<Acou_Bass>hey guys, has anyone used windowmaker in guixSD? i see its in the repos <rain1>i go into it by accident some times.. <Acou_Bass>ratpoison seems to be default but not wmaker, hmm <Acou_Bass>reason i ask is i installed it in my desktop.scm but it doesnt appear in SLIM XD <rain1>If you try logging in as root it might be windowmaker <rain1>ratpoison is really annoying <Acou_Bass>slim as in the GUI login page when you boot it up <rain1>I had to look up on a second computer how to exit it <Acou_Bass>i like ratpoison actually hehe, just wanna try wmaker too :D <rain1>im not sure how to get it in the menu, I am going to look into getting dwm set up <rain1>so I'll try to work this out <Acou_Bass>i mean, in non-guix distros the slim config is in /etc/slim.conf and it can also read from your .xinitrc to boot up whatevers in there <rain1>theres 3 patch files mentioned, I guess they are the important thing <rain1>(im trying to find them right now) <rain1>oh nothing of interest in them <Acou_Bass>where do guix packages usually store their configs? <rain1>every guix package has its own place in the gnu store, which you can find by using 'guix build <package>' <rain1>unless its something user editable it will be in there <Acou_Bass>weirdly in the 'sessions' line it has xfce4, icewm, wmaker, and blackbox <rain1>I'm having a look at the service def. here, just trying to understand it - might be relevant <civodul>Acou_Bass: available sessions are determined by looking at .desktop files <Acou_Bass>civodul: yeah i know thats how slim usually does it... but where would these .desktop files go? <rain1>oh so it's as easy as creating my own .desktop file in /run/current-system/profile/share/xsessions! <rain1>Or I suppose my packages /share/xsessions/ <Acou_Bass>so the windowmaker package needs to have that .desktop file in it? <rain1>I have a slightly weird use case though, the program I want to use -- you have to edit the source code to configure it <Acou_Bass>yeah youre opening a whole new kettle o' fish with DWM to me hehe <rain1>would I be able to install it still if I make a package.scm file? <Acou_Bass>i suppose i need to learn the ins and outs of creating guix packages, windowmaker can be my first project <Basstard`>So what are the reasons for having the hash before name of the package? <rain1>Is there any way to use local source code for a package <rain1>but i want to define a package based on files on my own computer -- is there any way? <rain1>mybe i could run a git server and point the package to local host.. sort of a hack <rain1>$24 = #<derivation /gnu/store/ksi6kiihb260hr6yihhk15gh6k4lzbjk-sh.drv => /gnu/store/8gll48xch4sn5xlkn4pw2h50h7wy4qps-sh 3383b90> <rain1>I have got this with gexp->derivation <rain1>but how do you get it to make the other one <ng_>ETA: 236h woo \\o/ home connections which suck, woo. <rain1>I'm having a struggle wit this: include/X11/Xft/Xft.h:39:22: fatal error: ft2build.h: No such file or directory: #include <ft2build.h> <rain1>but I have given my package freetype as an input and I see that it has that header file <rain1>I also tried adding pkgconfig but it didn't help <rain1>How can I properly use libxft? <lin__>I've successfully ported Arrayfire to GNU Guix. <lin__>Builds the OpenCL, CPU and Unified back-ends only <lin__>CUDA build has been disabled as it would become undistributable, and also violate the GPL licenses. <lin__>The OpenCL back-end is based on the ocl-icd (The open source OpenCL Installable Client Driver) and on the reference Khronos OpenCL headers. ***Acou_Bass is now known as Acou_Bass_AWAY
***Acou_Bass_AWAY is now known as Acou_Bass
***Basstard1 is now known as Basstard`
***nckx is now known as nckx|offline
<jmarciano>There is patent SIFT that cannot be used without permission. And if there is any problem with it, in regards to free software and 4 freedoms, it shall not be included in GuixSD. Including that other licenses and references to other software have to be carefully verified as well. <kristofer>am I using (mlet* %store-monad ...) properly? <dannym>Hmm... how do I install both python2 and python3 in my user profile? <sneek>Welcome back rain1, you have 1 message. <sneek>rain1, alezost says: yes, it's possible to use a local store like this: (origin (method url-fetch) (uri "file:///tmp/foo") ...) <rain1>I got dwm working with a similar technique <rain1>I'll make a short info page about it because it was a bit hacky <rain1>darn.. I was trying for 3 days to install guixsd with encrypted root but now that it finally got through the process it says 'installation is impossible' because of GRUB <jmarciano>rain1: nothing is impossible. Go ahead and solve the problem. At least I will pay you 15 dollars once sold, because I need that feature too. <jmarciano>I need: encrypted swap, /home /tmp, this is a must. <ng_>jmarciano: Jookia knows more about this <rain1>jmarciano, I think people know how to do this (people not me), I was just trying to get it working so I could put easy to follow instructions about it up <rain1>I'll read a bit more about LUKS in case I'm doing something silly <Jookia>yeah i have some patches for that <ng_>there are instructions up on it and people working on it. if you have core/libreboot you can work around it. <ng_>basically you can have grub2 in coreboot as payload and then load somehow a patched (not yet in master) grub of guix <fhmgufs>Hi! How is the guix emacs frontend getting the list of packages i. e. how can I get the list of packages using guile? <jmarciano>rain1: I remember when cryptsetup arrived, nobody had descriptions, no distribution had it, and I wrote the first public description and made my own setup, later they changed instructions and made manual pages and so on. So it does not matter, you can get it, because you have intention and you push it. <Jookia>fwiw i have a LUKS+LVM encryption setup on my laptop <Jookia>though if you don't have libreboot i don't know how to set up GRUB to work with encryption <ng_>I hope to either get coreboot + patches build here or get an beaglebone soon so I can test your patches. currently I can't risk potential system damaging things and not run anything other than guixsd due to what I described yesterday ;D <ng_>if archive.org seeds torrents, why does the seed disappear at 99%. a kingdom for a working download system :/ <rain1>does anyone know a solution for this? <rain1>error: boost/shared_ptr.hpp: No such file or directory <rain1>I already added boost as an input to this package <rain1>sorry made a mistake, I had added it to a dependency only <amz3>I'd like to ask question about guix monadic procedure, can someone explain me something about it? What makes it monadic for instance? <kristofer>I just ran system reconfigure, now I've lost the ability to sudo shutdown <kristofer>sudo reboot says /var/run/dmd/socket not found - I have /var/run/shepherd/socket though <rain1>libreplanet keynote just started <rain1>davexuni`, I really enjoyed the guix talk yesterday! <rain1>yeah I watched it on the website <davexuni`>I was under the impression that the stream didn't work <phant0mas>davexunit: I tried to watch the stream as well, but it didn't work... <davexunit>phant0mas: okay, so you and my mom had the same experience <davexunit>I think I'll be able to send her the recording later <phant0mas>I still can't believe that the guys at the guile devroom at fosdem lost all the talks before 12, including mine :-( <ng_>thx for the streamlink <ng_>sound is so low volume though <rain1>I want to watch 2 talks in the block <rain1>Beyond reproducible builds - Holger Levsen, Debian <ng_>what is boston timezone? <ng_>sure, but I was looking at like 15:30, and then I thought, hey they possibly can't adopt timezones via script^^ <rain1>nice would be if it colored the current block <ng_>setting up debian gave me for the first time another choice in my timezone then berlin.. weird. ***Steap_ is now known as lalalla
<davexunit>interesting bit of information about how Debian tests reproducible builds: they re-run builds with random modifications to timezone, language, umask, etc. <davexunit>I think we care more about hacking build containers to make more things constant <Jookia>davexunit: I think that's more to help upstream, though Guix being useful as an evironment for development might have use for this in helping upstreams <joeyh_>trying to run the usb installer in virtualbox. It's booted, but getting a weird error from dhclient enp0s3 <Jookia>I've heard many people with virtualbox networking issues. Have you tired QEMU? <joeyh_>weird, I've used plenty of linux in virtualbox w/o network problems <ng_>Jookia: are there slides? it's self explanatory the talk, but slides would be great. <joeyh_>could be something about the network here at MIT <davexunit>darn, I wish I had experience installing GuixSD in a VM... <ng_>ACTION emerges virtualbox <janneke>davexunit: what do you need beyond guix system vm FILE.scm? <davexunit>joeyh_ is booting the provided installation media using a virtual machine system <joeyh_>well debian works in kvm here, so not the network. Must be something in the guix kernel? <davexunit>joeyh_: that sounds likely. I'm surprised that a network device appears available but then doesn't work <davexunit>my initial reaction to similar problems is to think that a kernel module is missing <joeyh_>the device does only appear in ifconfig -a, not ifconfig <ng_>oh right I forgot that virtualbox takes long time to build, sorry I can't help yet <ng_>well long = less than 12 minutes <joeyh_>ok, here's the deal: It didn't work until I ran ifconfig ens3 up <davexunit>joeyh_: oh darn! I should've mentioned that... <joeyh_>hmm, IIRC dhclient normally ups the interface for you <joeyh_>dunno, been a few years since I ran it manually <joeyh_>ah, I see your docs do mention this, problem is they didn't mention virtualbox so I had googled a different howto <ng_>should we mention exceptions like VB? <rain1>I have got guixsd working in virtualbox with internet <rain1>i don't know if i screnshotting the settingsn or something could be helpful? I would have to do it later though <ng_>or like a generic description "there are applications like for example virtualbox which need this and that to run guixsd <davexunit>joeyh_: we don't mention virtualbox because of the freedom issues, unfortunately. <rain1>what freedom issues with virtualbox? <joeyh_>well, it doesn't mention kvm either <joeyh_>rain1: it contains some nonfree bios stuff <ng_>davexunit: we don't have to advocate them to point out that there are technical issues which can be solved? Of course this is somehow enabling people to use it with virtualbox, but it would fix to provide an solution to possible questions to cover <ng_>which don't have to be focused on virtualbox but more like "generic software" <Jookia>if you use EFI the nonfree bios can be removed from virtualbox <rain1>I didn't know it had a nonfree bios, I thought it was free software <Jookia>qemu has free BIOS, virtualbox doesn't <joeyh_>virtualbox's bios is free, but the compiler is not <Jookia>qemu uses seaBIOS which libreboot also uses in some cases <rain1>I wonder why they bother having a non free bios <Jookia>sorry, yeah. the compiler is nonfree <rain1>so the source code is free, and the bios is - but the tool to build the bios is not <Jookia>yes. they provide assembly that you can compile but that's from C <rain1>maybe we should ask them to release it <rain1>they probably wouldn't but it could be nice if they did <davexunit>they do not believe that their license is nonfree <Jookia>it'd be nice to have the BIOS option build-time optional so just EFI can be built and used <jmd>Jookia: Except that hardly any hardware works on EFI without lots of hassles. <jmd>Well I suppose I meant that hardly any hardware comes with firmware which works. <rain1>I'm watching the libreplanet talk about Ring now <davexunit>I'm trying to find ring release tarballs to package it <rain1>I tried to package this for guix, a lot of packages done but it did not build itself <rain1>I sent a message to their ML about the compile error <jmd>rain1: That should be interesting. I will look at it when the videos are available. <ng_>what am I missing when I can't lock the screen in GNOME? or is it something we need to extend in gnome? <rain1>davexunit, oh do you want my work on this so far? <joeyh_>hmm, surprised the installer is neeing to build dbus from source <rain1>davexunit, do you want my work on packing ring so far? It could probably save you half an hour <rain1>yeah I pointed to the newest git commit <rain1>but it may need to be an earlier commit, or they might do a bugfix <rain1>nothing other than that compile error <rain1>which is when building the ring demon <rain1>lot of few dependencies :D hope it is useful <jmd>rain1: As I understand it, ring comprises a number of packages, it is not just one package. <rain1>yeah, this should be called ring-demon <rain1>but I called it 'ring', It should be changed <rain1>and then hopefully we can get the client-lib and gnome-client <rain1>I'm really keen to get a working 'phone' program <rain1>jitsi and ekiga and empathy do not work <davexunit>rain1: well you've made some real nice progress towards this! <Acou_Bass>i found tox to be functional just a bit unpolished XD <Jookia>i use tox but it's stagnant and doesn't work very well over tor <rain1>jmd, another chat/video program like jitsi and so on <Acou_Bass>reason i asked for comparison to tox is they both claim to be decentralised/DHT-based as opposed to central servers <Jookia>ring is probably technically superior to tox <Acou_Bass>does ring do video? doesnt seem t o say on their site xD <Acou_Bass>maybe ill give it a test then - the SO flatly refuses to use anything but skype, but not for lack of trying <rain1>Acou_Bass, you show them stallmans talk from yesterday :) <rain1>he talked a bit about skype and the network effect <Acou_Bass>weve tried just about everything to replace it... jitsi was the closest <Acou_Bass>but one key feature which is (on the windoze version) allowing the video window to 'stay on top' which is easy enough on any GNU window manager but windows has to make it difficult <rain1>Acou_Bass, I used jitsi a bit and it was bad but worked, now it's not working :( <rain1>but here's hoping ring is solutioa n <Jookia>I think the gold standard of IM programs is file transfers <Acou_Bass>yeah if it actually works then it could very well be a solution ;P <Jookia>Ever since I switched to Pidgin and used MSN I've never had consistent file transfer <Acou_Bass>of course the correct solution would be to get her off the MS drug <davexunit>rain1: looks like ring has patched pjproject <davexunit>but I'm having a hard time coming up with the exact patches <rain1>I'll dig around and see if i can find it too :) <davexunit>but in the current master it seems those patches aren't there... <rain1>I think its ./contrib/src/pjproject/gnutls.patch <rain1>there are a lot of patches in this repo actually <davexunit>rain1: oh they must have moved them out of this repo <rain1>I cloned it from savoirfairelinux <keverets>Acou_Bass: did you try linphone as a skype replacement? <keverets>though the UI/UX is still not the best, it's gotten better. Easy sign-up for linphone.org accounts, and much more cross-platform support than the name implies <keverets>I tried Ring.cx but had issues with connectivity. Messages weren't being delivered in a timely fashion, or at all <keverets>which was disappointing, since it looked pretty good <jmd>keverets: Any system where one has to sign up for accounts, is a non-starter for me. <jmarciano>I have bunch of clients asking me for Skype, well we don't use proprietary software that we don't know what is doing with information and communication of our clients. That is the answer. And business is moving forward - without Skype. <rain1>you can host your own sip server too, right? <rain1>jmarciano, thati s an excellent answer :) <Acou_Bass>jmarciano: and thats why i want my SO to move away from it... conversations between a man and his lady are private and should stay that way <Acou_Bass>not necessarily distance, but we do use skype a fair bit as we dont live together <Acou_Bass>and ive never been comfortable using skype for it <jmarciano>and linphone works just fine, I call customers all over the globe, they call me. <jmarciano>I use phone number to get calls though. I call them back. <jmarciano>and linphone works very simple, with camera too, I did not try, but I could see myself on camera at least. <jmarciano>SIP is older than Skype. Skype is just a joke to bind people into one centralized proprietary system, to make further jokes with them and their families by spying on them. <rain1>I'm not sure about webrtc, doesn't it leak local ip addressse? <jmarciano>Like this: you setup website, she clicks on the website and talks to you. <Acou_Bass>like i said, weve tried lots of alternatives, but the only feature she moans about is being able to keep video window on top <Acou_Bass>which of course is easy in any GNU window manger but not on the windoze <rain1>I wonder if there's a 3rd party windows program to make a window stay on top <Acou_Bass>in openbox/xfce, i can right-click a window border and tell it to stay on top <Acou_Bass>windows WM has no such functionality, but skype has it built in <jmarciano>Acou_Bass: I get what you mean... well, Windoze is limited. <jmarciano>today there was before one hour, talk on Libreplanet about Ring! communication, it was something I guess only, like Skype, I did not get it much, too bad connection from my place. <rain1>jmarciano, yeah I think this Ring looks really promising <Acou_Bass>errm... you missed that conversation i suppose about 10 minutes ago where people were talking about doing so :D <rain1>I had a go packaging it but failed, davexunit found a fix - I think we will get it some timie! <rain1>I'm just thinking about the best way to apply the fix <rain1>Acou_Bass, oh i'd like to know what error you get? <rain1>if its hassle like you have to re-run stuff, dont worry about it <Jookia>I don't think giving someone a pre-alpha OS stick would be that good a gift ;) <Acou_Bass>think of it as the gift os losing crappy windoze <jmarciano>if I understand well -- ring can be also self-hosted? <rain1>jmarciano, I think so - seems like you run a demon to become part of ring network - then a client to actually use it <rain1>I don't know the details yet though <Acou_Bass>i dont think theres any 'hosting' involved as it claims to be server-free like tox <jmarciano>it says boostrap: bootstrap.ring.cx -- so I guess that is a server to connect people together. <jmarciano>there is ip2ip, I guess that could be direct. And there is with boostrap.ring.cx they probably relay something <Acou_Bass>rain1: did you say you were tracking down the pjobject patch too? <rain1>I found it but I'm not sure how to apply it <rain1>Maybe we would make two pjobject packages, one a pjobject:ring version? <rain1>but then the patch needs to be either downloaded somehow or extracted from the git repo - it's difficult <Acou_Bass>the AUR package doesnt actually use a seperate pjobject package... i guess its sort ob bundled in with ring itself <rain1>yeah they have a script to dowload the deps and it must also apply all their patches <efraim>Ring is also available on f-droid <rain1>Acou_Bass - I got dwm working btw <rain1>if you like there is a really heplful example package to look at= <Acou_Bass>i need to actually figure out how to, y'know, create guix packages to start actually hacking on one :P <efraim>I started by updating some of the ones already packaged <Acou_Bass>the bit i was rather stupidly confused about though is <Acou_Bass>what do i do with the .scm file... do i just do guix package -f ratpoison.scm and let it do its magic? <rain1>you nede to change it a tiny bit to use -f but basically <efraim>you want GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH, I have a git repo with a couple of packages I haven't submitted yet or customized for myself <efraim>I push it to github every now and then <efraim>I'll see if I can find a link in the manual for GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH <rain1>it is really useful to have a directory of peoples extra guix packages <efraim>a search for guix on github lists a couple <rain1>oh cool, if you PM me them I can add them? or you can add them if you like <rain1>(I don't have search ability on github they removed it from non-registered users) <efraim>sounds as bad as when I tried to search pintrest <jmarciano>I have removed github recently... will not host there anymore. <jmarciano>search was the only reason to keep account open, closing it. <rain1>nursejunka, when i suggest people use something else than github they look at me like im crazy! <rain1>I guess they take it away gradually to make dissent quieter <ng_>rain1: really? last time I checked i could still search <ng_>github,com/search <- still works <davexunit>rain1: pjproject bundles a bunch of libraries... <rain1>davexunit, what do you think the best thing to do about the patches is? <rain1>I can't really think of a good solution <rain1>oh you just got mentioned in room 155 :P <lfam>sneek: later tell rain1: I noticed you linked to my development mirror of Guix on your guix-wiki. That's cool! But I think it would be better if you linked to my private packages repo, which is called 'pkgs' and not 'guix' <Acou_Bass>i like that it hasnt tried re-inventing all these things *cough owncloud* and instead is more or less just a barrel of already-existing tech ready to open up <ng_>hrm. if freedombox was not the thing which was supposed to be a "secure" home torrelay running on cheap hardware slowing down the tor network, what is it? <ng_>that's waht I have in mind thinking of freedombox and the discussions around it. but could be that I just confuse names <efraim>it's been there for a few years, I've used it when looking for cheap arm boards <ng_>i have zero clue because i don't follow the conference. <ng_>tor trac had a discussion on some device like this, so this might be the reason which throws me off <ng_>"some device like this" in this case being something like the raspberry pi, suited to provide bridges, relays and whatever you want to add. <ng_>found to be unsuitable because of reasons I forgot but can be looked up. I also would like to be wrong about what I just said. <ng_>regarding things which can run on a toaster and are .onion or whatever addressable: for legacy reasons I package the psyced chatserver (psyc0.99/1), psyc clients and system service definitions for it for guixsd. I say legacy because there's still work happening on psyc1, but the focus is on psyc2 now. it's still something which can be useful for low-power guix based mini server <wingo>did anyone figure out the gnome-keyring / ssh agent issue? <efraim>note to self: custom tar definition, with bzip2=pbzip2, gzip=pigz, xz=pixz <janneke>wingo: i looked at networkmanager and found it does not see any wifi networks/essids, while command line tools work <ng_>will there be a point where gnome account services in settings can be integrated, or is this more of a thing a potential Guix in-system graphical settings dialogue would do (I know the system configuration file can handle this, but graphical (gtk/qt/whatever) tools for this would be nice <jmarciano>how do I get config.scm instead of config.scm.in in /gnu/store/..-guix-latest? <jmarciano>I did guix pull, but I cannot load (use-modules (guix)) as it complains, it cannot find config.scm, as it is not prepared <fhmgufs>How can I get a package by its name in scheme code? <fhmgufs>I mean to get the scheme variable representing the package. <jmarciano>fhmgufs: that is why I am now trying to do... <jmarciano>only guessing, but I cannot use it for some reason <jmarciano>with purpose to quickly inspect guix packages <jmarciano>I wish to avoid system calls, but rather use guix module, but is not working <fhmgufs>I started about one week ago, but really started :) just now. <ng_>lfam or whoever wants to read some lines, does this sound okay as a description change: POWWOW is a client software which can be used for telnet as well as for @dfn{Multi-User Dungeon} (MUD). Additionally it can be used with chat servers like psyced if you keep in mind that everytime you enter ; the line will break as ; is the default command separator character. To work around this, you need to either use a <ng_>patched version of this package or locally rewrite this package to include a change for CMDSEP ; to whatever character you prefer and is available. The location http://lavachat.symlynx.com/unix/ can give you an idea for the patch. <fhmgufs>Not a big flood ... I think nobody will die. <ng_>not a good version.. but I am welcome to additional input so I can send the patch <jmarciano>first time in 1999, I did not go to buy "Linux", but to buy "GNU" CD, I was thinking it is some kind of Unix, licensed, proprietary and very expensive. Later I have discovered I did get the "GNU". <jmarciano>and before few weeks, I noticed, people don't know what is GNU, I could not believe it -- I was living in my own world. <jmarciano>Then I discovered that Debian is not endorsed, and free distributions, and realized how easy it is to deviate. <ng_>the patch instruction thing can be a bit shorter or completely ommited? I only want to point out that you will have ";" as a cmdsep and need to patch it. I will later add a guix .scm to the lavachat location and also to my own domain once it is moved again. <jmarciano>I have built nice business system, in Perl... I hope to rewrite it in Guile, it will take some time (years?) <fhmgufs>jmarciano: I did not know GNU, too ... until less than one year ago. <fhmgufs>Before I used a strange operating system by Microsoft. <jmarciano>I cannot condemn people by using anything... I don't care what they use. <jmarciano>But if someone asks me to help him with the installation, there is USB stick with free software and nothing else. <ng_>there were gnu linux distribution cds being sold in 99? I got it by downloads. <jmarciano>yes? In 99, if I would download a CD, I would pay in Germany more money than if I buy it. <jmarciano>I remember 2-3 days of full downloading, costed me over 500 German marks. Never paid that bill. <ng_>idk.. in 99 i just had connections to people <fhmgufs>If they already had had the Euro it would have been much more expensive :) <jmarciano>I must admit, I have always hated "licensed software". Even for GNU, I was thinking what a sh... license, I don't even want to read it, I will copy it as I want. <jmarciano>I was thinking for "Linux" on CD to be proprietary. Of course I would copy it, without taking care... <civodul>sneek: later tell alezost would be if package-info buffers showed "coreutils 8.24" instead of "coreutils@8.24" in the heading <jmarciano>but then after 1-2 months, nightly reading and understanding all the new commands, bash, gawk, k this k that, and reading the GNU GPL license, I have realized it, it is good thing <jmarciano>actually I am still not satisfied that I did not buy the original GNU CD <ng_>this is weird to read. around 98/99 I tried SuSe or whatever it was named then, some other bigger distros and the Zenwalk. what is "the oiginal GNU CD"? <ng_>oh. I thought in distro terms already. sorry <jmarciano>SuSe of course used GNU to make their own distribution. <jmarciano>through packaging, centralizing, inclusion of non-free software, customer binding to particular company, we have got society, running Linux not knowing that they run GNU. <ng_>i just did not go into detail because I dislike talking about 98 to now.. <ng_>well.. much happens in 17-18 years and it's like posting a CV or like talking about your life, so offtopic that I occasionally talk about it when it's okay, but the entire span of this and that distro and experience etc, okay it's part of what lead me to where I am now, but that's all. <ng_>only to mention why. don't feel discomfort seeing / listening to others talking about it. <jmarciano>to switch, if you know where I can find some guile scripts, searchable, like database, ~ github or something <ng_>hm. github and notabug, definitely. that's all I know atm. <jmarciano>so few people use: with-readline-completion-function... <wingo>ACTION just found out a couple things <wingo>one, apparently there is a library call, openlog() <wingo>it is to send logs to syslog <wingo>but there is some option in which those logs are sent actually to tty1 <wingo>which is where gnome-keyring's logs go? not sure. maybe those logs are just the logs from gnome-shell and its keyring prompter. <wingo>but, there is a JS backtrace when any password prompt is made from gnome-shell, which i think can happen from polkit or gnome-keyring <wingo>which is what makes gnome-keyring not work, apparently <ng_>sneek: later tell lfam I rephrased the powwow description and send it to the -devel list. I hope this version makes more sense. <ng_>was this correct format?