<alezost>cehteh: sorry, I'm completely lost after all. Apparently it relates to the amount of data, but I don't know what to do about it (I don't even understand if it can be fixed in Geiser or if it's a general Emacs problem or something else)
<ZombieChicken>Any way to know if my emails to the mailing list have been filtered somehow? I've sent a few emails to the mailing list (one was to help-guix and the other guix-devel) and neither have arrived after over 24 hours
<ng0>I also need to write tests (and I think services and more) for secure_delete and plymouth. I don't know which one of those will be harder, for secure_delete I have already figured out that the way I want to integrate it will take some time as my inspiration system uses systemd. plymouth is pre-boot, should be easier.
<ng0>hm. notmuch-vim (the vim version, or the vim folder in the source) needs ruby-mail. I have no idea about ruby.. All ruby software I tried to package so far failed in ways I do not understand. Do we have anyone working with ruby? Or anyone interested in packaging that gem (mail) ?
<ng0>but gem mail looks doable. everything else differed from the expectations of the build system
<ng0>isn't the description for package "vifm" much too long?
<pareidolia>Does anyone have experience running Nix against the Guix daemon and store?
<pareidolia>Some derivations use the builtin:fetchurl builder, which the daemon apparently lacks
<jmi2k>Can't xcursor Vanilla DMZ be packaged for Guix because of the license? It's CC-BY-NC-SA.
<jmi2k>(well, instead of packaged, read *shipped*)
<rekado>NC makes it non-free, though ISTR there are exceptions for non-functional artifacts such as artwork in games.
<jmi2k>I love that theme and I'm going to package it for myself, but if I can add it better. Well, if I decide to try, I'll put a warning about the license. In this case, what should I put in the license field?
<adfeno>One must question if these types of data are functional or not.
<dvc>civodul: creating a vm replaces the default file-systems with new ones. this is currently hardcoded to be ext4. then btrfs-progs aren't available in qemu-image and I'd like to avoid adding it if not necessary, and format-partition in guix/build/vm.scm, not sure if that will work for btrfs
<Apteryx>The check it does is: if("Netscape"==navigator.appName&&navigator.appVersion<"5"&&window.crypto)
<Apteryx>I've tested Firefox ESR 45.6 on Windows and it returns an appVersion of 5.0
<dvc>mounting "my-home" to /home cannot work again.
<Apteryx>So it seems our setup which does something differently (because of this general.appversion.override thing)
<adfeno>Apteryx: I suspect it's an error on part of XFINITY due to general.useragent.override being "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/45.0", and this one having "5.0" there.
<Apteryx>navigator.appVersion and navigator.userAgent are not related apparently (I asked on #firefox).
<Apteryx>Well it's a hack, but a hack that should work given that the usual appVersion string goes like "5.0 (Windows)"
<dvc>civodul: <boot-parameters> and <menu-entry> are essentially the same thing or not? I think we can pass <boot-parameters> to a grub bootloader or an uboot bootloader. Or do you think it would be better to have each bootloader specify their own <menu-entry> record? I think that <boot-parameters> neatly represents a system generation and that a bootloader should take a list of system generations. instead we currently have logic in
<dvc>system.scm that converts system generations to "grub specific" menu-entries.
<civodul>dvc: yeah there's a correspondance between the two, but hey have different purposes
<Apteryx>adfeno: I'll send a mail to guix-bugs and question why we should mess with the appversion in the first place.
<dvc>civodul: alternative: Is <menu-entry> something that should be moved to system.scm and common to all bootloaders?
<Apteryx>adfeno: I'm suspecting it to be caused by an extension (add-on) since there's nothing suspicious done at the package definition.
<ng0>I'll test obconf in a minute or so, I just need to re-configure a test-system
<dvc>or alternative2: We pass <boot-parameters> to the bootloaders and they convert <boot-parameters> -> <menu-entry> internally, while users can still specify additional menu-entries in their operating-system definition?
<dvc>another small change to the operating-system semantics I'm thinking about and would like manolis feedback on is changing the kernel parameter to take a gexp instead of a package. So it would be used like this: (kernel #~(file-append #$hurd "/gnuhurd.gz"))
<adfeno>Apteryx: Doesn't seem so, because the variable name isn't marked as bold.
<janneke>has something changed wrt using guix-prettify? it errors out in my init.el
<Apteryx>adfeno: Ah, nice to know, I didn't bold entries meant they had been altered by extensions!
<janneke>Reading symbols from /gnu/store/1wsgsls4n6fc7dji8fffbz6ahwk870mc-emacs-25.1/bin/.emacs-25.1-real...warning: the debug information found in "/home/janneke/.guix-profile/lib/debug//gnu/store/1wsgsls4n6fc7dji8fffbz6ahwk870mc-emacs-25.1/bin/.emacs-25.1-real.debug" does not match "/gnu/store/1wsgsls4n6fc7dji8fffbz6ahwk870mc-emacs-25.1/bin/.emacs-25.1-real" (CRC mismatch).
<civodul>janneke: ooh. could you try with --no-grafts?
<dvc>janneke: can you explain more about how mes works? is it both a scheme interpreter and a c compiler written in scheme?
<janneke>dvc: the idea is to minimize [or even remove] the bootstrap binaries
<janneke>so primarily it's a very small scheme interpeter, written in hex/assembly
<janneke>that scheme interpreter must be able to run a C compiler; eventually we need to compile gcc
<janneke>i have prototyped the minimal scheme interpreter in C
<dvc>so you are planning on reimplementing gcc's build system using mes? or how would that compile without autotools? I'm clear on the goal - but I'm having difficulty understanding how it's going to be accomplished
<dvc>so the idea is that mes and tinycc together can bootstrap all of guixsd?
<rekado>dvc: the C compiler in mes might be enough to build a less demanding C compiler.
<rekado>GCC is written in C++, so a mere C compiler won’t be sufficient.
<adfeno>lfam: Perhaps its better to answer to both cases.
<lfam>GNUnymous_IRC: Assuming you installed Guix on another distro by following the instructions in the manual, section 2.1 Binary Installation, then all users are using the `guix` package in root's profile. As the manual says, "The guix package must remain available in root’s profile, or it would become subject to garbage collection—in which case you would find yourself badly handicapped by the lack of the guix command. In other words,
<lfam> do not remove guix by running guix package -r guix."
<lfam>I haven't tried this, but it does work for other packages: As root, `guix package --remove guix --install guix`
<adfeno>dvc: "Programmer's worst nightmear"? I'm not a programmer, but it seems t be an interesting read.
<lfam>GNUnymous_IRC: I'm not sure why you'd want to do this, however.
<lfam>If you have a deeper question, you should ask that question instead :)
<lfam>GNUnymous_IRC: The manual section 3.2 "Invoking guix package" explains how to search the list of available packages. That is, `guix package --search`. If Guix is not installed, you can view the package list on our web page: https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/packages/
<dvc>adfeno: maybe time to become one? what's the point in all this freedom if you can't exercise it? :)
<jmi2k>How do I set the cursor theme (for example, redglass)? I've put "Xcursor.theme: redglass" in my .Xdefaults and it doesn't work.
<jmi2k>I've done it before, but I just don't know what I'm missing...
<adfeno>Although I don't have enough money to travel around giving talks. So I generaly talk to people at college instead.
<ZombieChicken>back to the stone age and IMAP access I guess. grumble grumble
<dvc>adfeno: good if that works for you! I try to convince people that linux it technically superior and that it doesn't matter if they end up developing apps, webapplications or embedded systems, it all uses linux, so you better learn it. but not even that gets me very far - mostly because people are simply lazy (IMO)
<ZombieChicken>dvc: People don't think about the servers they work wtih every day of their lives, and learning an OS other than Windows takes actual effort (even if it is a very small amount)
<quiliro>dvc: not a question of quality but of freedom
<ZombieChicken>and Linux/the BSDs are still seen as overly nerdy these days it seems,
<dvc>imagine talking about freedom if you can even reach them on a "it's to your advantage to learn it"
<dvc>I think people would think I'm crazy :) (Probably they already do xD)
<ZombieChicken>dvc: Are you talking about users or devs regarding that statement? Or sysops, as well
<rekado>oh, there are many gratis applications for that
<dvc>they press play and it runs and can submit their exercises online I think
<rekado>the price really isn’t that interesting to the people I usually talk to.
***jonsger1 is now known as jonsger
<lfam>Few of my friends are into software development. Talking about "free software" with them is endlessly frustrating. Literally every person interprets it as "gratis". I have to use "open-source".
<Apteryx>From what I remember from my last investigation of configuring a personal email server, the problem would have likely been with reverse DNS lookups performed by most mail providers to detect spam, i.e. as long as you don't have a domain with a static IP you're going to get flagged as spam at most places.
<dvc>I tell people that I like compiling software myself. and that google and banks don't use software they don't compile themselves so why should I =P
<lfam>But, I can fix my terminology sooner than I fix this bug ;)
<rekado>lfam: in German I can use “freie Software” and people don’t usually assume that it means gratis
<Apteryx>I don't want to pay hundreds of $ per year just to get a "static DNS", and renting one of those virtual servers pretty much defeats the reason I'd like to host my own server (keep control over my data).
<dvc>if you don't mind using nonfree software you should be able to do (package (inherit) (source (origin "linux"))) and install guix on the rpi guix system build --no-grub your operating system and then manually boot guixsd from the uboot console. You'll also need to delete a bunch of x86 modules from the initrd, but this should basically work.
<ZombieChicken>If you're installing GuixSD onto an ARM system and having to remove x86 code from the initrd, I think that's a bug
<jmi2k>dvc: I prefer installing Guix in another distro, but thanks ;)
<pareidolia>I am looking for a package that provides i965_drv_video.so for accellerated video decoding. In Nix it is called "vaapi-intel" is there an equivalent I overlooked?
<ng0>ZombieChicken: they already do, but the problem is that they default to locking tor out
<ng0>yet they celebrated themselves with fixing the issue :/
<lfam>pareidolia: I'm not sure, but perhaps the libva package?
<pareidolia>lfam: It installs only dummies when I do guix package -i livba
<ng0>civodul: I've gone through old threads, and I maybe will give torbrowser another try once the two other browsers I'm workin on are finished
<lfam>pareidolia: Sorry, I don't know anything about this area. Hopefully someone else has some useful advice
<rekado>xfontsel tells me “Error: Aborting: no font found”
<ng0>do you think we could/should add the tor lts version however they end up deciding on the RFC discussion they have right now about this? Or do we stick with just most current release?
<rekado>I already installed font-terminus (a bitmap font) and ran fc-cache -f
<lfam>ng0: Can we build a Tor browser that remote hosts cannot distinguish from the Tor project's Tor browser? I thought that making sure Tor browser users were all indistinguishable from each other was the point of using Tor's build.
<ng0>we should advise that the build is no official build, as the gentoo (not portage) build does
<lfam>For example, Debian doesn't build their own; they just provide a shim to allow users to install it directly from the Tor project
<rekado>their thought was that by competing with them I destroy their motivation (or their funds) to continue developing the free core.
<dvc>well, if they are the main developers of the free core I can understand the sentiment. Taking someone elses free software and simply selling a proprietary extension is a different story
<dvc>but they have other things they should focus on - like good customer relations
<dvc>that's what makes a business survive not necessarily the product
<dvc>a customer wants someone to care and solve their painful problem. how it is solved matters less to them. customers that just want cheap or free are usually "bottom feeders" and customers that will drop you as soon as rekado writes a free extension :)
<adfeno>.. The page also is editable, and is meant to provide ways to pressure CloudFlare on changing the situation, or is meant for us to find a way to write a GreaseMonkey userscript to provide same functionalities as the non-free JS.
<rekado>I’m a big fan of the idea of .js and the promise of taking the web serious as a service platform.
<dvc>well any good webapplication provides some form of API nowadays which is used by all clients, web, mobile or other
<dvc>so in theory someone could write a different client if they feel strongly about it.
<rekado>unfortunately, that’s still pretty rare when considering the bulk of web applications out there.
<rekado>web developers often take APIs for granted, but rarely pass the advantages on to users
<dvc>ok - if I develop a webapplication it will have a documented interface. who am I to restrict others from using my service in ways I haven't imagined? :)
<rekado>I think one of the reasons why there isn’t really a community of developers of alternative web frontends for web services is that few even consider that the JS they run in their browser is very much like a regular desktop application.
<rekado>it’s a bit odd that we’ve come from JS as a scripting tool to add annoying snowflake animations to writing full client-side applications, but most of us treat these applications as if they had to be taken as they are
<adfeno>rekado: I don't know if this can be proven to be worldwide misconception (by society, that is): But I agree with your message about most people thinking that JS isn't client-side software.
<dvc>a desktop application can do real damage dough. a js application is much more restricted. and if someone takes the time to write a different frontend, they can just aswell also write a free backend or not?
<adfeno>dvc: There are other ways to make money, you don't need to make such compromise as to help spread non-free software.
<dvc>it's not spreading non-free software. it's solving a painful problem for a target audience in a way that doesn't restrict or hurt customers but enable them. free or nonfree has nothing to do with it as my customers don't care and I don't care for people who are not my customers (at least in this hypothetical case)