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<vagrantc>does it use most of the headers... e.g. package, version, tags and so on?
<vagrantc>guess i can just spell out as much as i know for know, and follow-up with a patch if someone doesn't beat me to it (which is likely, given my lack of guile/scheme/lisp background).
<CharlieBrown>Does Guix have any Qt themes, preferably Adwaita?
<niebie>guix package -s adwaita
<niebie>short answer, yes. adwaita is packaged in two packages. standalone and bundled with accessibility themes
<CharlieBrown>niebie: Does it support Qt? I ask because every Guix app is using Adwaita except Mumble.
<CharlieBrown>guix package -i gnome-themes-standard adwaita-icon-theme tmux
<niebie>CharlieBrown: sorry, i missed the Qt requirement
<niebie>CharlieBrown: I'm not sure on that, but based on 'gnome' and their gtk requirements, i doubt it
<niebie>CharlieBrown: I don't really use those sorts of applications - my desktop basically consists of tooling + emacs. dwm, st, surf
<niebie>CharlieBrown: which leaves me not having to muddle through those things
<CharlieBrown>niebie: I like Suckless tools, but their programs require patching to change settings. Doesn't that suck more on Guix?
<CharlieBrown>niebie: I have no strong preference for graphical or command line tools. I use whichever works.
<CharlieBrown>Aw man, niebie left. I wanted to know how to maintain Suckless apps on Guix.
<CharlieBrown>Repackaging every time you change a setting must suck.
<clacke[m]>Cal: you can build from an alternative source with a simple flag to guix build
<clacke[m]>If you want to install I guess you will need a .scm in the source dir and use guix install with the -f flag
<CharlieBrown>clacke: Oh, cool. It sounds easier than Arch and SLACKBUILDs.
<CharlieBrown>clacke: Doing `guix install -f dwm.scm` to update to my custom dwm doesn't sound so bad.
<CharlieBrown>I could probably even have a little `` to push to git and install from the Scheme file.
<fusion809>Hi folks whenever I run `guix pull && guix package -u` and there's a new commit icecat is rebuilt, even though nothing has changed in icecat. Is there a way to stop this it's irritating as icecat isn't a small package to rebuild.
<fusion809>I have substitutes set up
<brendyn>guix package --do-not-upgrade=icecat -u
<fusion809>OK thanks. Although when a new update of IceCat comes out it won't update then, but at least it's if I keep an eye on IceCat updates I can change still get the update as it's just one package
<brendyn>You want to avoid an upgrade when icecat is updated only because a dependency has changed, but the icecat package it's self hasn't changed?
<fusion809>Ya, that sounds right. Although it'd be great to have a way for the rebuild to occur if and only if it's necessary. Like if the dependency change is major enough to make icecat not launch without it
<fusion809>Eh I think it'll be simpler to manage it using my distro's package manager.
<fusion809>Just Arch Linux has no binaries for IceCat, so I have to build it from the AUR which is also tedious. But oh well such is life
<brendyn>Guix doesn't support that because changing a dep means changing the derivation
<brendyn>What you want requires some manual hacking
<brendyn>perhaps We could add a feature to upgrade only version number changes
<brendyn>Hmm, why does guix refer to two different versions of gmp-6.1.2 ?
<clacke[m]>Nix has the choice between --leq and --eq upgrades, it's just a matter of implementing the choice. I guess guix has chosen to only provide the method that allows security upgrades to be applied across the board as they come in.
<clacke[m]>fusion809: Consider the case that there is a security upgrade to e g. gnutls. If icecat is not upgraded as soon as possible, i.e. because it is waiting for the next version of icecat itself, you would be vulnerable.
<Digit>hi guix'ers. what might the emacs of web browsers be like? ( ~ if guix is the emacs of distros.) ( ~ i'm thinking conkeror... but wouldnt it be nice* if it were configured entirely in guile like guix)
<Digit>* pls can someone make that. n_n
<efraim>sneek: later tell civodul did you see my follow-up on parallelizing strip on x86_64?
<sneek>Will do.
<efraim>sneek: thanks
<efraim>sneek: botsnack
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<sneek>civodul, you have 1 message.
<sneek>civodul, efraim says: did you see my follow-up on parallelizing strip on x86_64?
<civodul>efraim: i think i did!
<civodul>i'm still somewhat reluctant
<civodul>but maybe that's because i've never felt that this phase was taking a long time
<rekado_>my emails to are still delayed or not delivered at all :(
<rekado_>just received notifications for three undeliverable emails, all to people
<civodul>rekado_: bah :-(
<civodul>maybe you could use an alternate provider/SMTP server until it's fixed?
<civodul>does it help to use as the SMTP server?
<efraim>'sudo herd status mcron' should say stopped and disabled?
<civodul>efraim: yup!
<brendyn>How do install services without starting them on boot?
<civodul>brendyn: you need some hackery to modify the shepherd-service instance that the service produces
<brendyn>Hackery @.@
<civodul>i've never tried so that'd require some thought, but i think it's something we make unnecessarily difficult
<civodul>maybe you can email help-guix
<brendyn>I thought it's a pretty basic feature. I just want to turn my ssh server on when i need to use it and then turn it off again, i don't want to reconfigure and reboot
<clacke[m]>you shouldn't have to reboot, right?
<clacke[m]>If you reconfigure a service in and out of existence, isn't it supposed to be started and stopped?
<efraim>I tried running 'lpq' from cups without the server enabled, useless error message
<brendyn>in any case i should have to rebuiuld my whole system and end up downloading countless updates just to start and stop sshd
<civodul>brendyn: you only end up downloading stuff if you also upgrade at the same time
<civodul>but at any rate, i agree with you: it's unnecessarily difficult to do right now
<civodul>starting a discussion on the list might help figure out how to improve this
<brendyn>by upgrade you mean just a guix pull
<civodul>right, you don't have to run 'guix pull'
<civodul>you can just reconfigure
<brendyn>Yeah but I cant un-run it once I've done it :P
<civodul>(although i'd like to have pull-rollback at some point)
<civodul>rekado: in other news, we're still at 800+ packages in python.scm
<civodul>and that's ~1MiB resident per package...
<brendyn>I've been thinking about Guix's user friendliness lately. I feel like it is all a result of Guix's functional style, and there is need to figure out how to bring back simplicity on top of it's design
<civodul>anyone willing to give a hand in splitting python.scm? :-)
<civodul>brendyn: i think it's good to share what the major stumbling blocks were for you as a newcomer, and from there to try and find ways to improve that
<brendyn>Because the system is .scm file which is abitrary code, there is not easy to write a script that does something like "installs an ssh service" that will work on any arbitary GuixSD system
<brendyn>I want to build a complete desktop os, so for example we need a gui for installing programs where someone can just tick a box to install a new service
<efraim>I'm on my phone ATM, but python-dbus(?) can move to glib with the other pieces
<efraim>And there's 30-40 packages related to python testing
<brendyn>civodul: I'd like to improve Guix but it's still way over my head, I can't really understand the code outside gnu/packages/ very well.
<civodul>brendyn: sure, but you can help by giving ideas of how you'd like things to behave, etc.
<brendyn>Ok I will start to take notes then and send an email some time
<civodul>a GUI would just need to produce an 'operating-system' declaration, so i think it'd be easier to write than for an "imperative" distro
<civodul>well, the backend would be easier
<civodul>efraim: right, good points
<civodul>30-40 is not much though ;-)
<efraim>I'm guessing there would be some overlap with the ncurses installer
<efraim>That was from a quick grep pytest
<brendyn>But I'm considering the case were someone already has a system definition, and they want to install something new that modifies it
<brendyn>And that new think could be third party. I don't want have it inconvenient to share programs without getting them upstream into the official Guix repo
<vagrantc>one thing i've found challenging as a newcomer is, and maybe it's just a misconception, is that in order to enable a service, i need to both specify the correct (use-package-modules foo) and later add the actual package i want, which may be (packages (cons* bar baz))
<brendyn>Yeah, the fact that modules don't represent packages is inelegent
<vagrantc>it's not obvious that bar and baz come from foo
<brendyn>vagrantc: btw, I get around that for packages by using specification->package
<vagrantc>similar with the services ... it's not clear what exactly i get with use-service-modules desktop and the corresponding services
<janneke>brendyn: that's possibly nice, but we don't use such examples in the default templates?
<vagrantc>i'm also coming from a very limited understanding of guile/scheme/lisp, so while some of those templates *look* clear, it's not always obvious what they do
<vagrantc>seems like i'll inevitably learn some, going down the road...
<brendyn>janneke: It's mentioned here:
<janneke>brendyn: thanks, nice, i stand corrected
<civodul>vagrantc: the module/package distinction is indeed confusing to newcomers
<civodul>using 'specification->package' alleviates that problem, we should probably mention it more prominently
<vagrantc>specification->package does look simpler ... sort of
<civodul>well yeah
<civodul>the new "fix hints" might help a bit as well
<civodul>ACTION has to go
<atw>to be clear, modules is a Guile concept, right?
<sneek>Welcome back atw, you have 1 message.
<sneek>atw, ng0 says: no idea. I'm probably not coming, there's CCC congress in december and a GNUnet meeting/workshop in january. I think there'll be Guile/Guix related talks in other rooms.
<wigust>atw: Yes, modules are pieces of a program written in Guile.
<myglc2``>Hi Guix, is there a step-by-step walkthur of hacking a package using all bells and whistles?
<myglc2``>I want to live the full emacs-guix/geiser/REPL/ build-fail into the dev enviroment dream.
<benny>is there a way to install both python2 and python3 in guix?
<bavier>benny: `guix package -i python@2 python@3`
<benny>guix package: error: profile contains conflicting entries for python:out
<benny>guix package: error: first entry: python@2.7.13:out /gnu/store/8ajq0z1sfgrpiz6c36g1gl6wib045k8i-python-2.7.13
<benny>guix package: error: second entry: python@3.5.3:out /gnu/store/iyy9w0hcxv4dg9q92d4g023vvz50r5bq-python-3.5.3
<bavier>I guess I'm wrong then
<bavier>you'll have to install it to a different profile then
<wigust>benny: bavier right
<benny>ah okay thanks bavier wigust
<wigust>myglc2``: Yes, there are a
<vagrantc>other distros use python, python2 and/or python3 so that they can be co-installable
<vagrantc>might be possible to make a tweak to the packaging to allow for that
<wigust>myglc2``: Also imports are a way to getting start with packaging or even produce one for free,
<vagrantc>of course, then packages depending on particular versions need to explicitly call it with the appropriate version
<benny>currently python@2 installs "python", "python2" and "python2.7" whereas python@3 installs "python3" and "python3.5"
<benny>if you want python@3 to be python you need to install python-wrapper, maybe that's the reason in this case or it's a more general thing about different versions in the same environment
<benny>reason for the conflict*
<myglc2``>wigust: Thanks, I was AFK
<myglc2``>wigust: Thanks for the links. I've read all those. I have a fully functional git checkout w/which I build and run GuixSD as my daily driver for the past 1.5 years. Heck, I have even submitted minor patches. But I don't use emacs-guix or geiser or the REPL to hack packages. I was hoping I had missed a quick start or video somewhere that puts these steps together.
<benny>as someone interested in guixsd that would be very welcome, I'm still before my first package
<wigust>myglc2``: Emacs-guix and Geiser have their own documentation similar to Guix
***vagrant_ is now known as vagrantcish
<wigust>myglc2``: You could also read them via M-x info inside Emacs
<wigust>If you installed geiser and emacs-guix
<efraim>I use vim and the vim airline plugin and that's about it
<myglc2``>wigust: I am totally inside the GuixSD/emacs-guix/geiser/magit/emacs spacesuite for the last 1.5 years. I use emacs-guix daily for system and package management. I read the guix mail lists with mu4e and gnus. I read doc with INFO and WOMAN. I just wish it was more obvious what the ninja package hacking moves are.
<myglc2``>wigust: Note: this is not meant as a complaint... but some kind of quick-start doc or video would sure be helpful for noob & I was hoping such existed.
<wigust>myglc2``: There are video talks on
<myglc2``>wigust: Thanks. I will look at those.
<vagrantcish>any recommendations for a screen locker? using i3-wm, but it appears i3lock isn't packaged. all i'm finding are xlockmore and xscreensaver
<ng0>I have i3lock… kind of
<ng0>well it needs debugging
<ng0>if you want to repeatedly lock yourself out and debug it, I can send it :D
<ng0>it's super annoying to debug
<ng0>i3lock and i3lock-color
<ng0>so I've been sitting on it for months
<vagrantcish>i've been using it in debian for a while... wonder what's making it troublesome
<vagrantcish>it would be good to learn how to build guix packages at some point. :)
<ng0>so what I have now is a functional package, but with a twist: the correct password is not accepted
<vagrantcish>ACTION blinks
<vagrantcish>i presume that the wrong password is also not accepted?
<ng0>no idea
<ng0>if you know more dbus/policykit etc than I do, you can give it a try
<vagrantcish>not much, no. perhaps another day...
<ng0>I have comparable issues with mate-screensaver where I disabled the screenlocking function for now, so eventually I need to rtfm dbus & co
<rekado>vagrantc, benny: it’s probably for the better that currently python@2 and python@3 cannot be installed into the same profile.
<rekado>generally it’s not a problem (they don’t have any overlapping files)
<rekado>but the PYTHONPATH turns out to be a problem
<rekado>we’re using PYTHONPATH extensively to ensure that installed packages are found.
<rekado>when both python2 and python3 packages are installed into the same profile and the user sets PYTHONPATH to the profile’s union site-packages directory … weird things can happen
<bavier>anyone else see tests/ hang?
<vagrantc>rekado: makes sense that that might make things... challenging to get right
<vagrantc>python 2 is pretty deprecated at this point anyways
<vagrantc>despite having a wide base of software still
<vagrantc>at least, if is to be believed
<wigust>vagrantc: You could install python 2 applications without conflicting with python 3 interpreter in one profile, as I remember.
<vagrantc>sure, but then you have to switch profiles depending on what you want to run?
<wigust>vagrantc: No, you don't need to switch profiles as I see.
<vagrantcish>hrm. sakura hardcodes firefox as it's default web browser...
<vagrantcish>don't seen an obvious way to configure it in the options or the .config/sakura/sakura.conf
<vagrantcish>wigust: so that just installs a python2 application with some python3 compatibility layer?
<wigust>vagrantcish: I think it installs python 2 application and python 3 interpreter. So you could use old python 2 application via python 2 interpreter and SEPARATELY python 3 interpreter for programing or something.
<vagrantcish>aha. installing xdg-utils fixed the issue with sakura defaulting to firefox
<rekado>I like the new hints when using “guix environment” with a file.
<davexunit>what do the hints say?
<rekado>/home/rwurmus/code/asli-fp/footprint-pipeline-1.0.0/guix.scm:44:12: /home/rwurmus/code/asli-fp/footprint-pipeline-1.0.0/guix.scm:44:12: license:gpl2+: unbound variable
<rekado>hint: Did you forget a `use-modules' form?
<rekado>ACTION has connection problems :(
<civodul>that was my impression :-)