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<atw>Is the talk on service composition up yet?
<CharlieBrown>Guix-installed git says: fatal: unable to access '': server certificate verification failed. CAfile: none CRLfile: none
<mange>CharlieBrown: have you done this?
<mange>And as a related question: are you on GuixSD?
<mekeor>David Craven leaves the guix project:
<CharlieBrown>mange: Parabola.
<mekeor>CharlieBrown: what's the value of your $GIT_SSL_CAINFO environment variable?
<CharlieBrown>mange: Probably haven't done that.
<CharlieBrown>mekeor: $ echo $GIT_SSL_CAINFO
<mekeor>yes, what's the output? nothing?
<CharlieBrown>mekeor: Nothing.
<mekeor>CharlieBrown: you need to specify the variable
<mekeor>CharlieBrown: i set value of the variable to /run/current-system/profile/etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt but i'm on GuixSD...
<CharlieBrown>mekeor: You're ON GuixSD as your daily driver? But GuixSD has no IceDove, among other things.
<mekeor>CharlieBrown: yeah, icedove/thunderbird is pretty much the only thing i'm missing
<mekeor>CharlieBrown: i'm using claws-mail for now. but i want to use mu + mu4e in future.
<CharlieBrown>OK, doing X.509 manual stuff.
<CharlieBrown>"export ..." var. decl. are not permanent, right?
<CharlieBrown>mekeor: It works, but I heard it's not good to put env. var. defs in bashrc.
<CharlieBrown>Also, that anti-GNU David guy can go jump in a lake.
<mekeor>CharlieBrown: please don't start arguing on a personal level. he gave some ideologic, thoughtful arguments for his decision.
<mekeor>CharlieBrown: also, it's common for Guix to use environment variables
<lfam>CharlieBrown: It's best to export variables like that ~/.bash_profile. They will be sourced once, on login
<lfam>CharlieBrown: And I agree with mekeor, let's keep it civil.
<CharlieBrown>mekeor: lfam: What I mean is, I read in a Guix manual page that doing it by bashrc is the wrong way, and doing it by bash_profile is the right way.
<lfam>Right. If you put it in ~/.bash_rc, it will get exported every time you start a new shell, whereas with ~/.bash_profile, it's only when you login, or simulate login with `bash -l`
<lfam>Err, ~/.bashrc
<mekeor>uh, anyway. i'm really sad about David leaving. i haven't been into Guix for long and i don't know David but tbh i get his point and i understand his explanation of his reasons.
<bavier>strange, 'guix lint' flags home-pages that use iframes
<bavier>not sure how we could work around that
<bavier>efraim: do you recall why we stopped using https for the hackage mirror?
<NancyAnne_Cianci>hey guys
<NancyAnne_Cianci>anyone alive ?
<alezost>hello, I think many are alive. If you have a question, you may just ask :-)
<sneek>Welcome back alezost, you have 1 message.
<sneek>alezost, catonano says: thanks
<efraim>bavier: I didn't even realize that happened, I paid so little attention to haskell
<NancyAnne_Cianci>the folks who develop bitmask , an oVPN from the LEAP project still have discovered GUIX - they seem to want to use a qemu-VM for reproducible builds ... omg
<NancyAnne_Cianci>... still have NOT discovered
<NancyAnne_Cianci>we must wean them off qemu and hook them up GUIX !!
<rekado_>sneek: later tell root_guix To display Japanese characters you'll need to install a font that includes glyphs for them.
<sneek>Got it.
<rekado_>sneek: later tell root_guix For typing Japanese you need an input method. For Chinese I use ibus with ibus-libpinyin. I don't know which would be used for Japanese.
<sneek>Will do.
<clacke[m]>Does ibus input into e.g. LibreOffice work in GuixSD?
<clacke[m]>I tried guixing LibreOffice on Ubuntu and it ignored the IM, switched to Ubuntu-packaged LO, no other changes, and it worked.
<rekado_>clacke[m]: was IBus also from Guix? Did you also set up the environment variables such as GUIX_GTK2_IM_MODULE_FILE and GUIX_GTK3_IM_MODULE_FILE?
<clacke[m]>I'll look at that next time
<clacke[m]>I only set "normal" envs
<clacke[m]>didn't know there are Guix ones
<rekado_>clacke[m]: GTK usually just looks for these module files in a single central location.
<rekado_>with these environment variables we can override the location for GTK from Guix.
<rekado_>...and provide compatible IM modules there.
<rekado_>unfortunately, it is impossible to just load system IM modules due to ABI incompatibility.
<rekado_>so it must be GTK from Guix and IM modules from Guix as well.
<rekado_>does anyone happen to know if the nvidia MCP55 ethernet chip works without binary blobs?
<rekado_>we have a dozen or so servers with broadcom ethernet chips, but they seem to also have a secondary nvidia chip
<rekado_>the broadcom stuff needs blobs, so I'm foolishly hoping that the nvidia chips would work with linux libre.
<jmd>I thought all Nvidia hardware in the last 10 years needed proprietary firmware/software.
<rekado_>I have a feeling that this is correct.
<rekado_>but these servers are already a little old.
<rekado_>so maybe there's hope.
<ng0>which of our packages provides "include/elf.h" ?
<ng0>it's not elfutils and not attr
<jmd>We must introduce a command to do those sorts of queries.
<ng0>or maybe this is in the package I'm building from and blueness did some trick which works on Gentoo but not on GuixSD
<ng0>comment: "this is a bit hack since we include gelf.h but the pax decls are in elf.h the stacking goes as gelf.h libelf.h elf.h
<ng0>oh. daw
<clacke[m]>In this case it's easy, because it's a common build dependency, so just run find on /gnu. But yeah, a general way to query things not installed would be nice.
<ng0>like portagefilelist
<ng0>just offline
<ng0>I suggested this before, but I think I will end up writing it some day
<clacke[m]>or apt-file search or yum provides, yeah. :-)
<clacke[m]>would require adding some functionality to Hydra, I assume
<ng0>I didn't convince myself to port portage to Guix. with pfl's e-file on Guix I only had half functionality without portage
<ng0>which glibc do I want again for when it's just an input?
<clacke[m]>Do you need to specify it at all, isn't it impled?
<ng0>well the checks for /usr/blagfoo/elf.h
<ng0>and since we don't have /usr/lafoo it brekas
<ng0>native inputs glibc should work I guess.
<rekado_>ng0: you don't need to add glibc to the inputs.
<rekado_>you could try to just disable the test.
<ng0>too obvious. x.x
<ng0>thanks :D
<rekado_>I always run "find /gnu/store -name the-file" and it answers most of my questions.
<ng0>I liked the fancy listing e-file had.. just my preference
<jmd>rekado_: But only if that package happens to be in your store!
<ng0>okay,I think I can finish elfix today. I have to go now
<rekado_>jmd: yes, but in most cases I encountered so far my store already contained the file because it belonged to a common package.
<rekado_>for a tool that knows more about how files map to packages we would need to enhance hydra/cuirass/guix publish.
<thomasd>anyone using guix' libreoffice package? I think the icons are missing (and the .desktop files are not properly installed)
<jmd>thomasd: I have used it, but don't normally.
<thomasd>I also try to avoid it whenever possible :)
<rekado_>thomasd: is this on GuixSD?
<rekado_>I've seen missing icons before on GuixSD, in particular in the menu bar of Emacs.
<rekado_>(I don't use it normally, so I haven't noticed it earlier)
<rekado_>it was fixed only by reconfiguring the system and upgrading the user profile.
<rekado_>there seems to be some undeclared dependency that is broken with garbage collection.
<thomasd>rekado_: yes on GuixSD. but I'm just referring to the applications icon as shown in menus, for instance
<thomasd>seems the icon's are not there, or at least not where the desktop expects to find them (I couldn't find them myself either)
<thomasd>that was not very clear: I'm talking about the icon for writer/calc/..., not icons within the application itself, those seem fine
<rekado_>thomasd: could you trace the execution of the application to figure out where it looks for these icons?
<thomasd>also, libreoffice's .desktop files are not in PREFIX/share/applications, but in PREFIX/lib/libreoffice/share/xdg, so the desktop doesn't find them either.
<thomasd>rekado_ I'm not sure which application that would be, then. One of the components of the xfce4 desktop?
<rekado_>where do the icons appear? On the desktop?
<Walakea>where can i find some examples of guix builing code recipes?
<rekado_>or in the "launcher" buttons of the panel?
<rekado_>Walakea: what do you mean by "code recipes"?
<thomasd>rekado_ for example in the "Applications" menu of xfce4,
<thomasd>or in the "activities" of gnome-shell
<rekado_>thomasd: if it's icons in the panel: I think there's a bug report about xfce embedding store paths in some configuration files. These paths are not protected from GC.
<efraim>i've been thinking even more about my glibc and kernel-headers problem, now I'm leaning toward adding to glibc-bootstrap-system.patch to remove the dependancy on the kernel headers, with a note to the upstream commit
<efraim>lfam: ^
<Walakea>something like guile program to install a package
<thomasd>rekado_ that's my bug report :) seems to be another issue
<Walakea>in the guix world
<jmd>Walakea: They are in the directory gnu/packages
<rekado_>thomasd: ah, I see :)
<Walakea>are there any that are exceptionally easy?
<rekado_>Walakea: Guix has package expressions that describe package objects. These values are "compiled" to derivations, which contain little Guile programmes that are then executed by Guile as part of a build.
<rekado_>Walakea: package expressions themselves are no programmes, though.
<Isorkin>how-to change console font?
<rekado_>Walakea: in statistics.scm search for "(define-public r-colorspace"
<rekado_>Walakea: this is a simple package expression.
<rekado_>Walakea: all its complexity is really in the r-build-system variable.
<Walakea>well, i better learn more about Guix first
<rekado_>Walakea: you don't really need to understand much about Guix to contribute, but it helps to be aware of the basics.
<thomasd>contributing is the best way to start understanding ;-)
<rekado_>Walakea: we have many abstractions for common build systems. In the case of "r-colorspace" we can just use the standard building procedure for R packages as described in r-build-system.
<rekado_>in some cases these abstractions are not enough to build software, but you can easily add, remove, or replace build phases to perform steps that are required to make the software build.
<sirgazil>janneke: "Guix feels to me like running GNU, finally"
<sirgazil>Same feeling here :)
<rekado_>yeah, same here :)
<Walakea>is the point f flatpaks, snappys, appimages only to bundle everything together in a binary format, so that evryone can run it, but they are not concerned about making the build procedure more universal?
<rekado_>Walakea: I don't speak for other package managers, but I think one of their goals is to make it easier to deploy proprietary software.
<rekado_>Walakea: it's not about improving the build procedures.
<janneke>sirgazil, rekado_; yay!
<rekado_>Walakea: one of their explicit goals is to specify a reduced set of common "runtimes" on top of which binaries can be deployed. This is not very useful in the case where you have sources and can build a binary from scratch.
<rekado_>Guix doesn't require a common runtime, because packages span a graph that includes *all* dependencies, all the way down to a handful of bootstrap binaries.
***jonsger1 is now known as jonsger
<jmi2k>Hello Guix!
<paroneayea>hey #guix friends
<paroneayea>so I'm reading submissions on debbugs and thinking of merging some patches
<paroneayea>when you see patches that show up inline, how do you apply them generally? Do you highlight the region and run some magit-foo or something to apply the patch?
<paroneayea>when they show up as an attachment, I download, then run git am
<paroneayea>but I bet there's a "faster" route that other guix people are using
<paroneayea>specifically I'm looking at some of ng0's patches
<paroneayea>wait, is ng0 catonano_ ?
<paroneayea>oh no wait
<catonano_>no ;-
<paroneayea>I was on the wrong line :)
<lfam>paroneayea: Maybe you can select the region and then pipe it to `git am`? I'm not an Emacs user so apologies if this suggestion is totally off the mark
<paroneayea>lfam: :)
<paroneayea>‘M-| CMD <RET>’
<paroneayea> Run the shell command CMD with region contents as input; optionally
<paroneayea> replace the region with the output (‘shell-command-on-region’).
<mekeor>paroneayea: see also – but as far as i can see, there's only a keybinding for applying patches in files?
<paroneayea>mekeor: yeah I think that's right
<paroneayea>I'm saving them to files for now then.
<paroneayea>not too much work, I just some emacs wizards might have advanced workflows I don't know about :)
<mekeor>paroneayea: i'm asking for it on #emacs :D
<mekeor>yes, i also guess some people have a better method – but not me.
<lfam>I bet all the heavy Git / Linux kernel users just use Mutt and refuse patches not sent with `git send-email` ;)
<lfam>I don't like that it doesn't seem possible to sign messages from `git send-email`
<paroneayea>rekado_: I think I'm hitting the same thing you were where doing debbugs replies runs in gnus rather than mu4e
<paroneayea>I just noticed that replies aren't hitting my sent-to-misc maildir
<paroneayea>I guess it's because debbugs is actually using gnus?
<paroneayea>oh I guess it isn't.
<lfam>On a Debian system that I'm planning to convert to GuixSD, I have an invocation of `hdparm` in /etc/rc.local. I wonder how we should approach things like this on GuixSD.
<mekeor>i just installed 'zathura', a PDF viewer. it doesn't work. i get this error first: "could not open plugin directory". can anyone reproduce this?
<mekeor>oh, i think i have to additionally install another package.
<lfam>mekeor: If that's the cause, we should fix it!
<mekeor>lfam: yes, it was the cause.
<mekeor>lfam: there are several different backends for zathura. it's imaginable that a person wants to install zathura without PDF support but only postscript support, isn't it?
<Isorkin>change the console font is not supported?
<lfam>mekeor: It's imaginable, but we generally intend to provide fully featured packages
<Sleep_Walker>question is - is there anyone who would like to have zathura and not zathura-pdf-poppler?
<Sleep_Walker>and I agree that it is unlikely
<Sleep_Walker>that is moment where weaker dependency like 'recommends' would come handy
<mekeor>the package for the 'surf' browser (from suckless) has a similar issue: if you only install surf, you can't open a new URL within the browser because that requires the xprop package. what do you think about that case?
<Sleep_Walker>you mean dmenu, right?
<mekeor>Sleep_Walker: yeah, that would be awesome
<mekeor>Sleep_Walker: uhm... i'm not sure. maybe it's both?
<Sleep_Walker>that IIRC runs dmenu to have URL entered
<mekeor>Sleep_Walker: it's Ctrl-g for me
<Sleep_Walker>and yes, that should be fixed as well
<Sleep_Walker>mekeor: right
<jmd>Is hydra dead or what?
<mekeor>:O seems so...
<lfam>I've alerted the Guix sysadmins
<mildred>hello there
<paroneayea>hi mildred
<mildred>I installed guix on fedora and I'm trying to build a simple packlage from a scheme define-module file
<paroneayea>hey awesome mildred
<mildred>but I don't know how to start the build
<mildred>(I started with the hello package)
<paroneayea>mildred: so first a question... are you working from a checkout of the guix repo, or are you starting your own fresh file independent of the guix main repo
<mildred>'guix build -f hello.scm' tells me 'guix build: error: #<unspecified>: not something we can build'
<mildred>I'm somewhere on my homedir, I guess not on the repo
<paroneayea>mildred: aha! could you pastebin your file somewhere? (many of us like if you don't have a preferred pastebin)
<davexunit_>mildred: that means that hello.scm doesn't evaluate to a package
<davexunit_>90% sure you are assigning the package value to a variable rather than making sure it's the last expression in the file
<paroneayea>davexunit_ is probably right. There's an easy "solution" though
<mildred>it's copy paste from the manual
<paroneayea>(define hello
<paroneayea> ...)
<paroneayea>just put the package name as the last line of the file
<paroneayea>and see if that works
<mildred>(define-module (gnu packages hello) ...
<davexunit_>mildred: that's totally different from what 'guix package -f' expects
<davexunit_>that's making new modules, new libraries for guile.
<paroneayea>davexunit_: it's probable that mildred can use what they wrote as a starting point though
<davexunit_>how could 'guix package -f' possibly know that you want the value of a variable?
<davexunit_>the documentation for the -f flag has a complete example
<mildred>ok, so I have gnu hello, and I want to build it for guix
<mildred>what should I do?
<davexunit_>that depends
<mildred>I suppose I have to write a recipe like in manual 5.1 ...
<mildred>(define-public pkgname ...)
<davexunit_>are you trying to add it to guix? we already have that package
<mildred>Not really, I just want to build it for me
<mildred>and perhaps contribute it if it makes sense
<mildred>but not necessarily, I want to build some special purpose packages
<paroneayea>mildred: let's get your first thing to build
<paroneayea>mildred: just as a test, could you open the file you wrote and just add the package name you defined s the last line again
<paroneayea>and then try the command you wrote before with guix build -f ... ?
<mildred>no, same error
<mildred>I have (define-module ...) (defile-public hello ...) hello
<davexunit_>there's an example of using the -f flag
<mildred>sorry, wrong file
<mildred>it does sth
<davexunit_>I don't even know if that's what you want though
<paroneayea>mildred: ok, it's doing something? good :)
<paroneayea>mildred: did it finish?
<mildred>not yet, downloading a bunch of things
<paroneayea>mildred: aha. also, did you enable substitutes?
<mildred>binutils, linux-headers, ...
<paroneayea>it'll result in less compiling :)
<mildred>yes, I did
<mildred>will it build the entire world like that?
<mildred>(the restricted world of hello)
<lfam>It might not be building the whole world, but just downloading the world's dependencies ;)
<paroneayea>what lfam said :)
<mildred>ok :) nice
<paroneayea>mildred: so davexunit_ pointed to a useful thing
<paroneayea>if you look at the "-f file" line you'll find out that you can define your file with a lot less baggage :)
<davexunit_>it shouldn't be a module, for one.
<paroneayea>right, the example you started with was for contributing a package to guix *itself*, like the main repository
<paroneayea>and you might want a module, if you build up your own collection of modules, or if you're going to contribute to guix itself! but if you're just packaging some local-workflow applications to play around with, you don't need to do that
<mildred>nice, so what I probably wanted is 'guix package -f' and not 'build -f'
<paroneayea>mildred: yep
<paroneayea>mildred: build just builds it, it doesn't install it in your profile
<paroneayea>still useful, maybe you want to make sure your build works right before you install it or whatever, but probably not what you wanted
<paroneayea>mildred: (ps if you don't want to clutter up your profile / if you're doing a local environment where you just need some local packages to hack on, you might want to check out "guix environment", which is awesome :))
<mildred>what I want to do, in fact, is construct an environment with couchdb and its dependencies, and only them...
<mildred>yes, it's that
<mildred>so I can just take that environment and it is kind of self contained
<paroneayea>mildred: perfect, then guix environment is probably just what you want
<paroneayea>mildred: so you can build up a file with all the packages you want and etc defined in them, and then you can do
<mildred>I'll probably hook this in a daemon I wrote to build that every 6 hours
<paroneayea>guix environment -f my-guix-file.scm
<mildred>to make sure all dependencies are up to date
<paroneayea>mildred: cool
<paroneayea>mildred: what's this for if you don't mind me asking?
<mildred>my personal server :)
<mildred>(for the moment)
<paroneayea>mildred: well anyway, the guix environment definition that you want probably looks mostly very similar / the same as the definition I linked before. read the docs about it tho
<mildred>planning to use couchdb as a backend, for a nntp server written in Go, to deploy this on hyperboria, a nice little network powered by cjdns :)
<paroneayea>mildred: if you want to try playing with it, guix environment sets up a shell with the things you want installed (well, that's one thing you can do)
<lfam>Oh cool, I've read about cjdns but I've never tried it!
<mildred>I just needed to know I could do something with guix ...
<paroneayea>mildred: give this a shot: "guix environment --ad-hoc angband # or some other package" and then you can run just that package
<paroneayea>or python3 or something
<paroneayea>angband requires latest guix master ;)
<paroneayea>mildred: anyway, welcome to #guix!
<mildred>cjdns's really nice, but apart from IRC, I don't have anything to do on it. Nice to get a public IPv6 and to tunnel things however
<mildred>paroneayea: I'll probably run out of disk space soon, I just had ~2G before I installed guix :)
<paroneayea>mildred: heh, eep... remember to remove old profiles and run "guix gc"! :)
<mildred>I have a collision between ld-wrapper-0 and binutils-2.27
<paroneayea>mildred: ah you don't need to worry about it
<paroneayea>those warnings are more alarming sounding than they need to be
<paroneayea>or at least, we need to do a better job of improving signal to noise on them
<lfam>That particular warning sounds more alarming than it is. The right thing by choosing the wrapper. But there could be problematic collisions
<lfam>I mean, "The right thing happens by choosing the wrapper."
<mildred>I have some manual to read ...
<mildred>to get all the details
<paroneayea>mildred: the manual is a lot of fun! well, I think so
<paroneayea>happy reading. stick around! I'm interested to hear how your project goes.
<paroneayea>ACTION goes back to hacking Pubstrate
<roelj_>What was the config used to create the GuixSD USB image?
<bavier`>roelj_: gnu/system/install.scm
<roelj_>bavier`: The one in installation-os?
<roelj_>Cool! Thanks :)
<bavier`>which uses a few other services defined in the same source file
<roelj_>I see
<roelj_>How do I build it? guix system disk-image gnu/system/install.scm?
<bavier`>roelj_: that should do it
<roelj_>Then, one more question.. Is there an EFI install definition too?
<roelj_>I can't get my customized one to boot
<bavier`>not that I know of. You could extend the installation-os with the relevant bits
<lfam>roelj_: civodul sent a message to the list about how to install on EFI recently
<roelj_>lfam: Oh.. I haven't read that.. Thanks! Let me do that first before I lock myself out ;)
<roelj_>lfam: On guix-devel?
<jmd>core-updates doesn't seem to be building.
<jmd>bavier`: Usually you will also have to pass --image-size=1G
<lfam>roelj_: This discussion is relevant:
<lfam>roelj_: I thought there was some "step by step" message, but I'm not finding it in my archive now
<lfam>jmd: Is hydra doing anything for you at all? It still looks offline from here
<jmd>Here too.
<lfam>roelj_: I guess this message from that thread must be what I remembered:
<roelj_>lfam: Thanks a lot for digging these up :)
<lfam>No problem :)
<roelj_>lfam: I was just reading about the fsck problem on a vfat partition
<roelj_>Has anyone pulled off a btrfs root fs?
<lfam>I haven't tried it yet but my impression was that it *should* work
<roelj_>I'll find out in the next hour or so :)
<lfam>It could be tested in a VM
<roelj_>What's the fun in that? ;-) I never got EFI boots to work in VMs..
<lfam>It's always a good idea to try several new things at once on bare metal ;)
<nliadm>by "it should work" you mean "guix won't be the thing to fail," right?
<lfam>Haha :) I've been using btrfs on my personal machines without any problems for a couple years now
<roelj_>lfam: On GuixSD?
<lfam>No, on Debian
<lfam>I think you should really use a recent kernel, though
<jmd>What about reiserfs?
<lfam>IIUC, this commit introduced btrfs support for GuixSD:
<nliadm>btrfs lost RAID support recently, so it remains useles for my home server
<roelj_>Bah, substitutes unavailable from Hydra.. it's going to take a little longer than an hour..
<jmd>nliadm: But presumably it can still work under LVM ?
<lfam>nliadm: My understanding is that the problems are with RAID56. But I think the other types are considered okay
<nliadm>I've currently got a RAID6 via md
<lfam>My understanding is that the problem was in btrfs's RAID implementation. If you are setting up RAID with mdadm, that's a different layer of the system, right?
<nliadm>right, but btrfs' appeal is smashing those two layers together
<lfam>One of the appeals
<rekado_>paroneayea: re inline patches: in mu4e I have an "action" to feed the current email to "git am"
<rekado_>I only need to hit "a" for actions and then "g" for my "git am" action
<rekado_>it then prompts me for a directory where the patch is supposed to be applied.
<rekado_>works very well.
<paroneayea>rekado_: a! action, yeah
<paroneayea>good idea.
<paroneayea>rekado_: I think the message view in debbugs isn't hooked up to mu4e expectations. I wonder how hard it would be to make it dispatch to mu4e's stuff appropriately
<paroneayea>and maybe it's not even a configuring debbugs thing
<rekado_>need to figure out how to do this with debbugs. I think it's just a matter of writing a few mu4e backend functions.
<paroneayea>but configuring the general message mode and message stuff
<rekado_>debbugs has support for gnus and rmail
<paroneayea>er, and message view stuff
<paroneayea>rekado_: if it can support those I can't see why it couldn't do mu4e
<rekado_>looks like it could be extended to support yet another email client without too much effort.
<paroneayea>rekado_: if you start working on it let me know
<rekado_>I'm planning to work on this next week
<rekado_>need to prepare some slides for BOBkonf this week; they want to take a look at them in advance. The talk is on the 24th in Berlin.
<paroneayea>rekado_: cool
<paroneayea>btw I built scsh with ng0's patches
<paroneayea>and I meant to reply to the bug but just replied to ng0, oops
<paroneayea>guess I should fix that
<ng0>hi, I'm back for some moments. paroneayea said there's a problem with my patches? or was it just a general question about debbugs?
<paroneayea>ng0: not a problem with your patches
<paroneayea>it was an issue with me and debbugs :)
<paroneayea>ng0: the scsh one looks good
<paroneayea>ng0: would you be ok with me renaming the two packages to scheme48-rx and scheme48-scsh?
<paroneayea>with that change I can push
<ng0>works for me :)
<ng0>I had an meeting reading financing university/studying, tomorrow I'll have another more concerned with legal aspects of financing.. looks good so far :)
<jonsger>ng0: what do you wont to finance?
<ng0>studying. I don't feel comfortable to talk about the details, but there's some questions to be solved for me and I'm getting close to figuring out the best way to do it
<jonsger>ah oke, no problem. I thought your university want to "sponsor" some work on guix :P
<ng0>no :)
<paroneayea>ng0: hm, do you think scsh belongs in shells.scm or scheme.scm?
<paroneayea>does anyone use it as a shell, or just as a shell scripting language?
<ng0>I'm not sure how it's supposed to be used in daily use
<ng0>I think scheme.scm is okay
<ng0>that was my first guess
<paroneayea>I guess it does have "shell" in the name though :)
<paroneayea>meh I guess it doesn't matter.
<lfam>That's the spirit ;)
<paroneayea>lfam: :)
<paroneayea>lfam: do YOUUUUU have strong opinions? :)
<ng0>the spirit of the sloth :)
<paroneayea>my spirit animal!
<lfam>No, I think the answer to this particular question really doesn't matter! :)
<lfam>No way your spirit animal is a sloth paroneayea
<paroneayea>lfam: lol
<roelj_>How should I start shepherd to make it work with "herd start cow-store ..." ?
<paroneayea>lfam: I feel like it sometimes! look how long it's taking me to make progress on network freedom things :)
<paroneayea>my original estimation on time to make mediagoblin a success was a year
<roelj_>It seems to only listen on a TCP port, but the "herd" command expects it on a UNIX socket: error: connect: /var/run/shepherd/socket: No such file or directory
<ng0>last year I got a patch for my hoodie with a sloth: nap all day sleep all night party never :)
<paroneayea>ng0: :)
<ng0>how long is mediagoblin going on now?
<paroneayea>ng0: 5 years....
<lfam>roelj_: Hm, I've never dug in, but on GuixSD that socket is created automatically by _something_
<ng0>ah :)
<ng0>oh, for the curl maintaining people here, they now have future releases in a calendar
<ng0>ical and google webview can be found at
<lfam>Interesting, thanks!
<roelj_>lfam: There's supposed to be a --socket option, but it isn't available for my shepherd
<lfam>roelj_: Huh, my user's shepherd has it on GuixSD
<roelj_>lfam: Oh... Apparently some other program is also called shepherd.. It was using Fedora's 'shepherd' command
<roelj_>No wonder this didn't work ;)
<lfam>I'm curious, what program is it?
<roelj_>Apparently, some package called 'sheepdog'
<ng0>paroneayea: but I understand scsh to be a software which originated from the scsh in guile
<ng0>I have doubts that the original one will be restored and continue diffetrently.. but one can hope
<paroneayea>ng0: yeah... not sure
<paroneayea>ng0: I'm taking the lazy middle ground fyi, leaving scsh as scsh in shell.scm, since it distinctively *can* be run as an executable (it starts up scheme48 with things preloaded), but renaming rx to scheme48-rx
<paroneayea>sound reasonable? or am I only half committing to an approach :)
<paroneayea>ok :)
<paroneayea>I'll push it then.
<ng0>I mean, yes to the first
<ng0>speaking of sloths.. I underestimated what it takes to create a really featureful and usable live-system. with beyond the basics, I'm looking at work until at least winter 2018. Most of what I want is already at the magical 80% where the last 20% will take forever. I will probably take some time, write up something about the system, issues, reasons, etc and see if I can get more than just myself to work on
<lfam>ng0: It would be cool to read or listen to a presentation on your goals and your progress so far
<ng0>yeah this has been suggested to me yesterday in our weekly mumble aswell, not for the first time
<ng0>so I should probably do it
<ng0>I think it helps to get the meta perspective, and a snapshot of my thoughts at this point
<ng0>so far it's .onion only issue tracker, and my new version on paper
<ng0>and the issue tracker part for most of the other people is "it's a book with seven seals"
<paroneayea>ng0: oh, one thing more, I just noticed
<paroneayea>in scsh: (copy-recursively rxpath "rx")
<paroneayea>I wonder if a symlink would work? did you try that?
<ng0>I'm not sure
<paroneayea>it might well not work :)
<ng0>I don't have the branch open right now
<lfam>This is weird. I did `./pre-inst-env guix package -u syncthing` and it updated both syncthing *and* qsyncthingtray
<paroneayea>ng0: gonna try it
<lfam>Does anyone have any idea why that would happen?
<paroneayea>seems to work
<ng0>oh. nice
<paroneayea>I imagine symlinking to another package is probably better than copying it in
<rekado_>paroneayea, ng0 I think the scsh description is a bit overlong
<rekado_>(can't reply conveniently to the bug report right now)
<paroneayea>rekado_: ok, I can cut it down
<rekado_>and it's a bit too opinionated
<rekado_>paroneayea: thanks!
<paroneayea>rekado_: I'll cut it down, and cut down on the opinions :)
<ng0>Hm.. I agree
<ng0>Okay, sorry for this description
<paroneayea>how about just the first and last sentences
<paroneayea>"Scsh is a unix shell embedded in Scheme. It allows the user to write
<rekado_>one more thing: it's odd to copy the sources for "rx"
<paroneayea>commands in a language within Scheme that follows the unix way, but also
<paroneayea>allows her to specify more complex commands with the elegance of Scheme."
<paroneayea>rekado_: I just fixed that :)
<ng0>I think this was copy&paste and so much time past that I forgot that it was coipy and paste
<paroneayea>symlink seems to be working fine
<rekado_>ah, good.
<paroneayea>rekado_: how's the above cut down version?
<rekado_>it would be even better to use a search path if that were possible, but that's not so important now
<rekado_>"unix" lowercase?
<ng0>the rx is only there because this unbundles the rx from scsh
<paroneayea>rekado_: the posix way? ;)
<ng0>normally you'd have to use git submodule for that
<paroneayea>the *nix way? :)
<rekado_>--> the Nix way --> the Guix way ...?
<paroneayea>*nix used to be how people would generically write (not-)unix back in the day...
<paroneayea>maybe it isn't clear anymore, expecially in a project so close to nix
<paroneayea>some other things in here say Unix!
<ng0>Nix is how we say (and sometimes write) "Nothing" around here, so that made the Nix Project weird to describe :D
<paroneayea>even though we're explicitly Not Unix :)
<ng0>*around here, where I live
<rekado_>I'd write it as "Unix"; other than that the new description is fine.
<paroneayea>rekado_: ok, will do
<rekado_>this one's also not bad:
<rekado_>"Scsh has two main components: a process notation for running programs and setting up pipelines and redirections, and a complete syscall library for low-level access to the operating system"
<jonsger> maybe someone could change the email in Line 5 to guix-patches :)
<rekado_>if a second paragraph were needed.
<rekado_>jonsger: right, this needs to be updated, including hints on how to submit multiple patches in one debbugs report.
<paroneayea>"Scsh is a Unix shell embedded in Scheme. Scsh has two main
<paroneayea>components: a process notation for running programs and setting up pipelines
<paroneayea>and redirections, and a complete syscall library for low-level access to the
<paroneayea>operating system."
<ng0>Okay :)
<paroneayea>the past is the future! long live the scheme shell! :)
<ng0>I ran into something new with the hplip-qt5 thing I created. I will give it a try tomorrow again, and ask about it on saturday or sunday
<ng0>2 more parens and the problem seems to be fixed and instead a new one one
<ng0>good night
<paroneayea>the more parens the better right?
<paroneayea>if it doesn't work, just throw more parens at it, that's what I say
<lfam>sneek disagrees
<lfam>I guess that argument to `guix package --upgrade` is handled so that 'syncthing' also matches 'qsyncthingtray'
<lfam>I wonder if this is too smart for its own good
<lfam>I see the value of supporting regular expressions there, but it's surprising behavior nonetheless
<rekado_>paroneayea: here's a simple patch to debbugs-gnu.el:
<rekado_>it needs more work, but at least it should do the right thing and open up the message in mu4e (if it is available locally)
<rekado_>maybe it should do the same as rmail and download the mbox file first, dunno.
<paroneayea>rekado_: ooh nice
<rekado_>at least you can jump right to the correct email in your mailbox from within the Emacs debbugs interface.
<paroneayea>rekado_: what's "contracting upstream" for debbugs.el? hm
<paroneayea>contacting yes
<rekado_>I think you'd just send a patch to emacs-devel for elpa.
<rekado_>(debbugs*.el is in elpa.git)
<paroneayea>rekado_: ah!
<paroneayea>rekado_: cool, would you like to do that?
<rekado_>when it's ready, yes
<rekado_>ACTION ---> zzZZ
<paroneayea>nite rekado_ !