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***Digitteknohippie is now known as Digit
<civodul>so debbugs is kinda dead, i guess i can go to bed
<civodul>maybe it's just debbugs.el that's dead, hmm!
<fr33domlover>hey, newbie question: On GuixSD, if I build some web app from source (say a Java one), what's the usual/recommended way to run it on the server? in debian-based distros I usually create a new system user that runs the app using cron or initscript
<fr33domlover>(my real use case: I have a spare home server on which I'd like to install GuixSD and run a Yacy search engine instance there)
<civodul>fr33domlover: you would create a GuixSD "service" that creates the new user, the mcron job, and the PID 1 job
<civodul>a Yacy service would be nice :-)
<fr33domlover>civodul, thanks :-) I used to run Yacy but that java monster just eats so much RAM I couldn't handle it
<fr33domlover>maybe that spare server will
<civodul>uh, i see
<mbuf>* missed the /join
<ng0>sneek: later tell efraim: I think I found some parts in psyclpc which cause it not to be reproducible. I will test this today and if lynX happens to be online today, it'll be fixed today or within the next days, otherwise I will already include it in guix as a patch phase before it goes into upstream
<jmd>How do I make a particular locale available to GuixSD ?
<jmd>I have installed tzdata, but "local -a" shows that only C and POSIX are available.
<rekado>kyamashita: could it be that your editor converts the line endings automatically?
<rekado>kyamashita: I’ve previously patched software with DOS line endings and created a patch. Neither Guix nor git have a problem with that.
<jmd>How can I get a list of all packages in the system profile?
<iyzsong>jmd: guix package -p /run/current-system/profile -I
<iyzsong>also, you can read the 'manifest' file.
<jmd>Where is the "manifest" file?
<jmd>Ah I see.
<jmd>I have installed glibc-locales. Yet when I run "locale -a" I see only C and POSIX. how do I get the rest of them?
<ng0>I will package alsa-plugins today. looks like this is needed for the way I configure alsa and makes mpd fail
<iyzsong>the `locale` command doesn't respect GUIX_LOCPATH, i think it needed be patched to work.
<jmd>iyzsong: It seems that nothing else does either.
<iyzsong>yeah, I noticed that gnome-desktop use 'locale' to find avaliable languages, it's broken so GNOME give no countries in its keyboard settings. Likely we really need patch it..
<jmd>iyzsong: I'll see what I can do.
<jmd>I suppose such a patch will have to go in core-updates
<iyzsong>jmd: yes, I think too. thanks in advance :-)
<rekado>davexunit: you said some time ago that the xwidgets branch didn’t support https, but that’s actually handled by glib-networking. Here’s a package definition (recent master with my xwidgets patches) that works for me:;a=blob;f=libre/custom/packages/variants.scm;h=3f1f5c560b10da010433401287d31557b3ac6b56;hb=HEAD#l67
<rekado>that’s what I currently use to develop more browser features for Emacs.
<ng0>should we build alsa with pulseaudio support? I'd add this after I've succesfully build alsa-plugins
<ng0>or do you want this separated?
<rekado>AFAIK there’s no pulseaudio support for alsa
<rekado>there’s alsa support for pulseaudio
<iyzsong>pulseaudio depends on alsa.. how alsa use pulseaudio?
<ng0>yikes, my bad
<rekado>ACTION goes afk
<ng0>i meant: should I build "alsa-plugins" with support for pulseaudio?
<iyzsong>yeah, that make sense. I think it should.
<ng0>I was not sure about alsa <-> pulseaudio for a moment
<ng0>I have to deal with some personal letter, and I'm pcsakaging this for distraction (and because i need the plugins)
<ng0>it can also be build with ffmpeg (a52 plugin).. I'd rather build it with libav, but we currently only have ffmepg
<ng0>which application gives you the binary "ldd" again?
<jmd>Should it be respecting LOCPATH or GUIX_LOCPATH or both?
<ng0>is it possible that there are problems on savannah?
<ng0>webview works, but guix pull fails
<ng0>now webview is failing to load too
<ng0>hopefully savannah infra admins already know this.
<jmd>ng0: Why don't you ask on #savannah ?
<ng0>because I'm very ignorant of irc and did not know that there's the channel for that. I thought it's all mailing list
<rekado>ng0: what does support for pulseaudio entail?
<ng0>building the pulseaudio plugin
<ng0>alsa-plugins is the provider of plugins for alsa
<ng0>I haven't read the docs, I will do this later
<ng0>k, found the readme for the plugin
<ng0>This plugin allows any program that uses the ALSA API to access a PulseAudio
<ng0>sound daemon. In other words, native ALSA applications can play and record
<ng0>sound across a network.
<ng0>because we want it feature-full, I think this is something we should have
<ng0>also ffmpeg. I'll replace this with libav as soon as we have libav packaged
<rekado>yes, that sounds good.
<rekado>(about the alsa->pulseaudio plugin; dunno about ffmpeg/libav)
<ng0>ffmpeg provides an a52 plugin. i think when people install alsa-plugins they expect the whole suite
<rekado>I think other distributions split the plugins, so that you can pick a suitable subset
<rekado>we could do this with different outputs per plugin
***jluttine_ is now known as jluttine
<ng0>my second distribution is the land of splitting (gentoo).. i have no idea how archlinux and others do it these days
<ng0>i don't know if this is possible in one package
<rekado>sure it’s possible :)
<rekado>we just need to copy the binaries to separate outputs
<ng0>post-build move binaries?
<rekado>usually that’s sufficient to keep references separate
<ng0>i'll try that, should succeed with it in time. I'll be away later
<rekado>no rush
<ng0>I have to look at ldd output again.. it's possible that there are libraries which reference all of those and not separate them
<ng0>maybe it's possible for a subset or all of the bigger dependencies
<dvc>I'm running into a problem trying to update kf5, specifically the kservice package. I figured out what the problem is and how to fix it on our end, but I do not understand how it ever compiled for the kservice developers...
<dvc>So the kservice package uses flex to generate a lexer for the kservice configuration files. extra-cmake-modules forces C89 for all C files for compatibility on windows. The generated flex lexer contains single line comments. Single line comments where added with C99, so it won't compile if C89 is forced. How did this ever compile on their end?
<dvc>this took a while to debug. I had to guess that extra-cmake-modules is messing with my cflags and that the single line comments where added by flex...
<ng0>(import kdev.magic)
<ng0>that's how
<Petter>Just a comment. Epiphany has failed to show anything but whiteness for me for a while. Removing 'gst-plugins-bad' suddenly made it fly again. Guess that plugin really is bad.
<ng0>maybe another distro has a patch to fix that?
<ng0>is there a shorter example for splitting than git?
<ng0>oh, the old lispf4 package did that easier
<ng0>yeah, no rush. I'll send the updated alsa-plugins today or tomorrow.
<dvc>Petter: the gst-plugins-ugly are no doubt ugly, just by looking at the dependencies. I'm not sure if gst-plugins-bad or gst-plugins-ugly depend on mysql?! What does an audio/video codec need a full blown sql database for? ;)
<fr33domlover>Q: some software is meant to be configured at build time, e.g. using config.h header file, like most suckless software
<fr33domlover>does Guix make it easy/possible to tweak config but still keep track of the installed package?
<fr33domlover>in other distros usually it means you build from source manually and then you have no automatic upgrades etc.
<dvc>(package (inherit package-name) *change some settings*)
<jmd>fr33domlover: Lots of packages have a config.h. Why is that ugly?
<dvc>weird, arch linux doesn't even add flex as a dependency *dvc doesn't understand the world anymore*
<fr33domlover>jmd, I'm not saying it's ugly. Just saying it would be nice to be able to tweak the config.h and still use the package manager to track the package
<jmd>and why cant you?
<ng0>fr33domlover: you can use the substitute function for that. it's a unfortunate for suckless software. That's one of the use-cases where guix can act like the gentoo "saved-config"
<dvc>jmd: kservice fails to build for me without flex and bison
<ng0>I'd give an complete example, but I won't be able to write this in the next days
<fr33domlover>ng0, thanks
<dvc>jmd: they are obviously not running into the issue I'm running into...
<fr33domlover>By the way I just installed 'slock' and when I run it, it says: cannot disable the out-of-memory killer for this process (make sure to suid or sgid slock)
<fr33domlover>is this a bug in the package?
<ng0>fr33domlover: basically you want to look at some package which uses substitute, and apply that to a package which "inherits" the package you want to change, and only change the (arguments) phase. so you can change default servers line for ii for example
<ng0>for slock, i might be the one to blame, idk ... i packaged lots of suckless. I'd be happy if someone could fix it, I won't have time for that before tuesday or wednesday
<ng0>there's a section about suid in the documentation of guix though
<ng0>maybe it needs a service
<dvc>ah now I understand :):
<iyzsong>fr33domlover: on GuixSD, suid programs need be services (the screen-locker-service does that for slock).
<fr33domlover>iyzsong, ng0 thanks :-) i just started using Guix (on top of Trisquel for now), i still need to read docs
<ng0>it would be great if we could simply the changes for suckless applications, but so far I don't know a better way than a local GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH or what the vsariable was
<iyzsong>fr33domlover: sure, welcome! in that case slock from guix won't work, you can use the Trisquel one.
<dvc>hmm, is core-updates frozen already? I can't update kde frameworks without patching or updating flex. and since flex is needed at compile time it can't be grafted
<iyzsong>I think so... temporary, you can introduce a new flex (inherit and add patch) for kde.
<iyzsong>ng0: I think 'guix build dwm --with-source=/path/to/dwm-checkout' is a better way.
<ng0>maybe.. behavior patterns. I'm used to gentoo
<ng0>don't like something? Add something to your local / external overlay
<ng0>rekado: I've just sent revision 2 of alsa-plugins
<ng0>separates pulseaudio and out, rest I wasn't sure how to deal with
<ng0>I'm away now.. have a nice weekend o/
<dvc>lfam: Are you here? :)
<dvc>doesn't look like it.
<Apteryx>Anyone would know if I'm supposed to be able to override some colors of a GTK theme using my ~/.gtkrc-2.0 file? So far I've been able to *use* a theme, I could probably create *another* theme, but I haven't figured out how to modify one wihout hacking the theme files themselves.
<Apteryx>Also, funny thing is that Qt does just uses whatever is in my ~/.Xresources file, which does what I want. I wish things were as simple on the GTK side.
<Apteryx>Finally got the missing detail for a basic GTK color swap: the "class" line. For anyone interested in configuring their GTK colors with nothing else than a text editor, feel free to look at "my" ~/.gtkrc-2.0 template, which is a minimal subset of bits stolen from the Arc-Darker theme:
<kyamashita>Apteryx: Interesting and useful information. Thank you!
<Apteryx>kyamashita: :)
<paroneayea>what's up civodul
<civodul>dvc: [PATCH 01/68] !
<civodul>hey paroneayea!
<civodul>browsing the list messages
<civodul>as a way to avoid thinking too much about the next Hard Problem
<paroneayea>civodul: I know how that is :)
<civodul>like this one:
<paroneayea>I got submitted a patch this morning to guile... for that same reason :)
<paroneayea>ACTION *should* have done standards things...
<civodul>ah good, i should check it out :-)
<civodul>what's the deadline for the W3C thing?
<paroneayea>civodul: ah I wondered if that was the hard thing :)
<paroneayea>civodul: heh, tricky answer. It's been pushed back a few times. But in theory, tuesday at noonish here.
<paroneayea>for the next step anyway (CR)
<civodul>Tuesday, ok
<paroneayea>we got a lot of great feedback though
<paroneayea>so my goal is to get it all incorporated by then
<paroneayea>way more feedback than I anticipated... good problems to have :)
<civodul>quite some pressure i guess
<paroneayea>I look forward to not working on standards editing itself though
<paroneayea>I'd rather be implementing the standard than editing it :)
<paroneayea>oh well
<civodul>heh :-)
<dvc>civodul: what's with that patch?
<lfam>Yikes, many new libtiff bugs publicized:
<lfam>I guess we'll have to graft them on core-updates as well as master. Otherwise we have to rebuild almost everything
<lfam>Keeping up with bug disclosures in the image libraries is at least a part-time job!
<paroneayea>ACTION dreams of a day when guixops is appealing enough / solving enough problems where we can run a deployment company and hire guix hackers to keep things up to date
<lfam>I too dream of this ;)
<paroneayea>maybe a far away dream. maybe not. I guess time will tell..!
<lfam>I also dream of a service where users upload an OS configuration and we offer them a VPS.
<paroneayea>or even better, serve a web application that provides some menus to select the system you want
<paroneayea>and then programmatically generate the system definition from those selections!
<lfam>Yes, that would be awesome
<rekado>lfam: thank you so much for keeping up with the many mails on oss-security!
<paroneayea>yes thank you lfam :)
<lfam>rekado: Heh, you're welcome! Some others have been reading them, too, I can tell :)
<rekado>lfam: I wonder if there’s something we could automate there
<lfam>We already have the CVE linter
<lfam>Often, fixing the bugs requires some ingenuity
<lfam>I'm not sure how exactly what we could automate. We could automatically beg upstream maintainers to not use CVS ;)
<rekado>I really didn’t expect the security list to be so busy
<lfam>Getting patches out of CVS is a huge PITA for me
<rekado>I can imagine
<lfam>What should take ~15 minutes for libtiff will take much longer today
<dvc>fyi I didn't use flex 2.6.2 because a) kservice doesn't compile with it and b) it makes help2man a required dependency, which I think is probably a regression.
<lfam>Well, I guess it's enough that there *is* active maintenance of the free software image libraries. That alone is a huge contribution to free software
<lfam>dvc: Okay, please add an explanatory code comment :)
<lfam>And of course, all the people fuzzing the libraries are doing valuable work, too.
<lfam>I guess it's not too much to fight with CVS for a little while :)
<civodul>hey lfam :-)
<civodul>paroneayea: re guixops & hiring, i'm sure one of you could apply for a relevant grant to work on 'guix deploy' for some time
<lfam>civodul: I should be fixing broken Python packages on core-updates, but instead I'm working on libtiff. With luck I'll finish both tonight
<civodul>lfam: ok, i'm really amazed by how you manage to keep track of all this!
<paroneayea>civodul: I probably should do that
<paroneayea>maybe I'll apply for some grants... after tuesday ;)
<lfam>civodul: I get a little help from all the work that everyone else does! We complain about Hydra but can you imagine if we totally lacked a CI tool?!
<paroneayea>There is no I in GNU!
<paroneayea>there is in Linux I guess but let's ignore that.
<dvc>speaking of ci, cuirass's webgui needs a flag package as outdated feature
<lfam>paroneayea: The kernel is just an implementation detail ;)
<lfam>To steal and paraphrase from the systemd authors...
<civodul>hey, marusich!
<civodul>it's party time tonight, all the hackers are around :-)
<civodul>well not all, but quite a few
<paroneayea>lfam: heh :)
<Apteryx>which area?
<marusich>Hi there!
<lfam>Apteryx: Cyberspace!
<Apteryx>lfam: Ah ha! Cool!
<lfam>I'm stuck with CVS! The libtiff log contains these entries:
<lfam>Using `cvs diff -u -r1.1142 -r1.1143 tools/tiff2pdf.c` returns nothing!
<lfam>I want the changes in r1.1143
<lfam>I used this method in the past to extract patches, and it worked for the last round of libtiff bug fixes
<paroneayea>lfam: I wonder if somethin like this can be used
<paroneayea>maybe that's too heavy-handed though
<lfam>Last time, I tried using that and found it easier to just learn enough CVS. But this time... who knows?
<lfam>The problem is that I don't know CVS's underlying data model at all, so I'm really in the dark
<lfam>This difficulty is the reason I included a reproducer command line in the patches the last time around, so I could remind myself for the next time.