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<civodul>ACTION just listened to paroneayea's GNU & Lisp talk
<civodul>so energizing!
<quiliro>This is what claws-mail developer says: "you probably do not have Fancy because your OS does not ship webkitgtk library, which is what Fancy uses to render html"
<quiliro> and "all current plugins are included with the main source code"
<quiliro>fancy is a plugin for claws-mail
<bavier1>rust takes a while to build
<buenouanq>spray it with salt water
<bavier1>that'll really speed things up ;)
<bavier1>I guess it's maybe not slower than gcc
<bavier1>I just need to debug a test failure, and forgot to use -K the first time...
<lfam>bavier1: Rough! I've thought about automatically keeping build directories and garbage collecting them later
<bavier1>lfam: export GUIX_BUILD_OPTIONS="-K"
<lfam>Whenever I get around to making a huge /tmp :)
<bavier1>I just updated my ~/.bash_profile with that; I guess I'll see how my disk space suffers
<lfam>Some packages require several gigabytes, so if you're actively working on them it will add up
<mekeor>is there any browser which (*) is packaged for guix and (*) can be run with torsocks and (*) understands javascript?
<mekeor>i tried surf (doesn't support torsocks) and netsurf (doesn't support javascript?) and icecat (doesn't support torsocks)
<buenouanq>I assume Icecat.
<buenouanq>oh, I guess not
<buenouanq>what is torsocks?
<mekeor>it's like torify
<mekeor>it makes a program use tor
<buenouanq>why can't Icecat into it?
<buenouanq>can stock FF?
<lfam>buenouanq: Have you looked at epiphany?
<buenouanq>just forget about tor and start using gnunet :3
<buenouanq>lfam: the Gnome one? doesn't seem terrible
<mekeor>does epiphany support torsocks?
<lfam>Thanks for finding out :)
<mekeor>well, i configured icecat to use tor. works fine
<buenouanq>highly recommend installing uBlock Origin and uMatrix asap
<mekeor>i know, i know
<Lijero>Alright, I've got a fresh install of guix x86 on an old computer using the download as of today. Installation was fine with no errors (though at first there was an issue with e2fsprogs failing to download and the computer thinking it was still 2005), and it's just the base install with dhcp, lsh, and encrypted luks. I got in on SSH fine, set the passwords, ran ssh-copy-id, guix package -u, and now I'm running guix pull, and that's
<Lijero>all I've done. ssh-copy-id copied the key correctly (I checked) but I still have to enter my password as if it didn't (lsh doesn't do that?), and guix pull returns this error: -- any idea what might be wrong?
<bavier1>Lijero: do you have the "nss-certs" package installed?
<bavier1>one of rust's tests runs their "tidy" tool on the source base, and fails when it encounters a line where we patch "/bin/sh" to "/gnu/store/...-bash/bin/sh" because it ends up being more than 100 characters long...
<bavier1>I guess we could patch the column limit
<lfam>Lijero: You're having the errors failure on GuixSD?
<lfam>Lijero: If so, is the date still 2005? Incorrect dates will cause problems with TLS since the certificates have birth and expiration dates.
<bavier1>ok, rust package patched; doing final check build
<quiliro>why do i see wrong characters in some emails in claws-mail and not on others?
<quiliro>'p�blico' instead of 'público'
<quiliro>for example
<quiliro>but it is not on all emails, encoding is on automatic
<quiliro>and besides automatic, i tested iso8859-1, utf8, iso-8859-15
<felixdz>Is Gnome Boxes available in guix? If yes what package do you need to install?
<quiliro>guix package -s boxes
<quiliro>i think it is not available
<quiliro>felixdz: maybe it comes as part of another package
<felixdz>quiliro, Thanks for reply. I looked through the package list. I am wondering if it is part of another package or something I need to build from git.
<quiliro>i don't think so
<quiliro>i have checked other distros and they have it as a separate package
<quiliro>but i don't know
<quiliro>felixdz: maybe ask here later
<quiliro>why don't you build it yourself ./configure, make, make install
<rekado>felixdz: AFAIK it has not been packaged yet.
<Lijero>bavier1, lfam: Sorry, I walked away to get back to painting, and totally forgot that I asked for help. I just manually set the time because it was breaking installations/builds, and now I'm trying to install ntp and nss-certs, which probably will fix the problems. However, binary installations always fail due to corrupt archives or something, and building derivations can take a while because it's an old computer. It's already been
<Lijero>running for a good while, but I'll respond when I get results.
<rekado>quiliro: re “fancy” plugin: it is not built because the “claws-mail” package does not have “webkitgtk/gtk+-2” among its inputs.
<lfam>Lijero: Okay, let us know if you continue to get that TLS error once your clock is correct. nss-certs isn't necessary for pulling the Guix source code, by the way. We provide those certificates in a different package (le-certs).
<rekado>quiliro: that’s on purpose because “webkitgtk/gtk+-2” (as well as “webkitgtk-2.4”) is outdated and should not be used.
<rekado>quiliro: maybe you can petition the developers to switch to the latest webkitgtk. It provides a very different API, so this may not be straight-forward.
<rekado>quiliro: you can create a local package variant like this:
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<SovereignBleak>Any GuixSD users using EXWM?
<Lijero>lfam, looks like it was the clock. Now that I set the clock and installed ntp, everything appears to work fine, though I'm not going to search deeper tonight. Thanks.
<lfam>Glad to hear it
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<civodul>Hello Guix!
<catonano>civodul: hey civodul !
<wiedzmin>Hi all, is MATE supported in GuixSD yet?
<wiedzmin>Can't stomach GNOME 3
<civodul>wiedzmin: MATE no, but there's Xfce and LXDE
<civodul>not sure if that helps
<SovereignBleak>Is it all StumpWM users here or has anyone dipped their toes in EXWM?
<buenouanq>I'm currently on Gnome ( ._.)
<buenouanq>prolly switch back to Xfce here at some point and continue to wait patiently for guile-wm
<buenouanq>As a full DE, Gnome's pretty nice though actually - It's really cohesive and polished.
<catonano>buenouanq: I agree. And there's a tiling windows extension, if you really want that
<wiedzmin>I understand GNOME works... but it really feels like the project is trying to do too much. I am not a huge fan of the way the are encouraging the implementation of Javascript either.
<wiedzmin>Right now Wayland is the best thing it has going.
<wiedzmin>Once MATE has a Wayland compositor, I feel like it will be MY perfect desktop environment.
<wiedzmin>For starters, I have no idea why the GNOME devs have made their title bars so big. This should be a non-issue and I don't want to have edit CSS files and install 10 extensions to try and emulate what MATE gives me.
<catonano>it's strange. Sometimes I find title bars are too small
<catonano>But I agree on Javascript
<wiedzmin>Well, my X200 only has a 1280x800 screen.
<catonano>They had problems with Vala so probably they wanted a full blown language. And it had to be popular
<wiedzmin>But even when I use my 1440p monitor the bulkiness I find disruptive.
<wiedzmin>What problems did they have with Vala?
<catonano>wiedzmin: there's an app to tweak settings. It's called gnome tweak tool. It's even here on GuixSD
<catonano>There's a blog post by Michael Catanzaro about the problems they ahd with Vala
<catonano>long story short, they can't keep up
<catonano>mantaining a compiler and libraries iis hard
<wiedzmin>OK thanks, and I used GNOME for an extended period with the tweak tool.
<catonano>building community on a domani specific language is hard
<wiedzmin>But, as stated above, I found that I was simply trying to emulate what MATE gave me out of the box.
<wiedzmin>Whilst being far less efficient with resources.
<wiedzmin>And I don't think it is possible to achieve a mint style menu.
<SovereignBleak>Does the GuixSD install image still not support EFI?
<catonano>ok, ok, I thought you might be interested ;-)
<wiedzmin>Thanks :)
<SovereignBleak>I'm finally making the switch over from NixOS but the lack of an ISO and now what appears to be non-existent EFI support is really putting a damper on my sails.
<catonano>SovereignBleak: I'm afraid not yet. I saw some discussions about it recently
<catonano>SovereignBleak: Ludo managed to install with EFI but it's not in thhe manal yet
<SovereignBleak>catonano: Damn.
<SovereignBleak>catonano: Has Ludo documented his procedure?
<civodul>ACTION has a port of Guile-SSH to Guile 2.2.0 \\o/
<civodul>SovereignBleak: re EFI, there's
<civodul>the forthcoming release will have an EFI installation image
<civodul>if you don't feel like embarking on this, perhaps you should wait for the next release (hopefully in a couple of weeks or so)
<brendyn>Is guile-wm just a fantasy?
<civodul>it's kinda buggy
<rekado>I’ve been using stumpwm for a while and I find it kinda buggy too :(
<rekado>the question for me is whether guile-wm is more buggy than stumpwm
<SovereignBleak>civodul: I think I will wait since changing my computer into BIOS/UEFI boot and attempting to now boot the USB drive hangs after grub. Not sure if that’s related.
<SovereignBleak>The gods seem intent on barring me from making this happen today.
<catonano>SovereignBleak: ;-)
<civodul>rekado: it probably is, but it's "almost there" as we say
<civodul>so it's just a matter of finding a hero to really get it there
<civodul>commitment is the hardest problem in free software!
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<rekado>there are so many projects I’d like to contribute to, but there are too many things competing for the same few chunks of time
<jonsger>i3-wm is quite stable :)
<quiliro>rekado: where do i put that local package variant you suggest?
<rekado>quiliro: The manual explains in section “6.5 Package Modules” how to do this.
<rekado>quiliro: you would create a new module and add that to the GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH
<quiliro>rekado: will read and try...thank you.
<quiliro>rekado: claw-mail dev says: 'latest webkit-gtk is for gtk 3'
<quiliro>rekado: i have read now section “6.5 Package Modules” basically suggest to copy the contents of to ‘my/claws.scm’ file relative to the load path specified with
<quiliro>or ‘GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH’
<rekado>basically: yes.
<rekado>but you’ll need a bit more than the contents of that paste
<rekado>give me a few minutes
<quiliro>i have no idea
<quiliro>but do not spend time on that unless you think it is essential
<quiliro>you have more urgent stuff to do for guix
<quiliro>it is not crucial to get "fancy" in claws-mail
<quiliro>it is more important to have aspell working
<quiliro>and there must be even more important things
<quiliro>rekado: by the way, i saw your latest presentation at fisl or fosdem
<quiliro>i think it is the first
<quiliro>i will copy for my presentation at flisol quito, ecuador
<quiliro>"Empaquetador de Software Libre Guix"
<rekado>you’re welcome to copy and adapt the slides!
<quiliro>rekado: :-)
<quiliro>rekado: i have learned a lot now with this paste
<rekado>quiliro: yay :) I’m glad it helps.
<thomasd>any pointers on how to set up root's environment so I can run `sudo gparted' on GuixSD? I have the feeling I'm missing something obvious :)
<civodul>Mathieu`: thanks for investigating the gettext thing!
<civodul>i'll forward to bug-gnulib and see what they think
<Mathieu`>ok cool ! The gettext patch seems sufficient for me but it only deals with one of the three instances of test-lock program.
<Mathieu`>(in gettext: ./gnulib/tests/test-lock.c, ./gettext-tools/gnulib-tests/test-lock.c and ./gettext-runtime/tests/test-lock.c)
<civodul>hmm ok
<Mathieu`>thomasd: you can install gparted as a user and then run sudo -E gparted
<thomasd>Mathieu` : thanks a lot!
<wingo>civodul: for guix potluck sandboxes i am thinking we should just list all the bindings available to potlock .scm files in guix instead of importing sets of bindings defined in guile
<wingo>that would give a bit more stability
<wingo>like you can be sure that the set won't grow over time. probably there will be fewer bindings there than the sets mentioned in guile's sandbox
<wingo>sound ok to you?
<wingo>ACTION v v close to having a working thing
<civodul>wingo: agreed, that sounds safer
<civodul>very short time-to-user, i'm really impressed!
<civodul>i'd like to have an interactive thing that would do like "guix system extension-graph"
<civodul>except that you could click on the nodes and see the results
<civodul>perhaps something in Emacs
<civodul>alezost if you read this... :-)
<civodul>otherwise some d3.js thing i guess
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<nee`>Hello, I just did a guix pull and reconfigure on guixSD, then I accidently logged into gnome3 and noticed it runs very smooth on my nvidia card now. It had been unusably slow before. So, a thank you to everyone.
<rekado>nee`: nice! That’s probably because we enabled LLVM support in mesa.
<nee`>rekado: also, thank you for your hint about multiple paths in GIT_SSL_CAINFO the other day, removing one fixed https cloning for me.
<wingo>bah, when is guix requiring guile 2.2
<civodul>wingo: i finished "porting" guile-ssh to 2.2
<civodul>so whenever a new guile-ssh release comes out, we can go
<wingo>wow :) i just went from "guix potluck init" in guile-jpeg to building a package in just a couple minutes
<wingo>that's pretty cool
<wingo>how do i fix that thing where "git fetch" on a guix server doesn't find git-upload-pack?
<lfam>wingo: I haven't had that issue connecting to GuixSD Git server before
<lfam>But I suppose it could be a PATH issue related to the SSH shell initialiation with Guix on another distro
<wingo>i don't have git in the global environmnet
<wingo>which i think bayfront etc do have in the global env
<wingo>it's just in the user env
<wingo>this is on a guixsd machine
<lfam>Ah. I keep it in the global packages on my GuixSD server to work around this issue. That sets up the PATHs correctly
<wingo>humm. i guess i can do that. seems a little silly tho
<lfam>Apparently there are Git configuration keys like uploadpack and receivepack that take a path to the relevant executables
<wingo>that you would use on the client? this is for ssh access
<lfam>Also command-line flags like --upload-pack and --receive-pack
<lfam>Yes, they are paths to the remote executables
<wingo>ACTION just adds git globablly
<lfam>GuixSD *does* offer well-known absolute paths for executables in /var/guix/profiles/per-user/..., and those are safe to use for this sort of thing in my experience
<lfam>But, it's tedious
<lfam>Globablly is a great typo :) Global + babel
<civodul>BTW Guile-Git will be a dependency of Guix sooner or later
<wingo>oh that's interesting
<wingo>i guess i get to replace my git wrapper module at some point
<wingo>ACTION still copies the one in tekuti around where he needs it
<OrangeShark>ACTION needs to get back to working on guile-git
<m-o>civodul: I saw bruno answer for gettext, and tried to patch both test-lock.c files
<m-o>civodul: everything seems fine, test complete almost immediately !
<m-o>I can propose a patched gettext to address this issue if you're ok ?
<civodul>OrangeShark: indeed ;-)
<civodul>m-o: awesome!
<civodul>m-o: yes, feel free to propose a patch for core-updates
<civodul>i guess we're screwed for master at this point :-/
<m-o>ok, no graft for master gettext so ?
<wingo>how do i install guile-gnutls for guile 2.2?
<wingo>--with-input=guile=guile@2.2 ?
<wingo>ah there is guile2.2-gnutls
<wingo>sorry :)
<wingo>my job here is to make everyone else look like they know what they are doing
<lfam>Please don't put me out of work wingo ;)
<wingo>we can race to the bottom, a zen-like state of zero knowledge
<bavier>enter the void
<quiliro>rekado: it worked...fancy plugin in claws
<quiliro>will it be incorporated in guix?
<lfam>quiliro: You used this package?
<bavier>I wouldn't see any problem with adding webkit to claws-mail, if we assume it is most likely going to be in the store anyhow
<lfam>quiliro: We won't be able to incorporate it, because webkitgtk/gtk+-2 is an old version of webkit that contains *many* security bugs. Currently, the only Guix package that uses it is GnuCash, but GnuCash is working to update, and then we will remove webkitgtk/gtk+-2 from Guix
<lfam>bavier: If claws-mail can use a recent webkitgtk, then it's okay
<bavier>I overlooked the dependency on version 2
<lfam>It's a shame, there is not much development attention going towards mail clients since almost everyone is using a web client now
<lfam>Here we see Fedora discussing the issue:
<bavier>I'm looking at Roundcube's INSTALL right now, and not getting the impression that it would be easy to package or run as a user.
<quiliro>lfam: claw-mail dev says: 'latest webkit-gtk is for gtk 3'
<lfam>quiliro: Here is the discussion on the claws-mail bug tracker:
<bavier>and Rainloop might not be any better, with its dependency on jquery
<wingo>ok! let's see if i can get this guix potluck server finished.
<catonano>Gnome has a thing going for newcomers. A "builder" application that is like Apple XCode, as far as I understand. But it's based on Flatpack, or something. Are Flatpack bundles compatible with the Guix approach ? Is it any different from, say, Chrome bundling half the internet ?
<catonano>Also, I read they are writing a layer in Rust to implement their GObjects in Ruust, in a Valaesque style. Will the Guile virtual machine have to be rewritten in Rust ? Maybe it will use Rust in the same way Cloure uses Java ?
<catonano>Of course I won't live long enough to see any of this; this was speculation. This happens to me when Spring comes in
<quiliro>lfam: claws dev says: "arch linux offers the dillo plugin instead, the submitter says, but that is less secure for our purposes"
<quiliro>"because it doesn't allow blocking remote content"
<quiliro>"i feel that if you have the fancy plugin to block remote content, to not execute javascript and java, and disable plugins, then it's fine for my purposes"
<civodul>quiliro: i saw you're going to give a talk about Guix, that's great!
<civodul>wingo: re sandbox and binding white list, i wonder at what point it would make sense to use sexp-as-data instead of restricted Scheme + sandbox
<civodul>of course sexps would be less flexible and we'd have to write a small "interpreter" if we want to add computational facilities
<civodul>Hail, a hydra-related thing for "pull-based continuous deployment":
<civodul>not sure i fully understand what this means
<davexunit>"continuous deployment" is a phrase used by web dev companies for when you automatically deploy to production whenever a build passes CI
<civodul>yes, i get this, but dunno, i don't imagine myself doing that
<civodul>you'd better have very good test suite coverage
<davexunit>oh, sorry, I thought you weren't sure what it meant
<davexunit>yeah that's what the TDD people encourage anyway
<davexunit>their claim is that if the tests are comprehensive you can automate releases
<davexunit>I still like to have control over deployment
<civodul>i'm also unsure about the "pull-based" part, seems to make it harder to really know what the status is
<civodul>OTOH it does sound like a natural extension of CI, in principle
<civodul>dunno, i guess i'm a bit old-fashioned ;-)
<quiliro>civodul: thank you! i plan to "shut up and show the freedom" on my talk
<davexunit>ACTION wonders where his ruby gemfile parser code went off to
<davexunit>I think I could get mastodon packaged somewhat quickly if I had that
<quiliro>i don't know much about guix but i can show generations, rollbacks, installation of multiple versions of same package, per user installations, garbage collection
<quiliro>on my talk
<quiliro>do you think i am missing something?
<slyfox>i'd say "adding a new package" is also a good use case
<quiliro>slyfox: ok..thank you....but i still cannot demonstrate that
<quiliro>i am avoiding is a demo ._D
<quiliro>i want to show videos of the use cases i mentioned
<quiliro>because i do not want to risk firewall problems or bad hardware or bad software
<quiliro>i want to show videos of other package managers with their problems
<slyfox>heh, fair enough :)
<quiliro>in order to show comparison
<slyfox>don't most of guix install commands sync substitutes on every invocation?
<slyfox>or it's fine for your purposes?
<lfam>slyfox: It got better in bdb59b331bac0dea4a75b055334313ddc7bfecc8
<slyfox>oh, nice!
<lfam>Previously Guix tried to fetch substitutes for things like the MIME database, certificates bundles, icon directories, etc
<lfam>I'm not sure exactly what is covered by that commit but it should be an improvement
<civodul>lfam: this commits prevents fetching narinfos for things marked as non-substitutable, such as profiles and those you listed
<lfam>civodul: That was my understanding, but then Guix queried the substitute server when I tried removing a package from my profile, so I realized I don't really understand the impact of the commit
<civodul>quiliro: for newcomers i think a demo like that of the video at is a good start
<civodul>quiliro: so yes, install, rollback, list-generations, etc.
<civodul>lfam: maybe there were other derivations being built that needed it
<civodul>like Texinfo, mandb, etc.
<lfam>Yeah, hard to say :) I didn't let that invocation finish, and now when I re-run it, the substitutes server isn't queried
<civodul>heh, who knows :-)
<civodul>you could check on the server if there's a substitute server you control
<civodul>or add 'pk' in (guix script substitute)
<civodul>lfam: BTW, i was trying to finally write about the services-in-container thing i showed at FOSDEM
<civodul>i'll need your feedback :-)
<lfam>True, I should tail the logs of my server
<lfam>Okay, I'll be happy to help you with that!
<wingo>/topic just add a pk
<lfam>I prefer printf ;)
<slyfox>is core-updates one to updates now? :)
<lfam>slyfox: What do you mean?
<slyfox>sorry, it should be "is core-updates open for updates now?"
<lfam>Yes, open for business!
<slyfox>yay \\o/
<quiliro>civodul: yes, i think is great
<quiliro>but thinking it better... i'll do exactly what the video shows and take the video just in case!
<quiliro>better is a live demo
<civodul>though be sure to fight against the demo effect ;-)
<rekado>quiliro: make sure that things are already in the store (and don’t upgrade before the demo)
<quiliro>ok... =)
<efraim>I looked at Debian's vlc package, they use the bundled ffmpeg