<reepca>I'm not sure exactly where in the manual would best summarize it - just looking at "invoking guix system" I see that a lot of the options (build, roll-back, switch-generation) are similar to "guix package". I notice there isn't a command there that lists installed system packages or anything, but if you look at /var/guix/profiles/system/profile you'll see that it's very much like a user profile.
<reepca>well okay, on second thought "build" isn't similar to guix package, it's similar to guix build, but you get the point
<reepca>ah, I see now that there's a "manifest" file in that directory that lists all of the system's packages.
<nckx>Indeed: the manual doesn't seem to explicitly explain the ‘system profile’ concept, at least not using that term.
<nckx>(reepca: sorry, I was out, but I see you got your answer anyway)
<nckx>Maybe I can write something readable to briefly touch on them in section 3.1, but don't hold your breath.
<nckx>Because I'd write ‘a system profile is exactly like a user profile, but for the system instead of for a user’ in far more words, start to condense my prose, and realise that. Then I'd go do something else, annoyed.
<nckx>reepca: Cantarell. I'm running hexchat from Guix on a very busted (as in, won't even update itself since March) Ubuntu system. I just can't be bothered to fix it. Soon all will be GuixSD and happiness.
<quiliro>i did not remove it today and have started the machine several times
<quiliro>and guix package -I tor shows nothing on bot users
<quiliro>reepca: that is exactly the problem i have...tor is started even though it has been removed
<nckx>quiliro: If you never had tor in your config.scm, it's not being started by the system.
<quiliro>and it is not on the system profile that i used for 'guix system reconfigure' last time
<quiliro>nckx: i installed tor on users: quiliro and root...but then removed it from both
<nckx>quiliro: Just installing it wouldn't make it start at boot. Who or what is starting it?
<lfam>quiliro: `guix package -u` is the same as `guix package --upgrade`. I'll use the long form for clarity.
<lfam>`guix package --upgrade` takes an optional argument. For example, `guix package --upgrade icecat` will upgrade IceCat.
<lfam>But, you can omit the argument, and Guix will upgrade everything in your profile. However, if you try `guix package --upgrade --fallback`, Guix will interpret '--fallback' as the argument to '--upgrade'.
<lfam>So, you should pass '.' as the argument. That is a regular expression that sort of means "everything".
<lfam>In conclusion, whether or not the '.' is necessary depends on whether or not you pass any arguments after '--upgrade'.
<nckx>quiliro: could you rephrase that question ng0 quoted? I can't parse it.
<quiliro>nckx: what i mean is that directory.fsf.org could use the name, synopsis, description and other tags from 'guix package'
<nckx>Oh, OK. Then it's ng0's answer that I don't get. Never mind :-)
<nckx>quiliro: I wonder what the copyright situation would be for that. If the descriptions are copyrightable, the individual contributors retain their copyright. On the other hand, the vast majority of descriptions are straight from the home page, Wikipedia, or both.
<nckx>I also wish Guix had better and longer descriptions, but no-one seems to like writing them :-(
<nckx>(I'm not saying we should turn 'em into how-to guides or bore people with long and probably outdated lists of supported file formats, but that's a problem I'd be glad to have. It's easier to prune than to write.)
<nckx>^ unrelated to your patch which just landed in my in-box :-)
<nckx>‘Fun’ ‘fact’: guix pull makes my rusty mail server swap so deep it delays delivery by several minutes. I hope someone™ fixes that soon.
<lfam>nckx: Did you read the Guile thread about the excessive memory consumption?
<quiliro>what do you think about this statement: the use of a software is its reason to be...but its reason to be is no justification for the user being under control of the program instead of the other way around....hence freedom is essential on software
<reepca>Well, turns out the old libre-friendly GPU I got, despite having 3 video outputs, only supports 2 at once. Thankfully I accidentally got another one during my quest to get multiple displays working, and at last, although only one's processing capability is actually being used, I have 3 displays running \\o/
<lfam>Well, it's not necessary, as I pointed out earlier :)
<cehteh>its not that i dont trust redshift, its about that idont want to initiate a "figure my location out" request
<cehteh>yes, you can hardcode the coords, but thats a bit unintuitive for most users, or do you know your coordinates?
<lfam>I had to look them up. But, I think that the number of people using redshift and not using it as an integrated part of a desktop environment that uses geo-ip is extremely small.
<lfam>Not that many people will put an operating system together from spare parts so that they would need to type the coordinates or city name
<cehteh>using the timezone unless more exact specified would already work for a lot people
<lfam>Yes, I wonder if it can take advantage of the tzdata db
<cehteh>thats not enough to determine exact dusk/dawn times .. but close enough
<lfam>The exact times are not necessary since the color change is very slow. Plus, weather will change the time the ambient light changes
<lfam>There is a graphical program redshift-gtk, maybe it's more accessible to lay users
<cehteh>before redshift i used the laptop webcam to get color and brightness of the environment, the only flaw was that i never figured out how to set the color temperature (i only modified color gamma)
<cehteh>i still have a script hooked on acpi buttons which does that for brightness
<lfam>We aren't building the graphical program, it seems
<cehteh>self learning ... when one readjusts the brightness it adjusts a table, and the think-button oft the thinkpad does an autoadjust
<nckx>quiliro: I'm writing a short reply to your fsf-directory e-mail. Mind if I cross-post it to guix-devel?
<quiliro>nckx: i was thinking of doing that myself.....but did not because i would be bashed for cross posting.....if you want to take the bashing, go ahead...i am usually the one that people bash...but it is nice to share ;-)
<Salt>as I've never used it before and thought that bootstrapping would be easier (ha!)
<looper123>quiliro: I most likely fail in doing so. Well, openembedded files might be readable enough to give a conversion a try but I'm not familiar with the guix packagemanger nor guile/ sheme. I just read hurd is planed to be build with it so I wondered why not this too?
<nckx>Oh. I'm not active in that area myself, so can't give much info without risking misinformation. But I have used proot with some success on a shared system. And that was ages ago. Things can only have improved since.
<nckx>ACTION is really going to bed now; I need to be able to drive in 3 hours.
<Apteryx>Hmm, has anyone seen this: configure: error: found development files for Guile 2.2, but /gnu/store/a88g2d4nf6dw4xbn1xilwhcyzvciaryg-profile/bin/guile has effective version 2.0. I'm trying to build an old tree.
<amz3``>I got this issue several time, not sure how I fixed it
<nckx>quiliro: re: keyboard layouts, that's just the way things are. The kernel keymap isn't used by X and vice versa. GuixSD doesn't add an abstraction to set both at once like certain other distributions. That would involve translation and lossiness, too.
<nckx>quiliro: again, all I can say is that scp should work (with ‘openssh’ in your operating-system packages) and does here :-)
<quiliro>how does the graphical login manager (elogind?) know where to get the keyboard layout?
<quiliro>nckx: i am connecting via ssh...it should be up, no?
<quiliro>plus i have scp command on installed on both ends
<quiliro>nckx: what does ‘(operating-system (packages (list openssh ; for scp...’ do?
<nckx>Installed in the way I pasted above? Then I don't know what the problem is. Try grepping the guix tree if you're stuck, I really thought it was documented *somwhere*.
<nckx>Installs openssh (with scp) into your system profile (remember that? :-)
<nckx>quiliro: ^ ‘(operating-system (...’ does that.
<nckx>quiliro: I have to leave again. Try reconfiguring with that in your config.scm and scp should work.
<reepca>how does scp find the remote-scp binary? would it look in PATH? Wouldn't that then depend on the profile of whichever user you're logging in as over ssh? Is /etc/profile sourced by default when ssh'ing?
<jlicht>reepca: There should be an entry in .bashrc on GuixSD systems AFAIK, dealing with literally this
<reepca>it seems to only source /etc/profile if "cat" can't be found. I wonder why that is.
<jlicht>reepca: I guess that `cat´ would also be installed in a profile. So basically a heuristic that assumes if cat is not in path, this is probably a guix-based machine
<jlicht>reepca: but to answer your original question: I guess scp finds remote-scp in PATH, but does not source /etc/profile automatically (only if you have that line in your bashrc)
<reepca>there are quite a few shell initialization scripts for various uses - among them are /etc/profile and ~/.bashrc
<ng0>I haven't read all of this conversation, but "scp" is only exposed systemwide if "openssh" is part of the (packages) in the operating system config file.
<reepca>/etc/profile gets run (technically "sourced") whenever an interactive shell is started. In GuixSD /etc/profile delegates setting of environment variables and such to the user-specific stuff in ~/.guix-profile/etc/profile
<reepca>when you start a normal ssh session, that's interactive, so /etc/profile gets sourced and you get your PATH set to what the user would normally have.
<reepca>but when you use scp, it's non-interactive, so only the initialization script for bash (~/.bashrc) gets run.
<reepca>~/.bashrc as it was before you changed it tried to guess whether it needed to source /etc/profile based on whether it could find "cat" (really common). But "which cat" in my case at least indicates that it's installed in the system-wide profile (I'm not sure how the default path gets setup). So /etc/profile wasn't getting sourced when an ssh session was started by scp, so the user-specific profile wasn't getting initialized.
<reepca>Of course, the proper solution to this is, as ng0 says, to have scp installed in the system-wide profile. We can check whether this is already the case using: guix package -p /run/current-system/profile -A openssh
<Apteryx>Found a GCC bug trying to build firstname.lastname@example.org. Can someone reproduce this?
<quiliro>$ guix package -p /run/current-system/profile -A openssh
<quiliro>openssh 7.5p1 out gnu/packages/ssh.scm:125:2
<joshuaBPMan_>Hello, I'm about to try to install guix on my work machine. I figured I might as well try installing guix using the new ncurses option, just to test it. Is that available in the default installer? Or do I need to download something to use that?
<ng0>reepca, quiliro that solution is an 'open undocumented fact' and many people run into this.. or maybe it is documented and I haven't read that part of the docs in a while.