IRC channel logs

<rekado_>lfam: re the HN post: I found the article too poorly written. It contains a couple of familiar paragraphs from other sources, but overall was a pretty bad read.

<lfam>I actually didn't read the article at all; I almost never do on that site. The discussion is usually the interesting part

<rekado_>I think that HN discussions on the topic of the Unix philosophy usually aren’t very insightful.

<rekado_>it’s one of these recurring topics

<lfam>I think that GuixSD represents an interesting evolution from Unix towards something else

<rekado_>it’s funny how often “GNU” is misunderstood as *bound* by the Unix philosophy.

<rekado_>many misunderstandings about Emacs, for example, come from a misunderstanding of GNU as Unix

<rekado_>even though its very name denies it :)

<lfam>Guix uses the world of Unix-like software to get started, but we aren't exactly wedded to the Unix idea or the tools

<lfam>But by building on tools like GCC, coreutils, and Linux, we are able to start with something useful, rather totally from scratch. If we started from scratch, the potential user-base would be very small

<lfam>Anyways, I think Guix is still young enough that attracting even one new user via a discussion site is worthwhile :)

<lfam>Well, sorry you thought it was bad :)

<rekado_>no, I agree.

<rekado_>I was just commenting on the article itself

<rekado_>(usually I just browse the discussions directly)

<rekado_>it’s just really hard (in my limited experience) to have a discussion on HN about things like the Unix philosophy and the future of GNU+Linux.

<rekado_>somebody more talented at HN discussions should give it a try :)

<rekado_>ACTION –> zzZZ

<detrout_>I think of Guix as "keeping the dream of the lisp machine alive"

<mekeor>lfam: i don't know how i managed to paste a wrong commit hash for the dzen package. i sent a new patch to the mailing list.

<jamesrichardson>Does anyone have a pointer on how to make syslog use a different config file?

<jamesrichardson>I sorted it out. Had to add (service syslog-servive-type (syslog-configuration ....)) and (remove) the existing one from %desktop-services.

<jamesrichardson>Don't know if that is the proper way, but it works...

<mekeor>ACTION wonders what creates the ~/Desktop directory

<jamesrichardson>mekeor: I think a XDG compliant desktop (e.g. Gnome) creates such things. Variables in ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs can be set to specify the location to something more appropriate.

<jamesrichardson>I have mine set to $HOME. That way it doesn't bother me.

<mekeor>jamesrichardson: ah, right, i remember. i'll try it out, thanks :)

<jamesrichardson>wondering how to arrange to have mcron start for a user at system boot.

***Piece_Maker is now known as Acou_Bass

<jamesrichardson>* Perhaps I'm not quite ready to use GuixSD on my primary laptop.

<paroneayea>heya jamesrichardson

<paroneayea>that's an interesting question, I'm sure there must be some examples in guix of services that start up processes by specific users

<paroneayea>but I'm not sure what to point to. maybe postgres?

<paroneayea>or dovecot

<paroneayea>ah yeah

<paroneayea>jamesrichardson: look at postgresql-shepherd-service in gnu/services/databases.scm

<paroneayea>which sets the user and group

<paroneayea>jamesrichardson: between that and the mcron service...

<paroneayea>though, we might want to be able to have the mcron service optionally run for a specific user

<paroneayea>maybe that's something worth adding to the mcron service, I dunno

<jamesrichardson>I'll take a look at the postresql service. Ideally I would like mcron to be started at boot for my user and a few others. That is I would like mcron to start at boot and start processing jobs in $HOME/.cron/.

<paroneayea>jamesrichardson: aha, yeah. cool, good luck on it... and post your handiwork to guix-devel :)

<paroneayea>maybe I'll borrow it for my own setup

<jamesrichardson>I just have to get my head around this.

<jamesrichardson>Sure, I'll post it to guix-devel. May even start a blog. ;)

<paroneayea>:)

<jamesrichardson> /whois paroneayea

<paroneayea>who am I anyway

<paroneayea>I wonder that a lot

<Isorkin>(define %apps-def wget htop mc subversion git tcpdump nmap zsh) - how to define a variable?

<rekado>Isorkin: a variable is defined like this (define var-name value)

<rekado>Isorkin: if you want to define a list as a value you have to use “list”: (define var-name (list value1 value2 value3 …))

<Isorkin>(define %apps-def (list wget htop mc subversion git tcpdump nmap zsh)) \\ (packages (cons* %apps-def %base-packages)) - error - guix/profiles.scm:197:8: Throw to key `match-error' with args `("match" "no matching pattern" (#<package wget@1.19.1 gnu/packages/wget.scm:34 2927240>

<rekado>Isorkin: to glue two lists together use “append”, not “cons*”.

<Isorkin>thanks, work

<Isorkin>rekado: (define %pack-mod (list wget mc)) \\ (use-package-modules (append %pack-mod)) - not work - how to fix?)

<mange>Isorkin: use-package-modules has to be given the names directly, like (use-package-modules wget mc).

<rd161616>Hi

<mekeor>in Guix, does a system configuration (config.scm) actually compile to an executable? i mean, what exactly does the function(?) `operating-system` do? is it just a definition of a data structure?

<mekeor>mekeor: see https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/html_node/Using-the-Configuration-System.html#Using-the-Configuration-System – especially section "The Programming Interface"

<mekeor>i.e. `operating-system` is a "monadic procedure"

<rd161616>Hi , somebody knows how to reads PDF in terminal using guixsd please ?

<mekeor>rd161616: well, this doesn't have much to do with Guix but i just used a search engine to find out that there is a pdftotext program. it might be in the package `poppler` but maybe it's not packaged yet. i'm not sure.

<rekado>mekeor, rd161616 yes, it’s part of the poppler package.

<rd161616>Thx instal poppler so

<rd161616>I install*

<mekeor>can guix be installed on mac os? – section 2.1 "binary installation" of the manual states "only requirement is to have GNU tar and Xz." but there are only guix-binary-<version>-<system>.tar.xz tarballs for system=...-linux.

<rekado>mekeor: since we’re building from scratch we would need a libc with support for the kernel used by MacOS.

<rekado>mekeor: I don’t know if a current version with MacOS support exists

<jmd>Yeah perhaps that "only requirement" phrase is a bit too optimistic :)

<thomasd>also, does the MacOS kernel have things like namespaces etc?

<mekeor>well, doesn't MacOS us the_same/a_similar kernel as GNU Hurd? – Mach.

<mekeor>so, shouldn't it work then?

<mekeor>ACTION is just thinking out loud

<rekado>it’s a very different system

<rekado>it uses a version of Mach, but is implemented as a single server system

<braunr>rekado: you'd find namespaces in the bsd server

<braunr>mekeor: ^

<braunr>bbl

<rekado>the point is: you need a port of the GNU libc for mac os.

<compro>guix package: error: build failed: the group `guixbuild' specified in `build-users-group' does not exist

<compro>The above is the output of 'guix package -i hello'

<thomasd>compro: did you create build users and group as in https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/html_node/Build-Environment-Setup.html#Build-Environment-Setup ?

<compro>/gnu/store/6dyps02rrsyjy76lyqfvw5hnsy37pw0x-profile/bin/guix-daemon

<compro>/gnu/store/gj2i5xs7nm80mwrb139pa8iqfccw08zz-guix-0.12.0/bin/guix-daemon

<compro>Which of them should I link in /usr/lcal/bin/guix-daemon

<thomasd>compro: neither, I think (?)

<thomasd>I don't think you need to create a /usr/local/bin/guix-daemon link at all

<jmd>compro: You should run "guix package --install=hello" - this will install the package into your profile.

<rekado>compro: are you actually following the installation instructions in the manual?

<jmd>How does whatever generates the html for http://gnu.org/s/guix/packages know which package are GNU and which are not?

<mekeor>jmd: i guess by path. many use (uri "mirror://gnu/...") and maybe additionally some gnu projects like gnome were marked GNU by hand?

<jmd>mekeor: That would seem not to be the case.

<jmd>jacal for example doesn't use gnu.org

<mekeor>jmd: my next guess: it depends on both the URI field of the package as well as the description which is used to look up "GNU <package-name>" :D

<jmd>That is possible.

<ng0>fossil 2.0 has just been released, if no one is working on it, I'll send an update later :)

<ng0>the time between them opening a thread of "let's discuss a roadmap for 2.0" and releasing it was very short

<ng0>probably because SQL is testdriving HEAD all the time

<compro>rekado: I am reading guix.pdf

<compro> http://pastebin.com/FTNh2Nec

<rekado>see, SELinux is easy! —> https://people.redhat.com/duffy/selinux/selinux-coloring-book_A4-Stapled.pdf

<ng0>rekado: HEADS (the linux-libre TAILS) apparently managed to get GRSec going, and Parabola too, so at some point after SELinux, GRSec should be doable aswell as there are example projects out there :)

<rekado>I have no experience with GRSec at all, unfortunately, but I know that SELinux isn’t all that difficult.

<rekado>(terms and conditions apply)

<ng0>I know a bit about GRSec.. but I wouldn't say I have mastered the domain of it

<paroneayea>hm

<paroneayea>is there any way as a user on the system to specify "I want to use offload building right on this build" but then "oh not on this build"

<paroneayea>I have a reason for this

<paroneayea>when docked at home I want to use my home server to do builds

<paroneayea>so my laptop doesn't overheat while docked

<paroneayea>but while on the go, I don't want to do that

<paroneayea>hm

<paroneayea>--no-build-hook

<ng0>there's only no-build-hook

<ng0>and it doesn't work for guix pull

<paroneayea>so not fine grained, as in terms of specifying *which* build machines at certain times

<paroneayea>well I don't use guix pull so that's not a problem

<ng0>just those which are available

<paroneayea>still, looks like there's not a super nice way to enable/disable it for periods of time (or even better, toggle it on for a single build, rather than toggle it off for a single one)

<ng0>so if build machine 1 is available at home, but build machine 2 is available while you are not, it works. for "i don't want to offload at all" you need to pass --no-build-hook

<ng0>no, currently not as far as I know

<paroneayea>ng0: I suppose... esp since if I'm on the go, it just won't reach it anyway

<ng0>reminds me of two bugs I found I need to report

<ng0>is sqlite 3.17.x in core-updates?

<ng0>yep

<ng0>fossil update has to wait until core-updates is merged

<ng0>anyone with push access want to fix a typo in the documentation? under Miscellaneous Services, 6.2.7.18 Version Control, it should read "a simple TCP server to expose repositories over the Git protocol for anonymous access." and not "a simple TCP server to expose repositories over the Git protocol for annoymous access."

<ng0>(user (cons* (user-group (name "foo")) (user-account (name "food") (comment "") (group "foo") (home-directory "/home/foo")) %base-user-accounts)) looks correct? Because I'm getting an error when I leave out the user-group before I use it (undefined) and when I include it, it's "procedure user-account-uid: Wrong type argument: #<<user-group> name: "foo" password: #f id: #f system?: #f>

<Isorkin>no such service qemu-guest-agent?

<bavier>ng0: I'll fix that typo when I get a chance

<ng0>ok :)

<ng0>what I'm trying with the 'foo' is to create a group which then gets used by user "git" with git-shell access

<ng0>does (user-group) not belong into (users) ?

<bavier>ng0: I think it belongs in the operating-system "groups" field

<ng0>testing it

<ng0>if it does, I'll add an example to the docs

<Apteryx>Are the substitutes servers working? Just trying "guix environment guix" after a git pull yesterday triggered a build that's ongoing for 12+ hours.

<ng0>bavier: seemed to have worked..

<ng0>I can verify after reboot

<Isorkin>qemu-guest-agent not support?

<bavier>Isorkin: we have spice support, not sure about qemu-guest-agent

<Isorkin>spice - not that

<ng0>hm.

<ng0>it worked, but where do I get a default ~/git-shell-commands file? The interwebz?

<ng0>ah

<ng0>yes, I don't need it

<quiliro>it looks as that my pull and my reconfigure problems are because of problems with low and unreliable bandwidth

<quiliro>nevertheless, it is really a guix issue

<quiliro>because it should report or even tolerate network problems

***lewo_ is now known as lewo

<Apteryx>Is someone using Gnus? If so, is there a way to make it display the inline patches created by git-send-email in color?

<Apteryx>Would make reviewing nicer ;)

<ng0>yes. But I don't use it anymore, I just can tell that it's possible

<Apteryx>OK. My next question is how? ;)

<Apteryx>I'll try figuring it out, but if someone already has the recipe, it's more than welcome!

<ng0>shoiuld't it just work?

<Apteryx>It does but only for patches that come as attachments. This is not the case of patches generated using git-send-email.

<ng0>must've been some mixed-mode

<ng0>ah

<ng0>hm

<Apteryx>I can manually start "diff-mode" and it works. But it also seems to conflict with gnus-article-mode (the shortcuts stop working for example).

<Apteryx>I think because it replaces it as a major mode.

<Apteryx>I tried using diff-minor-mode but this doesn't color the inline diffs.

<Apteryx>Have to head out for now.

<lfam>Arg, the fix for CVE-2017-2625 and CVE-2017-2626 is to use libbsd in libice and libxdmcp. I had enjoyed being able to update libbsd freely

<amz3>ACTION trying to install guix on their server

<lfam>I should finish that agetty-service...

<paroneayea>o/

<paroneayea>hey lfam

<amz3>the thing is live, wait for it...

<lfam>Howdy paroneayea

<rd16rd16>Hi, i've activated GPM-service in my config file in guixSD, i still cannot scroll in various applications, what are the additional tweaks i need to make please?

<paroneayea>amz3: where are you hosting your server?

<paroneayea>lfam: and on that note, any new news on hosting things at raptor?

<lfam>rd16rd16: The problem is most likely with those applications. You're trying to use Emacs, right?

<lfam>paroneayea: I gave them an extra week and sent a friendly reminder this morning :)

<rd16rd16>Ifam: yes, w3c and links too

<lfam>Did you ask on the #emacs channel?

<amz3>paroneayea: ovh something around 20€ but it's two year old contract and I am not very happy because I can't hack my project on the server the connection is too low

<paroneayea>amz3: oh, are you running guix on it or guixsd?

<compro>guix pull: error: build failed: substituter `substitute' died unexpectedly

<amz3>paroneayea: guix only.

<paroneayea>amz3: cool, makes sense

<lfam>compro: Can you paste the full output of the command on paste.lisp.org?

<amz3>TBH I have only one machine that runs guix and I seldom use it

<lfam>paroneayea: Maybe it would be motivating if you said on #serveraptor that you are excited to be their customer :)

<lfam>So, changing the subject.... QEMU. It's very important to Guix, but there is a constant stream of security bugs being published. We aren't keeping up :/

<amz3>s/guix/guixsd/

<compro> http://pastebin.com/FTNh2Nec

<lfam>compro: Looks like the same thing as <https://bugs.gnu.org/25894>

<lfam>compro: Are you using GuixSD, or Guix on another distro?

<compro>guix on arch linux. not up till now

<compro>was following the official guix.pdf

<compro>cant proceed after page number marked 5

<compro>or page 11 of 243

<amz3>lfam: do you mean serverraptor has guixd?

<lfam>compro: What do you mean by "cant proceed after page number marked 5"? Can you say which step you stopped at?

<lfam>amz3: I'm working on it :)

<amz3>lfam: that would be nice! I am having a look at their offering I think it is missing disk space. My /home on my server is 200Go

<lfam>Yeah, I had the same thought. But at least they are willing to consider GuixSD. One step at a time...

<lfam>Maybe they'd be willing to amend the deal and sell me more storage :)

<amz3>lfam: please ask them how much would cost 1TB, I am willing to pay to use a server using guixsd :)

<lfam>Sure, I'll do it once they are offering GuixSD

<amz3>compro: last time I had an issue with that i reinstalled guix, otherwise you can try to download guix git as root and use that instead of guix pull

<amz3>lfam: please cc guix-help because that the only list I follow

<lfam>compro, amz3: I'd like to try debugging a little more before resorting to such drastic actions :)

<amz3>:)

<lfam>It seems like a serious bug and at least two people have experienced it

<amz3>you know better than I do, I go back on hacking on guile stuff, sorry for the noise

<lfam>I don't know that much, but I do like to fix bugs :)

<amz3>I just guix pulled, and my app seems to be running...

<lfam>Nice

<quiliro>how is it possible to start the spell corrector in Claws-Mail

<quiliro>?

<quiliro>and which package to install?

<amz3>guix is running this http://hypermove.net/

<amz3>there is nothing in the search engine tho

<quiliro>so i suppose guix package -i aspell

<paroneayea>warning: 'waitpid' -1 failed unexpectedly: No child processes <- weird error I'm getting when I'm trying to compile guix on one of my guixsd machines

<paroneayea>shoot.

<paroneayea>and now I left the guix environment and I can't guix pull.

<paroneayea>I don't know how to recover this :\\

<paroneayea>guile-ssh appears to be failing to build.

<quiliro>paroneayea: check network

<quiliro>had problems with guix pull and guix system reconfigure because of network problems

<paroneayea>quiliro: it's not a network problem, guile-ssh isn't passing its tests for some reason

<paroneayea>though...

<paroneayea>ok I think I have an idea on how to move forward

<quiliro>dependencies couldn't be built for gnome and gnome-shell by mozjs

<quiliro>i am guix pull ....ing again to do guix system reconfigure /etc/config.scm

<quiliro>in case that is the problem

<quiliro>i have reported it to the mailing list

<rekado>paroneayea: I also got this error trying to run “make”

<rekado>paroneayea: it happens on my recording machine (x86_64) that hadn’t been updated in a while, but not on my laptop (also x86_64), which is updated regularly.

<quiliro>it is running tests again

<quiliro>after that comes the error

<quiliro>it is on guix-build-mozjs

<quiliro>i reported it on bug-guix

<quiliro>if the same error pops, i will notify

<quiliro>i am talking about the error that pops up on

<quiliro>guix system reconfigure /etc/config.scm

<paroneayea>rekado: I'm git bisecting to find out what commit breaks it

<paroneayea>rekado: glad to hear I'm not alone

<quiliro>same error as before

<quiliro>i cannot stay more time in this good connection

<paroneayea>424b1ae76901c538457bd3c30d9d9cf67e79855f is the first bad commit