IRC channel logs


back to list of logs

<ng0>ha. ican't even ping outside hosts.
<ng0>is there anything special i need to load for VMs? I'm not so experienced with vms on guix and in general
<ng0>can't even ping one of my routers.. there must be a mistake in the vm.
<ng0>i know i should stop take a break on this for today, but if someone has a VM with funcitonal networking to outside world config at hand, paste them please :)
<ng0>well.. selfcare etc. I'll go to bed. drop me a line via sneek if someone got a config.
<sneek>Common_Era, you have 1 message.
<sneek>Common_Era, rekado says: Make sure that your user account is not a member of the group that is reserved for build users.
<Common_Era>So, I got it installing. Its appears to install perfectly. I'm now running into to a problem with which I know the problem, just not how to fix it.
<Common_Era>I'm using (use-modules (msg test)) and that is the module I defined that it should install, but, of course, I'm getting no code for module (msg test)...
<Common_Era>Do I have to restart something before I can use it?
<lfam>Common_Era: You shouldn't need to restart anything. Probably, some path (whether filesystem or Guile module path) is incorrect
<sneek>Welcome back lfam, you have 1 message.
<sneek>lfam, efraim says: what happened with the python-updates branch? I'd like to work on it some
<lfam>efraim: I put wip-python aside for a while, but we should work on it.
<lfam>efraim: I found that the web of dependencies is very tangled
<lfam>efraim: This is what Nix had to do to update setuptools:
<lfam>efraim: It was too much to work on wip-python and also keep on top of security updates and contribute some patch reviews
<lfam>efraim: But, it's important to update the core Python packages. We are reaching the limit of what our Python packages can do; some important Python packages require newer Python build tools
<lfam>efraim: Next week I will have some time. This week I am very busy
<lfam>efraim: Since it's a "wip" branch, feel free to rebase it. If I notice you working on it, I will notify you if I need to rebase it. We should collaborate if it is efficient; otherwise, tell me if you are "claiming" the branch
<JamesRichardson>Is anyone packaging common lisp modules, specifically cl-ppcre? Seems there's not an abundance of information on how to do such things...
<JamesRichardson>Appears this is not exactly a trivial thing.
<efraim>I might need to contact upstream about python-fake-factory and see what's up about the failing tests
<efraim>Or I could just replace it with python-faker, like their depreciation message said
<paroneayea>I hadn't noticed this until now, but
<paroneayea>davexunit: here's a thread on emacs-devel for guix and virtualenv and etc management
<paroneayea>environment managmeent
***[0xAA] is now known as FuggyArtist
<alezost>JamesRichardson: no one is packaging lisp modules
<davexunit>from talking with Common Lisp people, it seems that they don't use a sane system.
<davexunit>I think someone that really knows CL will have to add support, because it's not apparent what the best approach is.
<davexunit>my basic question is: how do we import and build stuff from quicklisp?
<davexunit>package request: these gimp plugins: :)
<OrangeShark>davexunit: doesn't quicklisp just use asdf?
<davexunit>OrangeShark: I wish I knew.
<davexunit>asdf rings a bell, but I know nothing about it.
<OrangeShark>quicklisp is a package manager and then asdf is the build system I think
<davexunit>that's about as far as my knowledge goes.
<davexunit>I don't know how to handle multiple CL implementations, where things get installed, environment variables, etc.
<alezost>off-topic: there is a Git survey if anyone is interested:
***tschwing_ is now known as tschwinge
<adfeno>Hi all! :)
<adfeno>Do any of you use Skribilo to make Lout documents?
<zacts>hi guix geeks
<adfeno>Hi :)
<zacts>or should I just say guix?
<zacts>is guix a pun for geek now in everyday lingo?
<zacts>I'm working on another distro Dragora gnu/linux-libre, but I also want to help with guix
<zacts>how is guix + hurd moving along?
<adfeno>That's very kind :)
<zacts>does guixsd support hurd or is it just guix as a user space pkg system?
<adfeno>I don't know how Guix + Hurd is going, but I do see a hurd package.
<rekado>paroneayea: thanks for the link to emacs-devel. Interesting.
<adfeno>Is it possible to define/assign a set of inputs just for a specific package output?
<janneke>adfeno: how would that help?
<adfeno>I was just thinking if it was possible.
<janneke>i can imagine it could help for propagated-inputs
<janneke>Ah... :-)
<adfeno>It's because I'm having an issue with -python2-twisted. I made a package recipe called python2-twisted-tls, which basically inherits the other one, and has extra inputs.
<adfeno>But it seems that, other packages that now depend on python2-twisted-tls, showed an error during test phase.
<adfeno>(I don't know if the error itself was caused because I changed the package name, but it's my best guess as a non-programmer),
<janneke>i'm not sure i understand the issue, but you can extend any inputs when inheriting
<ng0>eh.. the test suite of kallithea requires tons of old python software versions.. can I skip this? I packaged so much already of this, but i still need to go on with the graph.. -.-
<rekado>adfeno: you can use (inputs `(,@(inherit (package-inputs parent) more-inputs)))
<adfeno>rekado: Yep... :)
<ng0>we would be maintaining at least 8 very old python modules just for kallithea. I will point this out upstream, and skip the tests if you are okay with it.
<ng0>that is just for the test
<ng0>but it's not just the tests.. grml. okay. I need to go on with this. argh
<mordocai>So I stopped using guix temporarily due to some compat issues I had while running an all-guix user on top of debian and not wanting to take the time to figure it out. Anyone currently doing that and can vouch for it working? I'd love to use guix again but for now I want to use debian for a few non-free things I use.
<adfeno>mordocai: What was the problem in detail?
<janneke>mordocai: i did that from jan-may...
<mordocai>adfeno: I never finished taking good notes but here is what I had
<mordocai>i was planning of filing bugs etc but I got lazy
<mordocai>planning on*
<mordocai>The icecat one means that i'll probably just end up using a firefox package I build with my own package def
<mordocai>The gnupg error was the big killer though since I use gnupg signing all the time
<jmd>This Cuiriass thing sounds intriguing. But couldn't we change it's name to something which doesn't sound quit so obscene?
<ng0>obscene? sorry the word cuiriass is new to me
<ng0>that's now obscene imo
<ng0>mordocai: icecat development is terribly slow. I started packaging inox because I need a functional, up to date browser for the systems I build
<mordocai>ng0: Yeah, i'm partial to firefox so if I can get my workflow working on guix i'll probably build my own firefox package
<ng0>well a brwoser is no requirement, but a browser is nice to have. and if you have one, it shouldn't kick you off every 3rd page.
<mordocai>ACTION thinks browser is a requirement for him
<ng0>systems i build refered to not my own personal ones..
<davexunit>I would love a browser that more closely tracks firefox
<davexunit>and doesn't change much beyond the minimum needed for FSDG and Mozilla trademark requirements
<ng0>you could try to get involved with icecat.
<mordocai>davexunit: Which according to debian isn't required anymore. Idk the legalese enough to know whether something like guix would be able to legally use firefox if it wanted to as well.
<davexunit>it was an exception made for debian
<janneke>yeah, i browse on my phone since running guixsd :-P
<mordocai>Got it, wasn't sure
<davexunit>I use icecat without issues
<janneke>for the rest it's pretty amazing
<davexunit>but every now and then I want a newer browser
<mordocai>janneke: It really isn't hard to create a package def for firefox
<mordocai>or chromium or whatever
<ng0>i want an up to date browser because icecat has started to show its age .. web sites are locking me out.
<ng0>so i use browsers on nixos.
<janneke>mordocai: :-) the hard thing for me there is to create inspiration to do so
<mordocai>janneke: Well, if I start using guix again I'll share my defs
<davexunit>I use epiphany as well
<davexunit>when icecat has a problem
<janneke>yes, sometimes the other one works...
<mordocai>Basically my main passion is working on my lisp software i'm working on so I like guix but I don't want to spend ALL my free time messing with it instead of lisp.
<adfeno>This exception for Debian drives me crazy. Lot's of people here in Brazil, and internationally during Software Freedom Day saying that Firefox "is free".
<adfeno>mordocai: I know how you feel. :)
<janneke>right...i'm working on a web-based gui for lilypond, mes: a minimal bootstrapping scheme interpreter, guix cross-build environments to mingw and darwin, continuous build and other guix intention atm to start on browsers
<mordocai>Side note, is it blasphemy/would it cause problems to run the guix package store out of a /home/guix? Most of my machines have a lot more room in /home then /
<davexunit>mordocai: you can use whatever store directory you want, but you'll need to build everything from source.
<adfeno>mordocai: I just wanted to make a Guix recipe for Tahoe-LAFS, and ended up needing one full week of my free time to make recipes for other needed packages, and counting.
<mordocai>davexunit: Well that latter part is unfortunate. I suppose I could symlink things to make them in /home instead of the normal dir
<adfeno>Although it's not my falt, it's upstream's falt.
<davexunit>mordocai: changing the store directory changes the hash of everything. no way around it.
<davexunit>since store items refer to binaries, libraries, etc. via absolute file names
<ng0>gra. gentoo changed something again so i need to change something in the overlay again. i love guix for stability. ._.
<davexunit>and AFAIK /gnu/store may not be a symlink
<mordocai>davexunit: Yeah... can't say I overly enjoy that detail but I get why it is that why. I can do it with mounts if symlinks won't work.
<mordocai>why it is that way*
<davexunit>it's important for reproducibility
<davexunit>in practice it's not an issue
<mordocai>In practice I just told you why it is an issue for me :P
<adfeno>I which python programmers would do less bundling... :S
<adfeno>It seems `guix build` doesn't like to download the substitute for module-import-compiled.
<janneke>adfeno: they will when they warm up to Guile ;-)
<yuehan81>hi, last night I only first discovered the guixSD system and guix package manager. I am really very enthusiastic about this GNU OS as its whole filosophy looks so great. I am sure that this will become the number one Free GNU OS!
<adfeno>yuehan81: :)
<adfeno>janneke: I'm counting on it. :)
<yuehan81>I had some difficulties last night as my old laptop needed the sata_nv loaded by initrd
<yuehan81>it has been a long time that I played with more advanced systems where you have to know what you are doing ;-)
<yuehan81>I loved using archbang Linux but figured out that I could move to parabola Linux to get totally back into a fully free GNU system without proprietary blobs and applications :-)
<adfeno>yuehan81: We're glad that you decided to move to free/libre software :)
<yuehan81>I just wanted to express my appreciation for giving me a system that I can totally control myself and which is the perfect way to learn the internals of what is going on behind the surface
<adfeno>... not only we, but society in general.
<davexunit>yuehan81: thanks for the kind words. we hope you stick around!
<yuehan81>I don't have a background in computer science but OS internals is really something so amazing that I cannot stop looking deeper into it. :-)
<yuehan81>have to go now. I hope to come back here more often and hope to be helpful in the near future to support this project! :-)
<adfeno>yuehan81: You're welcome. :)
<yuehan81>thanks for listening ;-) keep up the good work!
<yuehan81>oh, one more question. is there anything like LXC containers in guixSD?
<davexunit>yuehan81: nothing that mature.
<adfeno>Hm... LXC...
<davexunit>'guix system container' provides some limited functionality
<davexunit>'guix environment --container', however, works pretty darn well
<davexunit>but it's not for running full guixsd systems
<davexunit>I guess I'll use this as another opportunity to ask for help with the container implementation
<davexunit>containers are the new hotness, folks!
<yuehan81>it is just that I would like to use them for installing servers like Apache etc without the need to use KVM for example
<yuehan81>but I guess with the great package management a rollback would not be difficult in case I messed up!? ,:-p
<davexunit>yuehan81: do you want a fully isolated OS, or would something different work?
<yuehan81>thanks for the tips about guix containers. I will look into it. ;-)
<davexunit>there's much work to be done in this space
<davexunit>I started it some time ago
<yuehan81>since host resources are limited I would like to use containers instead of the full blown OS virtualization
<davexunit>yuehan81: depending on your exact needs, you can use 'guix environment --container' for this.
<davexunit>I use it at work to run a bunch of ruby on rails servers
<davexunit>you may not even need a container!
<davexunit>it really all depends
<davexunit>yuehan81: what are you looking to achieve? do you use containers as a way of allowing different applications to run with potentially conflicting dependencies?
<davexunit>or do you use them for resource isolation? or both?
<yuehan81>I actually would like to use containers to quickly isolate some apps or services just in order to play with them and test them without messing up my host system. but if I understand you well it might not be necessary, correct?
<davexunit>yuehan81: right.
<yuehan81>I could just as well install them directly in my host GuixSD
<adfeno>I guess `guix environment --pure` might do the trick. :)
<davexunit>--pure may not be needed, either.
<davexunit>there are many levels of virtualization you can choose from
<davexunit>yuehan81: normally using a container is to get around the fact that system package managers install everything to /usr
<davexunit>but with guix, you can have many "profiles" which each have their own set of packages included
<yuehan81>sounds great! I will definitely start learning more about it so that I know what the possibilities are
<davexunit>'guix environment' can make short-lived profiles on-the-fly for whatever task you want
<davexunit>but you can also just use multiple long-lived profiles with the normal 'guix package' tool
<davexunit>I have some thoughts about how to make a docker-like thing using guix but I haven't implemented it yet
<yuehan81>so with guix package and guix environment it is both easy to undo what you installed without leaving behind stuff in the main Linux filesystem structure?
<davexunit>yuehan81: there is no /usr, if that's what you mean by "main Linux filesystem structure"
<davexunit>everything is in /gnu/store in isolated directories, and you can run 'guix gc' to reclaim disk space
<davexunit>but yes, with 'guix package' you can do rollback
<yuehan81>it seems without reading the whole manual yet that I did not totally get it yet
<davexunit>guix gets its power by eliminating /usr
<adfeno>yuehan81: Suppose I have a package update, I made the upgrade, tested, and didn't like it. I can rollback to previous generations.
<yuehan81>so even after initializing the system the programs under /gnu/store are never moved to /etc /bin /use/share etc?
<davexunit>yuehan81: correct
<davexunit>each package gets its own directory in /gnu/store, with its own bin/ directory and stuff
<davexunit>and a "profile" is just a union of one or more of these directories
<davexunit>a profile is a bunch of symlinks pointing to the various packages
<davexunit>I would experiment with the 'guix package' tool a bit to get a feel for this
<davexunit>install stuff, roll back, delete generations, and inspect the contents of ~/.guix-profile
<yuehan81>wow. thanks for this wonderful introduction to guix
<davexunit>you're welcome. peruse the manual for more background information
<yuehan81>I have to go now. I will discover more but reading and experimenting
<davexunit>see ya!
<yuehan81>then I will definitely come back with more good experiences and questions ;)
<yuehan81>good evening everyone!
<janneke>davexunit: apropos ~/.guix-profile (or any other profile) and manifest...if i forget from which ~/src/guix commit some packages were installed and want to reproduce [part of] that profile, is that somehow possible?
<davexunit>janneke: no
<davexunit>it's a one-way transform
<janneke>thanks. i thought i had this problem a couple of weeks ago, but then master was okay again. probably best to keep track of git checkouts and always update everything in your profile after bumping the git checkout
<davexunit>you can maintain a manifest file for that purpose
<davexunit>that's what I do
<davexunit>and use 'guix package --manifest'
<janneke>yes, i do that now too
<janneke>i goofed up by manually adding to it later...
<adfeno>Strange, even though `guix pull` tells me that everything is updated, I still have the problem of failing to download "module-import-compiled" when using `guix build`.
<adfeno>s/to download/to download the substitute of/
<ng0>i no longer want to work on kallithea. It's just some test dependencies which need to be packaged. anyone up to continuing this? I'll send the batch to the guix-devel list if this is the case. otherwise this will take some time, I need to focus on my own packages
<adfeno>Hi, is anyone able to use "obs" when Guix is installed in another distro than GuixSD?
<janneke>adfeno: obs?
<janneke>ah, that's a package
<janneke>not knowing it, it read like an abbreviation to me
<janneke>stands for public elementary school, in dutch :)
<janneke>(openbare basis school)
<ng0>anyone doing the tor update already?
<ng0> /me updates tor
<amz3`>guix server really needs better hardware or something
<amz3`>or maybe it's gnu mirror that is laking
<amz3`>downloading guix's binary tarball takes forever
<adfeno>amz3`: Perhaps its the mirror.
<amz3`>seems like gnu has some trouble
<amz3`>ACTION checking
<adfeno>The mirror selector gave me a good one.
<amz3`>ah gnu servers have issues
<ng0>tor update is sent.
<amz3`>does guix have emacs 25.1?
<amz3`>25.1 has nice guile integration
<amz3`>you can click on backtrace and it jumps to the file
<amz3`>so what's up in guix land?
<amz3`>I see ng0 is very active on the ML, are you trying to become the next maintainer?
<ng0>no, i just had many work in progress packages.. now I need to focus on my own packages, which is system integration for gnunet, psyced, secushare.
<ng0>i still am sitting on many packages
<ng0>reddit, searx, etc
<amz3`>a package for reddit?
<ng0>the software which powers it is on github
<amz3`>I have read almost all the documentation of software heritage (swh) project
<amz3`>and it seems kind of similar to guix in my point of view
<amz3`>they try to tackle similar problems like reproducibility, open science, etc...
<amz3`>basically, they built an abstraction layer on top of git which can also track tarballs
<ng0>some of my own works were/are slowed down by the lack of rust+cargo in guix. so I got distracted a bit. started packaging inox, 0ad, reddit, searx, kallithea, USD (the pixar thing),bbs100 (waiting for maintainer to come back from holidays), citadel, etc
<amz3`>civodul tried to discuss with them to see whether guix can use swh as a mirror
<bavier>yeah, it'd be nice to use swh as a content-addressable store for our source tarballs
<amz3`>they seems to have a lot of money
<amz3`>or maybe it just me that think that. At least they have a lot of sponsors
<ng0>well, tbh why you see so many contributions I make: I have no paying full time job or university atm, so I am looking to learn as much as I can to dig deeper into the core of guix so that secushare can be shipped out with a GuixSD powered live-system among NixOS ones. I have no deadlines yet, but I am working on some. So I am hacking almost 24/7 on this.
<amz3`>hmm ok I wish I could that, but I got distracted with guile hacking
<amz3`>I am building a search engine in guile
<amz3`>there is demo here ->
<ng0>i wish i would not have to do it. or even better, i wish i could get some kind of minimal funding for it. not to go into detail, but conditions are bad.
<amz3`>I imagine
<ng0>well maybe I can arrange some way to start university when I'm better, and then there's one item on my roadmap which deals with guix+gnunet and probably is a good item for a bachelor thesis or any related work.
<amz3`>I tried several times to work on gnunet to improve the bindings but failed miserably
<amz3`>guile bindings that is
<ng0>i moved the bindings to git and intend to work on them in the next 6 months.
<ng0>that's just temporary, as we upstream as much as possible.
<amz3`>what is temporary?
<ng0>the location.
<ng0>i mean.. it's not intended as a fork or maintenance there.
<amz3`>it would be better, if the bindings were supported upstream I think
<amz3`>btw guix substitutes download is very fast
<ng0>I just decided the most logic place for us to work on gnunet related packages and distributions is and associated domains for respective application packages. so the gentoo.overlay was moved there, my guix packages were moved there, my (still needs to be populated) nixpkgs moved there.
<ng0>you mean the guile bindings should be in gnunet?
<ng0>or hosted directly there?
<ng0>it's a separate project, so having it outside of core makes sense.
<amz3`>well that is two questions:
<amz3`>1) I am in favor of single repositories
<amz3`>2) I mean that upstream should maintain the bindings, however they want
<ng0> that can be arranged.
<amz3`>so you hack on gnunet?
<ng0>I just have to talk with civodul and the original contributor i think
<amz3`>remi? it's been a while I did not see him
<ng0>I do the system integration work etc.. for gnunet and secushare, for gentoo and guix.
<amz3`>maybe you can do a fundraising for building gnunet bindings?
<ng0>decided to add myself to the team list some days ago and join gnunet ev after being quasi-part of the team for a rather long team.
<amz3`>gnunet ev is a company?
<ng0>maybe, that could work @ funding
<ng0>no.. it's an associazione
<amz3`>I would definitly support that project
<ng0>whatever the english word is
<amz3`>fundation i think
<amz3`>or something I don't know either
<amz3`>they are several guile hackers interested in guile bindings
<ng0>i call it eV because that's the german words used, eingetragener Verein
<amz3`>my interest in gnunet is to build some kind of distributed database
<ng0>my interest is the develpment of secushare (packaging it, creating the live-systems based on NixOS+GuixSD), and to create an distributed push/pull/publish something for guix.
<ng0>there's more but those are the bigger ones
<amz3`>to make it easier to create p2p apps
<amz3`>ah i did not know about secure share
<ng0>hm.. isn't that already what we are doing at secushare? maybe you could ask one of the other developers involved and see if we can join forces?
<amz3`>what language does it use?
<amz3`>because I only want to code in guile
<ng0>should we take this to a query? it'Äs getting offtopic much :)
<amz3`>you will be happy to know that guix saved my day, I can restart working on my project using the brand new emacs installed from guix on top ubuntu :)
<ng0>i think lynX fixed my crappy guix ebuild. guix is now compiling in my gentoo vm.
<ng0>if my uber-crappy openrc service is also fixed, this is out of experimental status
<ng0>this service used to slow down your shutdown by 30 minutes