IRC channel logs

<happy_gnu[m]> 10 (primitive-load "/gnu/store/vir3lrwqy50pr8fkaf3m091dgbr?")

<happy_gnu[m]>ice-9/boot-9.scm:760:25: In procedure struct_vtable: Wrong type argument in position 1 (expecting struct): #<pointer 0x0>

<mb[m]1>happy_gnu: is the error consistent? Approximately when in the process does this happen?

<mb[m]1>Also, what is your current `guix --version`?

<taohansen>update to latest GuixSD has murdered my TearFree solution

<happy_gnu[m]>mb: This is the versionguix (GNU Guix) 20171107.18

<happy_gnu[m]>the error happens every time

<happy_gnu[m]>as soon as I do guix pull

<happy_gnu[m]>Updating from Git repository at 'https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix.git'...

<happy_gnu[m]>Backtrace:

<happy_gnu[m]> 10 (primitive-load "/gnu/store/vir3lrwqy50pr8fkaf3m091dgbr?")

<Apteryx>It seems berlin is to its knees; 44 kB/s download

<brendyn>I've never seen it go faster than that

<Apteryx>Really? I routinely reached 1.2-1.7 MB/s with it, and I'm the other side of the Atlantic

<brendyn>I'm at the bottom of Australia

<Apteryx>I see.

<brendyn>What kind of computer/specs is required to run a build server?

<g_bor>Hello guix!

<janneke>hi g_bor!

<g_bor>Do you know about the status of core-updates?

<g_bor>:) I just set up my first guixsd 14...

<g_bor>It also seems, that I will have some time soon to look at the libtool patch for ddc. What I would like to ask about that, is how can we specify the libtool used by the build system?

<g_bor>I never wanted to that before...

<g_bor>The new webpage is nice, and it now works for me without problems. Thanks for all who was involved in that.

<castilma>hey, i want to update guix (on guixsd) using a chroot. guix pull fails with <https://pastebin.com/Cw01J2pj>. The last message means Invalid argument.

<castilma>(there are guix-daemon messages inbetween, since I started it in the shell.) can't chrooted programs use chroot again?

<castilma>guess i have to start the daemon with --disable-chroot

<g_bor>Should gnupg depend on pinentry?

<g_bor>I got an error using gpg in guixsd that there's no pinentry.

<ng0>do you have pinentry installed?

<ng0>one of the things we haven't documented is that you have to add the path to your pinentry to one of the config files in gpg

<ng0>for current gpg that would be in $home/.gnupg/gpg-agent.conf:

<ng0>pinentry-program /home/user/.guix-profile/bin/pinentry

<g_bor>nice, thanks.

<ng0>guile-wm has some rough edges. I've been using it for a week now. For example: it managed to crash libreoffice when I wanted to save. Occasionally it still crashes, but I think the crash rate on 'wrong key combination' has been reduced.

<ng0>so it's good, but I think I really need to get involved to fix it for me.

<ng0>*myself

<ng0>the docs are super basic. I think there's an option to keep applications always on top, but I'm not sure (didn't read into it very much so far). like xbattmon only makes sense when it stays on top. I have my tmux config etc wit battery scripts, so it's not a problem

<g_bor>Is there any reason why pinentry is not a propagated input of gnupg?

<ng0>I think no operating system does this

<ng0>at some point we'll need to rewrite the documentation, and also add something like "non-obvious applications tweaks for people using Guix/GuixSD"

<OriansJ>ng0: tiling window manager to provide that functionality?

<ng0>what?

<ng0>the sentence makes no sense, I can't understand the question. Could you write a whole sentence again?

<OriansJ>ng0: to your previous no operating system does this statement, which appeared to do with the keeping of applications always on top. Tiling window manager should be able to provide that functionality

<ng0>I switched topics

<ng0>I replied to gbor after the pinentry question

<OriansJ>Oh, my bad

<g_bor>Ok, thanks for clarification. I think I will raise this issue on devel, and see what comes out of the discussion.

<ng0>is the 'version' in the directive files for GNU a fixed version as noted in info: prep, so just "1.2"?

<hulten>Hi, I just created a bootable USB stick with GuixSD 0.14. I find the partition table puzzling.

<hulten> https://thepasteb.in/p/JZhpw74zD9nCg

<hulten>I don't understand what the first and fourth partition are or do (cannot mount them).

<hulten>The third one contains the actual installation files.

<hulten>Is this normal? (For the GuixSD 0.13 USB image, there were two partitions with EFI as the first partition and the installation files on the second.)

<cbaines>hulten, assuming you've downloaded the released image, the image for 0.14.0 will work on a DVD, as well as a USB stick

<cbaines>I'm guessing that the partition table differences are from that

<ng0>shouldn't the anonymous ftp of gnu.org work when my key is registered in the system? I log in via ftp and passive mode, but I'm getting errors. how do you upload files to the ftp?

<shiranaihito>is a system config supposed to contain definitions for all file systems, even though the installation instructions go through creating some with the fdisk command?

<shiranaihito>i.e., the filesystems are there already

<jaidmin>are there any examples on how to use the trivial build system? im no scheme expert, and I just want to write a package which downloads a tarball and unpacks it. no building needed (since its a binary)

<shiranaihito>.. and where does the value for "%base-file-systems" come from? :). (what's in it?)

<shiranaihito>i wish Guix used Clojure's syntax for everything :P

<shiranaihito>but i guess it's all plain Guile?

<shiranaihito>i mean "plain" in the sense that there's nothing exotic added to Guile's syntax

<cbaines>shiranaihito, the file systems in the system config are used in creating the fstab

<shiranaihito>cbaines ok, and what's that? :)

<cbaines>I don't know the details, but once you've installed GuixSD, you'll have /etc/fstab which contains details on the filesystems

<shiranaihito>i'm wondering for example if the file systems from the config will override any file systems i've created manually before applying the system config

<shiranaihito>ok

<cbaines>The description of the operating system contains file systems, but I think this is mostly about using file systems, and not about creating them

<shiranaihito>i also wonder if overwriting filesystem from a system config application would even make sense.. presumably you'll have some data under the file systems that you wouldn't want a system reconfiguration to destroy

<cbaines>so no, I don't think changing the file systems in your system config will change the file systems themselves

<shiranaihito>cbaines ok, yeah, that sounds "better" :)

<cbaines>as for %base-file-systems, that's part of guix

<cbaines>it's defined in gnu/system/file-systems.scm

<shiranaihito>i guess "cons*" creates a list with as many elements as it gets arguments? .. but plain old "cons" takes an element and "the rest of the list", right?

<shiranaihito>hmhm ok

<cbaines>Yep, e.g. (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 '())) = (cons* 1 2 3 '())

<ng0>"fixed" it by using gnupload :/

<cbaines>jaidmin, there are some examples in guix, have you looked in gnu/packages?

<shiranaihito>cbaines ok, cool.. writing something in a Lisp that is not Clojure kind of bugs me though :)

<shiranaihito>oh well

<cbaines>what are you finding difficult?

<cbaines>I've never used Clojure

<shiranaihito>cbaines i'm just used to Clojure, and its syntax is neater and cleaner, for example because square brackets are used too

<shiranaihito>and clojure supports literals for lists, vectors, maps and sets

<shiranaihito>it's a truly lovely language

<shiranaihito>extremely well designed

<shiranaihito>oh, and i have a plugin for IntelliJ IDEA (which i use for all coding needs) that supports Clojure specifically, so.. :x

<shiranaihito>for Guile, i guess there's only emacs

<shiranaihito>cbaines is "%" some kind of "splicing operator" btw?

<cbaines>I don't think so, splicing can be done with lists by using ,@ so `(1 2 ,@'(3 4) 5)

<shiranaihito>cbaines so does cons* "flatten" any list it receives into the list it returns?

<cbaines>no, for that, you might want to use append

<shiranaihito>cbaines ok :). btw, is it important to add any user to the "users" group?

<shiranaihito>the example file says "wheel" makes a user a sudoer, so that's good, but .. does "users" have some special significance like that?

<cbaines>I'm not sure, I've never tried without it

<shiranaihito>ok

<shiranaihito>cbaines check out Clojure if you haven't btw :) and listen to some talks by its original author, Rich Hickey - he's a genius

<ng0>yeah, I kinda want to fix up Clojure here (somehow integrate what Leiningen does).. but I still hope someone with Clojure experience takes on this. it's not impossible, but I need to read into Clojure build systems first.

<shiranaihito>ng0 "fix up"?

<ng0>last time I looked into it our clojure packages (that is, above clojure itself) were missing something that would make it easier to work with them

<ng0>long time ago

<shiranaihito>ng0 well, this reminds me of guix containing some java packages.. which i'm not sure is a good idea

<ng0>uh... what

<shiranaihito>yeah :)

<ng0>I mean, why

<ng0>why do you think this is a bad idea?

<shiranaihito>well, since i'm new to guix, i may be just confused about what's going on

<ng0>probably

<shiranaihito>but it seems to me that guix can be used to install java-specific packages

<shiranaihito>and i just don't see why those would be "guix's problem" instead of java app authors'

<ng0>yes, because guix is not language centric. I mean, why do you regard the packages as "problems"?

<shiranaihito>there's a shit-ton of largely pointless libs being hauled around by pretty much every java app out there.. i'd recommend staying away from that mess :)

<ng0>as long as it is under Free Software licenses it can be uncluded.

<shiranaihito>yeah, but there are way too many programming language specific packages for guix to include, right? so why not just leave them out completely, especially since it's an unnecessary burden anyway, since apps are supposed to handle/contain their own deps to work correctly .. right?

<shiranaihito>for example, i'll be running a clojure app on guixsd, but it'll be deployed as an "uberjar", which is a big fat Java JAR file that contains all the app's Java library dependencies by itself

<shiranaihito>so it's a bit like a "stand-alone version"

<ng0>I think you should either ask people around here or read into the motivations and goals behind Guix. I need to take care of something now, I can't answer those questions

<shiranaihito>ng0 um.. ok? :) but this seems like a discussion worth having

<ng0>I don't mean to be rude or disrespect, it's just that I read some confusion at your side.

<shiranaihito>every language has its own package manager anyway these days, right? :)

<shiranaihito>ng0 well, maybe you could reduce my confusion by talking to me and explaining things, instead of bowing out and implying i'm completely missing something? :)

<ng0>sorry, I really have to do some cleaning around the house

<shiranaihito>:P

<shiranaihito>cya later then

<hulten>@cbaines: Yes, thanks, it is probably indeed fine; GPT/MBR partitioning is weird, esp. maybe if you want to make it bootable on different systems from different media. Anyway, the 0.14.0 download checks out with PGP, and it boots and installs.

<efraim>shiranaihito: the short version is that an "uberjar" is not source code and also likely has bugs and vulnerabilities in their bundled dependencies that may have been patched by their upstream authors and never updated since being pulled into the uberjar.

<efraim>Guix builds packages from source

<shiranaihito>efraim that sounds confusing.. are you planning to include absolutely every single library in existence, as sources?

<shiranaihito>.. or just "the most common ones", whatever that might mean in practice? .. and to what end?

<efraim>We generally package libraries as they're needed for building other software we include

<shiranaihito>efraim ok, well that sounds more sensible

<shiranaihito>so any java libs included are a "system level thing"? :)

<shiranaihito>.. and users of guixsd aren't supposed to pay attention to them?

<efraim>They're not hidden per se, but I'm not sure how much use they are on their own

<shiranaihito>efraim yep

<efraim>well that was suprising, qtbase-5.10.0 failed to build

<tilpner>I wanted to try GuixSD, so I started to install it on an old i686 netbook. The guix system init ran for 5 hours and died. How is the Hydra coverage for i686? Is it supposed to GUILECC everything?

<shiranaihito>efraim btw, it would be cool if you could include a JDK from Azul

<shiranaihito>i don't remember the details, but basically they "verify"/test openjdk and publish that as their own package

<shiranaihito>i saw someone say they had problems with plain openjdk, but not with azul's version

<ng0>in any case zulu from azul looks compatible in licensing, on the shallow (marketing/website) statements front.

<efraim>did we forget to update gawk to 4.2.0 in core-updates?

<lfam>efraim: You have to have known something to forget it, yes? :)

<efraim>I kept the email from gnu-announce since it wasn't updated :)

<lfam>efraim: Do we need to update it to proceed? Or can we leave it for the next cycle? Or should we just go ahead and do it now?

<lfam>I haven't paid close attention this time so I don't know

<efraim>it looks like a nice update according to the email

<lfam>Overall what's the status of the branch? Ready to build out?

<efraim>if the gtk+@2 patch was pushed it should be ready for a build out for testing

<lfam>I believe it was pushed as 92b61d3e1bb50f0c1d087bc8d57cc00c3ce360df

<efraim>ACTION heads off to bed

IRC channel logs

2017-12-09.log