my config and guix started doing its thing

<shiranaihito>it would be nice if a group could be configured for the "nginx" user in the service definition or something

<shiranaihito>then you could give it access to a directory through the user group, etc

<amz3>what is the [m] string people use in their username, what does it mean?

<shiranaihito>no idea

<mbakke>amz3: IRC bridges for matrix.org servers add a [m] suffix to the Matrix username.

<amz3>tx

<shiranaihito>apparently "monit" is also distributed as a binary - where would i put it in GuixSD?

<shiranaihito>(so like, is there a convention for handling distasteful binary blobs that just need to be somewhere despite being distasteful? :P)

<az`>hi there guixers!

<az`>anybody use qemu-kvm in guixsd?

<emsyr>az: in guixsd or for guixsd?

<az`>@emsyr: qemu-kvm running under guixsd

<amz3>what is the actual question?

<amz3>asking who use a particular software, is not a constructive question usually

<amz3>except if you do a survey

<adfeno>Hi #guix! How do we download only a graft and inspect or change its contents?

<mbakke>I think the problem with elogind 234 is that it may get started by D-Bus before Shepherd gets the chance.

<civodul>mbakke: how's that possible?

<civodul>adfeno: see the 'replacement' field of the package of interest

<ng0>sneek, come back. hrmph. so what are the remaining problems with Enlightenment? I'd prefer if people would open bugs and not just rant and leave.

<adfeno>ng0: +1 feel the same also for Trisquel ;)

<adfeno>ng0: Don't worry, my last message was just a random note, not being picky on anyone.

<ng0>Oh.. yeah. Would people prefer it if I filed bug(s) for what's still left to do in Mate?

<ng0>adfeno: np

<ng0>also: can we do anything about https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=i915%20intel_cpu_fifo_underrun_irq_handler&list_id=579081 ? I've had this for the 8 months (flickeirg screen, color glicthes, multiple shutdonws per day etc), and its an upstream issue I only found out about some days ago, before that I assumed my laptop was more broken than the obvious hardware issues I have

<ng0>I'll be looking into nightly kernels etc, but that'S beyond what we could offer in Guix upstream, and also how to address this.. I'm sure it's not just 2 people here in Guix who are affected by this. I simply thought my hw was broken and did not report it.

<ng0>seems upstream'ish to me.. but idk

<ng0>people could assume it's our fault

<ng0>actually, it *is* upstream. but, how do we deal with such bugs?

<adfeno>ng0: Could you summarize what is the status of all this glitches, is there a plan from upstream to fix these, a solution or work around from them? Or neither we nor upstream has solutions or workarounds?

<ng0>idk, trying to figure out in the next weeks.

<happy_gnu[m]>Hi

<happy_gnu[m]>Can a .rpm or a .deb be installed through guix?

<amz3>no

<happy_gnu[m]>I remember reading something like that but I am not sure if it was guix or pacman

<amz3>prlly pacman

<happy_gnu[m]>Oh :/

<happy_gnu[m]>That is bad

<amz3>hey you can make a patch

<happy_gnu[m]>Unfortunately my printer only has a .deb or a .rpm

<amz3>are you sure generic driver isn't good enough?

<happy_gnu[m]>Printer: Epson L300 Series | OpenPrinting - The Linux Foundation - https://www.openprinting.org/printer/Epson/Epson-L300_Series

<adfeno>civodul: Thank you very much for the information about how to get the grafts ;)

<amz3>happy_gnu[m]: forget about it, it's not completly free

<happy_gnu[m]>amz3: so I should just buy a different printer hahaha

<ng0>this java thread is getting to worrying lengths for my inbox view of mail :D

<ng0>is it still about the subject?

<amz3>on guix-devel?

<ng0>yes

<ng0>switch to java-8 per default

<amz3>oh

<amz3>looks like texlive is out of the build farm :(

<amz3>I have to download all the thing, it's not compiling

<amz3>s/not/now/

<efraim>does anyone have a plasma-workspace package definition? apparently I need the kuiserver binary from it :/

<bavier1>hello Guix!

<amz3>o/

<efraim>Oh good telnet is in the base system, I would have nothing to do while waiting for compiling to happen

<efraim>On my Mac I have to drop to TTY when compiling or it freezes up

<rekado>efraim: telnet nyancat.dakko.us ?

<efraim>telnet termcast.org

<manumanumanu>Does guix configure how to load libraries? guile (from guix) doesn't seem to honour /etc/ld.so.conf (nor does guile by default try to load libraries from my ~/.guix-profile/lib

<manumanumanu>should I configure this myself in some way?

<alezost>manumanumanu: if you try to compile something, make sure you install "gcc-toolchain" package (not "gcc")

<str1ngs>^

<alezost>manumanumanu: actually, I don't know what you are asking about :-)

<str1ngs>based on what he said I think you gave the right answer

<manumanumanu>alezost: I am trying to dynamicly load a library in guile, but it doesn't work

<manumanumanu>I'll try that

<manumanumanu>(sorry, I don't know the lingo :) )

<civodul>manumanumanu: Guix' libc doesn't honor ld.so.conf, indeed

<civodul>so you'll have to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH or similar for 'dynamic-link' to find your lib

<amz3>ah!

<manumanumanu>civodul: that's why :D thanks

<civodul>yw :-)

<marusich>civodul, do you know anything about https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=24841

<manumanumanu>civodul: oh, but not globally since that makes some programmes sad :)

<manumanumanu>vim core dumped since it tried to load something from guix instead of the regular place

<str1ngs>manumanumanu: are you using guixsd?

<str1ngs>setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH on foreign distro will probably break things

<civodul>heya marusich

<marusich>Hi!

<civodul>marusich: i haven't investigated yet!

<marusich>A fair answer :)

<manumanumanu>str1ngs: I probably should be. Currently I am on ubuntu and it really breaks things :)

<civodul>marusich: so any findings you may have is welcome ;-)

<str1ngs>manumanumanu: maybe set use setenv in your scheme script for now

<str1ngs>err just use*

<str1ngs>dunno if that will work, but it might help if it does

<manumanumanu>str1ngs: you are clearly smarter than me. That is probably the simplest solution

<str1ngs>it's not as portable though

<marusich>civodul, in general, if one wants to port Guix to a new platform, is it necessary to build the bootstrap binaries? Can one cross-build guix itself without cross-building bootstrap-tarballs, or is cross-building bootstrap-tarballs a necessary part of cross-building guix?

<str1ngs>manumanumanu: alternatively you could do LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/path/to guile script.scm

<str1ngs>manumanumanu: that might cause uses with guile though

<manumanumanu>str1ngs: nono, guile is installed through guix

<str1ngs>then that should work fine

<str1ngs>... I hope/think :P

<manumanumanu>I just don't understand why it doesn't look for libsodium in my .guix-profile/lib

<manumanumanu>but I can probably fix it

<str1ngs>gcc-toolchain generally handles that . but dynamic-link is sort special

<manumanumanu>I sort of got that :)

<str1ngs>dynamic-link IIRC searches known paths for .so files

<str1ngs>and it uses FFI?

<str1ngs>I've only used it couple times myself. was kinda fun though :)

<manumanumanu>str1ngs: yeah. it uses libffi iirc, and is quite nice to work with, although A bit low-level

<manumanumanu>hmmm. I could probably get things done in guixSD. I only even need emacs, weechat and a web browser

<marusich>civodul, the reason I ask is because I was hoping to maybe port Guix to another platform, and I ran into an issue similar to https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=24841 when cross-building the bootstrap-tarballs. I didn't know of any other way to port Guix to a new platform (since I've never done it before), which is why I updated the bug to see if anyone knew what the problem might be. However, if there is another way to port Guix

<marusich>without cross-building the bootstrap-tarballs, then I would be un-blocked. So I'm wondering if maybe there's another way to port Guix without cross-building the bootstrap-tarballs. But I think the answer is "you must cross-build bootstrap-tarballs at some point first"?

<str1ngs>generally bootstrapping requires cross compilation, even if you are targeting the same architecture

<marusich>Could one conceivably build Guix from source using system software not deployed via Guix?

<marusich>For example, if you have a system on a new platform that runs some linux distro, and you use that distro to build Guix from source.

<str1ngs>marusich: yes

<marusich>Would doing that also build the bootstrap binaries at the same time?

<str1ngs>provided you have the prerequisites

<marusich>I thought that part of the Makefile logic for Guix involved downloading pre-built bootstrap binaries; is that not true?

<str1ngs>no it would not build the bootstrap binaries

<str1ngs>building guix is not the sames as using guix build and the store

<marusich>Right, but if bootstrap binaries don't exist for the new system platform, would you even be able to run "make" successfully?

<str1ngs>yes, provided gcc/guile supported that platform

<str1ngs>for example I have built guix for power8 . there are no power8 package bootstrap binaries

<marusich>Are you saying that running "make" would build Guix, but you wouldn't then be able to use that Guix to build anything because it lacks bootstrap binaries?

<str1ngs>pretty much, but you could then bootstrap from there

<marusich>My understanding was that invoking "make" in Guix's source tree downloaded pre-built bootstrap binaries as part of its build process.

<marusich>I might be mistaken, though

<marusich>How could you bootstrap from there?

<str1ngs> https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/html_node/Bootstrapping.html

<marusich>I have read that section multiple times.

<marusich>Does it not say that the bootstrap binanries are included in the source distribution?

<marusich>"This gets stored in the guile-2.0.7.tar.xz tarball shown in this graph. This tarball is part of Guix’s “source” distribution, and gets inserted into the store with add-to-store (see The Store)."

<marusich>So, if someone hasn't included bootstrap binaries for architecture foo, then when I go and try to build Guix from source on architecture foo using a generic GNU/Linux distribution, won't it be impossible to successfully build Guix on that system (since it lacks bootstrap binaries for the foo architecture)?

<marusich>Are you just saying that I should build the bootstrap binaries on the foo architecture, and then add them to the Guix source, and then build Guix? That would make more sense to me.

<str1ngs>I think guix build bootstrap-tarballs handles that

<marusich>Assuming you have guix

<marusich>In this hypothetical situation, Guix isn't installed yet, so we can't build with it.

<str1ngs>I'm not familiar with guix autotools config in regards to the bootstrap binaries

<marusich>All in all, even if this is a viable approach, it's entirely possible that it's going to be more painful than just fixing https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=24841

<str1ngs>I think --with-courage could work around unsupported archs

<str1ngs>what arch are you porting to?

<marusich>I'm not super familiar with Guix's build logic, either, which is why I'm hoping to get another opinion about whether or not https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=24841 will totally prevent me from realistically porting to a new architecture

<str1ngs>even with --no-grafts?

<marusich>Even with no-grafts

<marusich>(see latest correspondence in the bug)

<marusich>I'm going to go grab some coffee for a while, but if anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears.

<str1ngs>marusich: I'm reading it's allot of text

<str1ngs>marusich: I don't have enough experience bootstrapping, I'd wait for other that understand the process to comment on your bug report

<efraim>marusich: when I was working on bootstrapping aarch64 i was working mostly from core-updates

<efraim>the short answer is that you have to be able to build the bootstrap binaries, and then you can use those to bootstrap a new architecture

<str1ngs>marusich: also, you might be right about needing bootstrap binaries. I thought I built guix on power8 . I was mistaken

<marusich>I see - thank you for confirming my understanding. I guess there might be ways to port Guix even if https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=24841 is unresolved.

<marusich>Although, who knows if that would be easier than fixing https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=24841

<str1ngs>marusich: I'm still testing on power8 if guix build without bootstrap binaries. just going to take get build prereqs

<str1ngs>take awhile*

<marusich>Cool - I'd love to hear how it goes!

<str1ngs>I don't have root access on this machine. so best can do is build guix

<str1ngs>it does 150 cores which is interesting

<str1ngs>CPU(s): 160

<vagrantc>and enough ram to make use of them all simultaneously?

<efraim>is it powerpc-linux-gnu for mac powerpc and for power8+?

<str1ngs>vagrantc: 252GB of ram

<str1ngs>no it's ibm power8 or ppc64le

<vagrantc>that ought to do. :)

<vagrantc>a lot of cache, too, from what i hear

<str1ngs>it's not 160 logic cores though. it has some sorta hyper threading tech

<linuxuser>Hello, I cannot log into gnome if there are supplementary groups declared in my config, anyone knows what could be causing this?

<str1ngs>linuxuser: what groups do you have

<str1ngs>for supplementary groups

<linuxuser>I had wheel audio and video

<linuxuser>I get to the login screen and after entering my password it says logging in and crashes after some time

<linuxuser>Couldnt find anything in xorg logs

<linuxuser>Now I just have wheel

<str1ngs>can you login with VT? like Ctrl+Alt+F2

<linuxuser>Yes

<linuxuser>Root can also log into gnome

<str1ngs>I have wheel netdev audio video

<str1ngs>and I can login ok

<linuxuser>I used to have netdef too

<linuxuser>Did you update recently?

<str1ngs>I don't use gnome really

<linuxuser>Hmm

<str1ngs>so if you only have wheel you can login?

<linuxuser>I'll check whether xfce has the same problem

<linuxuser>No

<str1ngs>did this just start happening?

<linuxuser>I can only log in if I don't specify supplementary groups

<linuxuser>Yes, it just started, I reinstalled guixsd but still the same

<str1ngs>ah, weird

<str1ngs>has it ever word?

<str1ngs>err worked*

<linuxuser>Yes, until like 2 days ago

<linuxuser>Ill skim through the commits if there have been any changes with users

<str1ngs>linuxuser: do have a primary group?

<linuxuser>It's just users

<linuxuser>The thing is I really want to be in wheel

<str1ngs>users is fine

<linuxuser>Is it a problem if I replace users with wheel?

<str1ngs>possibly

<str1ngs>if your using users now I would keep it that way, till you get this resolved

<str1ngs>linuxuser: what does $ groups output?

<linuxuser>So on the config with which I can't log in (with supplementary groups audio wheel) it returns users audio wheel

<linuxuser>I can also use sudo to perform root actions

<str1ngs>hmm maybe you need video group?

<str1ngs>I would have atleast wheel netdev audio video

<linuxuser>Why can I login without any supplementary groups though?

<str1ngs>It probably defaults to certain groups. I'd have to check

<str1ngs>nope default is empty

<str1ngs>are you adding %base-user-accounts?

<str1ngs>actually that might not be a factor

<linuxuser>Yes is am

<linuxuser>Just fixed it by deleting my home folder

<linuxuser>Maybe there were some file permission errors

<linuxuser>Thanks for the help!

<str1ngs>hmm that sounds like the case

<str1ngs>linuxuser: did you run any X programs as root?

<linuxuser>Might have done that

<linuxuser>Do you know where a failure like this would be logged?

<linuxuser>With other distros I always used jounalctl

<str1ngs>maybe in ~/.xsession-errors or ~/.local/share/xorg/

<str1ngs>not familiar enough with how guix logs xsessions

<str1ngs>linuxuser: if it happens again do find $HOME -u root

<linuxuser>What does that do?

<str1ngs>that will list and files owned by root

<str1ngs>generally running an X program with sudo can cause a $HOME permissions issues

<str1ngs>issue*

IRC channel logs

2018-01-07.log