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<buenouan1>guix pull: error: build failed: build of `/gnu/store/3i7lbwjcpjnpn4jgdylqxyj44ycpkfd9-guix-latest.drv' failed
<buenouan1>ice-9/eval.scm:386:9: Throw to key `match-error' with args `("match" "no matching pattern" #<directory (gnu system shadow) a3d86e0>)'
<ng0>I really think I technically can't upgrade to guix 0.13
<ng0>101C° on the t400
<ng0>and I cleaned it the 4th time
<ng0>yeah. there's no way I'm running this again. the smell reminds me a tiny bit of back when I did some chip reflows
<janneke>ACTION -> zZzz
<ng0>can heat paste go "bad"? like not when applied in the wrong way, but can the paste itself degrade over years?
<buenouan1>I sort of thought so - Doesn't it dry out?
<ng0>the paste in the tube i mean
<buenouan1>oh, I doubt it
<ng0>mine is at leat 6 years old
<ng0>at least the last times guile or rustc compiled I found out that t400 's shut down at 120°C
<ng0>because it had so many screws I simply put a large room ventilator on top of it, worked.. but it's not a good solution when you should fix the paste
<ng0>because of this recent guile and rustc heating on every device I just offload.. I just hope it becomes less intense again to compile guile.
<mekeor>ACTION has two t400 laptops, too
<mekeor>ng0: why not try something like `guix pull --url=` ?
<ng0>yeah this would work fine in theory, but ~100°C - 120°C compiling guile are a turn off
<mekeor>why do you have to compile it though?
<ng0>i could try and set up offloading there as well
<ng0>sources too old.
<ng0>I think.
***Piece_Maker is now known as Acou_Bass
<ng0>mekeor: more or less this seems to be working
<ng0>I get a broken pipe for gmp-6.1.2
<ng0>ok, I just had to wait
<cntz>i am looking for help installing GuixSD with UEFI. Anyone out there?
<buenouan1>cntz: I have it running on a EFI macbook.
<buenouan1>I followed more or less
<cntz>I will read that... see if there is anything that I am not already doing.
<buenouan1>something went weird with rEFInd for me
<buenouan1>I thought I had failed, so I went to reinstall osx, after doing which (and not deleting the previous GuixSD partition), it was able to find GuixSD and boot to it.
<buenouan1>so it was like:
<buenouan1>install osx -> install refind -> install guixsd -> edit refind config -> reinstall osx -> boot to guixsd
<cntz>bizarre... Is there any reason for choosing rEFInd? Do you think GRUB wont work?
<buenouan1>As far as I understand, you need something before GRUB on things like this macbook.
<balduin>hello, I would like to compile Xen for Guix. However, Xen requires bin86. Is there already a bin86 packages in Guix?
<balduin>I could not find anything by looking at the website, but it could be that bin86 is packaged under a different name. Any idea?
<silverbeard>I hate to ask but is there a certain way you're supposed to upgrade from guixSD0.12 to 0.13
<silverbeard>Can't even run guix pull anymore, and the guix system reconfigure I ran expecting it to upgrade to 0.13 doesn't boot correctly
<lfam>silverbeard: The standard way is `guix pull && guix system reconfigure`, as root. What happens when you run `guix pull`?
<lfam>sneek: later ask silverbeard: The standard way is `guix pull && guix system reconfigure`, as root. What happens when you run `guix pull`?
<sneek>Will do.
<efraim>sneek: later tell silverbeard first run 'guix pull --url=' and then 'guix pull' again
<sneek>Will do.
<efraim>sneek: botsnack
<lfam>ACTION Building, building, building — fan whiiiiines
<janneke>lfam: we need more /etc/guix/machines.scm
<lfam>janneke: This time, I'm testing a change to core-updates before pushing, so it's my own fault :)
<lfam>But you're right, we need more machines!
<janneke>playing with offload since just a week, but ow if we could have a trusted distributed dynamic machines.scm
<efraim>Debian is sticking with perl 5.24 for a while
<lfam>efraim: Did they find more problems?
<efraim>I idle in debian-arm and debian-ports, lots of problrms always on ports but it mostly seemed like it was yhe easier option to let upstream projects fix the incompatabilities
<lfam>I guess we'll see once we build more of the package tree. It depends on how many problems there are. I used Git and Borg built on core-updates with Perl 5.26.0 yesterday, so at least some things are working.
<rekado_>janneke: I’m working on getting more machines for the build farm. Already got two GuixSD servers that just wait for an IP to be arranged.
<janneke>rekado_: oh wow
<ng0>sneek: later tell catonano: what the gnunet service needs is debugging. I don't have that time right now, I will start again once I can focus on it. I'm dealing with some really shitty people on my neck right now.
<sneek>Got it.
<ng0>sneek: later tell catonano: but if you are really interested, I can guide you or give instructions and my code. my idea of the service is a bit more than just the basic type.
<sneek>Will do.
<ng0>sneek: later tell catonano: in yesterdays mumble we also decided that the continuous integration part of gnunet will be fixed, which is good news.
<ng0>sneek: later tell catonano: well I would guess I have time starting august, but I'm not sure. it's mostly appointments, and final arrangements I need to make for university. and some other "leftovers".
<sneek>Got it.
<ng0>sneek: later tell catonano: worst case I don't get a place in the nearest university and have to stick with the one I have right now, which means driving around alot, which means less time to debug work (as mobile internet is not reliable in trains).
<sneek>Got it.
<ng0>sneek: later tell catonano: I'd really prefer 30-40 minutes one way over 1-2 hours one way :)
<sneek>Will do.
<ng0>sneek: later tell catonano: /done
<civodul>Hello Guix1
<civodul>Guix2 even!
<catonano>hi civodul :-)
<sneek>Welcome back catonano, you have 7 messages.
<sneek>catonano, ng0 says: what the gnunet service needs is debugging. I don't have that time right now, I will start again once I can focus on it. I'm dealing with some really shitty people on my neck right now.
<sneek>catonano, ng0 says: but if you are really interested, I can guide you or give instructions and my code. my idea of the service is a bit more than just the basic type.
<sneek>catonano, ng0 says: in yesterdays mumble we also decided that the continuous integration part of gnunet will be fixed, which is good news.
<sneek>catonano, ng0 says: well I would guess I have time starting august, but I'm not sure. it's mostly appointments, and final arrangements I need to make for university. and some other "leftovers".
<sneek>catonano, ng0 says: worst case I don't get a place in the nearest university and have to stick with the one I have right now, which means driving around alot, which means less time to debug work (as mobile internet is not reliable in trains).
<sneek>catonano, ng0 says: I'd really prefer 30-40 minutes one way over 1-2 hours one way :)
<sneek>catonano, ng0 says: /done
<catonano> sneek later tell ng0 ok I replied on #gnunet as I think it's more appropriate. Good luck with your university arrangements
<sneek>Will do.
<jsierles>civodul: rekado mentioned cuirass is not complete. what's missing?
<roelj>Is it possible to return a value from a G-Expression?
<civodul>jsierles: primarily it's rough on the edges, so error reporting is quite bad for instance
<civodul>and then it lacks a good HTTP API to query its status and to add more jobs
<jsierles>civodul: ok - what's the story for distributed builds there?
<civodul>it simply relies on Guix offloading support
<civodul>which is already here
<civodul>roelj: in what sense?
<civodul>an expression "returns" a value
<civodul>but a gexp is typically "staged" for later execution, so it cannot return a value before it's executed
<jsierles>civodul: ok, fair enough. my main issue is that there's no way to track or control resource usage for builds. for example, yesterday julia used 10GB of RAM and 8 CPUs at 100%
<jsierles>so i can see why build servers are falling over now and then
<jsierles>this is more a limitation of the guix offloading support. so maybe the right approach would be adding a new build hook that uses our scheduler instead of ssh. does the daemon really support that?
<civodul>jsierles: the build hook is quite generic, but in Guix it's more or less hardwired to 'guix offload'
<civodul>but you can see the build hook's protocol in (guix scripts offload)
<jsierles>ok, thanks
<civodul>or perhaps in the Nix documentation since that's where it originates from
<rekado_>hi guix!
<rekado_>roelj: hey, do you know nextflow?
<rekado_>roelj: snakemake has built-in support for conda, and I’m wondering if there’s something we can do to guixify these workflow systems.
<jsierles>rekado_: have you gotten conda installed in guix?
<jsierles>i tried, but it has a few failures
<rekado_>jsierles: actually, fred’s patch set was submitted to guix-patches before, but after the review there hasn’t been any update yet.
<rekado_>jsierles: I’d like to get Conda into Guix by the time I present Guix at BOSC at the end of July.
<jsierles>ok. well so far I only found an issue with one of the deps, a yaml reader
<jsierles>but don't understand what the failure's about
<rekado_>could be a PYTHONPATH problem. Maybe it just doesn’t look for the module in the right place.
<jsierles>i see
<jsierles>just need to ensure PYTHONPATH is set then for the check phase?
<jsierles>i assume the check phase is run automatically if you specify python-build-system?
<jsierles>i tried adding add-installed-pythonpath, but no luck.
<civodul>jsierles: the check phase is automatically run, yes
<civodul>PYTHONPATH is set in the 'set-paths' phase IIRC, at the very beginning of the build
<civodul>you can see that in (guix build python-build-system)
<jsierles>ok. thanks
<rekado_>jsierles: the check phase is run before installation, so the installed path will be empty
<jsierles>so this would also need python to be installed in the first place, right?
<jsierles>PYTHONPATH is set in the environment before running the build
<jsierles>so maybe i should run checks after install?
<rekado_>jsierles: that’s an option. We do this for some packages.
<rekado_>(I find it a bit ugly, but if the alternatives are uglier this is perfectly fine)
<jsierles>not sure what the alternative would be. so trying thta :)
<jsierles>does this look correct?
<jsierles>it still fails even with the install
<jsierles>can packages have circular propagated input references?
<jsierles>hmm. looks like the patches sent to the mailing list are different than what's in that git repo
<rekado_>jsierles: what do you mean by circular propagated input references?
<jsierles>i tried importing a newer version of this module. it has another module as a propagated input: python-ruamel.yaml.jinja2
<jsierles>that module has python-ruamel.yaml listed as one too
<jsierles>looks like that locks up the daemon actually
<jsierles>cant actually find where to get a conda tarball anymore.
<jsierles>rekado_: does it make any sense to try installing conda using its new installer?
<jsierles>it looks like using conda from pypi is now deprecated.
<rekado_>I don’t really use conda, so I’m not up-to-date there.
<jsierles>basically now conda manages its whole environment, and installs python within it
<jsierles>you would not really be using anything outside of conda at that point. so not sure how it would fit into a typical guix installation
<jsierles>you have either miniconda or anaconda. the former just installs python and dependencies to be able to install packages.
<rekado_>I don’t think we want to do this.
<jsierles>yeah. i saw some notes here but not sure how it would fit. conda is really trying to be a full on package manager. you can install R, fortran, etc with it
<jsierles>but, it's so widely used, it's hard to ignore.
<rekado_>it’s fine to use it as a package manager, but we don’t want it to download something during the build.
<rekado_>that wouldn’t work.
<jsierles>yeah. just gotta see if there's an offline installer
<rekado_>and since we already have Python and possibly most of the Python modules it needs we should just use those.
<rekado_>Conda cannot guarantee reproducibility anyway, so subtle differences in the variant of Python should not matter much anyway,
<jsierles>it doesn't need any modules
<rekado_>that makes it easier
<rekado_>fred’s patch set did include a couple of Python modules, though, didn’t it?
<jsierles>yes, but that seemed to be based on a pypi install of conda which is not supported anymore. you can see the archive tarballs he references for conda itself are gone now
<jsierles>to be clear, conda is now a fully binary installation
<jsierles>ah, looks like maybe we can still get it from a URL
<jsierles>sorry, i misunderstood the installation process. What it does it download a set of prepackaged modules and installs those using its own python
<jsierles>fred's patch doesn't include all of them. one of those is the module I mentioned above.
<jsierles>hard to find the actual package URLs now though. they are in the conda 'channels'
<jsierles>found them, will try again with the new URL
<jsierles>OK, managed to get conda installed, just skipped the tests for that module for now.
<jsierles>guess the confusion will be around how you'd use the python provided by conda.
<jellyeyedjim>Trying to install GuixSD
<jellyeyedjim>but when I run "guix system init /mnt/etc/config.scm /mnt"
<jellyeyedjim>i get "guix system: error failed to load '/,mt/etc/config.scm /mnt":
<jellyeyedjim>"ice-9/boot.scm:1700:9: ice-9/boot-9.scm:1700:9: In procedure scm_i_lreadparen: /mnt/etc/config.scm:46:1: end of file"
<jellyeyedjim>excuse typing error of /mnt
<rekado_>jellyeyedjim: did you create the file?
<jellyeyedjim>apparently not, now getting another error "ice-9/eval.scm:233:20: In procedure proc:"
<jellyeyedjim>"ice-9/eval.scm:233:20: Unbound variable: o"
<jellyeyedjim>ok yes i copied the file
<jellyeyedjim>and the "o" error was a typing error at start of config file
<jellyeyedjim>so it is reading
<jellyeyedjim>so i am back to error 1
<jellyeyedjim>"guix system: error failed to load '/,mt/etc/config.scm /mnt"
<jellyeyedjim>"ice-9/boot.scm:1700:9: ice-9/boot-9.scm:1700:9: In procedure scm_i_lreadparen: /mnt/etc/config.scm:46:1: end of file"
<rekado>this means you have a syntax error in the file
<jellyeyedjim>ok will analyse
<rekado>please post the configuration file to
<rekado>jellyeyedjim: you are missing a closing parenthesis at the very end
<jellyeyedjim>Like that?
<jellyeyedjim>error: invalid field specifier
<rekado>oh, wait
<rekado>your file-systems field is also wrong
<rekado>there’s a closing paren missing
<rekado>should be %base-file-systems)))
<rekado>and then remove the paren at the end
<jsierles>reading 'guix publish' it looks like using the cache could cause unintentional local builds, since it just returns a 404 if there is no cached copy. wouldn't it be better to wait and pass the generated cache through?
<jsierles>i'd like to use the cache but guarantee i will get a substitute if it exists, but not in the cache yet.
<jellyeyedjim>"<unknown location>: error: invalid field specifier"
<rekado>jellyeyedjim: please post the current version of your config.
<rekado>your file-systems declaration is all borked
<jellyeyedjim>ignore the missing text for first line
<jellyeyedjim>ok how so?
<rekado>you’ve got a lot of closing parens on the first line of file-systems, but that doesn’t make any sense.
<rekado>jellyeyedjim: I suggest using an editor that understands s-expressions.
<rekado>jellyeyedjim: when you edit this with zile or emacs you can jump forward over s-expressions with Ctrl-Alt-f
<rekado>that will show you where you have unexpectedly short or long (or just unbalanced) expressions.
<jellyeyedjim>this is my current
<jellyeyedjim>i will try zile
<rekado>still wrong
<rekado>your file-systems declaration does not end
<rekado> %base-file-systems)) should be %base-file-systems)))
<jellyeyedjim>i have tried both
<jellyeyedjim>so assume i have changed that
<jellyeyedjim>what else could be wrong?
<rekado>what’s the error?
<jellyeyedjim>how do i exit zile?
<jellyeyedjim>i am stuck, i normally use vi or nano
<rekado>Ctrl-X Ctrl-C
<rekado>(like emacs)
<jellyeyedjim>"<unknown location>: error: invalid field specifier"
<jellyeyedjim>rekado, are you having a look?
<jsierles>that error still means there's some parens missing
<jellyeyedjim>please have a look for me
<jellyeyedjim>I took the default desktop config, removed luks encryption section and removed gnome from list (i only want xfce)
<jsierles>ok that file looks ok to me.
<rekado>your file-systems section is still wrong
<rekado>sorry, my advice was wrong before
<rekado> (type "ext4") –> (type "ext4"))
<rekado>do you understand what this configuration does?
<jellyeyedjim>I have a rough idea
<rekado>file-systems takes a list of file systems
<rekado>%base-file-systems is such a list
<rekado>you prepend a single file system to that list with ‘cons’
<rekado>but in your config ‘file-system’ doesn’t end where it should
<rekado>your ‘file-system’ expression spans across %base-file-systems and that’s wrong
<jellyeyedjim>where should it end?
<jellyeyedjim>posted too soon
<jellyeyedjim>could you please copy my config to a new and make the corrections?
<jellyeyedjim>in the example here
<jellyeyedjim>it spans across %base-file-systems
<jsierles>jellyeyedjim: you can see there are two parens after the ext4 entry.
<jellyeyedjim>i have done that, it still doesn't fix it
<jsierles>and remove the third parens after base-file-systems
<jellyeyedjim>that is what i have now
<jsierles>parens have to match everywhere in the file. as rekado said it would be better to use an editor that finds the erorrs rather than us doing it for you
<jellyeyedjim>new error
<jellyeyedjim>unbound variable: nss-certs
<jellyeyedjim>look at the bottom the config
<rekado>nss-certs is defined in some module and you don’t include that module
<rekado>ACTION goes afk
<jellyeyedjim>thank you so much for the hel[
<jellyeyedjim>finally got it working!
<janneke>grmbl: Unknown # object: #\\<
<janneke>debugging would be easier when it printed what comes after #\\<
<civodul>janneke: yes, that's annoying
<civodul>actually 'gexp->sexp' could report these upfront
<civodul>rekado: yay for more texlive-tiny!
<civodul>rekado: newbie question: i want to plug in a MIDI instrument on my laptop and have some program play music and allow me to choose the instrument and so on, what package would you recommend? lv2?
<rekado>do you want the computer generate sound?
<rekado>then it would be MIDI instrument -> JACK -> synthesizer application
<rekado>most synthesizer applications have a JACK backne
<rekado>we have synthesizers in LV2 format, but they need a host, such as jalv (minimal) or ardour.
<rekado>we also have standalone programmes
<rekado>fluidsynth, for example, works with so called soundfonts.
<rekado>if you want many sounds of mediocre quality I suggest fluidsynth with the Fluid R3 GM sound font.
<rekado>you can obtain the soundfont here:
<civodul>rekado: so fluidsynth would seem like one of the simplest way to set that up, right?
<civodul>i just saw a demo of software that generates piano sounds in real time based on models of actual pianos, as opposed to fiddling with tons of piano samples
<civodul>but it's proprietary so that has me wondering if there's free software that does that
<rekado>piano synthesis is notoriously difficult
<rekado>I don’t think I have ever seen a free implementation of real-time physical modelling synthesis
<rekado>to answer the question: yes, fluidsynth is probably the easiest way to get started.
<rekado>you may want to use ‘patchage’ to visualise the connections between different applications.
<rekado>linux audio is a bit of a mess and it can be difficult to get started
<rekado>(I wonder what it would be like on the Hurd)
<rekado>in patchage you would see ports for JACK MIDI and ALSA MIDI, as well as JACK audio.
<rekado>they have different colours and you can only connect ports with the same colour.
<rekado>some tools use ALSA MIDI, others JACK MIDI. This can be a bit confusing.
<rekado>I should really write that series of blog posts about making music on GNU.
<efraim>sneek: later tell ng0 tell me more about enlightenment and screenlock, check and the substitutions in enlightenment, I didn't substitute suspend
<efraim>sneek: botsnack
<civodul>rekado: ok, thanks for all the pointers
<civodul>it does seem surprisingly difficult, indeed
<rekado>civodul: that’s mostly because different use cases require different audio system designs.
<civodul>do the proprietary OSes have a one-size-fits-all thing?
<rekado>for simple MIDI things: yes
<rekado>but on Windows, for example, it also recommended to use special low-latency drivers for professional purposes.
<adfeno>I just came by, can you tell me what is the issue with MIDI?
<rekado>on Windows it’s probably a little easier to switch the backends
<rekado>pulseaudio is very big but it works over network, bluetooth, etc. It covers all common desktop sound needs.
<rekado>but that makes it unacceptably slow for professional audio
<rekado>‘professional’ is not quite the right term.
<rekado>with MIDI you *do* care about processing latency
<rekado>but when watching a video through a browser you don’t
<adfeno>I'm not an audio expert, nor am I in contact with the projects I'll mention, but perhaps we can get suggestions from LMMS, Ardour, and TiMidity++.
<rekado>JACK2 has a feature that allows it to get started on demand via dbus; and it can temporarily suspend pulseaudio for you.
<rekado>but there really ought to be better coordination and integration of these tools.
<rekado>having to keep all of this in mind is why I can’t remember anyone’s birthdays…
<adfeno>I see lots of people complaining that PulseAudio + Jack2 = sound nightmare.
<rekado>civodul: feel free to write me your questions if at any time you get confused
<rekado>ACTION thinks about creating a service that configures audio/midi on GuixSD.
<roelj>Is something wrong with I get a lot of 403 ("Forbidden") messages..
<roelj>Oh.. nevermind, it seems to be blocked on our network.
<civodul>rekado: re birthdays :-)
<civodul>i'll do ping you if needed
<bavier`>civodul: do you mind if I ask what you need 64-bit integers in scotch for?
<quiliro>hello people
<quiliro>i have configured gnus to read my claws-mail folders
<quiliro>i will download the new messages now
<quiliro>i am configuring that
<civodul>bavier`: i made a package for PaSTiX, a sparse solver developed here, and it requires 64-bit integers
<quiliro>i wonder how to avoid read messages to be hiden, i saw it somewhere
<bavier`>civodul: cool.
<civodul>bavier`: and apparently people thought it's not that useful to use 32-bit integers on x86_64 anyway
<bavier`>civodul: integer abi in math libraries is sometimes difficult
<bavier`>civodul: interesting. makes sense. my own perspective might be off.
<quiliro>i will document my experience...where do you think would be good to place that doc?
<civodul>quiliro: for your experience with Claws-mail? i wouldn't know
<cehteh>whenever i do some package commands its "substitute: updating list of substitutes from '' ..." which is slow, can one turn this updating off, or wont it be better to have some ttl for the substitutes lists, 12 hours or something like that?
<cehteh>(wont that also reduce the load on hyda considerably)
<civodul>cehteh: yes, that's a problem, see
<cehteh>so how about the TTL idea, does that sound feasible?
<quiliro>civodul: no...document my experience installing GuixSD with email, web browsing, reproduction of audios and reproduction of videos, among other dayly tasks on my 2009 Macbook Air with EFI (no rEFInd).
<quiliro>with emacs
<cehteh>i mean on 'end user' machines it can be as long as 48 hours, while developers may want 0 or short times, just have a config somewhere and check the timestamp of the files if the file is older
<cehteh>sounds like a low hanging fruit to me
<civodul>quiliro: oh sure, that'd be useful
<cehteh>maybe have 2 (or more) classes for substitutes, for stable, volatile, grafts whatever
<civodul>maybe on a blog? dunno
<civodul>cehteh: there's already a TTL, though a recent message made me think there's a bug in this area
<cehteh>looking forward for it to be fixed :D
<quiliro>is there a guix wiki?
<quiliro>so i can add this and other things?
<quiliro>or it must be only a manual page
<quiliro>info i mean
<quiliro>of course info is easier to handle but i dont know anything about versioning
<quiliro>as you can see...i am an exerienced newbie or an inexperienced expert!
<balduin>hello, I would like to compile Xen for Guix. However, Xen requires bin86. Is there already a bin86 packages in Guix?
<balduin>I could not find anything by looking at the website, but it could be that bin86 is packaged under a different name. Any idea?
<adfeno>quiliro: I'm also not experienced, and I also don't know much about versioning.. :)
<quiliro>how to do this in emacs?: guix package -i xbacklight feh conky
<quiliro>adfeno: do yu collaborate with guix?
<thomassgn>Is there some way I can enter a build step for a package definition? Preferrably in a guile REPL like geiser. Trying to append a few lines to a file after unpack phase, ut it seems I'm not where I thought I was...
<rekado>thomassgn: you can only do ‘guix build -K foo’ and then look at the output
<rekado>you could also play with the output in a REPL
<rekado>but there’s no way to step through a package build
<rekado>sad, I know
<rekado>I’d love to have something like that
<Muto>I'm installing Guix on my machine, but when I run "ipconfig -a" it doesn't detect my wlp5s0 device. Not sure if the device is just not supported.
<rekado>Muto: what kind of device is it?
<quiliro>Muto: type: grep -i firmware /var/log/messages
<thomassgn>ah, so I could just eval the package definition in geiser, ofc...
<Muto>rekado: I have an MSI motherboard with built-in wifi (two little antenna come out the back), I use a hidden wifi address. Also I'll try that command
<quiliro>Muto: also type: lspci
<quiliro>what command?
<Muto>Okay, the machine I'm installing Guix on is in anothrer room here, so I'll write that down and be back, thanks!
<quiliro>Muto: do you have ethernet?
<quiliro>on that machine
<Muto>I have an Ethernet cable and a port on my mahcine, yes.
<quiliro>if you could connect to the network, you could install it remotely
<quiliro>and you would not need to walk back and forth
<quiliro>to report your errors
<Muto>That's a good idea.
<quiliro>perhaps it will take longer the first time, but you will certainly learn a lot
<quiliro>i suppose your wifi is not supported because supporting it would hinder your freedom...but that is not could be a bug
<quiliro>or an error on your part...which is improbable in this case
<quiliro>normally....ifconfig -a detects all wifi and ethernet
<Muto>Sounds possible, I'm going to try to conect to Ethernet here, sounds like a good idea. I'll be back in a few hours if I run into any trouble. Thanks for the tips though!
<quiliro>but an error on your part would be that the wifi kill switch is disconnecting the hardware on the machine
<quiliro>oh...he/she left
<adfeno>quiliro: To collaborate with Guix I know that, we must download a copy of guix repository if it's the first time contributing to Guix (`git clone ""`), update the existing copy (`guix pull` inside the "guix" directory that was made), ...
<adfeno>make the changes we want (since you want to contribute with documentation, then you probably want to change things inside the "doc" directory), commit our changes (`git commit -- [Paths to files you have changed.]`), ...
<adfeno>make our patch (`git format-patch HEAD~1`, this is a tilde, not a minus), move the .patch file to some safe place, send the .patch to guix-patches, and get your local copy of "guix" repository to go back to what the Guix project actually has (`git reset --hard HEAD~1`, again a tilde).
<bavier`>adfeno: creating a branch for you work also works well; no need for resets then
<adfeno>The "paths to files you have changed" assumes that you only changed existing files, and didn't add/remove/rename/move any file.
<quiliro> create a branck you need a username and password on the server?
<adfeno>Hm... this one has to be answered by someone more knowledgeable. :)
<bavier`>quiliro: no, git creates branches locally too
<adfeno>Also you can use git stash to store/save your changes and re-apply them in the future.
<adfeno>the `git stash` command, that is.
<quiliro>the instructions given by adfeno with the additions from bavier` would be a good read for someone like me to start contributing
<quiliro>it would be great to orient all hacking with emacs
<quiliro>is there some document of that sort?
<bavier`>quiliro: I usually use 'magit' with emacs
<quiliro>bavier`: is magit for dealing with git?
<bavier`>quiliro: yes. 'guix package -i magit'
<adfeno>Also, if I'm not mistaken, GNU Emacs has a mode to edit TeXinfo documents
<adfeno>So, inside Emacs you can do:
<adfeno>C-x C-f [Path to where your local "guix" repository is, without this braces]/doc/guix.texi RET
<adfeno>After this, unless I'm mistaken, you can answer "y" when Emacs tells you that "guix.texi" has variables that may not be safe.
<adfeno>While being asked about the possible-unsafe variables, you can also press C-v to scroll and see the variables yourself.
<roelj>Have a nice weekend, Guixers!
<quiliro>adfeno: thank you
<adfeno>quiliro: You're welcome :)
<quiliro>is there a verb form, adjective form, profesionist form, adverb form,etc for the noun 'guix'?
<quiliro>for example, how do you call the quality to be a guix or how do you cal a guix professional?
<adfeno>It was also hard for me in the beginning when I didn't understand much about version control systems (Git is only one of them), but with patience and dedication, I managed to learn at least the basics I just thought. :)
<quiliro>or how do you call someone using or hacking on guix?
<quiliro>i would call a guix user or hacker a guixter
<civodul>quiliro: people fiddling with Guix can be referred to, collectively, as "Guix"
<civodul>example: "Hello Guix!"
<quiliro>and the adjective of gomething or someone guix would be guixized
<quiliro>civodul: wouldnt it be better 'a la Esperanto'?
<quiliro>or Guixisto rather
<civodul>the truth is that people can call us anyway they want
<civodul>(as long as it's friendly)
<lfam>ACTION builds latest BIND updates
***Introoter is now known as TheRoo
<lfam>ACTION has built Git, GnuPG, and curl on core-updates
<civodul>lfam: cool, looks encouraging!
<lfam>Yeah, I think we are off to a good start!
<civodul>i started an evaluation earlier but it's not complete yet
<quiliro>why can i not open pdfs? emacs opens the code
<quiliro>does emacs need some package to use docview that is not installed by default in guixsd?
<janneke>sneek: later tell quiliro: docview simply uses gs (ghostscript) to process postscript
<sneek>Will do.
<janneke>sneek: botsnack
<sneek>Welcome back quiliro, you have 1 message.
<sneek>quiliro, janneke says: docview simply uses gs (ghostscript) to process postscript
<quiliro>janneke: guix package -i gs
<quiliro>is that right?
<quiliro>but i still dont know how to install guix packages from emacs
<quiliro>gs worked great ...thanks janneke
<quiliro>i mean guix packae -i ghostscript worked greatly
<efraim>By selecting GPLv3 we’ve made Mycroft less open, less collaborative and less useful than it would have been under more open licenses like MIT, BSD or Apache.
<efraim>Actually heres a clean link
<bavier`>efraim: too bad, imo. the gplv3 anti-tivoization clause would have been useful for something like mycroft.
<bavier`>especially considering the goal with the relicense to apache 2.0 seems to be to get mycroft into more user devices, now means those vendors have no obligation to allow users to modify the bundled mycroft. net-loss for the user :(
<lfam>Another evaluation error for core-updates on Hydra:
<lfam>Any ideas?
<noobly_>Can I run nonfree software on GuixSD?
<bavier`>noobly_: Guix officially only includes free-software packages. For nonfree software, you'll need to look elsewhere, or create the package definitions yourself.
<lfam>noobly_: GNU Guix and GuixSD are committed to providing free software, and are free software themselves. That means that you can run any software you want, but we won't provide non-free software for you, and the Guix official communications channels and other infrastructure won't be used for non-free software.
<noobly_>Ok, and is it possible to run with nonfree wifi drivers? Or is that something I'd have to do myself as well? That's what's stopping me from switching over more than anything.
<noobly_>And, to be clear, if I was seeking the tools to run on nonfree wifi drivers, this communication channel would not be an appropriate place to ask?
<lfam>noobly_: It's definitely possible to use non-free wifi drivers, but we don't provide them. And you're right, this channel is the official Guix IRC channel, so it's not the place to get specific help with those drivers.
<janneke>quiliro: yw
<quiliro>noobly_: what problem do you have?
<quiliro>maybe there is a free that respects you
<quiliro>and does not make you a tool for a corporation
<noobly_>quiliro: I would have to get a new wifi chip to have internet with GuixSD
<quiliro>to make money or worse things
<noobly_>Which I'm completely willing to do, but can't at the moment
<quiliro>i have one...i use a usb wifi card
<quiliro>noobly_: why?
<bavier`>noobly_: the usb wifi adapters from thinkpengiun and technoetic are reasonable priced
<quiliro>there are some cheap ones...or ethernet too
<quiliro>noobly_: freedom might cost....but you can get compatible ones...the best is to take your system to the vendor and test the device
<quiliro>that is the simples
<quiliro>noobly_: believe looks like a bad option....but if you think about it long enough....defending people against corporational control is much more important....if you resist, you help with your smal contribution
<quiliro>noobly_: if you dont help, those corporations are even more powerful against us
<noobly_>quiliro: I agree completely but no mulas for a wfi card right now lol, so I guess I'll wait a bit unless I dig up a work around
<quiliro>so noobly_ do not have to use free software only...but your decision is important
<quiliro>noobly_: there are cards as cheap as 10 usd
<quiliro>check ebay
<noobly_>quiliro: yes but I have to save every little penny right now for a move coming up
<bavier`>noobly_: good luck with the move
<noobly_>quiliro: haha yeah, precisely. and thank you bavier`, it should be a profitable one, so I'll have GuixSD soon enough :p
<bavier`>noobly_: sounds good
<quiliro>wow...i never thought a person that had enough money to get a computer could not have 10 usd
<bavier`>quiliro: I've used my fair share of hand-me-downs in the past
<bavier`>which don't always come with ideal hardware
<quiliro>bavier`: there are new device too
<quiliro>bavier`: all my hardware is a hand me down
<quiliro>i recicle
<quiliro>i recovered this macbook air
<quiliro>it is better than any new hardware i have had
<quiliro>light, tough, reliable,
<quiliro>it was heating
<quiliro>i had a friend clean it and resolder any heated components
<quiliro>works marvelously with GuixSD
<quiliro>booted with 0.13 usb installer and used lighweight-desktop.scm...just had to include EFI partition and bootloader configuration
<quiliro>by the way, i did not configure swap on the configuration file... it is needed on the default config
<lfam>That's great news.
<adfeno>efraim bavier`: About Mycroft, I'm somewhat puzzled, it seems Mycroft misunderstood how to use the GNU GPL.
<adfeno>It seems that Mycroft things that the only way to license code under GNU GPL is to publish it publicly.
<adfeno>Also, as I also explained earlier in #gnu, GNU [AL]GPL and FDL they serve the purpose of preserving software freedom for everyone, but for this, it's required that the license says that no non-free adaptations will be made (respected of course, the particular differences when talking about the GNU LGPL).
<janneke>just fetched master and now system reconfigure gives
<janneke>guix system: error: build failed: directory `/homeless-shelter' exists; please remove it
<lfam>NIMBYs :(
<quiliro>mycroft does not missunderstand...they are right...they might risk all their patents by using the gpl
<quiliro>too bad they noticed
<quiliro>perhaps we could use that possibility on other devices that have used the gpl
<quiliro>is the following correct?:
<quiliro> (swap-devices '("/dev/sda3"))
<quiliro>for guix system reconfigure config.scm
<janneke>ACTION git reset --hard 79bfa6382
<quiliro>i have a problem with the keyboard...i get an error with loadkeys dvorak-es which i did not get with the installer
<quiliro>~ $ loadkeys dvorak-es
<quiliro>Couldn't get a file descriptor referring to the console
<quiliro>i used that command when installing but it would not install the system with that keyboad
<quiliro>why do i get 'Couldn't get a file descriptor referring to the console'?
<lfam>So, if I get an error like "guix package: error: profile contains conflicting entries for libunistring:out", what do I need to do? Should I update all the packages in the profile?
<davidl>I need a little help with loading a separate .scm file to my guix system reconfigure config.scm command.
<davidl>I used GUIX_LOAD_PATH=/dir/file.scm guix system reconfigure config.scm but it complains "no code for module (my-module)"
<davidl>I have added (my-module) to the (use modules (gnu) .. line in config.scm and started the file.scm with (define module (my-module)) and then (define-public 10-gpu "some text")
<lfam>david1: Here's what works for me:
<lfam>In my configuration file I import the external module: (use-modules (gnu) (leo packages openssh))
<lfam>The module lives at ~/pkgs/leo/packages/openssh.scm
<lfam>It is defined with (define-module (leo packages openssh) ...)
<thomassgn>hmm, trying to eval a package definition in geiser using the guix-development-mode in emacs. It seems to run for ever, however I launch the evaluation. Started linting (with C-c . l) and it's still running. The definition is small, like 46 lines, and running guix build -K fpm2 in a terminal finishes (with an errror, the one I'm trying to debug) in seconds. Is there some way I can get some feedback from the
<thomassgn>geiser/emacs process?
<davidl>lfam: I see, Ill try that. Thank you.
<lfam>david1: And my GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH is /home/me/pkgs
<lfam>With that, it works
<quiliro>thank you for your help guixistoj
<rain1>i wanted to try guix in mkroot
<rekado>Since the glibc graft I can no longer install already built software when I’m offline.
<lfam>rekado: You too?
<lfam>I noticed this behavior before the graft, actually. But now it's widespread.
<lfam>rekado: I sent a vague report here:
<lfam>So, perhaps it affects all packages that are grafted, I'm not sure
<davidl>lfam: it doesn't work. You were using GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH and I used GUIX_LOAD_PATH which works to find the module but it still says "no code for module (xorg-conf)"
<davidl>lfam: I think the issue has to do with writing "(define-public 10-gpu "some text")"
<davidl>can I have only text-strings define and still load them as a module like this?
<davidl>the full error line is "ice-9/boot-9.scm:2795:6: no code for module (xorg-conf)"
<quiliro>how can i run tor?
<quiliro>so i can run 'torify emacs'
<quiliro>i tested 'sudo herd status tor'
<thomassgn>quiliro: I have (tor-service (local-file "/home/thomas/guixsd/dotfiles/etc/tor/torrc")) under services.
<quiliro>but tor does not exist
<quiliro>oh...i installed it in the user
<thomassgn>not sure if local-file is a guile thing or not.
***robmyers_ is now known as robmyers
<quiliro>i ran tor on another terminal
<quiliro>and torify emacs on yet another
<quiliro>but i cannot enter
<quiliro>i am behind a firewall
<quiliro>i ran tor as the same user
<quiliro>now i installed tor on root
<quiliro>but herd status tor says there is not such a service
<quiliro>oh//it is tor-service
<quiliro>thanks thomassgn
<quiliro>thomassgn: why /home/thomas/guixsd/dotfiles/etc/tor/torrc
<quiliro>can i use any name or must i create the file?
<quiliro>and directories
<rekado>you can use any path
<rekado>thomassgn just has the tor configuration file at that location
<rekado>you can use any path you want (it just needs to exist and contain a valid configuration)
<quiliro>where do i find the configuration?
<quiliro>is the default good?
<rekado>I just use the default, but I don’t have any special requirements anyway
<quiliro>rekado: so where did you copy the file from?
<quiliro>\\where did you copy the configuration from? can the file be empty? may i not specify a configuration file?
<quiliro>in order to use the deafults?
<rekado>yes, you can leave off the argument
<rekado>just use (tor-service)
<quiliro>will ' (services (tor-service) %desktop-services)' work correctly?
<rekado>‘services’ expects a list of services
<rekado>%desktop-services is a list of services
<rekado>(tor-service) is a single service
<rekado>so you have to combine these two things, the single service and the list
<quiliro>how do i do that?
<rekado>…so that you get a single list of services
<rekado>in Scheme you do that with ‘cons’
<rekado>(cons 1 (list 2 3))
<rekado>(services (cons (tor-service) %desktop-services))
<rekado>you can also append lists with ‘append’
<rekado>(services (append (list (tor-service) (some-other-service)) %desktop-services))
<rekado>or you can use cons* to just take a bunch of services and cons them onto a list consecutively
<quiliro>(services (cons (tor-service) %desktop-services)) is what i used now..will test it...thank you for the tutorial..will save it
<rekado>(cons* (tor-service) (gate-service) (door-service) %some-list-of-services)
<quiliro>i have an error:
<quiliro>/home/quiliro/lightweight-desktop.scm:46:12: /home/quiliro/lightweight-desktop.scm:46:12: In procedure module-lookup: Unbound variable: tor-service
<rekado>that means that your configuration file (which is a scheme programme) does not know what ‘tor-service’ is. It is defined in some module that your programme does not load.
<rekado>you will need to load (gnu services networking)
<rekado>you can either do this with (use-service-modules … networking …)
<rekado>or with (use-modules (gnu services networking))
<rekado>‘use-service-modules’ is just more convenient syntax for the latter.
<quiliro>i have:
<quiliro>(use-modules (gnu) (gnu system nss))
<quiliro>(use-service-modules desktop)
<quiliro>so i can change to:
<quiliro>(use-modules (gnu) (gnu system nss))
<quiliro>(use-service-modules desktop networking)
<rekado>(use-service-modules desktop networking)
<quiliro>thank you
<rekado>alternatively, you could do (use-modules (gnu) (gnu system nss) (gnu services networking))
<rekado>that’s what you would do in normal Guile programmes where ‘use-service-modules’ would not be defined
<rekado>(that’s a Guix feature)
<rain1>what is the most minimal chroot that i can install and use guix in?
<quiliro>rekado: thank you...i will study what you have told me so i can understand better
<quiliro>i will review the chat log and study what you said in the manuals when i am offline
<quiliro>oh...i get it was the other alternative...i will have to study what each one does
<rekado>quiliro: if you have time to play a bit I recommend just trying out a few things in the Guile REPL.
<quiliro>i willbut when offline
<rekado>that’s how I learned to love Scheme.
<quiliro>what is the repl?
<rekado>it’s an abbreviation that stands for:
<quiliro>how do i test them?
<quiliro>what is it for?
<rain1>guile scheme !
<rekado>it’s the thing you get when running ‘guile’
<quiliro>i will need to read
<rekado>it gives you a prompt
<quiliro>i have seen it on emacs
<rekado>when you submit something to that prompt it will
<quiliro>on another buffer
<rekado>1. read the expression
<rekado>2. evaluate it
<rekado>3. print a result
<quiliro>and 4?
<rekado>4. and loop back to print a prompt
<quiliro>so it is the guile command line or something?
<rekado>yes, that’s what it is.
<quiliro>what can i do to experiment?
<rekado>the abbreviation just gives you a bit more information on what’s happening
<rekado>for example, play with ‘cons’, ‘define’, ‘+’, ‘list’, and quasiquotation
<rekado>and quotation
<rekado>the difference between ‘(list 1 2 3)’ and ‘'(list 1 2 3)’
<quiliro>will i need link to the net to use it?
<thomassgn>quiliro: sorry, wasn't paying attention, I'm using that directory as a repo of dotfiles in combination with gnu stow
<rekado>quiliro: no, you can do this offline
<thomassgn>as rekado said, you can point it at whatever valid torrc you wish
<quiliro>thomassgn: thanks
<rekado>here’s quasiquotation and unquoting: `(1 2 ,(- 4 1) 4 5)
<rekado>quiliro: one more thing to play with is ‘let’ for binding variables temporarily
<quiliro>what is so great about guile scheme?
<rekado>(let ((+ -)) (+ 3 2))
<rekado>quiliro: it is a language with a very simple syntax that offers surprising flexibility
<rekado>you can easily write your own language extensions in it
<rekado>you can write new syntax without having to do anything special
<rain1>and guix is made with guile scheme :)
<rekado>here’s one example: (define-syntax-rule (infix x op y) (op x y))
<rekado>now you can do this: (infix 1 + 2)
<rekado>instead of (+ 1 2)
<quiliro>ruby is not simpler?
<rekado>ruby is a nice language, too
<rekado>but I would argue that it is much more opinionated and thus less flexible
<quiliro>what is that?
<rekado>it has strong opinions
<rekado>ruby says ‘everything is an object’
<quiliro>what would be a problem for that
<rekado>and that decision has implications on how you design programmes
<rekado>it’s not a problem.
<rekado>it just means that object oriented programming is the preferred style in Ruby, whereas other styles can be more awkward.
<quiliro>i dont know the difference
<quiliro>but i can understand that limits can be a problem
<rekado>that’s okay
<rekado>if you know Ruby already you may find that Scheme is not so very different after all. Ruby has lots of features that look like they were adopted from Scheme.
<quiliro>if i could get 500 computers from the ministry of education to run guixsd, could we use them as a cluster for the guix project (for using the excess computing poewer)?
<quiliro>i dont know much ruby
<thomassgn>HAH! I frickin made a package for Guix! woop woop. No Idea why this works and not before. But it now works :)
<quiliro>thomassgn: great! i am going to learn too....would you please document your experience?
<quiliro>not 500 computers is something like 50000
<thomassgn>hehe, I would if I could :P
<quiliro>but could start with a pilot if i can convince them.....would that power be useful for us?
<quiliro>the computing power would be useful for guix project?
<quiliro>thomassgn: write up the steps you took
<quiliro>one by one
<thomassgn>I work on guix when I have time and energy in my spare time, which is maybe a few hours a month. Sometimes more. In addition a lot of my "work" is just fumbling around. :P
<quiliro>thomassgn: if you document your work you can use it to remind you how to do things next time
<quiliro>thomassgn: and by the way you can help new hackers like me
<rekado>quiliro: *excess* computing power isn’t so useful for us, unfortunately, because we cannot easily distribute compilation tasks to separate machines.
<rekado>quiliro: *dedicated* computing power is what we would need.
<quiliro>rekado: perhaps we can build a cluster to make one big computer with all of them
<quiliro>rekado: and then we cna have a big dedicated machine with that
<rekado>quiliro: clusters depend on the ability to split a big task into many small tasks that can be performed in parallel on different machines.
<quiliro>compiling cannot be done on a cluster then?
<rekado>I have no idea how this would be done for building packages.
<bavier`>package dependency graph doesn't have a ton of room for parallelisation
<rekado>the build process of individual packages could be parallelised in theory, but there are diminishing returns when sending chunks of work to different systems
<rekado>(because all those chunks have to be collected again)
<bavier`>things like distcc have worked before
<catonano>thomassgn: whohoo !!
<bavier`>but again, diminishing returns, and guix-daemon can't do distcc
<quiliro>an error when using 'torify emacs': 1498852853 ERROR torsocks[13436]: Unable to resolve. Status reply: 4 (in socks5_recv_resolve_reply() at socks5.c:683)
<quiliro>and the browser is unable to resolve names
<quiliro>and i checked tor is running
<rekado>sneek later tell quiliro I haven’t tried ‘torify emacs’, but ‘torsocks emacs’ works for me; eww is torified.
<sneek>Got it.
<rekado>sneek: botsnack