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<lime_>anyone know any chips I can replace my wifi in my thinkpad with freesoftware ones so it works
<OriansJ>well lime_ TPE-N150USB is RYF certified and usb if that is acceptable
<lime_>well there's only two usb ports but I guess
<lime_>I'd rather it all internal
<OriansJ>you might have check compatibility but one of these might work for you:
<ng0>so i am packaging an autoconf version from '99 because some lazy devs still use it... oO
<ZombieChicken>ng0: What package depends on that, if I may ask
<ZombieChicken>Is there some docs on how to setup Guix for a user account?
<ZombieChicken>I'm wanting to try it out on my desktop, but I'd rather not have anything installed as root
<Nyxus>random question! Does linux lack the same technical excellence that bsd aspires to?
<ijp>have you stopped beating your wife?
<ZombieChicken>Nyxus: Define "technical excellence". And understand that the BSDs are more of a whole than Linux and it's userland is, so things aren't quite as put together as they probably are in BSD-land
<hugo_dc>is it possible to program in Java/Clojure using GuixSD?
<taylan>hugo_dc: OpenJDK is packaged. don't know about clojure things.
<ZombieChicken>Clojure runs in the JVM
<taylan>right, but might be a pain if not packaged by guix, I thought
<taylan>the openjdk package is icedtea BTW
<hugo_dc>great!, thank you!
<taylan>ijp: what was that about? O_o
<hugo_dc>I think it should work with openjdk
<ijp>taylan: the question struck me as loaded, so I responded with another
<taylan>ijp: oh, well, that was confusing
<ZombieChicken>ijp: Responses like that also drive people away
<ZombieChicken>Nyxus: Both have out-of-date filesystem designs, the kernels (other than /maybe/ NetBSDs) are kind of crappy, and basically it's all still 80's tech
<ZombieChicken>But that is just my opinion
<ijp>ZombieChicken: that is possible, but at least in this instance, I'd say my assessment was born out
<ZombieChicken>ijp: I don't think so
<ZombieChicken>but whatever
<ijp>ACTION shrugs
<Nyxus>ZombieChicken: Thanks for the reply!
<Nyxus>The only reason I asked is because I've just seen an epic rant from a BSD guy dumping on GNU/Linux.
<ZombieChicken>Everyone thinks their OS is better than everyone else's
<ZombieChicken>Anyone here installed guix for a user account?
<ZombieChicken>Can I install the store and everything in $HOME?
<adfeno>Hi, I'm using Guix in Trisquel, how can I make sure that the system sees libraries at that are in the store?
<adfeno>I guess I'll just creat a symlink from the specific library I need that is in my profile, to the "/lib" directory.
<quigonjinn>adfeno: you need to export the appropriate environment variables
<adfeno>I guess I must have overlooked something in the Guix installation, or it wasn't mentioned.
<quigonjinn>when you install the packages, guix should tell you which ones
<adfeno>I only saw the one about locale setting.
<adfeno>... not lib setting.
<quigonjinn>something like: export LIBRARY_PATH="$HOME/.guix-profile/lib:$LIBRARY_PATH"
<quigonjinn>.guix_profile is the appropriate file to export from, if i'm not mistaken
<adfeno>".guix_profile" or ".guix-profile"?
<quigonjinn>adfeno: if guix is installed correctly, the directory ".guix-profile" should exist in your home dir
<adfeno>yep. :)
<adfeno>It's there indeed.
<adfeno>I was just wondering if applications would be able to see those libraries there.
<adfeno>I think I'll make a Guix publisher available
<adfeno> I just have to find a DNS service provider.
<Fare>how usable is guix these days?
<Fare>is there someone with experience in both guix and nix who can contrast the experiences?
<Hermit>I've tried guix, but was too busy to figure out how to make it work the way I need. (luks (lvm / swap /home ...))
<Hermit>so I just postponed it, still using nixos
<ZombieChicken>Fare: As the website states, it isn't production ready. If you want to try it out, I suggest starting with a virtual machine
<ZombieChicken>and see if it will do what you want there
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<lime_>why is my icecat session appearing as windows
<lime_>quite funny actually
<lime_>and can anyone recommend a email client?
<snape>lime_: I recommend mu4e
<janneke>lime_: yeah, identifying as windows is considered to be a feature
<lime_>I'm more of a vim kind of guy, snape
<snape>lime_: then you may use mutt.
<snape>(lime_, actually, I use mu4e with vim)
<lime_>my only issue with it is web metrics, it skews the number of people not using windows on the web
<lime_>but personally, I'd rather a browser identifying as a nuclear power plant by default
<efraim>i like mutt
<lime_>I have quite a lot of email accounts
<lime_>will mutt, configure well
<jmd>lime_: Mutt is highly configurable
<snape>how can I laod a service from an external file?
<snape>I tried to use "herd load shepherd file.scm" but I get "no code for module (gnu)"
<jmd>snape: First you start shepherd. Then you can start services.
<jmd>If you're running GuixSD, shepherd (and a many services) should already be started.
<snape>jmd: shepherd is started, and I'm running GuixSD.
<jmd>then if you type "herd status" you can see what services are running.
<snape>I can see them. But I cannot see the service I'm trying to load from an external file
<snape>with the "herd load shepherd file.scm" command
<snape>which seems normal because there is an error anyway
<snape>when I enter the command
<jmd>So far as I'm aware there is no "load" action to herd.
<snape>then we should remove it from the code, and from the doc
<jmd>I don't see it in the documentation. Where is that?
<snape>at the end
<snape>info shepherd
<snape>search "herd load"
<jmd>snape: I dunno then. I've never tried tht.
<snape>no problem jmd, thank you
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<efraim>sneek! come back!
<roelj>How long does it take to generate a key pair for `guix publish'? I've put my server on maximum load, but it's already taking more than 30 minutes for the key pair to be generated..
<efraim>I think you need guix archive --generate-key
<roelj>efraim: Yes, that is the command I'm running, but it's taking more than half an hour!
<roelj>Is that normal?
<roelj>Or how can I generate entropy on this device?
<roelj>Building guile-next does not seem to be enough ;)
<Zer0Pings>You can get entropy from a RNG
<Zer0Pings>There was a pluggable RNG, I forgot its name
<roelj>Well, I kind of like to have this up and running in 4 hours, so I can demo it..
<roelj>Oh, by the way, I am running this in a VM..
<roelj>Can I just generate it another way and copy it over?
<efraim>roelj: was afk. probably
<efraim>in my /etc/guix/ i have signingkey.{sec,pub}
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<ng0>where would we keep -I/lib/modules/`uname -r`/build/include ? I can't find it. the build folder in linux-libre $out leads just to some place on /tmp
<ng0>I have this software I want as an requirement for my live-systems, and it can't find this folder.
<ng0>though i think i remember this is for third party inserts.
<ng0>and what I just want is: -test -e sdel-mod.o && cp -f sdel-mod.o /lib/modules/4.7.4-gnu/kernel/drivers/char .. so i know where char is, i already had this. and we should have at least some software which does kernel modules so I can look at it.
<ng0>our kernel name never includes the arch in the folder name, it's constantly 'version'-gnu on all platforms?
<ng0>the linux kernel i mean.
<ng0>doesn't look like we have an applicaton like this so far. fun.
<quigonjinn>I want to package some software that contains a non-free submodule which can be disabled with a configure flag. Also, it has non-free documentation which will not be installed. Would that be acceptable in guix?
<ng0>what's problematic about the docs?
<rekado>quigonjinn: the submodule would have to be deleted in a snippet.
<quigonjinn>ng0: there is permission to use modify and distribute the docs only for non-profit use
<quigonjinn>rekado: there need to be some additional changes to the makefiles for this to be done (the submodule being deleted when building), but i could try to see if I can make it work
<ng0>but we are allowed to exclude the documentation?
<ng0>i mean does the package state something like that?
<quigonjinn>ng0: There is no such clause in the documentation license
<quigonjinn>ng0: to be specific, this package is ngspice. I want this to be integrated with qucs as a gui, which already provides some documentation for using ngspice as the simulation backend.
<quigonjinn>anyway, i should read the licenses in more detail, to make i have not missed anything
<ng0>so gentoo builds it without the kernel module.. but that's not enough for me. well, it's a start but I have to read into TAILS specs again.
<paroneayea>hello, *
<ng0> /me has packaged autoconf-2.13. party like it's 1999!
<ng0>why, palemoon, why...
<df_>is it standard policy to skip test suites in package build definitions?
<ng0>if there is no good reason, no
<ng0>I mean, usually we let the tests run.
<df_>ok, thanks
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<quigonjinn>are there any examples of adding duplicate gnu-build-system phases? For example, adding the configure phase again after make , and a make phase after that.
<ng0>that's strange. well you could use 'system*', where example are in many file
<ng0>(zero? (system* "make" "some" "more" "arguments"))
<bavier>quigonjinn: no examples that I know of, but you could do (add-after 'make 'second-configure (assoc-ref %standard-phases 'configure))
<quigonjinn>bavier: would that phase use the same flags, defined in #:configure-flags?
<bavier>quigonjinn: yes
<quigonjinn>i'll probably try with system* then, because the flags should change
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<ng0>sneek, later tell amz3: secushare server is back online, and so is the psyced chat server. in case you want to get more info and chat with some of the devs about your ideas.
<ng0>sneek: later tell amz3: secushare server is back online, and so is the psyced chat server. in case you want to get more info and chat with some of the devs about your ideas.
<ng0>so sneek is not around.
<sankey>for good or for bad, i use an ansible role to install guix onto debian servers
<sankey>i'm curious if there's a programmatic way of determining that a `guix package -i <package>` changed state
<sankey>e.g. inspecting return code, stdout, etc.
<sankey>knowing of a command changes state is very important for constructing ansible tasks
<sankey>knowing if*
<efraim>guix package -I (big i) will list installed programs
<efraim>you could check the hash of the program you're looking for
<efraim>or a cron job of `guix pull && guix package --fallback -u'
<sankey>hm, i could just check that no new profile generation has been created
<sankey>guix package --list-generations | grep current
<sankey>check if that changes
<rekado>hey guix, we still have a lot of failing builds. I've fixed and disabled a few today, but there are still a lot left.
<rekado>pity that we can't get gcj running on armhf and mips.
<rekado>it just doesn't produce proper binaries.
<rekado>upstream is unwilling/unable to help
<rekado>would anyone like to take a look at xmlstarlet? Builds on all platforms are failing.
<rekado>a few others are waiting for patches that are only in core-updates (e.g. weston)
<adfeno>Hi, when installing GNUnet using Guix on a non-GuixSD system, which place shoud be the home of the "gnunet" user?
<ng0>ideally the one defined in the service which is waiting for testuing but someone should reply to me how the tests can succeed.
<ng0>oh non guixsd
<ng0>could be anywhere.. /var/lib/gnunet is what I define on gentoo.
<ng0>take a look at the gentoo ebuild and its openrc file if you want some point of orientation.
<adfeno>Does GNUnet need a service (software) to allow use of the network?
<ng0>i never tried gnunet from guix on a non guixsd system. only what I package on (gentoo, guixsd)
<ng0>there's gnunet-arm
<ng0>this is simply what the service uses.
<ng0>gnunet-arm --help
<ng0>one second.
<ng0>our cgit is new, so here's gpo:
<JamesRichardson>Anyone use gnome desktop w/ guixsd? Just built a laptop. The usual logoff/switch user options aren't there. Perhaps it's missing something in my build. Perhaps user management semantics for guix just don't work so well with gnome??
<janneke>JamesRichardson: those are missing for me too.
<adfeno>JamesRichardson: I have seen someone talkign about this too.
<ng0>adfeno: if you make it work and find some quirks and odd features to make it work, can you mail them to our (gnunet-dev) mailinglist?
<adfeno>ng0: I'll.
<janneke>i guess gnome needs to learn about declarative configuration
<adfeno>ng0 It's the third time I'm trying this, actually.
<ng0>James: same here.
<ng0>theoretically, leaving aside that 0.10.1 will not be compatible to HEAD: guix package -i gnunet gnunet-gtk; create gnunet user+group, create gnunetdns group; su gnunet; gnunet-arm -s; switch to normal user, do your normal gnunet stuff.
<JamesRichardson>I don't normally use gnome, this is my wife's laptop ;) Don't really now how often she used the logoff feature. Hopefully someone will work on this at some point.
<adfeno>I remember that someone experimented with some GNOME item, and got the shutdown dialog to appear (not the button).
<ng0>you should be able to adjuts that in the systemd service or openrc or runscript or whatever your distro uses.
<ng0>if not, tell me what you're using and i'll see if I have the possibility to look into it.
<ng0>I can only look into guix on gentoo so far which is using openrc.
<adfeno>Hi xieyuheng :)
<xieyuheng>going to try guix again :)
<adfeno>ng0: Which version of the build should I look/read?
<adfeno>ng0: 0.10.0, or 999?
<ng0>you use something gentoo based?
<adfeno>I use Trisquel.
<adfeno>It uses upstart.
<ng0>they are all similar. one file which is symlinked to version names
<ng0>gnunet bundles an upstart service file iirc
<janneke>ng0: just reading your email about vms accessing internet; weird how my recipe does not work for you?
<ng0>have you looked at the config.scm I appended?
<ng0>configs i mena
<janneke>looked, but not tried them
<janneke>ACTION digs into mail
<janneke>i just tried my favourite vm and asserted ping and git clone worked
<janneke>ng0: looking again at your vm descriptions...i do not understand, how do you get into them? they don't provide an ssh server?
<ng0>that's the point. i do not want them like this, i just need a quick vm with which I can start gnunet-service etc and test if it works. it has to phone WORLD.
<janneke>ah, okay.
<ng0>i just watch the graphical output.
<janneke>hmm :-)
<ng0>can you send me an vm description of yours so i could adjust mine?
<roptat>when I connect through ssh, I get "sshd[318]: lastlog_openseek: Couldn't stat /var/log/lastlog: No such file or directory" in /var/log/messages
<ng0>maybe I can test that git-daemon with the new vm then
<roptat>hi by the way --'
<roptat>is it because the file is missing, or is something else supposed to log this kind of message?
<adfeno>I'm back :)
<lfam>ACTION tests OpenSSL updates
<ng0>ludovic: thanks, just saw the email about coredumps.
<xieyuheng>which nick is ludovis >_<
<ng0>eh right.. civodul^
<lfam>A bug fix which included a CRL sanity check was added to OpenSSL 1.1.0 but was omitted from OpenSSL 1.0.2i. As a result any attempt to use CRLs in OpenSSL 1.0.2i will crash with a null pointer exception.
<xieyuheng>civodul ....
<lfam>xieyuheng: civodul is not here right now
<xieyuheng>ok then >_<
<lfam>xieyuheng: You can use the sneek bot to send a message to civodul when he returns. Try "sneek: help". You can also just send him an email
<adfeno>Or you can use MemoServ. :)
<Petter>sneek's not here either :/
<adfeno> /msg MemoServ send civodul "Testing..."
<adfeno>Remove the double quotes.
<lfam>I guess sneek is on vacation
<lfam>I'll eat the botsnacks then
<xieyuheng>civodul must not back france yet
<Petter>lfam: botsnack
<adfeno>ng0: How do I disable IPv6 in gnunet.conf?
<janneke>ng0: it takes a bit more time...turns out my rottlog-test-vm connects fine to internet, my stripped one does not
<ng0>one moment, adfeno.
<adfeno>gnunet-arm started successfully, but complained about no IPv6.
<ng0>if it just complains and actually works, it's okay i think. otherwise you have a full overview of defaults in the doc directory of gnunet, I don't know where it is out of my head. share/doc/gnunet/conf.d for gnunet I think.
<adfeno>Hm... OK :)
<adfeno>Oh, after some seconds, I received this message:
<adfeno>WARNING External protocol violation detected at plugin_transport_tcp.c:2048
<xieyuheng>do we have any mirror in china now ?
<ng0>janneke: ok
<ng0>mirror of
<xieyuheng>oh? mirror of is also mirror for guix ?
<ng0>oh, you mean hydra..?
<xieyuheng>hydra ?
<ng0>just mirror is a bit vague. do you mean a mirror for providing substitutes which hydra builds?
<lfam>OpenSSL updates sent to guix-devel; please review
<ng0>I know servers and bandwidth in china are expensive, i would be positive surprised if we get a mirror there.
<lfam>ng0, xieyuheng: It's very easy to run a mirror of You can clone our Git repo maintenance.git and adapt the file 'hydra/nginx/mirror.conf':
<lfam>Run an nginx server with that configuration file and you have your own substitutes mirror.
<ng0>I did not say it's impossible, just that when I was looking for servers worldwide when I was involved in opennic I found out that prices in some regions are differing very much.
<adfeno>ng0: OK, disabled now. Still got the warnings, but that strange message about "plugin_transport_tcp.c:2048" file didn't come up yet.
<lfam>ng0: Yes, I was just pointing that it's easy to set up. Of course the price depends on the use case
<janneke>ng0: some weirdness going on...recipe emailed...
<ng0>ok, thanks. I'll follow up later, I do some gnunet debugging now.
<adfeno>ng0: For some reason, when I do "" as normal user, It makes my terminal busy.
<lfam>I've been waiting for this release. There are so many bug fixes that I didn't feel confident cherry-picking them all.
<adfeno>Yesterday I installed VLC and IceCat from Guix, so proud. :)
<adfeno>lfam: Reminds me of that discussion on "schedules" vs "deadlines".
<lfam>Yeah, deadlines are a pipe dream. It's done when it's done.
<lfam>This particular set of bug fixes has been on my mind for a while now...
<adfeno>Personally, I like schedules, but I hate deadlines.
<lfam>Can you point me to the discussion? Sounds interesting
<adfeno>lfam: It was some days ago.
<adfeno>Here in #guix;
<lfam>BTW adfeno:
<adfeno>I don't know exactly which day it was.
<adfeno>lfam: OK, I'm going to install Epiphany then. :)
<lfam>adfeno: See <> and also the 2016-09 archives for progress updates
<adfeno>Oh boy, after I built GNOME stuff and Python 3.4, installation of things using Guix became so quick :)
<lfam>Did you have to build python? No substitute?
<adfeno>No substitute. The download of the substitute was always failing.
<adfeno>The download indeed started, but always ended up failing.
<lfam>Hm, do you remember the error message?
<adfeno>lfam, a hash mismatch, if I remember correctly.
<adfeno>I can do `guix gc` and try downloading python 3.4 again.
<lfam>adfeno: A hash mismatch in a module-import?
<lfam>No, don't do that :) That's expensive
<adfeno>OK :)
<lfam>I guess I will just wait for another complaint to see if it's a "real" issue
<adfeno>I don't have Python 3 in the store (of course, because I already have it from Trisquel, and some system software require it).
<adfeno>What I could do is export/archive the current substittute I have to a file and then reuse it when the test is over.
<lfam>Okay, if you want to do that, it would be helpful :)
<adfeno>Although I don't have software capable of telling me what is inside the .nar file. That is I don't know if such .nar file has the substitute ready for use, or if it has the source files only.
<adfeno>Well... I guess I'll have t find it out the traditional way, doing it.
<lfam>You could do `guix archive --export --recursive python > ~/tmp/python.nar`. I think that should work.
<lfam>Assuming you got this Python from `guix` and not `./pre-inst-env guix` or something like that
<adfeno>lfam: Well, I got it when trying to install IceCat.
<adfeno>If I recall correctly.
<lfam>As long as you haven't done `guix pull` since then, then it should work as expected
<adfeno>I don't have it installed in my profile, so it must be somewhere where guix can find it, since I just did a .nar archive without having to build anything.
<adfeno>Quite lightweight, 1,5 MB
<adfeno>Actually... s/MB/MiB/
<adfeno>What depends on Python 3...
<lfam>`guix refresh -l python`
<adfeno>I guess I'll pick python-setuptools
<adfeno>Also, now I'll do guix pull, just to get updates.
<lfam>adfeno: Don't do that
<adfeno>Oh, ok
<lfam>You could just build do `guix build python`
<lfam>You should download the python substitute from Hydra
<lfam>If not, something is wrong
<adfeno>Let's see.
<lfam>After you test that, then feel free to `guix pull`
<adfeno>lfam: Got this error:
<adfeno> 1.7MiB/s 00:08 | 13.7MiB transferred
<adfeno>@ substituter-failed /gnu/store/pyp3r19n6cqcc7vhlvd3n6b6jvqla57q-python-3.4.3 0 hash mismatch in downloaded path `/gnu/store/pyp3r19n6cqcc7vhlvd3n6b6jvqla57q-python-3.4.3': expected 60eb610db1948729ace3a81e7ea387848738d13a2b092d26d9fca950bb0b48fb, got d0c5d9d61e9a7feecc9ea4df64365e857ce0c724fcd89578509f168f57b49dd5
<lfam>Okay, something is not right :/
<adfeno>As I said: The download happens, but stops when 13,7 MiB is reached.
<adfeno>This also happens if I try to build other things, but in those cases it happens with module-import-compiled package.
<lfam>I'm going to notify our sysadmins. Feel free to `guix pull` and continue doing what you were doing
<lfam>adfeno: Could you try `guix build python --substitute-urls=` if you have not finished `guix pull` yet?
<lfam>That will bypass the mirror
<adfeno>OK, I'll.
<adfeno>lfam: Indeed, that bypassed the errors.
<lfam>Okay, the mirror has a corrupt file. We will remove it
<lfam>Thanks for helping debug it
<adfeno>the substitutes were downloaded.
<adfeno>lfam: No problem :)
<adfeno>Shouild I try importing the Python.nar file I saved previously?
<adfeno>Or is it better to just remove it?
<lfam>adfeno: It shouldn't make a difference either way
<ng0>back. was there something intended for me to read recently?
<lfam>I don't think so, ng0
<adfeno>ng0: Welcome back
<adfeno>Now, to do guix pull. :)
<adfeno>ng0: Which feature of GNUnet I can use to test if it's working or not?
<adfeno>It seems that gnunet-statistics isn't working.
<adfeno>while gnunet-arm -I says it's running.
<alezost>quigonjinn: I use shepherd for my user services (previously I also used systemd for this), do you have any problems with it?
<adfeno>I'll try rebooting.
<adfeno>I'll be right back.
<ng0>no idea at the moment, better report at bugtracker, mailinglist or here in #gnunet.
<ng0>you can try gnunet eh.... one moment
<quigonjinn>is there a way to force a build to fail before/after a specific phase
<jmd>I'm sure that somebody must have written a script to convert ini style files to scheme and vici-versa but I can't find anything.
<ng0>gnunet-search --verbose avi
<ng0>adfeno: gnunet-search --verbose avi
<ng0>otherwise: no idea at the moment, better report at bugtracker, mailinglist or here in #gnunet.
<ng0>also, give gnunet some time to build connections etc
<ng0>additionally, keep in mind 0.10.1 is terribly old.
<adfeno>Got one...
<ng0>almost everyone who isn't on some distro forced version is running HEAD or whatever version I pointed gentoo 0.10.1_* to
<quigonjinn>alezost: i got it to work, invoking shepherd as a user from .bash_profile. Do you have any alternative?
<adfeno>(Whatever it is)... ""King of the Hill_.gnd""
<ng0>so the part of the network which has 0.10.1 has some size, but it HEAD is incompatible to 0.10.1 as hash format etc changed.
<alezost>quigonjinn: I also run shepherd from .bash_profile :-)
<adfeno>Side-topic: One thing that got me lost during installation of Guix was to which profile file I should source the one from .guix-profile.
<adfeno>I first tried .bashrc
<ng0>time for 0.10.2 release.. well, i hope it'll happen at the end of the stretched summer (after all it's still very warm outside ;D). christian is a bit perfectionist on releases i think.. that's why the release time is so long.
<ng0>have to work on this core dump thing. glad to be of any help to you.
<adfeno>... then noticed that applications running in terminal would pick the right locale, while those run, say, from .desktop files wouldn't (and so would default to English).
<adfeno>One thing that I would like to see in GNUnet is mutable files or directories.
<ng0>easy solution, which I recommend to every in here: get hacking on it.
<adfeno>Will try to. :)
<adfeno>I have been attracted to Guix and GuixSD for quite some time thanks for the talks and texts about it.
<adfeno>But I only recently got involved into making package recipes to it thanks to an unfortunate situation: I tried installing Tahoe-LAFS (which supports mutable files) in my copy of Trisquel, but failed.
<adfeno>So since then (around 1m[onth] ago), I'm trying to make a recipe for Tahoe-LAFS.
<adfeno>But I guess I'll stick to GNUnet instead.
<ng0>well as long as you keep going it can still be finished :)
<ng0>I've spent about 1 year on all gnunet releated packages for gentoo
<ng0>reading into gnunet and it's -fs and papers and code could be good though.
<adfeno>ng0: Yep, I did most of the work on it, around 30% is done. Now, things started to get hairy due to failed tests, failed builds, and some dependencies asking for a copy of git in order to get version information about themselves (???).
<bavier>I wonder if this would be an interesting starting point for a guix chromium package:
<ng0>bavier: do you want my very very wip of inox?
<bavier>ng0: :), no, I'll let others go down that road
<ng0>it involves hate and screaming. it's a brave quest...
<sankey>adfeno: if you have any sort of wiki page or ticket tracking your progress on packaging tahoe-lafs for guix, i'm interested
<sankey>i've gotten so far as creating a list of missing dependencies, but it seems you are further
<adfeno>sankey: I don't have wiki, but all my findings are documented in the recipe itself
<ng0>you can cheat the version lookups via git.
<adfeno>ng0: I managed to cheat those by forcing the variable which holds the version....
<lfam>Can somebody review my OpenSSL security update patches? I think it should be enough to verify that I've used the correct hash (check the upstream PGP sigs) and that the packages build
<adfeno>... Although I didn't check if this would result in catastrofic effects, since of course, I'm not a programmer. :)
<adfeno>ACTION falls of the chair laughting.
<ng0>bavier: how is this different from inox and iridium? can you give a summary if possible?
<adfeno>sankey: So, back on topic...
<adfeno>... I guess I'll send the recipe to guix-devel mailing list.
<adfeno>sankey: Are you subscribed to guix-devel?
<sankey>adfeno: yes!
<bavier>ng0: disables more background google services, disables use of more pre-built and downloaded binaries during the build, strips binaries from source tarball, disables google-domain-specific functionality, and some other things
<adfeno>sankey: OK, I'll send it there.
<ng0>okay, i look into it. but I fear one has still to build the core, chromium ;D
<ng0>and that is a rabbit hole whic hgoes deeeeeep
<adfeno>I think I'd better set non-substitutable (sorry, non-native English speaker) variable.
<ng0>so far i have identified all dependencies, written a scratch of inox patches, and started something to unbundle, but i decided that palemoon is easier to fix up as I have packaged it before. chromium is a thing I work on every now and then.
<ng0>as it doesn't even build i have not pushed it.
<adfeno>Also, for those interested, I made a simple script to travers through source code looking for possible references to paths, and also for configuration variables.
<adfeno>Wow! Epiphany's UI is somewhat corrupted...
<adfeno>Lots of icons missing.
<lfam>adfeno: Can you send a bug report to
<adfeno>Let's see if I can find what happened.
<adfeno>lfam: I'll :)
<lfam>ng0: Is there an HTTPS darcs repo that I can test darcs with?
<ng0>as i wrote, there is no https in darcs.
<ng0>*as I've written
<adfeno>sankey: I looked more into Tahoe-LAFS dependencies...
<adfeno>... And I'm now worried with a possible license issue.
<ng0>you can try and look at whereever pijul was located. pijul on their own web site state a wrong https url.
<lfam>ng0: I think that I have to set the DARCS_GET_HTTPS environment variable. Is that incorrect?
<ng0>incorrect, yes.
<lfam>Okay, then I think we can remove the comment about this subject from the top of your patch. What do you think?
<ng0>read the comments and links I've provided. you only pass an application like curl to DARCS_GET_HTTP
<ng0>https get does not exist per their own documentation.
<lfam>Shouldn't "DARCS_GET_HTTP=curl" work? Assuming that curl is properly configured
<ng0>but what if someone else tries to find this information? shouldn't we keep it? it was not easy to find.
<ng0>yes, but only for http. not for https.
<adfeno>sankey: I think I'll contact the project in question (not Tahoe-LAFS) and ask for clarification on what they did.
<ng0>and if you leave this variable off, it just works.
<sankey>adfeno: which project?
<adfeno>sankey: zbase32
<sankey>hm, this one?
<ng0>oh. okay seems like you get more information zthan i did in #darcs, lfam.
<adfeno>sankey: Yep.
<adfeno>ng0: I'll keep the recipe on hold for now and try to contact upstream to see which license they really intended to use.
<sankey>adfeno: great, thanks
<sankey>so it's just a license mismatch between the pypi package and what the code claims?
<adfeno>Not exactly.
<adfeno>It's just that zbase32 is an indirect dependency for Tahoe-LAFS.
<adfeno>But zbase32 is under "BSD license", and Tahoe-LAFS is under both GNU GPL 2 "orl ater" and "Transitive Grace Period Public License" 1 "or later".
<sankey>FWIW, zooko is one of the core tahoe-lafs devs
<sankey>adfeno: ^
<adfeno>sankey: Indeed...
<adfeno>What puzzles me is that, the project VCS lives at <> (notice diferent name).
<adfeno>And that VCS has a LICENSE file, and a different license.
<adfeno>Sorry: s/VCS/repository/
<sankey>the pypi package "home page" just gives me a dead link
<sankey>so i'm not sure how you connected the two
<adfeno>sankey: Yep.
<ng0>pypi is sometimes faded out,just like cpan etc..
<adfeno>Because it has the same "DESIGN" file
<adfeno>... and same README
<adfeno>I'd better report the bug involving Epiphany first and last, it's almost college time.
<rekado>bavier: I was wondering the same but then remembered that one needs a stable and reliable upstream for a browser.
<bavier>rekado: true. we don't know how reliable the ungoogle source is yet
<rekado>on the other hand I’m a little unhappy with Epiphany and Icecat at the moment.
<lfam>What's wrong with epiphany?
<bavier>I'm annoyed that I can't use sandstorm from epiphany...
<ng0>for me palemoon works.. it's not up to date, but I expect it to finish soon and serve as a base for me to work on other browsers.
<rekado>Epiphany sometimes (but regularly) eats up all memory for no known reason, which leads to thrashing and a forced computing break for me.
<rekado>it happens really quickly too
<lfam>That sounds pretty bad
<rekado>I open one tab and within 30 secs the mouse lags and then I know I’m doomed.
<rekado>it also crashed three times today.
<lfam>Hm, that also sounds pretty bad :/
<lfam>God only knows why it's crashing.
<rekado>each time it coincided with me closing one of four simple tabs.
<lfam>To use an English idiom
<ng0>you discovered the secret doom mode. after all, 'does it run doom?'
<rekado>looking at the roadmap I also see that many planned tasks were not even started.
<ng0>but it's bad :/
<rekado>then there’s the lack of extensions, such as adblock.
<lfam>The browser situation is really bad overall
<rekado>I actually started hacking on xwidget support in Emacs.
<rekado>have a patch set to use the WebKit2 API.
<lfam>I think that if Guix hackers are willing to package a chromium-derived browser, and unwilling to contribute to icecat or epiphany, they should do the chromium package
<ng0>i want at least one browser which supports the format of taler browserextension, and with the slow pace of icecat i don't want icecat at the moment.
<lfam>Motivation is not fungible
<rekado>I’d like to contribute to epiphany, actually,
<rekado>but the lack of a roadmap for extensions really hurt my motivation.
<ng0>well... s/want/need/
<lfam>Well, I'm just saying, if someone is motivated to add a chromium, we should not block them just because the other browsers are relatively unmaintained
<rekado>they used to have extensions, but now they don’t.
<brendyn>Is it difficult to package Iceweasel?
<rekado>lfam: true
<lfam>Iceweasel is actually just Firefox now, if I understand correctly
<lfam>Or maybe I have it backwards
<lfam>They are allowed to call their fork "Firefox"
<brendyn>Parabola still has an Iceweasel
<lfam>Right, I'm on Debian so that's my lens
<ng0>i sorta kinda do chromium, but for my own sanity I'd be willing to throw the progress in whoever's willing to package it direction...
<ng0>chromium and inox.
<brendyn>We aren't in the Mozilla-Debian Love circle over here at Parabola :/
<ng0>it's a normal package until you start unbundling xD
<lfam>I think we desperately need a web browser that gets security updates quickly
<ng0>so looking at my current priority and todo list I am the wrong person working on a 'we need it noaaaw' browser
<adfeno>I'm quite worried with the issue on Firefox and Debian, so I avoid recommending Firefox for the time being.
<ng0>if anyone wants the progress, I shall post the inox.scm tomorrow morning to the list.
<lfam>And if Epiphany is crashing all the time, there are probably exploitable bugs
<adfeno>lfam: About Epiphany: For me, the icons are missing.
<lfam>adfeno: What are you worried about?
<lfam>ng0: Thanks
<adfeno>lfam: I mean, there's little consensus as to whether Firefox is free or not, even if comming from Debian.
<lfam>Oh, I thought you meant the name change
<lfam>Yeah, that's an issue too
<adfeno>While, in the case of IceCat, there is for sure to be free.
<ng0>if someone wants desperately to start in some hours on inox (chromium), I can send it earlier. kinda busy right now
<ng0>you won't finish it in some hours though ;D
<lfam>ng0: I'm not going to start on it soon, regardless of when you post it. No rush for me
<adfeno>Also another one that I'm in the middle of the fence is Chromium. I instead recommend Iridium for the general public instead.
<lfam>I want free software and I want secure software.
<ng0>inox is similar to iridium.
<lfam>I don't know a browser I can use today that satisfies both
<lfam>Actually, I don't even know a secure browser.
<ng0>i can't trust a browser which is as bloated as chromium anyway. so we *have* to unbundle as much as possible.
<rekado>lfam: have you tried “eww”?
<rekado>I’m only half kidding
<brendyn>I'd rather just support a versiom of Firefox. I think it's too self defeating to boycott every last browser.
<adfeno>Yep, but supporting Firefox itself is rather complex.
<rekado>brendyn: this is not about boycotting Firefox
<ng0>palemoon is what gets my attention currently. but that's just me and my long wip list.
<lfam>I haven't tried eww, I will check it out. Thanks for the recommendation
<lfam>Well, I personally don't boycott Debian's Firefox or Chromium.
<rekado>we *have* the Firefox derivative IceCat, but there are not enough developers to make timely releases.
<lfam>Yes, it's a bad situation
<ng0>they are postponiung releases in discussions about extensions is my impression..
<adfeno>I'm sorry, but I must go.
<ng0>nothing I'd like to step into.
<rekado>lfam: eww is a text browser inside of Emacs. It’s lacking tons of features. It’s free software and probably secure by virtue of doing hardly anything.
<lfam>I've seen how some of the more obscure browsers silently fail to validate TLS, so I'm wary of them
<lfam>Especially since HTTP mutation is not some obscure attack but standard procedure for ISPs here in the US
<ng0>epiphany and icecat started to fial certificates for me.. new epiphany no longer.
<ng0>best for the time being would probably be torbrowser.. they are moving at a speed which is good enough and address fixes fast enough
<lfam>True, good recommendation
<lfam>I wonder if I could get that to run on GuixSD
<ng0>it would not be official tor browser, so we have to warn about this, like our gentoo package for it.
<lfam>Not as a package
<lfam>Right, I just mean downloading the binary from Tor
<lfam>For my personal use
<ng0>probably not.
<lfam>I might be able to hack up some container that puts everything it needs in /usr
<ng0>nix packages it, i've tried to run the binary once.
<ng0>but anything which works..
<ng0>unbundling chromium makes me sad. it's like trying to cuddle darth vader. it works, but it hurts and is very complex.
<lfam>Honestly, this isn't a priority for me. Debian's packaging is good enough and I have other priorities. But I would donate money to IceCat if that would help the project stay in sync with upstream.
<lfam>Lol ng0, great metaphor
<ng0>you start to believe google programmers are like pokemon trainers. gotta bundle them all :/
<ng0>how many modules do we have in gnu/packages? 200? inox.scm imports 60. for 1 package.
<lfam>354 package modules
<rekado>I just went to to see if eww complains about the invalid certs on the example pages: it does.
<lfam>That's good!
<roptat>I'm trying to improve the nginx service, and I added support for vhost configuration in the global configuration file (guix system reconfigure)
<roptat>when I try to reconfigure the system, the service is still running on the old configuration file
<roptat>I don't really know what to look for
<lfam>roptat: Did you try `herd restart nginx`?
<roptat>it still loads nginx with the old configuration file
<lfam>Sounds like a bug to me