IRC channel logs

<mark`>Does anyone have experience installing guixsd from the usb image?

<lfam>efraim: Yes, something like that, but I will wait until the libtiff graft is on master. Those merges are a pain, so I'd rather just do one

<lfam>efraim: I missed your message until now, as I read the logs

<paroneayea>I have a 10 year old desktop running as my backup server, but it's falling apart.

<paroneayea>I'm thinking of ordering something lightweight and guixsd compatible

<paroneayea>not really sure what, though.

<paroneayea>anyone doing something they'd recommend?

<paroneayea>I'm sure https://www.thinkpenguin.com/gnu-linux/penguin-pocket-wee-gnu-linux-desktop would be more than enough but costs a bit more than I'd like (the cost isn't so bad, I just don't have a lot of extra cash right now)

<paroneayea>also I'd probably need to switch my backup setup over to guix :)

<paroneayea>currently I'm running dirvish on debian.

<habs>I think there is something gravely wrong with my GuixSD installation. Is there any way to do a more thorough check than 'guix gc --verify=contents'? Any new packages I install always segfault unless I run them with sudo, and I get several hundred "collision encountered" warnings when installing any package.

<alezost>habs: I think you installed different packages in different times which may lead to multiple collisions, try to upgrade your profile: "guix package -u"

<alezost>btw how many packages are in your profile?

<efraim>i wonder if we should add an option to git-fetch for '--depth=1 --shallow-submodules'

<efraim>it always seemed faster for me on my netbook to not have to compute all the tags

<efraim>is lgpl2.1+ and openssl is ok? or should I switch openssl for gnutls

<ng0>Hi. Some of us are at reddit, right? What do you think about doing an "Ask Me Anything I'm a Guix Developer" or something like that? I don't use reddit, but depending on the topic those are good to get some questions solved and to get answers out there which aren't already obvious, and I think there's some percentage of reddit users which are hackernews users...

<efraim>we could try it, i'm not too sure how well I know some of the internals

<ng0>it's not a one person operation, so I assume the "I" could be extended to "we are" and more than just one person answers? I'm not sure how this AmA thing usually works

<efraim>#fsf says lgpl and openssl are incompatable

<ng0>how much resistance would there be if I added tex to the next gnunet version package? It has a feature which uses pdflatex for a very long time now. https://gnunet.org/bugs/view.php?id=4618#c11052

<ng0>is texlive-minimal == pdflatex?

<efraim>nows the time to get it in, while its still a new package :)

<ng0>hu?

<ng0>I think i wasn't clear

<efraim>i mean in terms of adding it

<efraim>i'm running find on /gnu/store now for pdflatex

<ng0>The optional dependency is there, it can beadded, i already do so on another system. I'm not sure though if it would require texlive or texlive-minimal or something entirely different, and I know many people here are protective about adding texlive to something

<ng0>ACTION runs e-file to check where pdflatex actually is

<efraim>so far i've found it in texlive and texlive-bin

<ng0>ah. not in -minimal?

<efraim>its still searching, i don't have it on my machine with an ssd so it takes a long time

<ng0>saves me the time to boot a system which boots another system where I could run e-file, which queries a database of filestructures of applications of gentoo :)

<efraim>ah I always forget about locate

<ng0>got it

<efraim>in texlive, didn't see it in texlive-minimal

<ng0>me neither

<efraim>but i might not have texlive-minimal on this machine

<ng0>if it is not in texlive-minimal, I will create a gnunet variation which inehrits this. I'm personally not so happy to add texlive as a dependency

<ng0>s/which inherits this/which provides this

<ng0>this is not my focus atm though, will be for later

<ng0>thanks for searching :)

<snape>hi, is there a way, with GuixSD, to avoid rebuilding the whole kernel when I change a little thing

<snape>I mean, I need to debug something

<snape>is there like a debugging workflow?

<snape>well, I guess I can manually update the linux modules that are in the initrd, and recompress it

<snape>make a fake /var/guix/system that points to the debugged linux/initrd

<snape>and that should boot...

<rekado_>snape: I'm not experienced with this but you can change the list of modules for your initrd in the operating-system declaration.

<rekado_>this doesn't rebuild the kernel afaik

<snape>it does not rebuild the kernel if none of its inputs are updated, but since I'm debugging the kernel, the source of the kernel is updated, and the build-initrd scm function will trigger a whole kernel rebuilding

<snape>(If I understand well)

<efraim>i have the internet again!

<efraim>-lgs links against what?

<habs>I tried running 'guix package -u' and it succeeded but now things are much worse as even the guix binary segfaults when run without sudo. Also I have 120 packages in my profile (GuixSD on a Thinkpad) @alezost. What can be done to further debug / fix this?

<rekado_>efraim: libgs --- ghostscript?

<efraim>rekado_: thats what i'm thinking, didn't seem to be happy with it

<efraim>i might need to add a patch phase after configure to fix something

<efraim>wait, i take it back, apparently it magically built while I wsan't looking

<Petter> the best builds ;)

<efraim>it wasn't happy with ghostscript-gs, did like both, now to try with just ghostscript

<efraim>heh yeah

<efraim>well, with efl gobbling up all the other enlightenment libraries it's time to add another patch making efl the sole enlightenment input on a couple packages

<habs>This is a quick example when I run /run/current-system/profile/bin/ls or any other newly-updated binary: http://sprunge.us/VZjB Can anyone help debug why they segfault? Is it a problem with my library paths?

<iyzsong>habs: did you set LD_LIBRARY_PATH? it shouldn't load libcap from ~/.guix-profile

<habs>iyzsong: My LD_LIBRARY_PATH is "/home/habs/.guix-profile/lib:/lib:/lib64"

<iyzsong>LD_LIBRARY_PATH shouldn't be set :-

<habs>iyzsong: Ah, that fixed my problem! Thanks!

<rekado_>LD_LIBRARY_PATH is a hack that tells the dynamic library loader to ignore what the binaries say they want and to load other libraries instead.

<rekado_>in Guix all binaries contain the full paths to libraries they need to load.

<davexunit>it would be cool if 'guix package --search-paths' printed out something that could be eval'd *without* clobbering the previous values of those variables

<davexunit>for example, it will set PATH such that *only* the profile is searched.

<rekado_>davexunit: isn't this the same as entering a sub-shell and then evaling the output?

<rekado_>(or source $profile/etc/profile in a sub-shell)

<davexunit>rekado_: oh yeah, forgot about /etc/profile!

<davexunit>thank you!

<muck>o/

<muck>how would you guys log stdout on tty1 within qemu when debugging a wm build ? the wm doesn't start and clearly produces lua related errors (awesome-wm) but i can't read it fast enough thanks to slim restarting and no related logs being in /var/log

<efraim>elementary is now part of efl, same commit to remove the now superfluous elementary or new commit?

<efraim>i mean remove from other package inputs

<efraim>not the package definition

<efraim>hmm, new efl can't find pulseaudio or libsndfile

<efraim>i might need to save the 1.18.0 bump for later, can't find a premade patch in their git tree

<paroneayea>mark_weaver: btw, do you know if the latest update of linux-libre you pulled in fixes that attack we discussed recently?

<paroneayea>ACTION wonders why coreutils is rebuilding on his machine

<paroneayea>oh

<paroneayea>new gcc?

<paroneayea>oh

<paroneayea>maybe I'm wrong,maybe it wasn't coreutils

<bavier>it might be nice for 'guix build' if one could specify the packages output, e.g. glibc:out, to optimize the case where substitutes are used

<lfam>bavier: You mean, only build the specified outputs?

<lfam>paroneayea: Maybe you were watching the installation process of some other package, which uses the `install` command from coreutils? That prints the store path of coreutils. I've been alarmed by seeing that in the past, until I realized what was happening.

<paroneayea>oh hello

<paroneayea>lfam: I think yes

<paroneayea>let's update guix to have ascii boxes like this ;)

<paroneayea>*******************

<paroneayea>* UPDATING: glibc *

<paroneayea>*******************

<paroneayea>I'm sure everyone else will be cool with this :)

<lfam>No, please :)

<paroneayea>okay okay lfam

<nully>paroneayea: needs more *s

<paroneayea>we'll use unicode box drawing characters instead!

<lfam>Only one piece of information will fit on the screen at a time ;)

<nully>one screen full per packag

<nully>e

<davexunit>why not run the titles through figlet? http://www.figlet.org/

<davexunit>sounds like the best option here

<lfam>In seriousness, has anyone ever audited the ASCII art programs? I'd rather not add lines of code to our base system for frivolous reasons :)

<lfam>Inkscape makes me nervous already

<davexunit>inkscape is just used when building

<davexunit>and should be able to replaced in the future

<paroneayea>render to PNG using inkscape, then render to PNG, and print to screen using aalib

<paroneayea>PROBLEM SOLVED

<lfam>Speaking of which, inkscape uses libtiff, which has a pending security update on the mailing list :)

<paroneayea>oops, need one less render to png!

<paroneayea>see, it's even easier than I thought

<lfam>Lol

<davexunit>paroneayea: patches welcome

<paroneayea>davexunit: in this case since it's not requiring any major rebuilds, it's safe to just push this change directly to git master without review right?

<davexunit>paroneayea: absolutely.

<paroneayea>great!

<paroneayea>and I agree nully, there can always be more *s

<paroneayea>the reaction you really want is "my god it's full of *s"

<davexunit>detect the width of the controlling terminal and print more *s as needed

<lfam>I tried to package this for April Fool's Day: http://robobunny.com/projects/asciiquarium/html/

<lfam>But I couldn't get it to build :/

<paroneayea>so the more the better

<paroneayea>cute lfam

<lfam>Yeah, I was going to present it as some great advance in the state of the art of free software

<paroneayea>man, freshmeat

<lfam>An aquarian interface

<paroneayea>you know, even in its height, I could never find freshmeat manageable to read

<lfam>Much easier to eat

<paroneayea>I'm a vegetarian thank you

<lfam>Pass it over here ;)

<paroneayea>vegetarians don't eat meat, but we do read meat like tea leaves

<paroneayea>as long as it's fresh.

<lfam>Back to serious topics, does anyone know why libarchive triggers 976 rebuilds? Is there some core package which uses it, or is it just an input to many leaf packages?

<lfam>Hm, sees to only appear in a handful of package modules

<lfam>s/sees/seems

<bavier>lfam: I meant, when a 'guix build foo' results in downloading all outputs of foo from a substitute server, it would be nice to specify which you're interested in

<bavier>if the 'guix build foo' requires a local build, you just build the whole thing anyhow

<lfam>bavier: Ah, that would be nice

<lfam>Right, I wasn't sure how my interpretation would be possible, but yours seems possible

<bavier>e.g. 'guix build glibc' downloads the debug output, which I'm currently not interested in

<lfam>Some bad problems with libarchive: https://github.com/libarchive/libarchive/issues/743

<bavier>so something like 'guix package' supports: guix build glibc:out

<lfam>Especially bad for operating systems that *use* libarchive as part of the software update mechanisms

<lfam>But, that's not us, AFAICT

<lfam>Although, I shouldn't be the only person to look at this

<lfam>Cmake uses libarchive :/

<lfam>A handful of other packages, too, but mostly cmake

<efraim>libarchive is used in cmake, not sure what else

<efraim>libcaca is also fun for ascii video watching

<efraim>mpv --vo caca my_video

<efraim>make sure it's a low res video though

<socristotle>Hello. Is there any documentation on installing GuixSD on a libreboot machine with Full Disk Encryption?

<lfam>socristotle: I'm not sure exactly. I think that Petter (in this channel) knows about it. There has also been some discussion on the guix-devel mailing list archives.

<lfam>socristotle: There is also this: <https://gitlab.com/rain1/guix-wiki/wikis/Full%20Disk%20Encryption>. I don't know the anything about the quality of the information there

<socristotle>Thank you very much lfam. I'll look into the information to see if it's possible. If not I can always install Parabola.

<lfam>socristotle: I remember hearing that it's possible, but requires some manual steps.

<lfam>Of course, supporting full disk encryption with or without libreboot is something we want for GuixSD

<jmd>What kind of pattern matching applies to guix package -d ?

<lfam>jmd: There's some documentation in the manual, section 3.2 Invoking guix package. Beyond that, I'm in the same boat as you: time to read the code :)

<jmd>lfam: I'll have a look there. Thanks.

<efraim>i normally call it with `guix package -d 1m' for 1 month

<jmd>Anyone looked at getting torbrowser packaged?

<lfam>jmd: Yeah, there's been some discussion here and on guix-devel

<efraim>ng0 has been banging his head against that one for a while now

<jmd>efraim: Why does 1m mean one month. I would have guessed one minute.

<efraim>either ludo clued me in or I checked the code, can't remember

<efraim>its in guix/scripts/package.scm

<efraim>well, i think it is at least

<alezost>efraim: jmd: this string pattern is converted to a time interval by 'string->duration' procedure in (guix ui) module

<alezost>anyway I think a minute would be a too small time interval to be used for --delete-generations

<alezost>ha-ha, but there is "s" for seconds!

<socristotle>Not the right irc channel, but does anyone here own a libreboot x60 tablet?

<sankey>ACTION has an x60 runnin libreboot

<sankey>but it's not a tablet, didn't know those existed

<ngz>Hello. I'm currently struggling with a package definition (at http://paste.lisp.org/+6Y49), which throws the following error: ice-9/eval.scm:386:9: Throw to key `match-error' with args `("match" "no matching pattern" ())'. Any help is appreciated, since the package is otherwise finished.

<bavier>ngz: idk about the match error, but the cmake-build-system already builds within a separate "build" directory

<ngz>Ah. I'm going to get rid of that part then.

<ngz>Thanks.

<bavier>I'm not sure how useful that is to you here, because if you need to override the configure phase, it doesn't expose the location of the source directory

<bavier>but you can usually approximate that with more ".."s

<ngz>I'll add a temporary (display (getcwd)) to see my location, if needed.

<steveeJ>I'm currently stairing at http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/tree/guix/scripts/refresh.scm and I'm trying to find out how the guix refresh command guesses the next version to try to download. any hints?

<ngz>bavier: Oddly I was able to successfully build that package at some point, but I'm not anymore.

<bavier>steveeJ: it uses a combination of the gnu-maintenance module and the various import modules

<steveeJ>bavier: I see. the package has to provide specifics for the updater

<bavier>steveeJ: the packages provide only the source urls, which are examined by the updaters

<ngz>Which module provides %current-target-system? I cannot find it grepping the sources.

<bavier>ngz: it's defined in each derivation I believe

<steveeJ>bavier: I'm very impressed that this is a native feature!

<bavier>steveeJ: :)

<bavier>steveeJ: if you're interested in such things, there's more work to be done

<bavier>e.g. it'd be nice to have a generic fallback updater

<steveeJ>bavier: heuristics?

<bavier>steveeJ: right

<bavier>like, maybe it looks for later versions in the same web directory, or scrapes the project homepage for links, etc

<steveeJ>does guile support concurrency?

<steveeJ>I can probably find out somewhere on the webs ;)

<bavier>steveeJ: in a few ways, yes

<bavier>steveeJ: another project, Spack, has an interesting generic updater that we might be able to borrow some ideas from: https://software.llnl.gov/spack/packaging_guide.html#finding-new-versions

<steveeJ>TLS warning :/

<bavier>steveeJ: oh?

<steveeJ>besides that, another interesting project I've never heard of

<muck>ohman finally got awesome 3.5.9 running \\o/

<paroneayea>damn, ledger is failing to build

<paroneayea>ACTION looks at the hydra interface

<bavier>paroneayea: I noticed it too,

<bavier>but it passes on hydra

<paroneayea>bavier: hm

<paroneayea>. o O (Did boost update recently or something?)

<bavier>well, no, the last build was a failure

<bavier>paroneayea: there's a 1.61.0 version that I'm testing

<paroneayea>bavier: let me know if you get it to work

<paroneayea>I need to check a balance for a project :)

<bavier>paroneayea: so far just one package needs patching

<paroneayea>The following tests FAILED:

<paroneayea> 29 - BaselineTest_opt-time-report (Failed)

<paroneayea>181 - BaselineTest_opt-datetime-format (Failed)

<paroneayea>that's why it's failing for me locally

<paroneayea>but that's with the current version

<paroneayea>I'm guessing a boost change, but that's without looking :)

<bavier>both the last two builds on hydra used the same boost version

<paroneayea>looks like it's something different in date/time stuff

<paroneayea>though maybe in the way it's formatted or something, who know

<paroneayea>s

<bavier>mpfr was updated...

<paroneayea>ah, doing the guixsd "install from usb" thing

<bavier>paroneayea: do you use ledger much?

<paroneayea>throws me back to nostalgia for 2003 me

<paroneayea>bavier: yes-ish

<paroneayea> http://mediagoblin.org/news/financial-transparency.html you can find some of my book-keeping here :)

<bavier>oh, cool

<bavier>I just learned of it recently; wondering whether I should transition away from gnucash

<bavier>but I share finances with others in the family, so a text- and cli-heavy approach might not be appreciated

<paroneayea>bavier: maybe look at beancount

<paroneayea>I hear it's ledger like but has a nice web UI

<paroneayea>same with hledger, but I hear beancount is more friendly

IRC channel logs

2016-08-24.log