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<eric23>I get an error running guix pull
***Piece_Maker is now known as Acou_Bass
***Piece_Maker is now known as Acou_Bass
<rekado>Hi Guix!
<rekado>Is there a variant of download-to-store that is cached?
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<civodul>the new M-x guix-system-generations is really nice
<civodul>well it's probably not that new, but i had not seen the latest changes
<rekado_>ACTION packaged glusterfs
<rekado_>for the big storage we got for I’d like to try to connect it via glusterfs
<rekado_>this may simplify future expansion.
<mb[m]1>rekado: sweet! What made you choose it over CephFS?
<rekado>I didn’t really choose.
<rekado>we had installed glusterfs on another cluster, so I remembered glusterfs and didn’t think of CephFS.
<rekado>I’ll take almost anything that’s not NFS :)
<mb[m]1>Oh, right :) Ceph imposes a certain storage architecture, so for small/simple setups it may not be the best choice.
<mb[m]1>I evaluated Gluster some five years ago to replace an OCFS2 setup (ugh), but found it was pretty fragile under stress. Hopefully it has gotten better.
<mb[m]1>Speak of the devil, the last message over at #debian-security is CVE-2017-15096/glusterfs.
<htgoebel>ACTION gets frustrated
<htgoebel>last week "make check-system TESTS=installed-os" worked without any problem
<htgoebel>now it freezes at random points
<brendyn>my icecat uses this search engine but it doesn't seem to exist
<civodul>brendyn: it does exist AFAICS
<brendyn>maybe the opennic dns server im using doesnt have it for some weird reason...
<brendyn>ok it goes to localhost what the hell
<brendyn>because its in my /etc/hosts file... i wonder why i did that
<efraim>time to beat up on grub!
<mb[m]1>efraim: what? :)
<efraim>armhf and aarch64 cant use regular grub
<mb[m]1>efraim: right, sounds good :)
<mb[m]1>I'll be experimenting with building a kernel for Rockchip Veyron this weekend. And then embedding u-boot in libreboots "depthcharge" loader.
<civodul>rekado_: regarding the big storage you got for berlin, it'd be interesting to have long(er)-term archival of nars
<civodul>like currently 'guix publish' advertises a TTL of 45 days
<civodul>we could make that 12 months or something :-)
<enick_2>Hmm, I think I'm missing something about how Debbugs works. I just replied to this bug, and it now says modified today, but my reply isn't shown
<enick_2>Do bugs lock themselves after a period of time?
<enick_2>Ah, might be because I CC'd debbugs
<civodul>enick_2: it takes a while if it's your first message to the list
<enick_2>No, that can't be right, as there were other messages CC'ing debbugs. It does appear if I click "Toggle" at the top of the page. For some reason it's not considered a first-class message.
<enick_2>civodul: sorry, saying no to myself, not you you :)
***enick_2 is now known as sturm
<civodul>oh ok :-)
<sturm>It's not my first message to the list though, so I guess that's not the cause
<Achylles>Why should I guix instead of "apt"in my debian box? Trying to understand this package...
<sneek>Achylles, you have 1 message.
<sneek>Achylles, rekado says: Actually, the mailing list is, not
<Achylles>Why should I guix instead of "apt"in my debian box? Trying to understand this package...
<civodul>mb[m]1: looks like we don't have substitutes for 'glibc-final', i.e., /gnu/store/3h31zsqxjjg52da5gp3qmhkh4x8klhah-glibc-2.25
<civodul>i think that's because 'glibc-final' is private
<civodul>so the Cuirass/Hydra stuff doesn't pick it up
<civodul>hmm actually berlin has it now
<civodul>actually no
<civodul>ACTION is confused
<sturm>civodul: you're right, I was being too impatient - the message is showing up properly now
<htgoebel>civodul: Running "make check-system TESTS=installed-os" hangs again. SO I can't verify the overhauled "overlay instead of unionfs" patches. How to proceed?
<civodul>htgoebel: could you try to see where it hangs? does it hang in the same way on master?
<rekado_>htgoebel: does it only hang sometimes when running it multiple times?
<rekado_>or does this only happen for specific versions? (e.g. only with your changes)
<htgoebel>civodul: Each turn-around takes 2 hours :-(
<htgoebel>I now discovered Out of Memory errors.
<htgoebel>This means I need to change the vm's memory and do another cycle.
<htgoebel>I'm doing this for a week now. This is really frustrating.
<htgoebel>I'll take anothre aproch.
<roptat>Achylles: what do you mean?
<Achylles>I mean that I use debian admin package ""apt/apt-get". Why should I use guix?
<Achylles>Which is the advantage of using an external admin package over a native one?
<rekado_>Achylles: Guix is a different package manager with different properties. I suggest browsing the website for a list of features.
<civodul>htgoebel: if you test on master, hopefully there are substitutes available for it
<Achylles>apt has tons of options...
<civodul>but anyway, if the other tests pass, that's probably good already
<rekado_>Achylles: please check out the list of features on the website and the documentation.
<civodul>rekado_: i've sent an email re FOSDEM
<rekado_>civodul: thanks!
<civodul>let the Guix meet! :-)
<rekado_>Achylles: if you’re happy with apt that’s great. We won’t try to convince you to use something else. :)
<Achylles>ok. Thx...
<Achylles>can I "apt install guix" to have a try on it?
<jonsger[m]>Achylles: I use both :) apt and guix
<Achylles>jonsger[m], on debian?
<rekado_>Achylles: there is no “guix” package in the Debian repositories.
<roptat>but you can still install the "binary" version, it's pretty easy
<roptat>and then guix gets managed by guix :)
<Achylles>Have you contacted debian devs to add guix to the official repos?
<roptat>yes, but it doesn't comply with their packaging policy
<roptat>we need to create a /gnu/store directory, which is not standard
<Achylles>I am making a guix usb to try it upon reboot
<jonsger[m]>Achylles: I use apt as package manager as well as guix :)
<Achylles>jonsger[m], what are the advantage of using guix instead of apt?
<Achylles>one more package manager?
<Achylles>yum, dnf, apt, pkg, etc...
<rekado_>none of these implement “functional package management”. I can only recommend reading the descriptions of Guix or watching the talks on the website.
<civodul>still, lacks substitutes for /gnu/store/399spz1vczfqzvyx352ln9bwsjm2ykwh-glibc-intermediate-2.25, meaning that people typically end up building it by hand currently :/
<civodul>Achylles: just look at the example video on and see what you think
<civodul>transactional upgrades/rollback as non-root is not something apt & co. provide
<rekado_>civodul: would it help to define a set of core packages and evaluate and build those more frequently?
<rekado_>currently, cuirass creates an evaluation for all packages and it takes a long time before it can start a new evaluation.
<civodul>rekado_: that's a good idea, but the problem here is different i think
<civodul>rekado_: another problem is that Cuirass does nothing while evaluating, and does not evaluate while building
<civodul>we can do better :-)
<Achylles>civodul, ok I will have a look on the video
<Achylles>no video on this link
<Achylles>i see now
<Achylles>nothing really new on the video
<civodul>Achylles: well again, we won't argue :-)
<civodul>it's up to you to see whether it's of any use to you
<jonsger[m]>Achylles: I use guix _not_ instead of apt. I use it as addition so I can easily install the most recent version of gcc for example :)
<Achylles>jonsger[m], thx. Anyway...
<rekado_>I’m using it on a Fedora workstation instead of yum/dnf so that I can get reproducibility, roll-backs, ad-hoc environments, …
<efraim>The ad-hoc environments are great
<htgoebel>Using more memory for the VM help continuing the test. Now I get an error regarding my last change.
<htgoebel>Is "canonicalize-path" a string-only operation, or does it work on the file-system?
<htgoebel>I need a string-only operation
<mb[m]1>civodul: I've noticed this too, and also that the ungrafted glibc (I think) is prone to garbage collection(!), so people may end up building it multiple times.
<civodul>mb[m]1: right, that really sucks
<efraim>I noticed that if I have a grafted substitute then guix will prefer that over downloading an ungrafted one and then grafting it
<efraim>Also gnupg builds and installs gpgscm, but online documentation on using it is sparse
<civodul>efraim: it *installs* gpgscm?
<civodul>that was supposed to be a hack for internal use
<efraim>I didn't check 2.2.1, but 2.2.2 it gets installed
<efraim>I'm on my phone atm
<civodul>who could guess gpg would compete with Guile? ;-)
<htgoebel>civodul: For overlay you recommended using "canonicalize-path". This fails with "No such file or directory". Looks like its accessing the file-system, like "realpath". I need a string-only operation.
<bavier>have we thought about substitute servers serving up package deltas?
<htgoebel>civodul: BTW: I could not find the definition of "canonicalize-path" anywhere.
<htgoebel>ACTION loves the well structured Python standard library using spelling module names
<civodul>htgoebel: it's implemented in C, in libguile
<civodul>but yeah, i agree that there's a whole lot of stuff in the default module
<civodul>would be nice to make it more modular, but it's hard to do at this late stage
<htgoebel>civodul: Anyway, I a string-manipulation-only version of it. Is it available?
<mb[m]1>Any chance we could squeeze in a Guile 2.2.3 update (and release!) this rebuild cycle?
<civodul>mb[m]1: that would be awesome
<civodul>wingo: what do you think? would it be doable for you?
<htgoebel>No "normalize-path" in guile? Seriously?
<htgoebel>Do I really have to implement such a basic function myself?
<civodul>htgoebel: how would it differ from canonicalize-path?
<htgoebel>civodul: It must nor access the file-system, but work just on the string
<htgoebel>Which is quite an important difference if the paths not yet exist
<civodul>ok so what would it do? strip extra slashes?
<htgoebel>convert "foo/bar/../bla/./x./y/.." into "foo/bla/x"
<htgoebel>But maybe I'll just use string-append and leave this to the remaining code.
<bms_>Good morning, Guix!
<bavier>hello bms_
<bms_>How are you?
<bavier>bms_: I just read your mail on guile-devel
<bavier>sounds like a cool project
<bms_>Oh, thank you!
<ng0>civodul (and everyone): A follow up to my comment in the awesome-wm update: bug#29196: upstreaming of reproducibility related patches
<civodul>htgoebel: problem is that ".." resolution is not lexical in Unix, so you cannot do what canonicalize-path does without accessing the file system
<civodul>there were discussions in GNU/Hurd to switch to lexical-dot-dot, but that never materialized, although it would have been much simpler
<civodul>ACTION has to go
<dustyweb>is anyone using the guile-commonmark package from guix?
<efraim>openmpi and libfabric built on aarch64 before psm was added
<bavier>efraim: when was that change made?
<efraim>about 2 hours ago
<bavier>efraim: oh, ok, we should fix that then
<efraim>already on it
<efraim>tagged psm as intel only, marking its use in libfabric and openmpi as (match (%current-system)...
<bavier>efraim: great, that's just what I was thinking
<efraim>i should figure out something like (match (%current-system) ((supported-systems psm) '("psm"...
<bavier>efraim: (member (%current-system) (package-supported-systems psm)) ?
<efraim>i'll try that, then if the supported systems change we won't have to chase it down over the other packages
<bavier>with appropriate splicing and such, yup
<janneke>dustyweb: it looks like i got guile-emacs resurrected, but it needs to be compiled with -g (or without -O2/-O3) does that ring a bell?
<efraim>bavier: fix pushed, thanks
<bavier>efraim: thank you!
<dustyweb>janneke: interesting! it doesn't, but... I don't really know much about gcc tbh :)
<eric23>I am having trouble setting the time. "sudo ntpd -s" gives ntpd: unknown user _ntp
<janneke>*woot*, ran my first Guile Scheme inside Guile-Emacs ;-)
<taohansen>janneke: how is Guile-Emacs for daily use? could i switch my EXWM config over to it seamlessly?
<janneke>taohansen: I just ran it for the first time. While it's impressive how well everything seems to work, I don't think it's ready for daily use yet.
<taohansen>also: i have a HiDPI screen. both the visual elements of SLiM and my cursor are tiny. i can deal with SLiM but my cursor frequently gets lost. i've made the appropriate .Xresources change, `Xcursor.size: 48` but my cursor remains tiny. this is on GuixSD. anyone know a solution?
<janneke>taohansen: same problem here, tiny cursor.
<taohansen>hmm yeah, all my other .Xresources settings work fine. HiDPI is surprisingly workable with just EXWM but the tiny cursor is bothering me.
<janneke>also rather happily running exwm-x since start of summer
<janneke>the out-of-memory bug is annoying
<civodul>efraim: good catch re PSM!
<civodul>nowadays everyone replies from their toaster or fridge, which appear to enforce top-posting
<civodul>crazy days!
<bavier>I'm guilty. haven't found a reliable way to inline-reply at $dayjob
<janneke>on an on, boasting how user friendly their computer (sigh) is, yet cannot have it do any of the most simple or sensible things -- "this is what the computer does, everyones computer does"
<janneke>better to see the weird/funny side of it
<civodul>bavier: heh, np :-)
<civodul>i just stumbled upon a series of such messages in a row
<rekado_>ACTION downloads texlive-texmf to build numpy :(
<bavier>ACTION needs to fix texlive on aarch64 to build hypre :(
<mb[m]1>ACTION just started building binutils for some reason, when building out all dependents of "bdftopcf" :(
<mb[m]1>Oh wait, that's because I removed Hydra from substitute-urls.
<mb[m]1>There's a bug here somewhere, that when using multiple (or many, even) substitute servers, Guix sometimes "gives up" immediately after getting a corrupt substitute even with --fallback.
<rekado_>I really want to remove the big texlive from matplotlib and the like.
<rekado_>I just couldn’t get it to work, and rebuilds take a very long time. Hard to iterate.
<mb[m]1>Hi bms_.
<bms_>How are you?
<mb[m]1>Not too good; yourself?
<mb[m]1>The --fallback problem seems related to offloading. Will file bug.
<bms_>I'm fine.
<bms_>What's there to not be too good about?
<mb[m]1>Oh, so many things :) but really, I'm fine. Just challenging conventional idioms.