<quiliro>i am with the main developer of linux-libre <rain1>I loved the logo too, it is very funny <cesar2>he is asking me about the place where guixsd places the config for loading the modules <cesar2>(18:42:45) lxo: my daughter is thinking of making yet another freedo, looking more like the statue of liberty ;-) <rain1>I don't know the answer for sure <rain1>i think it is stored in the same derivation as the kernel itself <rain1>so it will probably be a place like /gnu/store/...-linux-libre-<version>/modules <cesar2>cool linux-libre main dev lxo is here! <rain1>thanks for your great work making linux libre! <lxo>I guess the important question is whether or not the guix build system changes the firmware search path from the default and, regardless, how it arranges for firmware files to be visible under the search tree <cesar2>lxo: have you met ludovic coutez or mark_weaver ? <rain1>I think it's /gnu/store/...-linux-libre-<version>/lib/modules <lxo>no, no, this line is about modules, and linux[-libre] doesn't even search for modules at runtime (only userland programs do) <rain1>ah sorry I didn't understand <lxo>cesar2's problem has to do with firmware files, that recent versions of linux[-libre] search for in trees such as /lib/firmware. that can be overridden in the .config file <rain1>maybe nothing has been done in guix about firmware yet <rain1>I think you may need to copy the line I linked to <rain1>to make a version that sets firmware <lxo>so, cesar2, try ln -s /.../path/to/open-b43 /lib/firmware, maybe that will work <rain1>I will send an email about this to the mailing list <lxo>AFAICT that line only affects parameters passed to make, and that's NOT the way to change the trees linux searches for firmware at run-time <lxo>those parameters might affect where any built-in firmware files are installed, though <rain1>oh there isn'ta kernel parameter to set firemware directory, similar to set module directory? <cesar2>lxo: ln -s /gnu/store/......-openfwwf-firmware-5.2/ /lib/firmware <lxo>cesar2, isn't there an open-b43 subdir in there? <cesar2>is that correct? (expt for the ...) <lxo>you have to make ucode5.fw visible as /lib/firmware/open-b43/ucode5.fw <lxo>so, no, it's not correct, because it won't make even /lib/firmware/open-b43 visible <rain1>it is an example of someone adding extra firmware to guix <rain1>it does not set any special paths, so I do not think this will work <lxo>quiliro, no, you don't have to run find, just create the symlink named b43-open, or create it as a dir and create the symlinks in there, so that ls -lL /lib/firmware/open-b43/ucode5.fw gets you the intended file <quiliro>lxo: /gnu/store/xcxhd2r2h3iz0721vn6c5wfqkd0r4xc0-openfwwf-firmware-5.2/b43-open <lxo>just make the contents of this b43-open visible under /lib/firmware/b43-open. I don't care how you do it <lxo>just make sure you can see the files that are in b43-open inside /lib/firmware/b43-open <rain1>i remembered this but i couldn't find easily <rain1>you can add custom firmware paths into the system configuration <mark_weaver>lxo: GuixSD builds a directory with firmware and writes the location to /sys/module/firmware_class/parameters/path <quiliro>sudo ln -s /gnu/store/xcxhd2r2h3iz0721vn6c5wfqkd0r4xc0-openfwwf-firmware-5.2 /lib/firmware <rain1>no just add a (firmware ...) line <rain1>like line 14 of this example <rain1>you can point to the b43-open directory with that <rain1>and then after a guix system reconfigure I think it may work! <lxo>quiliro, does that make ucode5.fw visible as /lib/firmware/open-b43/ucode5.fw ? <mark_weaver>lxo: e.g. we build free firmware for ath9k-htc from source code and make it available that way <lxo>mark_weaver, good; any idea of why that's not working for quiliro? <rain1>i meant this line: (firmware (cons* radeon-RS780-firmware-non-free %base-firmware)) <rain1>try something like thiS: (firmware (cons* b34-tools openfwwf-firmware %base-firmware)) <mark_weaver>I would really appreciate it if this channel was not used to promote non-free software <mark_weaver>lxo, quiliro: rain1's suggestion is the right approach, not making symlinks to /lib/firmware <mark_weaver>I doubt that would work anyway, since we tell the kernel to look elsewhere <rain1>what did you mean about promoting non free software? <lxo>mark_weaver, rain1, cool; I had no idea; the only think I knew was that it was totally not in line with guixsd, but I had no idea of what the right thing was <mark_weaver>well, the references to linux-nonfree and radeon-RS780-firmware-non-free <lxo>rain1, I suspect the reference to the radeon blobs <quiliro>i have line (firmware (list openfwwf-firmware)) <rain1>mark_weaver: I didn't recommend they use linux-nonfree or radeon <rain1>I just reference that file because it shows thow to do the thing they want to do <rain1>quiliro: yeah that looks good <rain1>but you may need to import the modules that define b34-tools, openfwwf-firmware at the start of the config.scm file <mark_weaver>rain1: you didn't recommend them, but you posted a link to guix package descriptions for non-free software <rain1>I think that censoring speech about non free software is too restrictive <quiliro>guixsd wants to stay on fsf list of free distros <rain1>I mean I have the privilege of a working guix system with no blobs, but it is sad to me if someone who isn't so lucky can't use guixsd because of that and I want to help them <mark_weaver>requesting that this channel not be used to promote non-free software doesn't qualify as censorship, I don't think, any more than requesting that discussions stay on topic. it's not as if there aren't other channels on which to speak about whatever is on your mind <rain1>you should not care about checkboxs and criteria like the FSF wants, that is a waste - guixsd has its heart in the right place and that is the most important <quiliro>'guix system reconfigure' should be run as root? <mark_weaver>rain1: if you insist on using this channel to help people install nonfree software on Guix, then we are going to have a problem, I'm afraid <mark_weaver>and this is not about checkboxes or what the FSF wants, it's about what I believe is important <rain1>I helped someone set up free firmware and am getting told off and felt unwelcome <quiliro>guix system: error: wrong number of arguments for action 'reconfigure' <quiliro>when running 'guix system reconfigure' <kyamashita>quiliro: You have to supply the configuration file as an argument. <kyamashita>quiliro: "guix system reconfigure /path/to/config-file.scm" <rain1>mark_weaver: yeah we have a problem, I helped someone set up free firmware and am getting told off and felt unwelcome <rain1>do you feel it is important pushing me out of the channel? then I will go <mark_weaver>but this: <rain1> I mean I have the privilege of a working guix system with no blobs, but it is sad to me if someone who isn't so lucky can't use guixsd because of that and I want to help them <mark_weaver>suggests to me that you intend to use this channel in the future to help people install non-free software on Guix. <quiliro>mark_weaver: i think your principle is correct but your word are harsh <quiliro>no...that is not good...kicking someone out is terrible <mark_weaver>perhaps my words are harsh, but so far I don't know how to do better <quiliro>mark_weaver: it is very difficult for people to understand our principle <quiliro>mark_weaver: i think it is better to ask please <quiliro>so it is easier for them to accept the limitations <kyamashita>quiliro: The GNU project does not endorse the use of nonfree software. As such, this official GNU communication channel is supposed to guarantee that any user who is lead here won't be lead to run nonfree software. <mark_weaver>quiliro: I started with "I would really appreciate it if this channel was not used to promote non-free software" <quiliro>kyamashita: i know that....and i am the greatest avdocator for that....ask richard stallman <quiliro>but there are better ways to implement principles than using harsh pressure <mark_weaver>I started with softer words, but then were not well received and it escalated <quiliro>mark_weaver: don't let anyone make you change your good attitude <kyamashita>quiliro: It is unfortunate that nonfree software is required for the use of some hardware, but it is not a failure of GuixSD if one cannot use nonfree software within it. <quiliro>mark_weaver: i know rain1 was not very open about our principles...but being harsh would not convince him <quiliro>kyamashita: i agree as i said...that does not undermine my point <mark_weaver>I would have preferred to convince him, but failing that, I need for this channel to not be used to promote nonfree software <quiliro>courtesy must be first even if the others are not courteous....we have a lot to loose...even if other so not mind loosing their side <mark_weaver>and if I need to be more harsh to accomplish that, then I regretfully need to do so <quiliro>mark_weaver: you will not acheive that because you cannot be on the channel 24/7 <quiliro>i have been there for many years.....pressure does not get compliance <quiliro>even if it takes a lot of work...but is infalible <mark_weaver>I agree that it's better to convince people, but some people will not be convinced anytime soon. in the meantime, it's important for Guix forums to not be used to promote nonfree software, and if I need to be harsh sometimes, then I will <quiliro>everybody has a low self esteem...so lowering it more makes them stuborn <quiliro>mark_weaver: have i been harsh to you? <mark_weaver>quiliro: no, there is wisdom in your words, but those methods are not sufficient to prevent this channel from becoming a place where nonfree software is regularly recommended <quiliro>mark_weaver: believe me......we cannot be 24/7 <quiliro>the best is to convince more people to have our same principles and talk to the offenders to convince them too <mark_weaver>the impossibility of doing a perfect job doesn't mean I shouldn't try <ajgrf>mark_weaver: i think context is important. in this case nobody involved was interested in running or recommending non-free software <quiliro>it is not impossible to be courteous <quiliro>i value you work..and i think it is important that it is effective <quiliro>so i share with you 30 years experience in forums <quiliro>i have never seen a forum where there has been threats convince anyone that they were wrong <mark_weaver>I'm aware that I failed to convince rain1 of anything, but that was not my top priority <quiliro>or call on more activists for the principles that forum tried to uphold <kyamashita>quiliro: For those who only need convincing, there is gnu.org/p <quiliro>mark_weaver: your priority was to keep the channel promoting freedom ... and not only the channel but outside too <quiliro>it is even harder if they are scared off <mark_weaver>it's quite common for people to come here wanting to run GuixSD on their hardware that requires non-free blobs or drivers. <kyamashita>quiliro: Otherwise, the top priority for this channel is avoiding and counteracting the spread of proprietary software as much as it can. This is why the GNU Project was born. <mark_weaver>we could easily fall into a pattern where people here on channel rush to help those people install non-free blobs and drivers <kyamashita>If we go on helping people install and use proprietary software, we are directly working against ourselves. <mark_weaver>I think using the term "violence" to describe what I did is very unfair <quiliro>mark_weaver: that wont happen because they will be convinced instead of scared off <quiliro>mark_weaver: i am sorry... i did not mean to offend <quiliro>i just want to make a point about the escalation <quiliro>that at first things are just opinions and then adjectives and then harsh words and then it even gets physical <mark_weaver>quiliro: I appreciate your perspective, and your wish to improve communication. <mark_weaver>quiliro: it's possible that if I had used different words, it would have had a better outcome <quiliro>because i made many mistakes about this before in my country <mark_weaver>ah, I have a good friend who recently fled from ecuador <quiliro>mark_weaver: yes ...absolutely...you have very nice words...just use patience <mark_weaver>the father of the family worked on a report on sexual trafficking, which implicated a certain general <mark_weaver>and someone went to their apartment and essentially told them that if they didn't leave they would be killed <quiliro>of course that can happen...in any country ...if there is an investigation like that <quiliro>mark_weaver: if you ask your friend ...i would be thankful....because i am an activist <mark_weaver>that's true, although I've heard from then very unsettling things about what is going on in ecuador <mark_weaver>I don't see them very often, but the next time I do I will ask <quiliro>i think ecuador has become more important because the government has gotten indebted and invested a lot of money and wasted it too <quiliro>and also the good thing about julian assange and the bad things about the villagers that are being harrassed for opposing mining <mark_weaver>anyway, I have to go afk for a while. happy hacking! <quiliro>but going back to my problem...it did not work guix system reconfigure config.scm <anthk_>mark_weaver, thanks for your help, but in the end I politely asked txtmap's coder to release a 64 bit compatible source <quiliro>Installation finished. No error reported. .....will reboot <ajgrf>quiliro: woohoo! i know i wasn't involved but it seems no one who was helping you is around right now. congrats <quiliro>mark_weaver: i am sorry having been up on your face.....i was doing the same as i suggested you not to do <quiliro>sneek: tell mark_weaver: i am sorry having been up on your face.....i was doing the same as i suggested you not to do....i apologize <sneek>mark_weaver:, quiliro says: i am sorry having been up on your face.....i was doing the same as i suggested you not to do....i apologize <quiliro>b43-phy0 ERROR: Firmware file "b43-open/ucode5.fw" not found <NhanH>I'm trying to look for X config or whatever is responsible for setting up layout of multiple monitors (i.e. Which is left and which is right). Any suggestion on what I should be looking at? <NhanH>I saw xorg-configuration-procedure but it doesn't have anything on layout <iyzsong>NhanH: i use the xrandr (put in ~/.xsession) command to do that. <NhanH>Okay thanks. I just wanted to figure out if there is a more idiomatic way to do it <NhanH>Just to double check, it's just a normal xrandr then start your wm of choice,? <iyzsong>yes, there are many ways.. and i prefer xrandr (or the tool in gnome or xfce) than modify the static xorg config. <NhanH>Is there a way to search for guix package similar to "apt-cache search"? I've been using the site so far to find things <NhanH>And for some reason, "emacs" is not a package when I tried to install it (got unbound variable error" <iyzsong>oh, maybe the code is broken? i don't have access to my machine now (on phone). <NhanH>I checked my config file, it shouldn't be the problem. Anyway I could check to see if it's the package itself being the issue or not? <iyzsong>may run 'guix package --show=emacs'? i can't guess what can be wrong :o ***Korhoset is now known as Twey_the_Bobbeja
<NhanH>hmm, so if I'm trying to install the package with `guix package -i emacs`, then it works. But putting it into the config file and trying reconfigure throws an unbound variable error <NhanH>it does not happen to all packages, I can get several of them to install from the config file <NhanH>but for several others, I can't <NhanH>I must have misunderstood something <NhanH>specifically I was trying to use the OS-wide config file, not the guix package manifest file <robsyme>Hi all. I'm packaging up a piece of code with MIT licence, but was suprised to see that MIT wasn't in licences.scm. Am I missing something? <alezost>NhanH: you get "unbound variable" error, because you also need to use a module where a package comes from. So for emacs, you need to use (gnu packages emacs) <NhanH>alezost: thanks, I figured out the reason :-) <ng0>morning guix. talking to a friend about GnuPG 2.1 and libgcrypt 1.7, for newer pubkeys I use. With guix as a package manager and an existing system installation of GnuPG-2.0 (or 1, where ever slack currently is) and an older libgcrypt, I guess installing both newer ones with Guix in the daily user profile it would colide with system installation, am I right? <ng0>guix is unaware of the system, but user is aware of both, system and guix <civodul>ng0: by setting PATH, you get to choose between the binaries in ~/.guix-profile/bin and those in /usr/bin <ng0>oh. okay, i understand it <ng0>just to check, we have libgcrypt 1.7? I'm currently on gentoo without guix. <ng0>could've greped the sources though.. ah <ng0>is it intended for a core update? I remember something about 1.7 <ng0>right it was me who wrote it <ng0>just checked the src dir :D <rekado>I wonder what to do about patch/commit signing. I often commit on my workstation at work, not using my personal machine. <rekado>I don't have my GPG keys on my office machine. <rekado>and I don't want to have them there, because I could not possibly keep them safe there. <civodul>anyone know why PCRE depends on readline? <rekado>petter: thanks. I read this a long time ago, will reread. <ng0>I read things about patch/commit signing in the past which made me not want to do it. If a project absolutely requires it, I would possibly just create a new, unrelated, signing-only keypair <ng0>civodul: related to the gnunet patches I'm still on: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=579580 is what I am currently working on, would something like this work for guix too? We could pull from distfiles.gentoo.org once they are there as I don't want this load on our/my location. --> something like this: create a snapshot which 0.10.1_p$date is build from instead of just -9999 (svn:most-recent checkout). <ng0>Grothoff also mentioned what's needed for regular snapshots, so I'll work on that if possible, but the current solution is what I am doing for Gentoo. <ng0>the files which are pulled from my serverlocation are checksumed, signed, checksums signed, and a gentoo dev will check them before they are merged into distfiles. <ng0>ACTION afk for a while flashing laptops <civodul>ng0: what part of the Gentoo bug report are you referring to? <ng0>the part where I am providing the snapshot of gnunet{-gtk}, asking if this would be an acceptable solution for guix too (as an addition or replacement for the current work in progress -svn), else I would just stick to simply svn <ng0>this is just a temporary workaround until either gnunet has regular releases or the next release happens. <civodul>right, as discussed on the list, it can only be temporary <jmd>Guix hasn't packaged "sl". How sad! <civodul>jmd: i think that would make me mad :-) <jmd>taylan: Widely regarded to be the most useless package in Debian. <z0d>ACTION is installing Guix <z0d>how much data is downloaded during installation? <taylan>z0d: I don't know but I would roughly guess "a lot" ;) do you have a limit? <civodul>GuixSD downloads "a lot", but Guix downloads just what you need <taylan>(ah, I assumed GuixSD was meant) <z0d>yes and I used the desktop template <z0d>I don't have a limit, just wondering <mck>is it safe to delete old system generations? <mck>and would the command be something like the following: guix package -p /var/guix/profiles/system -d 1..90 <rekado>mck: yes, it is safe. There currently is no command for deleting these generations. You can delete the links manually, though. <mck>rekado: I suppose it's just deleting the links under /var/guix/profiles? <rekado>mck: I don't have my GuixSD machine with me right now. I don't remember where the links for system profile generations are. Sorry! <b11111000000>Guys, how to add non-free wifi firmware to GuixSD stick? I mount it and see gnu folder, how to modify it to use wifi with my T420 (Intel 1000 card) ? <bavier>b11111000000: you'll have to package the firmware yourself, then regenerate the usb image <bavier>if its the image you want; if you're just looking to install guixsd, do it over ethernet first, then add the firmware later <b11111000000>bavier: thanks, and how to do this, where I can read about regeneration of usb image? Yes, I want to install guix, instead of Arch on workstation, but there is no any lan-cord here, unfortunately <wingo>b11111000000: you will be happiest if you buy a little usb wifi that is supported -- not sure where the links to do this are <wingo>you won't be able to install guix without an ethernet cord i don't think <wingo>i guess you could do it but it would take a while :) <wingo>b11111000000: if you use a wifi card with free firmware it means you can just use linux-libre from guix <wingo>otherwise you'll have to keep building your own kernel and firmware, as you upgrade <wingo>clearly because i hate freedom etc <wingo>but it's definitely more free to have a proper free wifi adapter <wingo>and it makes "airplane mode" really easy :) <wingo>many new laptops don't have hardware switches any more ;) <wingo>whereas you can just remove the adapter <wingo>and you keep the advantage of just using guix's kernels etc <b11111000000>buyng something is a pain a litle, and take time - there is weekend for experiments, but no lan cable, eh <z0d>newer airplanes have WiFi on them <-: <rekado>b11111000000: we recommend using a USB wifi device that works with free software alone. <rekado>b11111000000: you should not ever modify the contents of the /gnu directory. <rekado>it is managed by the guix-daemon. <rekado>if you are using GuixSD all changes to the system itself should be done via the configuration file, which is documented in the manual. To instantiate a new version of your configuration file use "guix system reconfigure /path/to/config.scm" <rekado>I used custom kernel patches (the realtime patches on top of linux-libre) by creating my own kernel package variant and using that in the configuration file. <rekado>on every boot the system is "checked out" from the store, so changes to /etc or /lib will be lost on a reboot. ***vasile_ is now known as vasile
<b11111000000>rekado: wingo: is there some way to distribute non-free kernel (from Arch, for example) as alternative branch of "not so free guix" ? To reduce complexity of things for newbies like me? <wingo>b11111000000: sure there are ways -- host your own hydra, for example, host a git repo with code -- but you have to be willing to support it and guix isn't really about that ***doppioslash_ is now known as doppioslash
<rekado>b11111000000: you can use third-party package modules by adding their root directory to GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH. The Guix project won't endorse or recommend the use of such efforts. <rekado>b11111000000: I also encourage you not to go down this road and replace hardware instead. <z0d>installation failed at grub. can I continue somehow? <z0d>after I manually fix grub that is <b11111000000>rekado: yes, I want to buy stallmann-book for my daugther ) but not so many people like that sort of things <z0d>probably the problem is that I forgot to make the partition bootable <rekado>b11111000000: the book or replacing hardware? :) <z0d>(I'm using a GPT partition btw) <amonk>can guixsd be installed to btrfs? the install docs have this footnote... "Currently GuixSD pretty much assumes an ext4 file system. In particular, code that reads partition UUIDs and labels only works with ext4. This will be fixed in the future." ...should be able to use btrfs if one uses device names rather that uuids, right? <z0d>error: will not proceed with blocklists <z0d>and the warning before: GRUB can only be installed in this setup by using blocklists <rekado>z0d: sorry, I'm not familiar with this. <rekado>amonk: AFAIK installing to btrfs does not currently work, but I haven't tried it recently. <z0d>rekado: do you know if I can continue installation manually? <z0d>it's probably one of the last steps <amonk>rekado: hmm. okay. thanks. maybe i'll see how it goes. ;) <z0d>should I use a DOS partition type? ***katco` is now known as katco
<z0d>whatever. I just restart the installation procedure <civodul>z0d: sorry; i guess you can use either a DOS partition table, or GPT, whichever you prefer :-) <z0d>just need to set the boot flag <z0d>I wish we could get rid of this DOS legacy stuff from the 80's <-: <bavier>do we not have php packaged because someone hasn't done it yet? or are there other roadblocks? <civodul>i'm pretty sure someone tried, or maybe it's in some personal repo somewhere in the intertubes <civodul>i vaguely recall seeing something like that <bavier>oh, maybe I'll look around some more <davexunit>ACTION sees that it's written in python. oh... <kyamashita>Does anyone else get an internal compiler error when building TuxGuitar? <kyamashita>It seems to have something to do with Java's SWT. <mark_weaver>civodul: I tried to update my system to gnome-updates yesterday, and it failed because the totem build failed with an error that looks deterministic to me <mark_weaver>I'm very busy with my own server upgrade at the moment, so can't talk much more now <rekado>kyamashita: yes, I also get a compiler error with Tuxguitar. <rekado>I've been trying to update Tuxguitar and switch to using the IcedTea package instead of GCJ, but it's not so simple. <lfam>While building Guix from source: gnu/build/file-systems.scm:436:7: warning: possibly unbound variable `reboot' <cpjjl>Hello, on my newly installed GuixSD, xrandr only display 1024x768 resolution. <cpjjl>does anyone know what driver to add, so I get the usual ones? <roelj>cpjjl: Well, what graphics card do you have? <cpjjl>Mobility Radeon HD 5430/5450/5470 <cpjjl>(hmm I didn’t try vesa… lets try it) <roelj>cpjjl: You could also try xf86-video-ati <cpjjl>though I’m not sure it was useful <roelj>Sorry, I don't know much about graphics cards anyway. <cpjjl>well, the first thing I did was looking at the archlinux wiki :) <roelj>Maybe the Xorg config file.. <cpjjl>yes. Although last time I edited them, it didn’t end well. But it was years ago… <roelj>Oh I know all about those times you end up with a low resolution and no X at all <cpjjl>but at the time I didn’t have another computer to find a recovery method on the internet… ***tardyp_ is now known as tardyp
<daviid>is there a utox package for guix? <daviid>civodul: utox is a tox client, tox is the future of free s/w p2p 'àla whatsapp' <daviid>civodul: see tox.chat on duckduckgo... <civodul>well, a package would be welcome :-) <civodul>davexunit toyed with toxcore at some point, maybe they have a package around? :-) <daviid>civodul: i have not install guix yet, i was curious ***boegel|quassel is now known as boegel
<pizzaiolo>daviid: I tried compiling utox but had no luck ): <daviid>pizzaiolo: oh by the way, there has been a release og GNU Foliot, which fixes a serious bug, but info-gnu blocked the annouce because it is beta version, despite they let the alpha version go through <daviid>pizzaiolo: saying this because I see you published a reddit /r/gnu ... it would be nice to inform 'potential' gnu user... thanks! <civodul>ACTION has never seen an announcement blocked on info-gnu <daviid>civodul: the moderator wrote to me <daviid>because I resent the mail, since I did not received an bounced... <daviid>than I answered then maybe they should let it go through sibce the alha release went through, then he answered that he needs to talk to 'higher salary people...' [he did wrote that ] <daviid>moral, alpha has a serious bug, i fixed it, it now is beta, but except guilers, nobody knows it ***Digitteknohippie is now known as Digit
<daviid>pizzaiolo: I' talking to the utox develoer on #tox, if that can hel