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<skaria>nvm, seems to just be a certain site
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<civodul>Hello Guix!
<sneek>civodul, you have 2 messages.
<sneek>civodul, paroneayea says: I'm a-ok with sending to list for feedback ahead of time if you would like
<sneek>civodul, efraim says: hydra has the only copy of linux-libre-4.4.18, upstream switched from tar.xz to tar.lz (i think), this could quickly become a big problem
<efraim>It would seem that I still think there are things only you can fix, and I'm still not good about writing bug tickets
<civodul>efraim: did they remove the tar.xz?
<civodul>upstream is actually on this channel so we should be able to find a solution :-)
<slyfox>isn't it just a matter of adding lzip to bootstrap packages?
<civodul>ah oh, yes
<civodul>we can do that in core-updates
<civodul>it's the right time
<civodul>and/or we can ask lxo whether re-adding the tar.xz variant is an option in the meantime
<efraim>I think they ran out of space, and for older releases only carry the deblobbibg script
<efraim>Er, i meant to link the 4.4 one
<efraim>4.4.18 is similar, 4.4.47 has a full tar.xz of the kernel
<efraim>I'll check the Gnu mirrors also, I think they're starting to host some of the kernels
<efraim> only has .tar.lz tarballs
<efraim>I wonder if xz can do lz tarballs
<boskovits>I have seen an earlier attempt to add lvm support to guixsd.
<boskovits>I would like to know the status of lvm support, and willing to assist with it.
<jmd>So I've been charged with explaining to the Nix people what is so great about Guix. What do I tell them?
<buenouan1>THE POWER OF LISP
<jmd> /join #gnu
<efraim>Does nix have grafting yet?
<jmd>I dunno
<thomasd>efraim: reads like they have something similar but not quite?
<thomasd>though I've never used nix and can't say I really understand that page well
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<catonano>jmd: some time ago I indicated a talk about the convenience of having a full blown language for the whole thing. Ludo included that in one of his talks. You could start from that
<jmd>catonano: That's one difference. Sure.
<catonano>I can' t fimd that talk now
<catonano>you can ask ludo
<catonano>jmd: at the Fosdem there was a brief discussion about the differences in policies in dealing with reproducibility of the build in Guix and Nix. cbaines seemed to have an opinion about how Nix seeks "convenience" and Ludo and Cwebber seemed to have opinions about getting things rigtht.
<catonano>jmd: I can't be clearer than this because I don' t fully understand the issues at play here
<catonano>jmd: but you can asl the poeple I mentioned
<thomasd>getting things right can be very convenient though :)
<jmd>thomasd: Who for?
<catonano>thomasd: indeed. It' s the old clash between getting tinghs right and getting things done
<jmd>And getting the right things done.
<thomasd>just kidding, I don't know enough about nix to contribute anything useful here
<thomasd>What does nix currently get done, that guix doesn't? I know they have much more packages at the moment, but that's just a matter of putting in the work.
<catonano>thomasd: for example I know that they deal with nodejs packages, somehow. There was a talk at the Fosdem about this. I couldn' t watch it though
<catonano>thomasd: there are other cases in qhich they manage to deliver and guix doesn' t because Guix raises issues about reproducibility, bootstrapping (actual freedom) that Nix doesn't raise
<catonano>as far as I understand, they are ok with including some prebuilt binary in their packages
<civodul>efraim: bah, not great!
<thomasd>yes, I think I recall the issue here was that a lot of npm packages don't provide full source
<catonano>thomasd: they don' t provide full source or they don't provide the script for building
<civodul>it's so nice to see these nicknames now that we can put a face on them :-)
<catonano>civodul: :-)
<civodul>catonano: some people in Nix land do pay attention to reproducibility and bootstrapping, but i'd say that the "spirit" is to get something that "works" as quickly as possible
<civodul>which i think is also because Nixpkgs is not specifically committed to software freedom
<catonano>civodul: of course some nixers care about reproducibility and bootstrapping ! I was generalizing !
<catonano>didn' t mean to misrepresent anyone or anything. So thanks fpr pointing out
<thomasd>(I seem to remember there was a proof of concept node.js importer for guix, which kind stranded on the fact that too many node packages are incomplete (from reproducibility pov), but can't find the thread on the guix-devel archive)
<civodul>thomasd: jlicht wrote a farily complete importer during GSoC last year
<civodul>i think they were able to actually get the graph of some non-trivial package, don't remember which one
<civodul>it looked promising
<catonano>thomasd: see here
<jmd>I heard also that in Nix the build environment is not as pure as in Guix. Is that correct?
<thomasd>catonano: thanks! (pfew, web development is complicated.)
<catonano>thomasd: ;-)
<clacke[m]>catonano: "at the Fosdem there was a brief discussion about the differences in policies in dealing with reproducibility of the build in Guix and Nix" Might there be a recording or was this the hallway track?
<catonano>clacke[m]: it was at dinner in a restaurant where cwebber led us. I couldn' t even find it again ;-)
<catonano>ACTION: explores how to use actions with Polari
<catonano>ACTION waves
<catonano>ah !
<thomasd>ACTION waves back
<bnw>Is there a list of all the guix repos around the globe?
<rekado>thomasd: another example is Java. Guix has very few Java packages because we attempt to build everything from source.
<thomasd>ok, but here, the situation is not as bad as with node, as the source is usually available, no? It's more a matter of someone putting in the effort to actually package all that.
<civodul>bnw: not that i know of, but we try hard to keep the canonical repo the thing you want to use
<rekado>thomasd: the source for nodejs packages is also available in many cases, but building nodejs packages from source often requires resolving dependency loops.
<rekado>and that's the same in Java.
<bnw> is too slow, I couldn't get guix installed.
<rekado>because people don't build from source; they download pre-built binaries instead.
<civodul>bnw: you should use, which is the default
<civodul>it is apparently slow in some parts of the world, though
<civodul>and also depending on what/when you're downloading, i guess
<civodul>bnw: that said, you can try one of these mirrors too:
<bnw>civodul: I meant, the default, I just forgot the exact url.
<bnw>civodul: Thank you.
<bnw>Is there a place I can rsync and keep a local repo for installation?
<bnw>Would be great if I can resume if transfer stops due to network problem.
<bnw>How large is the Guix whole repo currently?
<jmd>civodul: In which parts of the world is it slow?
<bnw>Mainland China here. Less then 50 K/s. guix init stop after a couple of minutes.
<jmd>What would you normally expect to Europe?
<bnw>Maybe I will ask the maintainer of or whether they can host a copy
<bnw>I have few experience of upgrading a Linux box using a European repo.
<civodul>bnw: the CDN thing may work better for you
<civodul>do let Tom Li and the list know about your experience with it
<civodul>it's useful feedback
<bnw>I will try it tomorrow.
<civodul>cool, tx
<civodul>"nix-bundle", kinda like 'guix archive -f docker':
<civodul>rekado: ↑
<civodul>looks like we're on the same page :-)
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<rekado>nix-bundle looks nicer than "guix archive -f docker"; it includes a little wrapper to run the thing in a container without requiring docker at all.
<civodul>that's a good idea
<civodul>we could use (gnu build linux-container) for that
<rekado>civodul: but then the target would need to have Guile, no?
<rekado>I think the idea here is to compile a native wrapper that creates the namespace:
<civodul>so the thing needs GCC no? :-)
<civodul>we could create bundles that include Guile, what's wrong with that?
<civodul>that'd be our Trojan ;-)
<rekado>it needs GCC only to generate the binary wrapper
<rekado>not on the target
<rekado>i.e. I (using Guix and GCC) could build a blob that can run elsewhere (without GCC or Guile or Guix)
<civodul>right, and of course that C binary is much smaller than Guile + the relevant modules
<nliadm>if you're shipping around docker images, I don't think size is a top concern
<rekado>so we could add a statically linked Guile and figure out a way to run it from the archive...?
<wingo>that would be pretty cool!
<skaria>from ~/.guix-profile/etc/profile: export GIT_SSL_CAINFO="${GUIX_PROFILE:-/gnu/store/hfr8424r7iijn562kwpqyv1daic48wq6-profile}/etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt${GIT_SSL_CAINFO:+:}$GIT_SSL_CAINFO"
<skaria>yet im still getting ssl errors
<skaria>for e.g i cant do: wget
<nliadm>yeah, I've given up on using 'guix download' for similar reasons
<skaria>im doing : export SSL_CERT_FILE=$HOME/.guix-profile/etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt
<skaria>as well
<skaria>and i still cant use wget for github
<skaria>i can use git clone though on
<skaria>just fine, having: export GIT_SSL_CAINFO=$HOME/.guix-profile/etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt
<nliadm>yeah, I can't use `guix download` for https links
<nliadm>I don't think gnutls has an environment variable it honors?
<civodul>skaria: GIT_SSL_CAINFO must contain a single entry, as you found about just above
<civodul>there was a bug that would lead to multiple colon-separated entries
<skaria>my problem isnt git's ssl though
<civodul>however, wget does not honor GIT_SSL_CAINFO nor SSL_CERT_FILE, IIRC
<civodul>it's kind of a mess, it's just more visible when using Guix on a foreign distro
<civodul>we should do something about it, which probably means departing from what upstream does (GnuTLS mostly)
<skaria>I'm using GuixSD though....
<skaria>When installing fonts via guix, what do I have to do to update fontconfig so I can use it?
<skaria>fc-cache does nothing.
<skaria>fc-cache -f did the job
<Apteryx>If my internet providers supports IPv6, does it mean I don't need a dynamic DNS to reach my home server?
<Apteryx>I should simply be able to create a rule in the firewall software of the gateway, and that's it, I guess?
<Apteryx>Also, wicd-client doesn't seem to allow using IPv6 instead of IPv4.
<cbaines>Has anyone got tips on comparing two .nar files to see how they differ
<rekado>cbaines: you can extract their contents
<rekado>cbaines: with “guix archive --extract …”
<cbaines>if I try to use guix archive -x, I get told: guix archive: error: corrupt input while restoring archive from #<input: file 0>
<rekado>note that the files you get from hydra are compressed.
<cbaines>ah, I created these with guix archive
<cbaines>do I need to compress it to make it work with guix archive -x ?
<rekado>I don’t think so, but I don’t remember.
<rekado>I only used it to extract things from nars I downloaded from hydra and the mirror.
<cbaines>does this work for anyone? guix archive --export hello | guix archive -x /tmp/hello
<cbaines>for me, I just get: guix archive: error: corrupt input while restoring archive from #<input: file 0>
<janneke>cbaines: i get that too
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<rekado>cbaines: that’s expected according to the manual:
<rekado> Single-item archives are different from multiple-item archives
<rekado> produced by ‘guix archive --export’; they contain a single store
<rekado> item, and they do _not_ embed a signature. Thus this operation
<rekado> does _no_ signature verification and its output should be
<rekado> considered unsafe.
<ryanwatkins>Does anybody here have experience with guile-wm and guix? Seems rly neat!
<janneke>ryanwatkins: I couldn't get it to be really usable, but I'd like to.
<janneke>the next thing I want to try, is get guile-wm compiled with guile-next
<ryanwatkins>janneke: anywhere I can get info on guile-next, also, what was mainly the issue with guile-wm?
<janneke>ryanwatkins: guile-next is the name of the guile-2.1.x package in guix
<janneke>my main issue is that many xcb calls do not work
<ryanwatkins>janneke: ahh. and what is xcb, its like a new X right?
<janneke>ryanwatkins: sorry, i meant icccm calls
<janneke>functions like: `top-level-windows' give some xcb error
<ryanwatkins>janneke: gotcha
<ryanwatkins>janneke: if I guix package -i guile-wm, must I put this inside my guix config?
<janneke>ryanwatkins: i don't think so; you only need to put guile-wm in config.scm if you want to get it as an option in the login screenbb
<ryanwatkins>janneke: okay, but how can one enable it on startup otherwise?
<janneke>easiest is to add it to config.scm, otherwise you need to edit ~/.xsession
<ryanwatkins>janneke: okay, and upon each config.scm update, I should guix pull, guix system reconfigure right?
<janneke>ryanwatkins: you only need to reconfigure
<janneke>pull is vaguely equivalent to apt-get update
<ryanwatkins>janneke: somehow it cannot load the config :(
<ryanwatkins>nvm, I had some random chars messing stuff.. :D, but now I get unbound variable guile-wm