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2016-04-20.log
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<wingo>ACTION now has port buffers in scheme, whee <wingo>but it is quarter to one and time to zzz <rekado>now that I'm using the mirror again I get substitutes for icedtea <rekado>@ substituter-succeeded /gnu/store/1qk1ckhd84rdghadj2dbmp8w3dsag3dn-icedtea-2.6.5 <rekado>@ build-started /gnu/store/x4iqch8zv1mawhrqmiz4hhw6b92aqfgp-icedtea-2.6.5.drv <rekado>that's with "guix build icedtea@2.6" <jluttine>why guixsd uses shepherd/dmd instead of systemd? <alezost>jluttine: why would it use systemd instead of shepherd? :-) <alezost>jluttine: shepherd is written in guile, and we love guile <jluttine>alezost: ok :) i just have the impression that systemd is mature, very widely used and supported, so kind of "why to reinvent the wheel" instead of using a good(?) existing tool <jluttine>shepherd is actually one of my main concerns now that i'm thinking about trying guixsd <jluttine>but i don't have any deep understanding about shepherd nor systemd, just wondering <alezost>jluttine: many people don't think that systemd is a good wheel :-) <alezost>It's not the reason though: we just try to use guile as much as possible, that's it <wingo>i think the reason is somewhat different afaiu? like, yes, guile preference is part of it, but there's the whole staging/static linking thing; we have to generate the equivalent of "service" files all the time <wingo>taht are linked directly to /gnu/store/blablabla-.../ and that having the service definitions be scheme code is pretty convenient in that regard <alezost>yeah, I meant that using a real programming language (especially guile code which suits the other Guix parts) is much more convenient than using "dumb" systemd services <jluttine>i'm new to this.. can someone describe a bit the differences between nixos and guixsd, and what are the advantages of guixsd? nixos uses systemd+nix, guixsd uses shepherd+guix, that much i know. <jluttine>i'm trying to understand why to choose guixsd using shepherd instead of nixos using mature systemd <jluttine>(i'm sorry if i sound harsh, don't mean to, just trying to understand these distros as i just discovered them yesterday) <alezost>for me the main advantage of Guix(SD) is that I can use a general-purpose programming language in my various guix-related configurations <alezost>And the fact that this language is from the lisp family adds many pluses to this <alezost>I don't need matureness, I want a possibility to program my configurations, and with Guix and Shepherd I have this possibility. <alezost>ACTION uses emacs, stumpwm and conkeror for the same reason <ng0>jluttine: also guix uses still parts of the nix daemon (iirc), some of us have given talks on this over the last years :) <rekado>I have a problem with Guix on Fedora. I do "guix environment guix" to be able to reconfigure and run "make". <rekado>configure: error: Package requirements (guile-2.0 >= 2.0.7) were not met: <rekado>the PKG_CONFIG_PATH contains /gnu/store/yka5zjz9b0rd2ki1lqsbgl7x17z0ir5p-profile/lib/pkgconfig which holds guile-2.0.pc <rekado>ah, problem was that the configure script cached an old value for PKG_CONFIG_PATH from the last run, which is long ago. Since then the old PKG_CONFIG_PATH had already been garbage collected. <rekado>whenever I update Guix from my git checkout (on Fedora) or garbage collect stuff things break :( <rekado>now I cannot use any guix command because it says:: substitute: guix/ui.scm:1196:6: In procedure module-lookup: Unbound variable: make-session <rekado>although GUILE_LOAD_PATH points to my profile which contains the Guile bindings for gnutls. <rekado>these are the steps to frustration: use a git checkout, "guix environment guix" to configure and build, then fetch from git at a later point, garbage collect. <rekado>bleh, GUILE_LOAD_PATH had to be set for the daemon... <ng0>i wonder if that's what's missing for my almost complete gentoo ebuild for guix <ng0>on guix pull, download happens but as soon as builders want to build they quit. <rekado>civodul: yes. I switched to root to run the guix-daemon and forgot to set GUILE_LOAD_PATH to hold the directory containing the gnutls bindings. <rekado>ACTION updates all R packages now <rekado>ng0: is anyone else in the build users group? <ng0>only 10 build users. <ng0>afaik, i have some logs, but i'm currently not working on that computer or even ebuild <ng0>and -bin version fails, while source of guix works but gets scattered all across (logical) gentoo locations <ng0>origin git://cheettyiapsyciew.onion/youbroketheinternet-overlay <- readable there in sys-apps/guix/, but it's just a work in progress version, the user creation process should be clear without understanding ebuild dialect though. <ng0>but user creation might be broken <ng0>i made some new experiences with cmpleting gentoo gnunet <ng0>it's likely that it is broken. <ng0>ACTION hopes that gogs can be setup in a way that registrations are locked. <fps>hmm, the git package lists: <fps>(native-search-paths ....) <fps>[re: the ML post about https clone failures] <fps>shouldn't guix report this env var after adding the package to the user's profile? <koosha>How long do you think releasing stable guixsd lasts ? <ng0>idk.. there's a roadmap somewhere <rekado>I'm using it on three machines already. I don't know what "stable" means in this context. <koosha>Well , in the website is written that the version is beta . I said it for that . Of course I think I't good enough now <rekado>there are a couple of issues with GuixSD, e.g. not as many packages as on Debian, some problems with applications using local caches, etc, but nothing really major, in my opinion. <df_>personally I wouldn't yet recommend it to a friend for regular use unless they were the sort of person that can handle a bit of flux (eg runs debian sid) <ng0>for my personal use i need to contribute more to recommend it and only recommend it to people who want to get involved. <ng0>but it's usable enough to be annoyed by any other system after some months of guixsd <ng0>like currently wasting time with (new) server configuration where i would just want to run some guix system configure and done.. <rekado>I have made similar experiences. <rekado>had to set up a couple of workstations and I had to use puppet for configuration management. <rekado>then playing around with the workstations and trying different software combinations would leave the systems in an inconsistent state <rekado>installing and then removing software is not the same as having never installed the software in the first place, but with Guix this is so. <rekado>very annoying to have to clean up after a configuration management system and package manager. <ng0>btw.. we have no golang packaged, do we? i am installing gogs (go git server application). <ng0>i just noticed this as i have to run it from source <bavier>ng0: some people have been working on gccgo <ng0>ah, weekly checkup time if rust released the release i am waiting for <rekado>afair they were stuck at the final linking stage <ng0>this means testing time, this should work for guix finally <ng0>their commit messages :D "tibet does not have a space program, Peru does. <koosha>ng0 : Yes , currently I use debian with i3 , So It's proper enough for me <koosha>It will be almost my first technical encounter <ng0>oh... does configure/make automatically detect new files (rust.scm) or do i need to add it somewhere to get processed? <rekado>the install phase for texlive-texmf takes forever on this NFS share :( <bavier>ng0: new modules should be added in gnu-system.am <rekado>I'm afraid even the adjusted max silent timeout is not enough :-/ <ng0>ah, that too. okay, i'll add it once it builds <ng0>if i only had bookmarked or written down the last problem.. i need to run into it again <ng0>something llvm which is supposed to be fixed now <koosha>Why doesn't gnu use herd as the kernel for guixsd ? <koosha>Can you count some herd's powers ? <rekado>whee, finally got past the install phase! <rekado>I wished there was something we could do to speed up NFS here. <kyamashita>I just need a few more tweaks to get Red Eclipse packaged for Guix. The binary builds fine, but the data files need to be extracted in a very particular manner. <kyamashita>I was planning on using tar's "--transform" option to run a regex on the data files as they were extracted to get the folder names right, but I didn't know if Guix had a procedure for things like that. <bavier>kyamashita: I think using tar's --transform would be find <kyamashita>Otherwise, the string-append method complains that some of the strings that I give it are not the right format... <kyamashita>bavier: string-append doesn't like me passing in things like "'s/". <kyamashita>I've run the regex on the tar files manually and it works fine. <kyamashita>I just need string-append to accept my arguments. <bavier>kyamashita: could you give an example of your string-append invocation? <kyamashita>bavier: Seems simple enough, but for whatever reason it wouldn't accept it. <bavier>(let ((name "foo") (version "0.2.6")) (string-append "'s/" name "-" version "/" name "/'")) <bavier>kyamashita: it your 'version' a string or a number? <bavier>kyamashita: ok, string-append would complain if it were a scheme number; just wanted to rule that out <kyamashita>Let me run this again, I'll copy the exact error. <kyamashita>Also, I'll need a way to supply the binary with some environment variables or launch it from within the /gnu/store/[hash]/ folder <kyamashita>An strace on the binary tells me that's where it expects the config and data directories to be. <kyamashita>bavier: Unknown file... I don't know why it would say that, though. Let me paste the current recipe. <efraim>could version be undefined in the map function? <efraim>also you can add ".tar.gz" to redeclipe's file-name <ng0>i almost got it. just need to fix one thing and i can submit rust.scm <ng0>one step closer towards having panopticon in guix :) <kyamashita>efraim: When a map function is declared, can you access outside variables from within its scope? <ng0>wierd... configure: error: Option '--disable-codegen-tests' is not recognized but this was added :/ <kyamashita>efraim: I'll try it using "-1.5.3" instead of "-" version. <ng0>maybe i'm packaging the wrong rust. <koosha>I have the guixsd version 0.8.3 . Does it matter ? <davexunit>you will not receive any binaries for that release. it is ancient. <paroneayea>rekado: texlive size is a real problem in guixsd right now :( <koosha>o I should install the lastest version ? <paroneayea>hopefully it can be teased apart. My attempt to define things using texlive-minimal in python deps was unsuccessful. <bavier>paroneayea: debian has a lot of resources and documentation regarding their packaging of texlive that we can probably make good use of <ng0>wat. even the tarball not of rustc but rust from github and not rust-lang website fails at the option <ng0>release 1.8.0 should have the described commit (at XXX:) inside. <ng0>still in master, not 1.8.0 <civodul>challenge of the day (or days to come...): come up with a GuixSD config that runs Savane <civodul>first milestone: git ssh access and cgit w/ nginx <ng0>in the case of rust. could i use a git snapshot, or just wait for it to arrive in stable release ball? <civodul>ng0: if you're missing a single patch that's already in their repo, and if it fixes a critical issue, it's ok to take it <ng0>you mean take the single patch, or the entire repo at that commit? <ng0>is there something at github where you can just save the patch? i don't see it <bavier>civodul: what's the interest in Savane? <ng0>no... i think i have to patch that manualy. <civodul>bavier: Savannah needs love, so if we could have GuixSD powering it :-) <civodul>of course we should start by using it on our own machines <bavier>civodul: is Savane what runs savannah.gnu.org? it appears to be a different fork. <bavier>yes, guixsd running it would be nice <ng0>there's also the more recent fork which runs gna.org and some other site <kyamashita>tar is reporting a valid transform expression as invalid. There must be a character that I'm not seeing. <kyamashita>Red Eclipse runs when launched from its /gnu/store directory!! <kyamashita>bavier: So how can I get it to run without having to sit in its directory? <bavier>kyamashita: is there any build parameter to set the configuration directory?