IRC channel logs


back to list of logs

<ng0>someone is/was working on krita, right?
<ng0>I have this to some degree and if someone is working on it I will drop it
***atw is now known as lostcoffee
***lostcoffee is now known as atw
<clacke[m]>civodul: yep, is me. Context:
<clacke[m]>We were like six people there, of which two already used Nix, so not a major evangelization moment. :-D
<clacke[m]>more importantly for a guix context, lysator is the home of lsh :-)
<clacke[m]>thanks to decades of dedication by Prof. Haraldsson, lysator is a nest of LISPers.
<skaria>the command param -net default isnt valid:
<skaria>i think whats wanted there is -net user
<skaria>per qemu-system-x86_64(1)
<skaria>hmm, maybe it isnt -net user as im still not able to ping
<skaria>so this command worked: qemu-system-x86_64 -net nic -net user -boot menu=on -drive file=guixsd.img -drive file=guixsd-usb-install-0.12.0.x86_64-linux
<skaria>but im unable to get networking up
<skaria>i went through
<skaria>i see a device ens3 and did all that
<skaria>i cant ping a server though, i dont get a response back
<skaria>im doing guix-package --install curl to see if i have network access and qemu is shitting itself trying to do something i guess
<buenouanq>skaria: I recall that qemu catches pings or something, doesn't let them through.
<skaria>heh, qemu ran out of memory
<skaria>ok, networking works but its really slow
<skaria>im able to download the curl package
<skaria>but not ping, so you're right buenouanq
<skaria>id recommend at least 500mb of ram
<skaria>running guix package --install with 250 made qemu run out of memory
<skaria> the docs for encrypting / dont mention an unencrypted /boot, but it still is needed, correct?
<Apteryx>Anyone uses rpws & ratpoison? I'm wondering if it's possible to move one running application into my next workspace?
<Apteryx>Although I find it very neat that they are truly separate (not like Ubuntu where things get all mixed up and confusingly)
<ryanwatkins>Any haskellers here know how to setup Stack for GuixSD? :D
<cynede>is guix rolling release?
<cynede>I see, it's fixed...
<cynede>why not rolling release? is it possible to update from release to release without pain?
<buenouanq>cynede: guixsd prolly isn't comparable in that (or perhaps any) way to other distros
<buenouanq>you install whatever version of whatever package you want
<buenouanq>if not explicitly declared, it will be or update to the largest version number in the repos
<cynede>buenouanq so there is no fixed release model?
<cynede>buenouanq I mean if I will install guix 0.12 how easy it will be for me to update and what will be updated related to release
<buenouanq>it's not like anything else
<buenouanq>and this has been such a wonderful realization for me
<cynede>buenouanq it doesn't answer the questions :)
<buenouanq>cynede: you can update specific packages or everything both with the
<buenouanq>-u flag
<cynede>buenouanq so what packages are depending on release version, how is it used
<buenouanq>sounds like you're thinking about this in a debain right, yeah?
<buenouanq>things start in sid, then get moved to testing, then at somepoint there is a solidified stable release that eventually becomes oldstable etc
<buenouanq>the official guix repo seems to be just like,
<buenouanq>there are packages
<buenouanq>people update and add to them
<buenouanq>there might be different versions of things
<cynede>buenouanq there is 0.12 beta release, is it just marketing number in GNU distribution? sounds weak
<buenouanq>you want to install gnupg1 and not gnupg2, you guix package -i gnupg@1 and that's that
<cynede>buenouanq I can do the same in debian too and in bsd, in any other distribution but I just want to understand release logics here
<buenouanq>I'm sure it means something, though from the user perspective nothing has changed for me between versions.
<buenouanq>I guess I shouldn't be talking then.
<cynede>buenouanq on distrowatch release model is marked as stable and what you tell sounds alike rolling release model
<cynede>buenouanq so possibly you don't know something about it or information provided about versions is wrong or somehow different from what I expect there...
<buenouanq>maybe that more refers to things aren't available in the official repos until they have been successfully built and work without major issue.
<cynede>buenouanq no, it's still being fine in rolling release, fixed release means some stable core (for example gcc and kernel) or even bigger core (alike in FreeBSD) and packages depending on that core, and complicated model for updating that core :)
<cynede>buenouanq possibly in guix terms core == package manager version but I just want to be sure
<cynede>it's confusing
<buenouanq>I still think that this is novel in such a way that trying to box it in to the ways we've always talked about and thought of operating systems is problematic and won't work nicely.
<buenouanq>GuixSD is a meta OS.
<buenouanq>I just lurk here though - You should stick around and talk to actual devs.
<cynede>buenouanq terms are created to make people to understand some workflows, when you mark release model as fixed and actually calling it 0.12 beta you either confuse people or mean something seriously...
<cynede>buenouanq I don't know what do you mean by "meta OS" either
<lfam>cynede: Most packages are updated on our Git master branch. The default method of keeping one's Guix package up to date pulls from that master branch. But due to the functional packaging model, core packages are updated only every couple months, except for security fixes.
<buenouanq>What I see them doing is building a framework from which you then build an OS.
<buenouanq>Debian offers a product - GuixSD offers a process.
<EvilPython>How to install packages for all users in GuixSD?
<lfam>As buenouanq points out, users can easily alter the packages provided by Guix for themselves
<buenouanq>EvilPython: decaled in your os config or individually one by one
<cynede>buenouanq sounds confusing, is there distribution based on that framework?
<EvilPython>Where is config?
<buenouanq>EvilPython: wherever you put it ;3
<lfam>EvilPython: Check the manual, section 'GNU Distribution'. Specifically, section 'Using the Configuration System' explains how to make packages available for all users
<cynede>lfam I see, so there is stable core which is version but you can update it without pain in usual updating process?
<buenouanq>EvilPython: the guile file you originally built the os from on install
<EvilPython>I want to run executables from /usr/bin, /bin, /sbin.
<lfam>cynede: It's designed to be updated, downgraded, et cetera freely
<lfam>EvilPython: Those directories don't exist on GuixSD
<buenouanq>you don't have to start the installation over, you just run guix system reconfigure config.scm and it'll do it's thing
<EvilPython>I will check default PATH.
<cynede>lfam you mean I can update from 0.12 to 0.13 than downgrade back to 0.12 etc... ?
<lfam>EvilPython: I misspoke. There is /bin/sh, but that's the only file that exists in that set of directories
<lfam>cynede: Yes
<buenouanq>cynede: when this clicks, you should have this core raw joy start seeping out from deep within you
<buenouanq>this is everything you've been wanting and waiting for (-‿‿ - )
<cynede>buenouanq I don't know actually... I like many aspects of guix except GNU part LOL
<EvilPython>What is /run/current-system/profile/?
<lfam>EvilPython: A symlink to the current GuixSD profile
<buenouanq>cynede: that's silly
<cynede>buenouanq why?
<EvilPython>How to run daemons?
<cynede>buenouanq I think it's normal for user not to like suffering XD
<buenouanq>categorical GNU hate/maginalization is just dumb
<lfam>EvilPython: Please read the manual, section 'GNU Distribution'. That's where GuixSD is documented :) In short, add the daemon's Shepherd service to your OS declaration and reconfigure your system
<cynede>buenouanq I don't tell hate or stuff alike that, I tell that I don't like suffering
<cynede>buenouanq because I don't want to play my favorite game on nouveau :S
<buenouanq>Freedom is more important than capability, comfort, and convenience.
<cynede>buenouanq not
<buenouanq>luckily, thanks directly to GNU, I have more of all of these things┐( '~')┌
<lfam>We don't make any effort to restrict how you can use GNU Guix, which is free software. You're free to use it as you see fit
<cynede>lfam yes but I will be forced to package nvidia by myself and not even sure if it will be legal :S
<cynede>lfam I mean, cool, I can feel more free without nvidia, and without PC, without clothe but... something is wrong with this conception
<lfam>Like I said, you can use Guix in any way that you want. But the GNU Guix project is committed to free software. And I choose to volunteer my precious time working on free software.
<cynede>lfam what about free hardware? :D
<lfam>I'm looking forward to it :)
<buenouanq>home 3d printed lisp processors when
<ryanwatkins>lfam, do you have a day job also? I would also like to contribute to free software but I am in student debt so that is somewhat difficult :D
<lfam>Yes, I have a job and contribute to Guix when I can
<cynede>lfam thought... still, many free drivers actually support non-free hardware
<ryanwatkins>Gotcha, and is the job also functional related?
<cynede>lfam what about dropping them out XD
<lfam>No, the job is actually not related to software at all
<cynede>lfam I should stop trolling, I'm really interesting in guix, first will try package manager as parallel package manager for gentoo XD
<EvilPython>LVM Package is available. Can I really use LVM?
<lfam>We don't yet have LVM integrated into GuixSD, but you can use the LVM programs to interact with an LVM installation
<EvilPython>I mounted LVM voillume successful.
<cynede>lfam so far guix packages looks very very hard
<lfam>cynede: Some programs are very complicated to build, but some follow a standard procedure, and those are very easy to package. For example, take a look at the package for python-argcomplete in gnu/packages/python.scm
<lfam>It follows the standard method of building Python programs, and it has no dependencies besides Python itself. We've abstracted several standard build systems. This package uses python-build-system.
<lfam>You can compare it to the manual, section 'Defining Packages' to get an idea of what's going on
<cynede>lfam I wonder where you get all the menpower to make those bumps, all the packages are very up to date, last gnome, ghc 8.0.2, etc...
<lfam>There are a few dozen of us. I'm sure you can find some old packages if you try ;)
<cynede>lfam where are? there are only 150 people and distribution is young (afaik) I think even nix versions are older
<buenouanq>I would like to help package things, but I've found the manual somewhat lacking - What else might I read?
<lfam>Is there anything in particular you think is missing? We want the manual to be the go-to reference
<lfam>I started by thinking of a program that seemed simple, that I knew how to test, and that was unpackaged. Then, I tried to copy and adapt an existing package definition for this program. I got stuck and asked for help, and I've been here since :)
<cynede>lfam oh if I understand right one scm package can actually define several packages? :)
<lfam>cynede: Yes, the .scm package modules tend to contain multiple packages which are grouped by a theme. This is a popular bike shed to re-paint
<cynede>lfam, I see that's why some package were looking so monstrous, it's was meta one
<lfam>Sometimes the themes stop making sense and then we have fun deciding how to recategorize them
<lfam>Some packages truly are monstrous
<jonsger>cynede: updating a package in guix seems to be pretty easy, just update the git commit hash and rebuild :)
<lfam>Yeah, jonsger +1! And it's valuable, too, assuming you test the update and then send a patch
<cynede>lfam, jonsger I hope you also need ensure that deps are not changed
<lfam>That's part of what I mean by test the update
<lfam>You build the new version of the package and do some test of the functionality. Ideally the packaged software has a good test suite, too
<cynede>lfam, jonsger sometimes if you have newer version it will be building for you but will be broken for guy with older version, it's not just test, it's reading configure files changelog
<jonsger>cynede: sure, but guix can hold more than one version of a library or dependency
<lfam>cynede: With Guix, packages always refer to the precise version of the dependency graph they were built with, all the way down to the compilers
<lfam>The problem you mention doesn't exist for Guix
<lfam>This is the core innovation of the functional packaging model
<cynede>lfam how do you update that package then, which has many other packages depending on that package
<cynede>lfam e.g. when you want to update gtk+ you must update anything depending on gtk+ ?
<lfam>The "many other packages" are rebuilt with the new dependency graph. It can be computationally expensive, as you mention. If updating a package will cause more than a few hundred packages to be rebuilt, we don't push the update directly to the master branch, but instead batch these expensive updates together and rebuild on the scale of weeks
<lfam>Here is the strategy:
<cynede>lfam I see this new cool feature is not very free
<cynede>lfam so it makes it impossible for user to fork and update some library to version he needs?
<EvilPython>Is initrd supported?
<lfam>cynede: It's not impossible at all, but the user will probably have to build their own binaries
<cynede>lfam yes, let tell user updated gtk+ 3.22.6 into 3.22.7, all his gnome packages is depending on 3.22.6 - what user will do to not break it?
<lfam>If somebody wanted to update gtk+ on their own machine, then they'd need to rebuild any program that depends on gtk+ that they wanted to use
<lfam>Or, they could try only rebuilding certain gtk+ dependent programs, while continuing to use others that still referred to the earlier version.
<cynede>lfam why rebuild? abi is not broken, it's dynamically linked?
<lfam>We can "cheat" when there is no ABI breakage, and we do it for security updates to core packages.
<cynede>lfam also, should he edit manually all those depending scm packages to set 3.22.7 there?
<lfam>No, most packages don't specify the version of their dependencies, so there
<lfam>so there's no need to edit all the package definitions
<cynede>lfam, but you tell packages always refer to the precise version of the dependency graph
<cynede>lfam, so either that or previous problem is still present
<lfam>Version numbers are imprecise. The "precise version" we use is the SHA256 hash of all the inputs to the build process of a particular program. This includes all the transitive dependencies, all the way down to the bootstrap compiler.
<lfam>I recommend reading the paper that introduced the functional packaging model, "Nix: A Safe and Policy-Free System for Software Deployment", by Eelco Dolstra, Merijn de Jonge, and Eelco Visser. This paper concisely explains the model we are using.
<EvilPython>Is initramfs supported in GuixSD?
<cynede>lfam not sure if I understood... you've updated some gedit from version 2 to 3, u have gtk 3 installed, it works for you, user have gtk 2 installed and if version numbers are imprecise he will fail to build it
<snape>EvilPython: yes
<EvilPython>Ok. Then everything will work. Maybe.
<snape>yes, maybe :)
<lfam>Another valuable paper is "Functional Package Management with Guix" by Ludovic Courtes.
<lfam>That explains the motivation behind using Scheme.
<thomasd>hi guix
<EvilPython>Do I need EFI/BIOS Boot partition to boot from GPT?
<sneek>efraim, you have 1 message.
<sneek>efraim, lfam says: I am really interested to know how you do that!
<civodul>Hey Guix!
<EvilPython>sneek: Who are you?
<efraim>sneek is our chat bot
<EvilPython>sneek: help
<efraim>lfam: here's my .config/git/config , i'm not actually sure looking at it that I do sign emails sent through git-send-email
<efraim>qt question, does anyone know if its ok to update the qt modules piecemeal? with the tests enabled its much more work than just updating the hashes :)
<thomasd>efraim: you mean whether different modules from different qt releases are compatible, or you need to update them all at the same time? (I'm afraid I don't know, but would be interested, too ;-) )
<thomasd>would there be an opportunity to do some keysigning at FOSDEM this weekend? (apart from the official keysigning event, which takes place during the Guile/Guix track)
<EvilPython>I will try to use GNU GuixSD.
<efraim>i'm bringing some key printouts, I think it'd be great to do some on-the-side keysigning
<thomasd>I'll do the same, then.
<EvilPython>What is "interrupt took too long"?
<EvilPython>Third time!
<thomasd`>EvilPython: don't know, is this an error you're getting at startup? during installation?
<rekado_>it's a kernel message AFAIK
<EvilPython>While dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda
<thomasd`>I don't think this dd command is part of the installation procedure, though :)
<EvilPython>I think yes.
<EvilPython>I'm erasing my HDD to install GUIXSD.
<EvilPython>Fourth time!
<thomasd`>you don't have to zero the drive to install GuixSD (or any other OS)
<rekado_>EvilPython: these messages are generally harmless. They are not Guix-specific.
<EvilPython>[ time] perf: interrupt took too long (something > something), lowering kernel.perf_event_max_sample_rate to something.
<EvilPython>I'm here again.
<EvilPython>Can I ignore this message?
<dadinn>hi all
<thomasd`>by the way I seem to fail at submitting to Do you have to register in order to send messages, or is there some procedure?
<thomasd`>mabe a good time to repeat my question :) Do you have to register in order to send messages, or is there some procedure? I've tried to send a bug report twice, but don't see anything appear on the list.
<dadinn>couple of questions: 1) Is there a recommended amount for the number of build users on a single server? 2) The manual is quite terse on manually setting up an init script for guix-daemon (in case no systemd, or upstart)... I suppose I should just Google how to write a simple init script?
<efraim>I dont think there's anything special to do to get the bug message delivered, maybe if there's a large attachment or if it gets flagged as a new sender
<thomasd`>I was a new sender and did attach my system.scm config (not that it's a big file).
<efraim>The manual suggests 10 build-users, with thr number of simultaneous builds being set by flags on the guix-daemon or the like
<efraim>'Large files' in this case is only like 2mb
<efraim>It should get cleared eventually, I dont know who to poke about getting it to move faster though
<thomasd`>well, it's not an urgent bug report
<civodul>thomasd`: you can email without being subscribed
<civodul>your first message will take a few hours to reach the list (spam filtering)
<thomasd`>civodul: it's been a week now :) maybe I can resend
<thomasd`>I did accidentally e-mail "" first, don't know if this might trigger some spam detection mechanism?
<civodul>thomasd`: this is the wrong address, so it should bounce, i think
<civodul>so your message did not show up at right?
<thomasd`>civodul: no, the subject was "grub corrupt after interrupting reconfiguration", and I see nothing like that
<civodul>dunno what happened
<civodul>the subject sounds scary tho :-)
<thomasd`>I'll send it again. But maybe I'll "system reconfigure" again first, to see if it works ok this time. (If not I'll have an updated report ;-) )
<efraim>re: rocksdb FTBFS on armhf and i686, according to debian its 64-bit only
<nliadm>so I ran a gc and it removed a profile that I was using in a different shell :/
<skaria> the docs for encrypting / dont mention an unencrypted /boot, but it still is needed, correct?
<efraim>re rocksdb, i take it back, the source supports armhf
<jmi2k>How it's the neovim patch going? It seems like it's been forgotten...
<rekado_>jmi2k: ha, I did in fact forget about it.
<jmi2k>rekado_: I'm willing to install it (in fact, I packaged it myself just before you submitted yours), and I was waiting until it was submitted. What's left?
<rekado_>jmi2k: oh, I just need to make a few changes.
<rekado_>I’ll do it now.
<jmi2k>rekado_: thanks dude, I really appreciate it ;)
<lfam>Any thoughts about keeping up with the steady stream of QEMU security patches? If we applied them as they came, I think that we'd almost never have a QEMU substitutes available
<rekado_>jmi2k: are you actually using neovim?
<lfam>Using `guix system {vm,vm-image,disk-image}` would often require building QEMU on the user's machine
<jmi2k>rekado_: no, I deleted my recipes when I saw your patch. I'm using vim, but I'm waiting until I install neovim to make a proper configuration.
<skaria> the docs for encrypting / dont mention an unencrypted /boot, but it still is needed, correct?
<jmi2k>skaria: No, entire root partition is encryped IIRC. GRUB prompts for the passphrase even before showing the menu
<jmi2k>rekado_: well, I can get the recipes from a previous commit. Do you need something specific?
<rekado_>jmi2k: I was just wondering what the difference was for users.
<rekado_>jmi2k: are users using lua now to write extensions?
<rekado_>(because I’m not sure this would work with our package)
<jmd>I wish shepherd knew about kernel events.
<jmi2k>jmi2k: as I'm not an expert user, the difference is not so huge, but there are some benefits like the asynchronous plugin API that avoids delays. I just wanted to wait until installing neovim because I didn't want to move my config. Also, I'm interested in trying things like this:
<jmi2k>rekado_: what I said, I mentioned myself
<rekado_>I packaged it because a user tricked me.
<rekado_>they used my free software rhetoric against me
<jmi2k>Tell me more, this can get interesting...
<rekado_>hehe, no, it doesn’t get better
<rekado_>the person wrote a long email with lots of excuses as to why they cannot use emacs followed by an appeal to my decency
<jmd>My decency was surrendered many years ago !
<rekado_>and before I had even finished the email I was already guilted into packaging neoviw
<jmi2k>oh ok. Now that I'm getting used to package things I have both installed.
<rekado_>the user even checked the license and all, leaving me no room for an excuse
<jmi2k>And that's why I learnt to package things. No discussions, just do it yourself and send a patch!
<jmi2k>I could never imagine I would learn Scheme and use Emacs. I've had *no experience at all* with any of them, and I've been always a Vim user.
<skaria>is this a bug:
<skaria>jmi2k: you'll be more comfortable in emacs with evil
<nliadm>tbh the reason I haven't sent any patches for things I've packaged is there's no non-emacs formatter
<lfam>skaria: Are you trying to install GuixSD in a VM?
<skaria>lfam: in qemu
<ng0>I have problems with sway. I have updated its dependencies, but I can't get past a manpage generation error.
<alezost>skaria: I think no, it's just the prompt is buried with the messages, you can just press RET
<skaria>yeah, i can
<ng0>I'll sent this series now to the list with an "RFC" in the title
<skaria>oh boy, now the tty looks like shit
<skaria>oh well
<bavier`>nliadm: I'd say send your patches anyhow; whoever pushed them can reformat.
<bavier`>nliadm: but I think you can reformat them with emacs in batch mode too
<lfam>skaria: I've noticed that happens in QEMU unless you configure the video device somehow. I don't remember what configuration I had to do
<skaria> - I can only do this after running through the installation process?
<skaria>i dont have a config.scm yet
<lfam>skaria: Correct, you need an SSH daemon running on the "remote" machine in order to SSH into it
<nliadm>bavier`: that'd be great to explain/show in the Contributing docs :)
<lfam>skaria: It could be done in the installation image if you started the SSH daemon manually and set the correct networking options when invoking QEMU
<rekado_>jmi2k: pushed the neovim package. Sorry for the delay.
<jmi2k>rekado_: thanks, that was fast :)
<jmi2k>I have xcursor-vanilla-dmz packaged, but it's CC-BY-NC-SA 2.0 - not free. Someone said it *could* be included though.
<jmi2k>What do you think?
<rekado_>the FSDG distinguishes between functional and non-functional / aesthetic things
<rekado_>I don’t know what these cursor packages do to decide
<rekado_>but this makes me wonder if maybe mininim could be included after all
<rekado_>mininim is a reimplementation of the old prince of persia games
<ng0>:) cool
<rekado_>the artwork derives from the original sources, though, and the license there is unclear.
<rekado_>“unclear” because the author refuses to clarify
<rekado_>I think the problem there is that there is no explicit grant to permit verbatim copying.
<rekado_>“Data that isn't functional, that doesn't do a practical job, is more of an adornment to the system's software than a part of it. Thus, we don't insist on the free license criteria for non-functional data. It can be included in a free system distribution as long as its license gives you permission to copy and redistribute, both for commercial and non-commercial purposes.”
<ng0>hm.. if I really have problems unbundling something, that's a reason to keep the bundle, until it can be fixed, right? I'm trying to get cadaver to build with the system neo. other systems make it look so easy, but it doesn't work for my attempts
<rekado_>ng0: there is no rule either way. It depends, but in principle it can be said that bundling can be acceptable in some circumstances.
<rekado_>if other free distributions unbundled then it’s a strong indicator that bundling would not be acceptable for us.
<ng0>i think code is easier.. one moment
<ng0>the commented part was just my latest attempt
<ng0>*last attempt
<jmi2k>Parabola doesn't block it, so I think we could add it.
<ng0>the problem here (cadaver) is the limitation, but neon 30 is not incompatible, at least the way Gentoo (or was it archlinux?) fixes it
<ng0>anyone got an idea where I could put "no-more-secrets"?
<ng0>I have it in "admin" but my module selection in the repository is sometimes random
<ng0>i have the package finished.. what I mean is this:
<lfam>I'd put it in (gnu packages art)
<ng0>:D ok
<lfam>It doesn't have a "functional" purpose, right?
<ng0>none at all
<lfam>Yeah, I'd call it art
<ng0>"hollywood OS" feeling
<ng0>there's no art in guix.. that would be a new module.
<lfam>Yup :)
<ng0>that's what I wanted to avoid. well, I could search my repository and see if I have some more similar to this
<lfam>(gnu packages terminals) could also be appropriate
<rekado_>we really should have an art module.
<rekado_>or a garfunkel module if “art” is too short.
<ng0>(gnu packages hollywood)
<ng0>i think module name "art" is okay
<ng0>this could also include background, themes etc which are not specific to a certain package
<ng0>I have a branch where I might move fish to (gnu packages fish) as soon as I have enough patches
<ng0>fish extension etc
<lfam>ACTION groans at rekado_'s joke
<bavier`>ng0: there used to be a (gnu packages fish) module, but it was merged; I don't think we'd want to resurrect it
<ng0>so we add all the zsh and fish and whatnot extensions to shells?
<ng0>that's what I do right now and it doesn#t feel right
<ng0>or maybe extensions -> (gnu packages fish-extensions)
<ng0>and zsh the same
<ng0>i should probably send an email summarizing what's a patch and what's a "pick me up, i'm no longer worked on" patch, once I'm done. I still have some branches to go through
<ng0>but the cover letters are pretty clear
<ng0>hm. what's with the "gnu: libtool: Restore shebang.", has this been considered for core-updates? should I rebase it on some other branch?
<ng0>ah, I see it should be in core-updates.
<ng0>okay, it is in core-updates already. never mind then :) I was just looking at which todo items are no longer "todo"
<rekado_>ng0: have you tried using org capture with emails to keep track of them in a more natural fashion than by using just email?
<ng0>i use tags
<rekado_>they are local only, right?
<ng0>guix::patch:done , guix::patch:todo, etc
<rekado_>I see
<ng0>why should they be somewhere else than local?
<rekado_>when I used notmuch I went overboard with tagging and then lost the database a couple of times.
<ng0>I would consider other databases/applications, I jus tgot used to notmuch
<rekado_>ng0: well, I had to access email on two or three machines at the time and it hurt me that I couldn’t sync the tags to the server.
<ng0>I use no imap
<ng0>so it's okay for me
<ng0>if all my email would gather on the servers, admins would get angry in a week or two^^
<rekado_>I feel that mu4e doesn’t exactly do things the way I would like them to be done, but neither does notmuch.
<ng0>I liked frankenmutt
<rekado_>I’m afraid I’ll become like all these authors of mail client packages for Emacs and write my own one day.
<ng0>but back then I had way less emails
<rekado_>in my Arch days I used mutt, but back then I had this weird command line fetish
<ng0>mutt is weird when all you knew was the Gentoo mutt.. most distros just combine mutt, neomutt, and some other mutt patches. the combination of neomutt and mutt makes no sense to me.
<adfeno>ng0 lfam: About no-more-secrets:
<adfeno>Isn't it a program?
<ng0>it is
<adfeno>C program?
<ng0>i just pasted the link to the source
<adfeno>So it's functional :D
<ng0>it just does pipes
<adfeno>It is still.
<lfam>I thought its sole purpose was to make pretty art on the terminal
<ng0>it is
<lfam>That's what I meant by "non-functional"
<adfeno>Being software, it has control structure.
<ng0>you can run "sneakers" binary, or "cat | nms"
<lfam>I thought of it as software art
<lfam>But, it's not important to me where it goes. I only gave my advice because ng0 asked for advice.
<rekado_>lfam: that’s different, I think, although the lines are blurred.
<rekado_>“non-functional” in the FSDG sense means “inert data”
<lfam>I see, I didn't mean to use the word in that sense
<adfeno>The effect is very cool though! :D
<lfam>"Functional" is a word that has too many definitions, even if you limit the scope to computing
<adfeno>I might use it at video sometime.
<ng0>hm. is someone running guixsd on a server? I don't know of a way I could test my debbugs package
<rekado_>ng0: my i686 “server” is running GuixSD.
<ng0>debbugs requires exim,postfix,or some similar software
<nliadm>something that implements the sendmail interface?
<ng0> - The bug system requires its own mail domain. It comes with code
<ng0> which understands how exim, qmail and sendmail deliver mail for such a
<ng0> domain to a script.
<ng0>with the other points in README, I'm pretty sure we need a service to make it functional on GuixSD
<nliadm>wait, isn't debbugs not pacakged in debian
<ng0>what's that double negative doing there?
<ng0>what I mean is this:
<ng0>350 Fri. 18:06 [1/2] contact.ng0@crypt... [PATCH] gnu: Add debbugs.
<nliadm>I mean, I think I remember looking into it and seeing that debbugs wasn't packaged in debian, and being very surprised
<ng0>okay, but that's not very relevant for me
<ng0>there is a sort-of build system
<ng0>I mean there is a build system. for the perl parts it's just not very clear
<ng0>I must say I haven't read into the codebase enough
<rekado_>ng0: do you mean the perl-build-system isn’t clear?
<ng0>It's not clear if what I install now with debbugs will make debbugs functional or if it requires more perl
<ng0>if it does, that's a defect in their Makefile
<rekado_>Perl is everywhere, so it’s hard for people on traditional systems to know what needs to be tested for during the configure step
<ng0>that's not really what I mean
<ng0>it succeeds to build. but I can't check if it *runs*
<rekado_>I understood.
<ng0>oh, ok
<rekado_>you could take a look at the perl files and see what they import.
<rekado_>if something looks really obscure it might be a missing dependency.
<rekado_>doesn’t have to be completely thorough
<rekado_>but I think it’s on the submitters to make sure that the software they add actually runs.
<ng0>the thing is, there is this folder in the source, "Debbugs", which includes many perl modules which are never copied..
<ng0>ng0@wasp ~/r/d/debbugs-> ls Debbugs/
<ng0> DBase/
<ng0>referecend in debbugs-service, debbugs-dump, scripts/, and that's it
<ng0>I'll give searching more modules a try, and ask upstream tomorrow. that's all I can do then
<quigonjinn>having gcc-toolchain in an environment, does not providee with x32 headers and libraries, such as <stubs-32.h> ,right?
<bavier`>quigonjinn: no, but maybe avr-toolchain does
<ng0>hm. I need "" and ""
<ng0>but I'm not sure if I need it. I don
<ng0>'t read Nix so well
<ng0>makeFlags = [ "config=release" ] ++ stdenv.lib.optionals stdenv.isDarwin [ "bits=64" ] ++ stdenv.lib.optionals (stdenv.isDarwin && (!lto)) [ "lto=no" ];
<ng0>that seems to be darwin only
<ng0>okay reading the readme again, what I really mean: which package, if at all, provides these files? gcc?
<ng0>I need gcc (canonical-package gcc) i think
<ng0>yeah that should work, and it'll take a while longer until I have a fixed "ponyc" package