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<jmarciano>gnome maps shall be in GuixSD:
<Acou_Bass>jmarciano: cool :D i like some of the GNOME softwares
<Jookia>Getting the OpenWRT build environment to play nice with Guix is a 'fun' exercise
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<NiAsterisk>california would be another consideration for the GNOME in guix, but idk about the license.
<NiAsterisk>should be okay
<janneke>NiAsterisk: gnome builds on microsoft building on java?
<NiAsterisk>n odiea?
<NiAsterisk>in case you thought I made something up, here's the link to what I meant:
<janneke>i looked it up, it's written in a "new" program language called Vala
<janneke>then i looked that up...
<NiAsterisk>okay now I looked it up and still don't see the microsoft reference other than being able to build there
<NiAsterisk>auto screenlock (default setting) while dist-upgrade locks you out of X when running GNOME on Debian. cool feature.
<Jookia>Is there a statically linked git-annex floating around I could use?
<NiAsterisk>for guix?
<Jookia>For x86_64
<Jookia> might work
<Jookia>Oh it works!
<janneke>NiAsterisk: my mistake, i thought it was a ms c# ripoff
<NiAsterisk>:) np
<NiAsterisk>even if it was, would it be a problem other than a preference and ideological one?
<NiAsterisk>I have opinions about this, but I am curious.
<janneke>NiAsterisk: that would depend on your perspective
<janneke>problems only exist in the mind ;-)
<janneke>it puzzles me what would move a free-software project to take technical inspiration from ms
<NiAsterisk>I see perspectives where it would be troublesome, I see perspective where it doesn't matter. I tend to have a mixture of both in this case.
<NiAsterisk>interesting. debian sid now ships firefox esr
<janneke>i can even see how having a familiar language being available as free software can help trapped people learn about GNU and choose or freedom
<paroneayea>moin moin
<paroneayea>Guix talk by David and I today at LibrePlanet!
<janneke>paroneayea: morning! That's great.
<rain1>is it possible to search for a file in the packages that exist?
<rain1>like arch linux pkgfile program
<NiAsterisk>what do you mean?
<jmarciano>when somebody makes an index, it will be possible...
<NiAsterisk>you mean search for the current version linked to your current profile and see which files are associated with specificied package?
<rain1>well i was curious if any package provides a binary 'fakeroot'
<NiAsterisk>where comes fakeroot from in other distros?
<rain1>I'm trying to package it now
<NiAsterisk>in the context of guix (I just read apt-cache show fakeroot), is this of any use?
<NiAsterisk>i mean for guixsd. guix on other systems, maybe.
<rain1>A script I want to run uses it, I think it's also relevant for LXC
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<NiAsterisk>should this happen? did a guix pull and then this:
<NiAsterisk>restarting and it does not appear again. Some less verbose output on errors might be good I think, if this was one.
<pizzaiolo>potential good news?
<pizzaiolo>not sure if this would fix touchpad issues under guixSD
<NiAsterisk>that depends on the patchset linux-libre makes out of 4.6
<jmarciano>Downloading 5gch00...-gimp-2.8.14 (62.2MiB installed)...
<jmarciano> 99KiB/s 01:15 | 7.2MiB transferreddd
<jmarciano>bzip2: Compressed file ends unexpectedly; Inappropriate ioctl for device
<civodul>NiAsterisk: "guix package -u *" does not do what you want
<civodul>you should run "guix package -u" or "guix package -u '.*'"
<civodul>"guix package -u *" is equivalent to "guix package -u somefile.txt anotherfile and so on"
<civodul>(glob pattern expansion)
<NiAsterisk>civodul: well some days ago I was told guix package -u is broken and does not work (temporarily it did not for me)
<rain1>anybody know how I might get sys/capability.h ? I tried adding a libpcap input to my package but that didn't help
<NiAsterisk>I used to do guix package -u
<civodul>NiAsterisk: there can always be breakage, but what i wrote still holds :-)
<NiAsterisk>hm, okay
<civodul>jmarciano: this is a case of our server being overloaded :-(
<civodul>jmarciano: i'd recommend trying again...
<NiAsterisk>civodul: btw, do you track threads of open patches (gnunet.scm patch in this case) and just have too many and too little time, or should I apply what lfam said yesterday, reopen and be vocal because the mailinglist gained traffic. I don't CC anymore, can't hurt to ask :)
<rain1>oops i mixed up libpcap and libcap
<civodul>NiAsterisk: yeah with ~40 messages/day, no single person can keep track of everything i guess
<civodul>so if you think a patch got lost (after a week or so passed), do ping people
<NiAsterisk>would it be time to discuss something I have no idea for how to solve this? separate lists, one for just patch and nothing else?
<civodul>i think we'd need a patch-tracking tool
<civodul>more importantly, we need someone to install it somewhere :-)
<rain1>What is the technique to resolve this during 'install'? "/bin/sh: No such file or directory"
<NiAsterisk>this would be useful I think. I can only provide a public server later this year, so I can't help there.
<civodul>rain1: replace "/bin/sh" with the result of (which "sh"), like the 'patch-shebangs' phase does
<rain1>thanks ill try that
<NiAsterisk>it's a bit akward to CC with Gnus when you use ntp and email, it creates two separate threads I think, although I am not entirely sure.
<NiAsterisk>and if we run into problems more often it would be time for a tool which helps to save time and gives people less stress :)
<civodul>it's LP day!
<Jookia>Yeah, come join us in #libreplanet !
<civodul>sound is pretty bad, too much reverb
<civodul>except when dkg talks :-)
<NiAsterisk>it's fascinating how Guix gets GNOME without systemd and gentoo is like, yeah whatever, just use systemd
<NiAsterisk>maybe. possibly. I never checked the claims I got ~1 year ago
<NiAsterisk>oh. there's now a openrc-force flag. so it seems to work
<NiAsterisk>but entirely unsupported by Gentoo and Gnome
<Acou_Bass>yeah id love to run gnome on guix... my laptop is nowhere near powerful enough to handle it though
<NiAsterisk>I have the impression through everything running compared to awesome-wm fe. that it does use more power
<Acou_Bass>my laptop doesnt even have a graphics card outside the junk intel one (and its a VERY junk intel one)
<Acou_Bass>so running 3D desktops is a no-no
<Acou_Bass>i could just about run compiz/xfce
<civodul>ACTION makes fontforge reproducible
<NiAsterisk>sounds older than my t60 currently handling stock debian sid gnome fine
<kristofer>I just installed artanis in my user profile! the symlinks exist in ~/.guix-profile, but not in /run/current-system/profile/share/guile - so I can't load the modules from the repl. I'm guessing I need a symlink, but where and what should it point to?
<kristofer>conversly, I've installed artanis on my laptop without experiecing this issue at all
<rain1>kristofer, would you like me to test? I installed artanis
<rain1>,use (artanis artanis) I got it failing too
<rain1>seems like the package doesn't install any guile code
<kristofer>I have a very basic guix machine running nginx-service and lsh-service where the artanis module can't be found, but my laptop running %desktop-services can find the artanis modules just fine
<kristofer>my simple artanis site runs fine on the laptop.. I'm guessing there's a symlink issue, but I'm not completely sure
<rain1>my bad, it is in artanis-0.1.0/share/guile/site/2.0/
<kristofer>gotta run! thanks for investigating
<rain1>here is a workaround
<rain1>GUILE_LOAD_PATH=/gnu/store/...-artanis-0.1.0/share/guile/site/2.0/ art
<pdurbin>enjoying the talk at LibrePlanet:
<pdurbin>I wonder if the slides are online yet.
<pdurbin>Chris is sitting next to me. Told me where to find them: :)
<pizzaiolo>guix folks should reeeeeeeally watch room 123 right now
<Gamayun>Already are ;)
<pdurbin>boegel: I'm curious how you'd compare Guix to EasyBuild:
<boegel>pdurbin: hey! :)
<boegel>pdurbin: I'd say EB is specific to HPC/scientific software, and fits better in the common HPC environment (ties in with modules, etc)
<pdurbin>boegel: Hi! I just attended a talk about Guix. I linked to the slides a few minutes ago.
<pdurbin>boegel: ok, fair enough
<jmarciano>civodul: aha yes? Server being overloaded? OK let me try it again.
<boegel>pdurbin: that being said, some of the Guix folks in here disagree, and they have good points, see
<boegel>pdurbin: the interesting thing is that I think Guix can help EB (by providing a 'jail' to build stuff in), and EB can help Guix (by serving as a build tool that knows how to deal with a lot of scientific software)
<Jookia>We should probably package the scientific software in Guix
<pdurbin>gotcha. hey, the LibrePlanet talk I'm in is wrapping up and it's lunch time. back in a while
<NiAsterisk>does freenode allow anything other than _ and - in names?
<NiAsterisk>.,: ?
<efraim>spaces also i believe
<NiAsterisk>spaces don't work for /whois
***NiAsterisk is now known as ngx
***ngx is now known as NiAsterisk
<NiAsterisk>damn register. everything taken
***NiAsterisk is now known as ng_
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***ng_` is now known as ng_
<jmarciano>when guix package -A is invoked, and if there is error, the error cannot be routed to /dev/null
<Acou_Bass>is there any reason that guix system reconfigure desktop.scm *always* chooses to recompile icecat?
<Acou_Bass>it takes forever and starting to get irritating... XD
<janneke>Acou_Bass: if you reconfigure without changing anything, does it still recompile icecat?
<Acou_Bass>well i did change something, because i added a new WM to my config
<Acou_Bass>but in the past, i have done it without changing the .scm
<janneke>Acou_Bass: you could try after reconfigure completes...
<Acou_Bass>and it went ahead and built icecat again
<Acou_Bass>i wouldnt usually mind, but as aluded to earlier, my laptop is ancient, and so building such a big bit of software takes hoourss :P
<Acou_Bass>i just dont understand why icecat gets built at all if theres a binary available, seems a bit weird
<janneke>Acou_Bass: either something that counts as an input is not the same, or it's a bug
<Acou_Bass>would it help if i just scrapped putting icecat in my desktop.scm and just installed it as a user package? Xd
<Acou_Bass>the only reason i didnt already do that is because i have multiple users on this machine and so it seemed a bit daft to install it more than once
<efraim>do you do `sudo guix pull` before reconfiguring?
<civodul>i think i missed paroneayea & davexunit's LibrePlanet talk, right?
<janneke>civodul: if you haven't already seen it...
<janneke>ACTION miscalculated 10:55 Boston time to be 16:55 CET and missed it too
<civodul>yeah i was away at that time :-/
<mthl>civodul: I am working on SRFI-64 test driver again, but I struggle with the process of debugging tests in a REPL
<mthl>civodul: Have you any tips?
<felixdz>Is it possible to install guix with an encrypted root? Or is that still being worked on?
<Jookia>felixdz: yes
<felixdz>Yes it is still being worked on?
<felixdz>Otherwise is there a configuration template that lists the steps to install using encrypted root?
<Jookia>felixdz: I'm not sure if there's a template that lists the steps. Are you on a libreboot system, do you want to use LVM or just a single encrypted partition?
<nursejunka>guix is a rolling distro?
<felixdz>A single encrypted partition would be fine. I am not on libreboot.
<taylan>nursejunka: so far yes. you just 'guix pull' and get the latest state.
<taylan>nursejunka: there's also concrete releases for installation media though.
<Jookia>felixdz: Then it shouldn't be too hard to do, just set up LUKS and add a mapped-device to your configuration. I'm too tired to give an example, sorry
<janneke>nursejunka: guix is many things, what would you need?
<felixdz>Jookia, Thanks. I'll read the docs some more.
<nursejunka>janneke? rolling would be nice
<janneke>at its current pace, sticking to fixed releases does not make much sense
<janneke>most of us update from git a couple times a week
<nursejunka>does "beta" on the download page means i shouldnt use it as my main os?
<alezost>nursejunka: it's up to you to decide :-) I use it as my main system
<ng_>"depends" describes it. it is useable depending on your expected usecase
<nursejunka>general use
<nursejunka>does it use a gui installer?
<Acou_Bass>nah its not GUI but its like
<Acou_Bass>two commands an done
<Acou_Bass>the init command basically does it for you
<ng_>more or less, you still have to read the documentation bits to understand what you need to put into or change from the template system files
<Acou_Bass>BUT be warned... the init command takes a REALLY long time, at least it did for me
<Acou_Bass>because #1 hydra's repo downloads are slow, and #2 if it cant download a package then it compiles it... which obviously takes a while
<nursejunka>oh, its a source based like gentoo?
<Acou_Bass>there are binary repositories
<Acou_Bass>but it can build from source too
<nursejunka>i think i can do it if there is a guide
<Acou_Bass>and (for me at least) the init command (the one for installing it) built a fair amount of packages seemingly at random
<Acou_Bass>yeah theres a guide and as long as your setup is relatively straightforward, the guide is easy to follow - just a few things missing for more non-standard use cases (a common one asked in here is encrypted root) :P
<ng_>so this zdziarski has been ranting about GPL and free software today and throwing out a major unreflected storm of bs.. has written an article on it, no idea if it's any better, just to say "free software is never free, somebody pays for it, blargh"
<Acou_Bass>ng_: so... like many before him, completely misunderstood the 'free' part? :D
<ng_>you can look it up on twitter and the resulting (opiniated) article here:
<Acou_Bass>i bet there was also a paragraph that boils down to 'its not freedom becuz i dont have freedom to run whatever proprietary garbage i want!!'
<ng_>i'm trying to filter out the ranting
<ng_>this has more "once upon a time" ranting
<ng_>also the bug in the english language of free and free
<Acou_Bass>i mean, i get his point
<Acou_Bass>FOSS projects are nowhere near funded enough (the openSSL example is a good one, as is NTP as we saw last year)
<ng_>sure, but even paid for and closed source does not mean it will be free of bugs
<Acou_Bass>yeah thats where his point is flwaed hehe
<Acou_Bass>microsoft is like, the richest company ever, and windows is a buggy pile of horse shit
<ng_>also props that he did not include the stereotype stuff he ranted on
<nursejunka>oh reminds me, on the repos there is both openssl and libressl, how do i set a default?
<ng_>you can have both :) but libressl will be tested to see what we could build with it by default iirc
<ng_>correct me if that sentence was wrong.. but I understand it like you can have openssl and libressl here
<Acou_Bass>i really think the correct way to ensure free (libre) software continues to be higher-quality than paid/proprietary software, is to pay for your free software... obviously not everyone can afford it, but there are people who can
<Acou_Bass>eg. if you use GIMP professionally, donate to gimp the same amount as you would have paid for its proprietary alternative
<ng_>and that's the flaw with language.. with the word free
<ng_>what the market associated iwth it
<Acou_Bass>i really think the 'open source' crowd did well with using that term instead of free
<Acou_Bass>open source sounds far more professional than free ;p
<Acou_Bass>i cant imagine a business dude paying for 'free software' but i can see them getting behind 'open source'
<ng_>not really. it depends on how you market it, how you talk to people.
<Acou_Bass>thats what i mean
<Acou_Bass>open source is far more well-marketed than free
<ng_>i meant "not really, i disagree"
<Acou_Bass>obviously thats just what i think ;D
<nursejunka>is there a compressed txt file of the packages? a script freezes my browser
<Acou_Bass>im not saying we need to rebrand free software... but, as you said, calling it free lays expectations of the price being right, 'why would i pay for free software??' :P
<ng_>Acou_Bass: if the product works and you can talk to people about how their regular contributions, or donations to fundations, would affect the project that's more direct than just say "hey, it's free." because free only has the problem that we are in a system were everything gets a pricetag. if this association wouldn't be there, maybe hearing "free software" people would get different associations.
<Acou_Bass>yeah totally
<nursejunka>!package icecat
<Acou_Bass>i agree with that, and thats generally how i go about it
<ng_>nursejunka: are you already in guixsd installation?
<nursejunka>ng_? no
<Acou_Bass>thats what i meant though when i said the 'open source' folk did a good job of choosing a term that shifts away from the idea of free (as in price)
<ng_>if not, there's a long list (takes time to load) on the guix website
<nursejunka>yes it does
<ng_>but it focuses on just the source
<Acou_Bass>im not saying it was necessarily the right thing to do
<ng_>which is a problem since free software is not entirely about the sourcecode.
<Acou_Bass>because i am firmly in the 'free software' camp
<Acou_Bass>just that, on that aspect alone, 'open source' sounds better than 'free software'
<ng_>it's the same issue with certain political schools I try to just ask about and get peoples background and ideas to see what they might mean by using that term.
<ng_>(not OSS)
<Acou_Bass>not sure what you mean by that
<Acou_Bass>you mean, if i (for exmaple) said ima conservative, youd rather actually ask me what i actually mean by that, instead of just assuming certain things about the word 'conservative'?
<ng_>sorry, i made a jump in my memory to the analogies I draw between free software and anarchism and how I came to the way of describing/getting anarchism from people because it also suffers a language barrier and other problems.
<ng_>but maybe the same problem can come with other, less complex, political schools. I have to think about that eventually.
<Acou_Bass>anarchist makes you sound like a crazy violent rioter with a flaming torch and a board with a nail in it :D (that sort of thing?)
<ng_>I don't want to talk politics here, as it can be an annoying topic for at least some people. necessary, but annoying. the only thing I will add is what I came up with, a very short version of what I do these days: I read very much, not every school out there, but enough to be able to see that there are certain similarities and that it also counts #where you #what you read and heard and #what influenced you in
<ng_>general #other struggles you have in your life etc list goes on
<Acou_Bass>im not discussing politics, just trying to understand where you drew the similarity :D
<ng_>okay, let me try
<ng_>words can do a great damage and irritation, misunderstanding. I see more similarities, but the only reason I referenced it just now was because of words which get some general meaning over time which might not be entirely correct.
<Acou_Bass>yeah thats what i meant when i said about what 'anarchist' sounds like
<Acou_Bass>not to me, because i know what it actually means, but toaverage joe
<Acou_Bass>thats what people think when you say 'anarchist', just like how people think the wrong thing when they hear 'free software'
<ng_>this is entirely true by the book I read and criticized recently. I did not translate the open letter so far, but it was a political book and it also had many wrong assumptions about technology
<ng_>and free software in general
<ng_>like "people are afraid of free software"
<civodul>mthl: hello!
<civodul>mthl: no specific tips
<civodul>it's possible to run tests in Geiser, roughly by evaluating to 'define-module' form and then C-x C-e the body of the test you want
<civodul>that's fairly manual
<civodul>(glad you're looking into it BTW, it's still somewhere on my to-do list...)
<ng_>is there an active todo list of bugs which need to get fixed before the 0.9.1 release?
<ng_>spotted a thread but it was like a month ago
<mthl>civodul: Not sure what you precisely mean "evaluating to 'define-module"?
<ng_>humpf. is "qt-everywhere-opensource-src-5.5.1" already build on hydra? this has been running for hours here
<Acou_Bass>hmm... im installing icecat as user now, and its still trying to build it instead of pulling a binary...
<mthl>civodul: I think I got it. ",m (test-foo)" then C-x C-e "(define-module (test-foo))"
<davexunit>hey #guix
<davexunit>while the talk didn't get streamed, "solving the deployment crisis with guix" was a hit
<davexunit>and here's a picture of snowden getting a standing applause
<Acou_Bass>;D cool davexunit
<davexunit>(I hear that our talk may have been recorded for later, we'll see)
<Acou_Bass>is it possible to use distcc in guixSD? would help me compile these packages much faster
<jmarciano>thanks davexunit for notices on Libreplanet conference, it means to me, as I cannot be there
<rain1>I posted a workaround for the artanis thing
<rain1>but I think this is a legitimate bug
<civodul>davexunit: cool, thanks for the good news!
<kristofer>rain1: awesome, where did you post at?
<rain1>GUILE_LOAD_PATH=/gnu/store/...-artanis-0.1.0/share/guile/site/2.0/ art
<rain1>this lets guile find the libraries
<kristofer>I've been reading about the store monad and I have to ask, is it possible to use this for purposes beyond package management?
<Acou_Bass>like what?
<kristofer>to eliminate rdbm? I'm thinking web app personally
<Acou_Bass>i dunnoo
<rain1>kristofer, I made a little tool based on the idea of gnu/store but separate
<rain1>the idea can definitely be used in a lot of places
<rain1>even if you don't use the actual guix /gnu/store
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<jmarciano>ng_: Zdziarski, obviously does not know of Affero license, did not research well the subject, whatever "open source" he wrote in last 25+ years, and has absolutely either misunderstanding what is "free software" or is intentionally deviating and using "free" as "without charge".
<civodul>kristofer: monads in general are applicable to different areas
<kristofer>civodul: right! I haven't investigated the code for (guix monads) yet, so I guess I should start there for answers.. do you know if it can read/write changes to the application state to disk?
<kristofer>I guess it's obviously doing that for guix. I'll investigate further :)
<civodul>kristofer: no it can't, it really "just" a programming language construct
<ng_>damnit. do the permission popups you can't solve with passwords (like backlight etc) go away when I reconfigure and add gnome-service?
<civodul>davexunit: make sure to give mr bill the finger, as rms suggested ;-)
<davexunit>civodul: hahaha
<davexunit>civodul: are you watching the stream?
<civodul>i was listening to it
<civodul>just over the last 45mn or so, though
<Acou_Bass>wait, theres a stream? :O
<rain1>it just finished
<Acou_Bass>aww :P
<rain1>there will be more tommorow
<Gamayun>mr bill?
<civodul>sneek: later tell alezost M-x guix-licenses rocks
<sneek>Got it.