<lime_>anyone know any chips I can replace my wifi in my thinkpad with freesoftware ones so it works <OriansJ>well lime_ TPE-N150USB is RYF certified and usb if that is acceptable <lime_>well there's only two usb ports but I guess <ng0>so i am packaging an autoconf version from '99 because some lazy devs still use it... oO <ZombieChicken>I'm wanting to try it out on my desktop, but I'd rather not have anything installed as root <Nyxus>random question! Does linux lack the same technical excellence that bsd aspires to? <ijp>have you stopped beating your wife? <ZombieChicken>Nyxus: Define "technical excellence". And understand that the BSDs are more of a whole than Linux and it's userland is, so things aren't quite as put together as they probably are in BSD-land <hugo_dc>is it possible to program in Java/Clojure using GuixSD? <taylan>hugo_dc: OpenJDK is packaged. don't know about clojure things. <taylan>right, but might be a pain if not packaged by guix, I thought <taylan>the openjdk package is icedtea BTW <ijp>taylan: the question struck me as loaded, so I responded with another <taylan>ijp: oh, well, that was confusing <ZombieChicken>Nyxus: Both have out-of-date filesystem designs, the kernels (other than /maybe/ NetBSDs) are kind of crappy, and basically it's all still 80's tech <ijp>ZombieChicken: that is possible, but at least in this instance, I'd say my assessment was born out <Nyxus>ZombieChicken: Thanks for the reply! <Nyxus>The only reason I asked is because I've just seen an epic rant from a BSD guy dumping on GNU/Linux. <adfeno>Hi, I'm using Guix in Trisquel, how can I make sure that the system sees libraries at that are in the store? <adfeno>I guess I'll just creat a symlink from the specific library I need that is in my profile, to the "/lib" directory. <quigonjinn>adfeno: you need to export the appropriate environment variables <adfeno>I guess I must have overlooked something in the Guix installation, or it wasn't mentioned. <quigonjinn>when you install the packages, guix should tell you which ones <adfeno>I only saw the one about locale setting. <quigonjinn>something like: export LIBRARY_PATH="$HOME/.guix-profile/lib:$LIBRARY_PATH" <quigonjinn>.guix_profile is the appropriate file to export from, if i'm not mistaken <adfeno>".guix_profile" or ".guix-profile"? <quigonjinn>adfeno: if guix is installed correctly, the directory ".guix-profile" should exist in your home dir <adfeno>I was just wondering if applications would be able to see those libraries there. <adfeno>I think I'll make a Guix publisher available <adfeno> I just have to find a DNS service provider. <Fare>how usable is guix these days? <Fare>is there someone with experience in both guix and nix who can contrast the experiences? <Hermit>I've tried guix, but was too busy to figure out how to make it work the way I need. (luks (lvm / swap /home ...)) <Hermit>so I just postponed it, still using nixos <ZombieChicken>Fare: As the website states, it isn't production ready. If you want to try it out, I suggest starting with a virtual machine ***bmpvieira_ is now known as bmpvieira
***Digitteknohippie is now known as Digit
<lime_>why is my icecat session appearing as windows <lime_>and can anyone recommend a email client? <janneke>lime_: yeah, identifying as windows is considered to be a feature <lime_>I'm more of a vim kind of guy, snape <snape>lime_: then you may use mutt. <snape>(lime_, actually, I use mu4e with vim) <lime_>my only issue with it is web metrics, it skews the number of people not using windows on the web <lime_>but personally, I'd rather a browser identifying as a nuclear power plant by default <lime_>I have quite a lot of email accounts <jmd>lime_: Mutt is highly configurable <snape>how can I laod a service from an external file? <snape>I tried to use "herd load shepherd file.scm" but I get "no code for module (gnu)" <jmd>snape: First you start shepherd. Then you can start services. <jmd>If you're running GuixSD, shepherd (and a many services) should already be started. <snape>jmd: shepherd is started, and I'm running GuixSD. <jmd>then if you type "herd status" you can see what services are running. <snape>I can see them. But I cannot see the service I'm trying to load from an external file <snape>with the "herd load shepherd file.scm" command <snape>which seems normal because there is an error anyway <jmd>So far as I'm aware there is no "load" action to herd. <snape>then we should remove it from the code, and from the doc <jmd>I don't see it in the documentation. Where is that? <jmd>snape: I dunno then. I've never tried tht. ***[0xAA] is now known as Zer0Pings
<roelj>How long does it take to generate a key pair for `guix publish'? I've put my server on maximum load, but it's already taking more than 30 minutes for the key pair to be generated.. <efraim>I think you need guix archive --generate-key <roelj>efraim: Yes, that is the command I'm running, but it's taking more than half an hour! <roelj>Or how can I generate entropy on this device? <roelj>Building guile-next does not seem to be enough ;) <Zer0Pings>There was a pluggable RNG, I forgot its name <roelj>Well, I kind of like to have this up and running in 4 hours, so I can demo it.. <roelj>Oh, by the way, I am running this in a VM.. <roelj>Can I just generate it another way and copy it over? <efraim>in my /etc/guix/ i have signingkey.{sec,pub} ***roptat_ is now known as roptat
<ng0>where would we keep -I/lib/modules/`uname -r`/build/include ? I can't find it. the build folder in linux-libre $out leads just to some place on /tmp <ng0>I have this software I want as an requirement for my live-systems, and it can't find this folder. <ng0>though i think i remember this is for third party inserts. <ng0>and what I just want is: -test -e sdel-mod.o && cp -f sdel-mod.o /lib/modules/4.7.4-gnu/kernel/drivers/char .. so i know where char is, i already had this. and we should have at least some software which does kernel modules so I can look at it. <ng0>our kernel name never includes the arch in the folder name, it's constantly 'version'-gnu on all platforms? <ng0>the linux kernel i mean. <ng0>doesn't look like we have an applicaton like this so far. fun. <quigonjinn>I want to package some software that contains a non-free submodule which can be disabled with a configure flag. Also, it has non-free documentation which will not be installed. Would that be acceptable in guix? <ng0>what's problematic about the docs? <rekado>quigonjinn: the submodule would have to be deleted in a snippet. <quigonjinn>ng0: there is permission to use modify and distribute the docs only for non-profit use <quigonjinn>rekado: there need to be some additional changes to the makefiles for this to be done (the submodule being deleted when building), but i could try to see if I can make it work <ng0>but we are allowed to exclude the documentation? <ng0>i mean does the package state something like that? <quigonjinn>ng0: There is no such clause in the documentation license <quigonjinn>ng0: to be specific, this package is ngspice. I want this to be integrated with qucs as a gui, which already provides some documentation for using ngspice as the simulation backend. <quigonjinn>anyway, i should read the licenses in more detail, to make i have not missed anything <ng0>so gentoo builds it without the kernel module.. but that's not enough for me. well, it's a start but I have to read into TAILS specs again. <ng0> /me has packaged autoconf-2.13. party like it's 1999! <ng0>why, palemoon, why... <df_>is it standard policy to skip test suites in package build definitions? <ng0>if there is no good reason, no <ng0>I mean, usually we let the tests run. ***Guest74674 is now known as mog
<quigonjinn>are there any examples of adding duplicate gnu-build-system phases? For example, adding the configure phase again after make , and a make phase after that. <ng0>that's strange. well you could use 'system*', where example are in many file <ng0>(zero? (system* "make" "some" "more" "arguments")) <bavier>quigonjinn: no examples that I know of, but you could do (add-after 'make 'second-configure (assoc-ref %standard-phases 'configure)) <quigonjinn>bavier: would that phase use the same flags, defined in #:configure-flags? <quigonjinn>i'll probably try with system* then, because the flags should change ***jackhill_ is now known as jackhill
<ng0>sneek, later tell amz3: secushare server is back online, and so is the psyced.org psyced chat server. in case you want to get more info and chat with some of the devs about your ideas. <ng0>sneek: later tell amz3: secushare server is back online, and so is the psyced.org psyced chat server. in case you want to get more info and chat with some of the devs about your ideas. <ng0>so sneek is not around. <sankey>for good or for bad, i use an ansible role to install guix onto debian servers <sankey>i'm curious if there's a programmatic way of determining that a `guix package -i <package>` changed state <sankey>e.g. inspecting return code, stdout, etc. <sankey>knowing of a command changes state is very important for constructing ansible tasks <efraim>guix package -I (big i) will list installed programs <efraim>you could check the hash of the program you're looking for <efraim>or a cron job of `guix pull && guix package --fallback -u' <sankey>hm, i could just check that no new profile generation has been created <sankey>guix package --list-generations | grep current <rekado>hey guix, we still have a lot of failing builds. I've fixed and disabled a few today, but there are still a lot left. <rekado>pity that we can't get gcj running on armhf and mips. <rekado>it just doesn't produce proper binaries. <rekado>upstream is unwilling/unable to help <rekado>would anyone like to take a look at xmlstarlet? Builds on all platforms are failing. <rekado>a few others are waiting for patches that are only in core-updates (e.g. weston) <adfeno>Hi, when installing GNUnet using Guix on a non-GuixSD system, which place shoud be the home of the "gnunet" user? <ng0>ideally the one defined in the service which is waiting for testuing but someone should reply to me how the tests can succeed. <ng0>could be anywhere.. /var/lib/gnunet is what I define on gentoo. <ng0>take a look at the gentoo ebuild and its openrc file if you want some point of orientation. <adfeno>Does GNUnet need a service (software) to allow use of the network? <ng0>i never tried gnunet from guix on a non guixsd system. only what I package on (gentoo, guixsd) <ng0>this is simply what the service uses. <JamesRichardson>Anyone use gnome desktop w/ guixsd? Just built a laptop. The usual logoff/switch user options aren't there. Perhaps it's missing something in my build. Perhaps user management semantics for guix just don't work so well with gnome?? <janneke>JamesRichardson: those are missing for me too. <adfeno>JamesRichardson: I have seen someone talkign about this too. <ng0>adfeno: if you make it work and find some quirks and odd features to make it work, can you mail them to our (gnunet-dev) mailinglist? <janneke>i guess gnome needs to learn about declarative configuration <adfeno>ng0 It's the third time I'm trying this, actually. <ng0>theoretically, leaving aside that 0.10.1 will not be compatible to HEAD: guix package -i gnunet gnunet-gtk; create gnunet user+group, create gnunetdns group; su gnunet; gnunet-arm -s; switch to normal user, do your normal gnunet stuff. <JamesRichardson>I don't normally use gnome, this is my wife's laptop ;) Don't really now how often she used the logoff feature. Hopefully someone will work on this at some point. <adfeno>I remember that someone experimented with some GNOME item, and got the shutdown dialog to appear (not the button). <ng0>you should be able to adjuts that in the systemd service or openrc or runscript or whatever your distro uses. <ng0>if not, tell me what you're using and i'll see if I have the possibility to look into it. <ng0>I can only look into guix on gentoo so far which is using openrc. <adfeno>ng0: Which version of the build should I look/read? <ng0>you use something gentoo based? <ng0>they are all similar. one file which is symlinked to version names <ng0>gnunet bundles an upstart service file iirc <janneke>ng0: just reading your email about vms accessing internet; weird how my recipe does not work for you? <ng0>have you looked at the config.scm I appended? <janneke>i just tried my favourite vm and asserted ping and git clone worked <janneke>ng0: looking again at your vm descriptions...i do not understand, how do you get into them? they don't provide an ssh server? <ng0>that's the point. i do not want them like this, i just need a quick vm with which I can start gnunet-service etc and test if it works. it has to phone WORLD. <ng0>i just watch the graphical output. <ng0>can you send me an vm description of yours so i could adjust mine? <roptat>when I connect through ssh, I get "sshd[318]: lastlog_openseek: Couldn't stat /var/log/lastlog: No such file or directory" in /var/log/messages <ng0>maybe I can test that git-daemon with the new vm then <roptat>is it because the file is missing, or is something else supposed to log this kind of message? <lfam>ACTION tests OpenSSL updates <ng0>ludovic: thanks, just saw the email about coredumps. <lfam>A bug fix which included a CRL sanity check was added to OpenSSL 1.1.0 but was omitted from OpenSSL 1.0.2i. As a result any attempt to use CRLs in OpenSSL 1.0.2i will crash with a null pointer exception. <lfam>xieyuheng: civodul is not here right now <lfam>xieyuheng: You can use the sneek bot to send a message to civodul when he returns. Try "sneek: help". You can also just send him an email <adfeno> /msg MemoServ send civodul "Testing..." <lfam>I guess sneek is on vacation <lfam>I'll eat the botsnacks then <adfeno>ng0: How do I disable IPv6 in gnunet.conf? <janneke>ng0: it takes a bit more time...turns out my rottlog-test-vm connects fine to internet, my stripped one does not <adfeno>gnunet-arm started successfully, but complained about no IPv6. <ng0>if it just complains and actually works, it's okay i think. otherwise you have a full overview of defaults in the doc directory of gnunet, I don't know where it is out of my head. share/doc/gnunet/conf.d for gnunet I think. <adfeno>Oh, after some seconds, I received this message: <adfeno>WARNING External protocol violation detected at plugin_transport_tcp.c:2048 <xieyuheng>oh? mirror of gnu.org is also mirror for guix ? <ng0>oh, you mean hydra..? <ng0>just mirror is a bit vague. do you mean a mirror for providing substitutes which hydra builds? <lfam>OpenSSL updates sent to guix-devel; please review <ng0>I know servers and bandwidth in china are expensive, i would be positive surprised if we get a mirror there. <lfam>Run an nginx server with that configuration file and you have your own substitutes mirror. <ng0>I did not say it's impossible, just that when I was looking for servers worldwide when I was involved in opennic I found out that prices in some regions are differing very much. <adfeno>ng0: OK, disabled now. Still got the warnings, but that strange message about "plugin_transport_tcp.c:2048" file didn't come up yet. <lfam>ng0: Yes, I was just pointing that it's easy to set up. Of course the price depends on the use case <janneke>ng0: some weirdness going on...recipe emailed... <ng0>ok, thanks. I'll follow up later, I do some gnunet debugging now. <adfeno>ng0: For some reason, when I do "gnunet-gns-import.sh" as normal user, It makes my terminal busy. <lfam>I've been waiting for this release. There are so many bug fixes that I didn't feel confident cherry-picking them all. <adfeno>Yesterday I installed VLC and IceCat from Guix, so proud. :) <adfeno>lfam: Reminds me of that discussion on "schedules" vs "deadlines". <lfam>Yeah, deadlines are a pipe dream. It's done when it's done. <lfam>This particular set of bug fixes has been on my mind for a while now... <adfeno>Personally, I like schedules, but I hate deadlines. <lfam>Can you point me to the discussion? Sounds interesting <adfeno>I don't know exactly which day it was. <adfeno>lfam: OK, I'm going to install Epiphany then. :) <adfeno>Oh boy, after I built GNOME stuff and Python 3.4, installation of things using Guix became so quick :) <lfam>Did you have to build python? No substitute? <adfeno>No substitute. The download of the substitute was always failing. <adfeno>The download indeed started, but always ended up failing. <lfam>Hm, do you remember the error message? <adfeno>lfam, a hash mismatch, if I remember correctly. <adfeno>I can do `guix gc` and try downloading python 3.4 again. <lfam>adfeno: A hash mismatch in a module-import? <lfam>No, don't do that :) That's expensive <lfam>I guess I will just wait for another complaint to see if it's a "real" issue <adfeno>I don't have Python 3 in the store (of course, because I already have it from Trisquel, and some system software require it). <adfeno>What I could do is export/archive the current substittute I have to a file and then reuse it when the test is over. <lfam>Okay, if you want to do that, it would be helpful :) <adfeno>Although I don't have software capable of telling me what is inside the .nar file. That is I don't know if such .nar file has the substitute ready for use, or if it has the source files only. <adfeno>Well... I guess I'll have t find it out the traditional way, doing it. <lfam>You could do `guix archive --export --recursive python > ~/tmp/python.nar`. I think that should work. <lfam>Assuming you got this Python from `guix` and not `./pre-inst-env guix` or something like that <adfeno>lfam: Well, I got it when trying to install IceCat. <lfam>As long as you haven't done `guix pull` since then, then it should work as expected <adfeno>I don't have it installed in my profile, so it must be somewhere where guix can find it, since I just did a .nar archive without having to build anything. <lfam>`guix refresh -l python` <adfeno>I guess I'll pick python-setuptools <adfeno>Also, now I'll do guix pull, just to get updates. <lfam>You could just build do `guix build python` <lfam>You should download the python substitute from Hydra <lfam>If not, something is wrong <lfam>After you test that, then feel free to `guix pull` <adfeno>@ substituter-failed /gnu/store/pyp3r19n6cqcc7vhlvd3n6b6jvqla57q-python-3.4.3 0 hash mismatch in downloaded path `/gnu/store/pyp3r19n6cqcc7vhlvd3n6b6jvqla57q-python-3.4.3': expected 60eb610db1948729ace3a81e7ea387848738d13a2b092d26d9fca950bb0b48fb, got d0c5d9d61e9a7feecc9ea4df64365e857ce0c724fcd89578509f168f57b49dd5 <lfam>Okay, something is not right :/ <adfeno>As I said: The download happens, but stops when 13,7 MiB is reached. <adfeno>This also happens if I try to build other things, but in those cases it happens with module-import-compiled package. <lfam>I'm going to notify our sysadmins. Feel free to `guix pull` and continue doing what you were doing <lfam>That will bypass the mirror <adfeno>lfam: Indeed, that bypassed the errors. <lfam>Okay, the mirror has a corrupt file. We will remove it <lfam>Thanks for helping debug it <adfeno>the substitutes were downloaded. <adfeno>Shouild I try importing the Python.nar file I saved previously? <adfeno>Or is it better to just remove it? <lfam>adfeno: It shouldn't make a difference either way <ng0>back. was there something intended for me to read recently? <adfeno>ng0: Which feature of GNUnet I can use to test if it's working or not? <adfeno>It seems that gnunet-statistics isn't working. <adfeno>while gnunet-arm -I says it's running. <alezost>quigonjinn: I use shepherd for my user services (previously I also used systemd for this), do you have any problems with it? <ng0>no idea at the moment, better report at gnunet.org bugtracker, mailinglist or here in #gnunet. <ng0>you can try gnunet eh.... one moment <quigonjinn>is there a way to force a build to fail before/after a specific phase <jmd>I'm sure that somebody must have written a script to convert ini style files to scheme and vici-versa but I can't find anything. <ng0>gnunet-search --verbose avi <ng0>adfeno: gnunet-search --verbose avi <ng0>otherwise: no idea at the moment, better report at gnunet.org bugtracker, mailinglist or here in #gnunet. <ng0>also, give gnunet some time to build connections etc <ng0>additionally, keep in mind 0.10.1 is terribly old. <ng0>almost everyone who isn't on some distro forced version is running HEAD or whatever version I pointed gentoo 0.10.1_* to <quigonjinn>alezost: i got it to work, invoking shepherd as a user from .bash_profile. Do you have any alternative? <adfeno>(Whatever it is)... ""King of the Hill_.gnd"" <ng0>so the part of the network which has 0.10.1 has some size, but it HEAD is incompatible to 0.10.1 as hash format etc changed. <alezost>quigonjinn: I also run shepherd from .bash_profile :-) <adfeno>Side-topic: One thing that got me lost during installation of Guix was to which profile file I should source the one from .guix-profile. <ng0>time for 0.10.2 release.. well, i hope it'll happen at the end of the stretched summer (after all it's still very warm outside ;D). christian is a bit perfectionist on releases i think.. that's why the release time is so long. <ng0>have to work on this core dump thing. glad to be of any help to you. <adfeno>... then noticed that applications running in terminal would pick the right locale, while those run, say, from .desktop files wouldn't (and so would default to English). <adfeno>One thing that I would like to see in GNUnet is mutable files or directories. <ng0>easy solution, which I recommend to every in here: get hacking on it. <adfeno>I have been attracted to Guix and GuixSD for quite some time thanks for the talks and texts about it. <adfeno>But I only recently got involved into making package recipes to it thanks to an unfortunate situation: I tried installing Tahoe-LAFS (which supports mutable files) in my copy of Trisquel, but failed. <adfeno>So since then (around 1m[onth] ago), I'm trying to make a recipe for Tahoe-LAFS. <adfeno>But I guess I'll stick to GNUnet instead. <ng0>well as long as you keep going it can still be finished :) <ng0>I've spent about 1 year on all gnunet releated packages for gentoo <ng0>reading into gnunet and it's -fs and papers and code could be good though. <adfeno>ng0: Yep, I did most of the work on it, around 30% is done. Now, things started to get hairy due to failed tests, failed builds, and some dependencies asking for a copy of git in order to get version information about themselves (???). <ng0>bavier: do you want my very very wip of inox? <bavier>ng0: :), no, I'll let others go down that road <ng0>it involves hate and screaming. it's a brave quest... <sankey>adfeno: if you have any sort of wiki page or ticket tracking your progress on packaging tahoe-lafs for guix, i'm interested <sankey>i've gotten so far as creating a list of missing dependencies, but it seems you are further <adfeno>sankey: I don't have wiki, but all my findings are documented in the recipe itself <ng0>you can cheat the version lookups via git. <adfeno>ng0: I managed to cheat those by forcing the variable which holds the version.... <lfam>Can somebody review my OpenSSL security update patches? I think it should be enough to verify that I've used the correct hash (check the upstream PGP sigs) and that the packages build <adfeno>... Although I didn't check if this would result in catastrofic effects, since of course, I'm not a programmer. :) <adfeno>ACTION falls of the chair laughting. <ng0>bavier: how is this different from inox and iridium? can you give a summary if possible? <adfeno>... I guess I'll send the recipe to guix-devel mailing list. <adfeno>sankey: Are you subscribed to guix-devel? <bavier>ng0: disables more background google services, disables use of more pre-built and downloaded binaries during the build, strips binaries from source tarball, disables google-domain-specific functionality, and some other things <ng0>okay, i look into it. but I fear one has still to build the core, chromium ;D <ng0>and that is a rabbit hole whic hgoes deeeeeep <adfeno>I think I'd better set non-substitutable (sorry, non-native English speaker) variable. <ng0>so far i have identified all dependencies, written a scratch of inox patches, and started something to unbundle, but i decided that palemoon is easier to fix up as I have packaged it before. chromium is a thing I work on every now and then. <ng0>as it doesn't even build i have not pushed it. <adfeno>Also, for those interested, I made a simple script to travers through source code looking for possible references to paths, and also for configuration variables. <adfeno>Wow! Epiphany's UI is somewhat corrupted... <lfam>adfeno: Can you send a bug report to bug-guix@gnu.org? <adfeno>Let's see if I can find what happened. <lfam>ng0: Is there an HTTPS darcs repo that I can test darcs with? <ng0>as i wrote, there is no https in darcs. <adfeno>sankey: I looked more into Tahoe-LAFS dependencies... <adfeno>... And I'm now worried with a possible license issue. <lfam>ng0: I think that I have to set the DARCS_GET_HTTPS environment variable. Is that incorrect? <lfam>Okay, then I think we can remove the comment about this subject from the top of your patch. What do you think? <ng0>read the comments and links I've provided. you only pass an application like curl to DARCS_GET_HTTP <ng0>https get does not exist per their own documentation. <lfam>Shouldn't "DARCS_GET_HTTP=curl" work? Assuming that curl is properly configured <ng0>but what if someone else tries to find this information? shouldn't we keep it? it was not easy to find. <ng0>yes, but only for http. not for https. <adfeno>sankey: I think I'll contact the project in question (not Tahoe-LAFS) and ask for clarification on what they did. <ng0>and if you leave this variable off, it just works. <ng0>oh. okay seems like you get more information zthan i did in #darcs, lfam. <adfeno>ng0: I'll keep the recipe on hold for now and try to contact upstream to see which license they really intended to use. <sankey>so it's just a license mismatch between the pypi package and what the code claims? <adfeno>It's just that zbase32 is an indirect dependency for Tahoe-LAFS. <adfeno>But zbase32 is under "BSD license", and Tahoe-LAFS is under both GNU GPL 2 "orl ater" and "Transitive Grace Period Public License" 1 "or later". <sankey>FWIW, zooko is one of the core tahoe-lafs devs <adfeno>And that VCS has a LICENSE file, and a different license. <sankey>the pypi package "home page" just gives me a dead link <sankey>so i'm not sure how you connected the two <ng0>pypi is sometimes faded out,just like cpan etc.. <adfeno>Because it has the same "DESIGN" file <adfeno>I'd better report the bug involving Epiphany first and last, it's almost college time. <rekado>bavier: I was wondering the same but then remembered that one needs a stable and reliable upstream for a browser. <bavier>rekado: true. we don't know how reliable the ungoogle source is yet <rekado>on the other hand I’m a little unhappy with Epiphany and Icecat at the moment. <lfam>What's wrong with epiphany? <bavier>I'm annoyed that I can't use sandstorm from epiphany... <ng0>for me palemoon works.. it's not up to date, but I expect it to finish soon and serve as a base for me to work on other browsers. <rekado>Epiphany sometimes (but regularly) eats up all memory for no known reason, which leads to thrashing and a forced computing break for me. <rekado>I open one tab and within 30 secs the mouse lags and then I know I’m doomed. <rekado>it also crashed three times today. <lfam>Hm, that also sounds pretty bad :/ <lfam>God only knows why it's crashing. <rekado>each time it coincided with me closing one of four simple tabs. <ng0>you discovered the secret doom mode. after all, 'does it run doom?' <rekado>looking at the roadmap I also see that many planned tasks were not even started. <rekado>then there’s the lack of extensions, such as adblock. <lfam>The browser situation is really bad overall <rekado>I actually started hacking on xwidget support in Emacs. <rekado>have a patch set to use the WebKit2 API. <lfam>I think that if Guix hackers are willing to package a chromium-derived browser, and unwilling to contribute to icecat or epiphany, they should do the chromium package <ng0>i want at least one browser which supports the format of taler browserextension, and with the slow pace of icecat i don't want icecat at the moment. <lfam>Motivation is not fungible <rekado>I’d like to contribute to epiphany, actually, <rekado>but the lack of a roadmap for extensions really hurt my motivation. <ng0>well... s/want/need/ <lfam>Well, I'm just saying, if someone is motivated to add a chromium, we should not block them just because the other browsers are relatively unmaintained <rekado>they used to have extensions, but now they don’t. <brendyn>Is it difficult to package Iceweasel? <lfam>Iceweasel is actually just Firefox now, if I understand correctly <lfam>Or maybe I have it backwards <lfam>They are allowed to call their fork "Firefox" <lfam>Right, I'm on Debian so that's my lens <ng0>i sorta kinda do chromium, but for my own sanity I'd be willing to throw the progress in whoever's willing to package it direction... <brendyn>We aren't in the Mozilla-Debian Love circle over here at Parabola :/ <ng0>it's a normal package until you start unbundling xD <lfam>I think we desperately need a web browser that gets security updates quickly <ng0>so looking at my current priority and todo list I am the wrong person working on a 'we need it noaaaw' browser <adfeno>I'm quite worried with the issue on Firefox and Debian, so I avoid recommending Firefox for the time being. <ng0>if anyone wants the progress, I shall post the inox.scm tomorrow morning to the list. <lfam>And if Epiphany is crashing all the time, there are probably exploitable bugs <adfeno>lfam: About Epiphany: For me, the icons are missing. <lfam>adfeno: What are you worried about? <adfeno>lfam: I mean, there's little consensus as to whether Firefox is free or not, even if comming from Debian. <lfam>Oh, I thought you meant the name change <lfam>Yeah, that's an issue too <adfeno>While, in the case of IceCat, there is for sure to be free. <ng0>if someone wants desperately to start in some hours on inox (chromium), I can send it earlier. kinda busy right now <ng0>you won't finish it in some hours though ;D <lfam>ng0: I'm not going to start on it soon, regardless of when you post it. No rush for me <adfeno>Also another one that I'm in the middle of the fence is Chromium. I instead recommend Iridium for the general public instead. <lfam>I want free software and I want secure software. <ng0>inox is similar to iridium. <lfam>I don't know a browser I can use today that satisfies both <lfam>Actually, I don't even know a secure browser. <ng0>i can't trust a browser which is as bloated as chromium anyway. so we *have* to unbundle as much as possible. <brendyn>I'd rather just support a versiom of Firefox. I think it's too self defeating to boycott every last browser. <adfeno>Yep, but supporting Firefox itself is rather complex. <rekado>brendyn: this is not about boycotting Firefox <ng0>palemoon is what gets my attention currently. but that's just me and my long wip list. <lfam>I haven't tried eww, I will check it out. Thanks for the recommendation <lfam>Well, I personally don't boycott Debian's Firefox or Chromium. <rekado>we *have* the Firefox derivative IceCat, but there are not enough developers to make timely releases. <lfam>Yes, it's a bad situation <ng0>they are postponiung releases in discussions about extensions is my impression.. <ng0>nothing I'd like to step into. <rekado>lfam: eww is a text browser inside of Emacs. It’s lacking tons of features. It’s free software and probably secure by virtue of doing hardly anything. <lfam>I've seen how some of the more obscure browsers silently fail to validate TLS, so I'm wary of them <lfam>Especially since HTTP mutation is not some obscure attack but standard procedure for ISPs here in the US <ng0>epiphany and icecat started to fial certificates for me.. new epiphany no longer. <ng0>best for the time being would probably be torbrowser.. they are moving at a speed which is good enough and address fixes fast enough <lfam>True, good recommendation <lfam>I wonder if I could get that to run on GuixSD <ng0>it would not be official tor browser, so we have to warn about this, like our gentoo package for it. <lfam>Right, I just mean downloading the binary from Tor <lfam>I might be able to hack up some container that puts everything it needs in /usr <ng0>nix packages it, i've tried to run the binary once. <ng0>but anything which works.. <ng0>unbundling chromium makes me sad. it's like trying to cuddle darth vader. it works, but it hurts and is very complex. <lfam>Honestly, this isn't a priority for me. Debian's packaging is good enough and I have other priorities. But I would donate money to IceCat if that would help the project stay in sync with upstream. <ng0>you start to believe google programmers are like pokemon trainers. gotta bundle them all :/ <ng0>how many modules do we have in gnu/packages? 200? inox.scm imports 60. for 1 package. <rekado>I just went to badssl.com to see if eww complains about the invalid certs on the example pages: it does. <roptat>I'm trying to improve the nginx service, and I added support for vhost configuration in the global configuration file (guix system reconfigure) <roptat>when I try to reconfigure the system, the service is still running on the old configuration file <roptat>I don't really know what to look for <lfam>roptat: Did you try `herd restart nginx`? <roptat>it still loads nginx with the old configuration file