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<Mik_>Wondering if someone could help me understand the g-exp needed to set a user's shell
<Mik_>I thought it would be (g-exp (file-name zsh)), but my reconfiguration fails to build
<Mik_>Or possibly (g-exp (ungexp zsh))
<rain1>I found this snipped in google cache
<rain1>but I haven't tried it out
<rain1>maybe there's a way withouth g-exp
<rain1>i wonder if /etc/shells is relevant
<Mik_>Thank you! I still don't understand what that's doing, but it has worked
<rain1>I'm not 100% on it myself
<Mik_>My googling didn't turn that up; what term did you search?
<rain1>it was a deleted website :)
<rain1>so #~ is gexp quote, #$ is unquote
<rain1>I don't really see how it works
***francis7 is now known as pyfgcrl
<Mik_>I could use some clarification aswell, my initial thinking was that/bin/zsh wasn't necessary
<Mik_>But I guess that is where the binary would reside...
<Jookia>/bin/zsh doesn't exist
<Jookia>unless you mean the package's /bin/zsh
<rain1>i think that it is putting together the path /gnu/store/...-zsh-1.4/bin/zsh
<Mik_>Anyway, on to other issues! Thank you rain1
<rain1>but why is it a gexp, not just a string?
<Mik_>Is there a good tutorial on how the store works? I've read documentation on nixos and guix, but it's always over my head
<ajgrf>Mik_: i didn't really understand functional package management very well until i went through the nixpills ( unfortunately it's a lot of material and it's not about guix
<Jookia>iyzsong: Apologies but I can't get your patch to work, worse it gives new errors in Thunar relating to finding theme engines!
<iyzsong>what's wrong...
<Jookia>iyzsong: Numix icons don't seem to load (they're in ~/.icons) and I get errors about being unable to find the 'murrine' theme engine, a regression from an unpatched thunar
<iyzsong>I think gtk look icons in ~/.local/share/icons
<iyzsong>~/.icons is for mouse cursor theme (for me)
<Jookia>Is that where you've been testing?
<iyzsong>no, I only tested the gtk-encode-symbolic-svg from gtk+ (before, it required to be wrapped to handle SVG)
<Jookia>Oh, well this doesn't fix Thunar for example
<lfam>mark_weaver: I don't know whether or not your recent graphite2 updates addressed all these CVEs or not, but here's a Debian Security Advisory on graphite2:
<lfam>It looks like Debian's solution was to upgrade graphite2 to 1.3.6, so I think we must be okay since you did the same.
<mark_weaver>lfam: yes, I looked at that and it seems that updating to 1.3.6 is enough. debian didn't apply any security patches to 1.3.6, anyway.
<lfam>Okay, just wanted to communicate my uncertainty. One can never be too sure about these things!
<mark_weaver>lfam: nonetheless, thanks for bringing it to my attention and for all the help with security updates. it is a great relief
<lfam>You're quite welcome! I'm more than happy to apply the updates I feel comfortable applying. I'm glad that you seem to handle the more "thorny" updates like icecat; I wouldn't be sure where to start...
<lfam>And I'm also glad that efraim and others do security updates too
<lfam>We need multiple people paying attention to this
<mark_weaver>absolutely. I would be going insane by now if not for the extra help
<mark_weaver>I have to go afk for a bit, ttyl!
<mkoenig>is it possible to use proprietary nvidia drivers
<mkoenig>my gpu is not supported by nouveau
<Jookia>mkoenig: You'd have to package it yourself
<Piece_Maker>there used to be a few git repos around that had some guix packages for proprietary stuff
<Piece_Maker>suppose it might be worth hunting around to see if someones already done it :P
<mkoenig>yeah i'll give it a try
<mkoenig>ehm, how is "guix" pronounced?
<lfam>As in "computer geeks"
<lfam>If that is a common saying in your country...
<Piece_Maker>i reckon that name works much better in terms of the distro as opposed to the package manager
<Piece_Maker>'geeks software distribution' ;D a distro for geeks!
<lfam>It also seems to be a portmanteau of Guile and Nix
<Piece_Maker>ahh yeh, that makes sense
<Piece_Maker>how is guile supposed to be pronounced
<Piece_Maker>like... guy-alls?
<lfam>And I think that in French, it makes more sense to pronounce the word "guix" that way. There isn't an intuitive pronounciation in English.
<Piece_Maker>yeh... pronouncing guix as its spelled in english is weird, id much prefer to just pronounce it as an acronym
<lfam>Piece_Maker: I think so. It's a pre-existing word rather than a neologism
<Piece_Maker>like, gee, yoou, eye, ex :P
<lfam>That's rather verbose!
<lfam>You should just say it "in French" ;)
<Piece_Maker>yeah, i do just say it 'geeks'
<Piece_Maker>sort of, goo-eeks
<lfam>The world is big enough for all these pronunciations :)
<mkoenig>and for lots of more
<iyzsong>Jookia: that's strange, thunar linked with the wrong gdk-pixbuf, and will use the right one when I remove the gdk-pixbuf from libnotify's inputs or delete (so the libtool really does something)
<Jookia>iyzsong: Oh I see, GNOME isn't updated to link to the svg pixbuf. Perhaps it'd be better to rename gdk-pixbuf+svg to gdk-pixbuf and the old gdk-pixbuf to gdk-pixbuf-simple ?
<iyzsong>I don't think that's the problem, packages using gtk+ does have the right one in their's inputs, but it will link to the old one sometimes..
<Jookia>Perhaps GTK can't handle two gdk-pixbuf packages at the same time?
<Jookia>I wonder how they'd select the right gdk-pixbuf to link to if two dependencies use different gdk-pixbuf propagated inputs?
<iyzsong>in case of thunar, the old gdk-pixbuf is not in inputs at all, but it get it from
<iyzsong>so the solution is only use 1 gdk-pixbuf for all packages, or delete the libtool files? I'll send message to ML :-)
<Piece_Maker>hey guys... cani ask a question... how exactly are the files in /gnu/store/ versioned? is it purely the hashes that provide that, or does it sit ontop of a VCS like git?
<Jookia>Piece_Maker: purely hashes + package name/version
<Jookia>iyzsong: It'd be nice to have multiple gdk-pixbufs, something impossible with most distros ;) How would this be fixed?
<Piece_Maker>so... lets say (purely for example) i have gtk 3.16 installed - 3.18 comes out, and so i do guix pull + reconfigure desktop.scm
<Piece_Maker>are both the 3.16 and 3.18 stored in /gnu/store, and thats what provides the grub rollback/|
<Jookia>Piece_Maker: Yes
<Piece_Maker>alright thanks :D was just trying to get my head around htat
<Jookia>Piece_Maker: FWIW i pronounce guix as 'you-icks', a bit like 'unix'
<Jookia>So do you use Guix or Nix or something?
<Piece_Maker>me? i use guixSD on my laptop, thoug i use Arch on my desktop :P
<mkoenig>in germany you would pronounce it "goo-icks"
<iyzsong>Jookia: that's what I mean by remove libtool archives ;-)
<Piece_Maker>i would love to use guix on my desktop but i have far too much proprietary garbage on it
<Jookia>Piece_Maker: Sounds like a fine time to throw some garbage out ;)
<Piece_Maker>i dont have THAT much to be fair... just the usual suspects
<Jookia>iyzsong: Hmm, what other packages would this have to be done for?
<Piece_Maker>nvidia drivers, steam gamez, usual crap
<Jookia>I think the only proprietary software I use nowadays is some nonfree JS now and then
<iyzsong>I don't know :o
<Piece_Maker>for anything thats actually like, important... i stick to free or at least 'open source'
<Jookia>I wonder if it'd be better/simpler to just replace gdk-pixbuf
<Piece_Maker>but like... i dont really care if games are proprietary blobs, i just make sure to keep them contained so they dont leak their garbage on the rest of my OS
<Piece_Maker>firejail is good for that :D
<Jookia>Neat, though I bet you still have firmware blobs ;)
<Piece_Maker>most probably
<Piece_Maker>like i said, nvidia drivers while not 'firmware' are another blob i still use... and i dont use linux-libre on desktop
<Piece_Maker>so god knows what arch builds into its default kernel install
<Piece_Maker>probably everything and the kitchen sink which seems to be the arch way for its default packages
<Jookia>I try to count all the blobs in my system. Software-wise, I don't have any running outside hard drive firmware though I don't know if there's a way I can avoid updating it
<Piece_Maker>im far more in that direction on my laptop
<Piece_Maker>and like i said, when it comes to 'getting work done' i avoid any proprietary crap at all purely because i hate the idea of vendor lock-in
<Piece_Maker>so many of my friends who do what i do, do so on OSX and dont know any different, and it drives me nuts
<mkoenig>how can i burn guixsd to a disk
<Jookia>mkoenig: Same way you burn any iso file, imgburn is one solution for windows, dd on unix
<mkoenig>oh didn't know you can burn with dd
<Jookia>Oh, you mean to a DVD?
<Jookia>Brasero can do that!
<mkoenig>okay thx
<Jookia>iyzsong: Turns out that theme engine error was due to incorrect test environment (tmux, not X)
<iyzsong>ok :o
<Jookia>I also changed gdk-pixbuf+svg to be gdk-pixbuf on my machine so all my packages get it by default, but it's not ideal since only GTK should need SVG support for icons. Guix should really shine with having multiple package versions, and it's sad this isn't the case. :(
<mkoenig>are there no kde packages :(
<Jookia>There's some
<mkoenig>i can only find kwindowsystem 5.19.0 and oxygen-icons 5.19.0
<Jookia>Well unfortunately it'll mean people have to package KDE software and test it
<iyzsong>yep, welcome any friend to package them :-)
<Jookia>Not sure how difficult it'd be, perhaps just busywork
<lfam>Anyone ever seen the 2nd license in this file? The IBM one?
<lfam>Seems to only exist on this one base64 implementation
<Jookia>I haven't, but it looks simple
<mkoenig>you can import nix packages!??
<lfam>mkoenig: Only the basics of the package, and you must have a working installation of the nix-instantiate command.
<Jookia>Perhaps a good place to start though?
<mkoenig>hmm is there a flashplugin for icecat?
<Jookia>... Flash?
<Jookia>Guix doesn't package proprietary software, so no
<Jookia>But tbh I haven't heard of anyone using flash in years
<mkoenig>ok. rly no free flashplayer implementation?
<Jookia>It depends, what are you trying to do?
<Jookia>Most video/audio purposes can be solved using HTML5 or mpv/youtube-dl. There's some free implementations of Flash but YMMV
<mkoenig>i often experience the good ol' "please download adobe flash player" message
<Jookia>Which sites?
<mkoenig>for example
<mkoenig>but i'll install debian as backup system (for gaming, streaming, etc.) anyway, so this will not be a problem
<Jookia>Generally I don't watch videos in my browser any more, I just use mpv
<Jookia>Which loads most websites even if they want to useflash
<Jookia>mpv+youtube-dl can play nowvideo
<Jookia>So if it's just audio/video, mpv+youtube-dl should do the trick :)
<mkoenig>yea :)
<mkoenig>does it support amazon prime video
<Jookia>Probably not given I think that requires a large amount of DRM, but you could check
<Jookia>I wonder why my grafts suddenly don't work well
<Jookia>I wonder where suitsmeveryfine has been
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<taylan>this was reported before, right? it's looping
<taylan>I wonder if it's because I ran 'guix pull' after a long time
<lfam>taylan: It's known:
<taylan>I see. will just have to wait a while then :)
<lfam>taylan: My nmap package doesn't have a working ndiff. I think I need to set the PYTHONPATH to point to the libraries in nmap's store directory
<lfam>I think it would be easily accomplished if I could apply some phases of the python-build-system. Is that possible?
<lfam>Or maybe it would be enough to just make a wrapper that points to ../lib/python2.7 or something like that. I wonder if the PYTHONPATH needs anything else?
<lfam>I bet if I solved this it would be easy to also build zenmap
<Jookia>Thanks Numix for not shipping source tarball releases
<Jookia>I wonder whether I should even build a theme from source- it compiles Sass to CSS, is that a binary?
<taylan>lfam: I messed around a lot and couldn't find a way to make the python modules work with zenmap. I think we need to apply a hack that I've seen in one other python package, let me try to find it again...
<lfam>taylan: It looks like you made ndiff work. At least for my basic test case
<taylan>gtklick in music.scm it is
<taylan>lfam: I guess it was just zenmap that didn't work then
<lfam>taylan: Do you have any idea what file to apply the substitution to? There's no string 'import pygtk' in the nmap source cod
<taylan>I don't know :\\
<lfam>I'll explore
<taylan>someone well versed with Python might know perhaps
<taylan>heh, just as my substitutions are done, Ludo pushes commits to fix the issue :P
<lfam>The zenmap README says it requires gtk+-2 and pysqlite2 as well as the other dependencies
<taylan>I figure adding pygtk provides gtk itself?
<lfam>You're right, it propagates gtk+
<civodul>taylan: the "updating substitutes" issue is not quite fixed but hopefully less bad ;-)
<lfam>taylan: For some reason adapting the gtklick substitution to work on 'zenmap/zenmap' cause a Guile backtrace
<lfam>I'll look more tomorrow
<Jookia>numix-theme packaged, now on to the icon set. Then patching lxappearance. Then my GTK theme rampage will be over.
<iyzsong>Jookia: cool, and thank you!
<Jookia>iyzsong: I'll probably push out a few grafts for people to test without losing substitutes, but the whole gdk-pixbuf thing still needs to be solved, whether by fixing libtool packaging behaviour or replacing gdk-pixbuf with the one most applications should use.
<iyzsong>yes, I think I'll leave it for next release.. with update to pixman, cairo, gtk+, etc.
<Jookia>Ah, so you'd go for the replacing-gdk-pixbuf solution?
<iyzsong>not decided, waiting replies from ML ;-)
<wingo>iyzsong: wdyt about the gnome / xfce services?
<wingo>morning / afternoon btw :)
<civodul>yeah we need your input on this, iyzsong :-)
<iyzsong>wingo: cool! I think the doc of services functions should be updated to the same as info.
<wingo>is the info node right or does it need a new top-level node?
<wingo>also i tried it of course :) and i have the suspend loop problem everyone else has -- when you shut the lid, it suspends, great. but when you open, it comes back to life only for an instant and then re-suspends. i guess some sort of inhibit / elogind issue
<wingo>haven't had time to track it down tho
<iyzsong>yep, I haven't look into that problem..
<wingo>probably the gnome metapackage should also include artwork too
<wingo>as it is, it starts up with a bright blue background :)
<iyzsong>sure, is it gnome-backgrounds? feel free to add it (I usually don't use GNOME...)
<wingo>i guess it is
<wingo>i will poke some more eventually
<wingo>have to fix that suspend problem first
<iyzsong>good luck ;-)
<rekado>note to self: be careful with where you point GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH at,
<rekado>pointed it at some directory containing lots of guile code and there was lots of funny output.
<civodul>heheh :-)
<rekado>This one, for example, woke me up: "guix build: warning: failed to load '(guile examples safe evil)"
<kristofer>is it possible to specify a different store location for guix system init /mnt? I ran out of disk space :-/
<iyzsong>kristofer: do you start the 'cow-store' service (if it's out of memory)? or you perhaps need to format a large partition and mount it on /mnt.
<kristofer>I don't have the cow-store service..
<iyzsong>if booted from the usb image, it should be there, the manual should tell how to start it (iirc, deco start cow-store). and if you install from an existed system, usually you don't need it.
<kristofer>I didn't boot from a usb disk
<kristofer>is there a package that includes the cow-store service?
<iyzsong>kristofer: no, it's a shepherd (was dmd) service, only in the live system of usb. what's the `df -h' output say about /mnt? maybe you just need to make a bigger one.
<kristofer>I see. 73.6G
<kristofer>sorry, 73.6G available /dev/sda1 mounted on /mnt, 52MB used
<iyzsong>that must be enough.. where do you boot from? it's '/' run out of space right?
<kristofer>yes, /dev/sdb1 is the boot partition currently
<iyzsong>ok, if it's not usb disk, maybe sdcard? but, which system is it, if you use the guixsd-usb-install image, 'cow-store' should be there.
<NiAsterisk>slightly OT, but I try to figure out why my 9cell battery does not last 4 hours or more, and I don't fully understnad the following in Overview of powertop: 100.0% Device Audio codec hwC0D0: Conexant
<NiAsterisk>but i don't think this is important, I see many options which can be tuned and are on "bad" currently
<civodul>good news: master had not been built for a couple of days on hydra(!) but it's now catching up
<roelj>civodul: Is that why there are/were no substitutes available for the latest git checkouts?
<civodul>roelj: yeah
<civodul>that's why we've all been grumpy over the last couple of days
<civodul>(i got particularly fed up this morning when my 'guix environment' threatened me with a texlive rebuild...)
<davexunit>I got that last night!
<davexunit>soooo frustrating
<davexunit>ACTION tries to write more slides for saturday's talk
<civodul>oh Saturday, right!
<civodul>shouldn't we announce it on the site?
<civodul>it looked far in the future to me, but in fact it's not
<davexunit>yes, we should!
<civodul>do you want to draft something?
<davexunit>I'll try
<davexunit>$dayjob starts now
<davexunit>so I'll poke at something during downtime
<civodul>sounds good
<roelj>civodul: I've gone through the texlive rebuild last night too ;)
<civodul>$dayjob is keeping us from doing $interestingstuff
<davexunit>I've learned a lot about how I want to improve software development from it ;)
<davexunit>don't know if I would have been so interested in Guix if I didn't run into all of the problems that Guix fixes every day at work.
<rain1>why does inputs have it twice?
<rain1>("thing" ,thing)
<bishopj>is there no proxy settings available yet for guix???
<rain1>I package a library called 'x' and now I want to package another library that uses it
<rain1>I tried adding it to inputs and native-inputs but it cant find the header files
<rain1>but i see the header files ls /gnu/store/*libx-0.4.15/include/x/
<rain1>wonder why it cant find them? I guess I can add a search path to gcc but normally you don't do this
<rekado>rain1: ("thing" ,thing) <--- the first is an arbitrary label, the second is the name of a value
<rain1>why do we bother then?
<rain1>maybe it would be easier to just list the values
<davexunit>civodul: submitted a news entry
<davexunit>would love a quick review and approval :)
<davexunit>tweak as needed. I hope I used the right markup.
<taylan>rain1: IIRC there's a few cases where it makes sense to be able to have a different label than the name of the variable
<rain1>i worked around the header include thing
<taylan>rain1: (I think the change was proposed before...)
<rain1>("python" ,python-2)
<rain1>I see this in some packages
<davexunit>yeah the label is totally arbitrary
<davexunit>but the label provides human-readable information for the derivation
<rain1>wonder if that readable string could be included and pulled out of the variable?
<rain1>maybe too late to change it
<rekado>I'm happy to see that users here are beginning to use Guix to install package variants that I haven't packaged myself.
<civodul>davexunit: excellent! published
<davexunit>civodul: thanks!
<civodul>the home page will be updated shortly
<civodul>rekado: what's the status of the icedtea-8 patch?
<mark_weaver>civodul: fyi, I'd like to push the linux-libre-4.5 update to master, and then redirect hydra to build it ASAP, if that's okay with you. I'm running it now. I kept linux-libre-4.4 as well, since it's an LTS kernel.
<mark_weaver>unfortunately, the 4.4 kernel needs to be rebuilt, because its config file name changed from linux-libre-<arch>.conf to linux-libre-4.4-<arch>.conf
<mark_weaver>to prevent this issue in the future, I changed things so that the major+minor version number is *always* in the config file names, and not just for the older kernels.
<mark_weaver>what do you think?
<mark_weaver>or we could just wait on this. I suppose there's no rush
<rain1> "LIBRE_MK=/gnu/store/nyji8qssj5vs3rx84xciklg70rpnjqrh-libre-0.4.15/share/re/"
<rain1>I have this inside a quoted list in a package definition
<rain1>my idea is to change it to: #~(string-append "LIBREMK=" #$libre "/share/re/")
<rain1>but must I use quasiquote ? and ,#~(...
<rain1>looks like a gexp error without qq and escape
<mark_weaver>rain1: iiuc, gexps can not yet appear in package definitions. that transition has not yet been made.
<rain1>but I get it with too
<rain1>oh okay
<rain1>how should I generate this string?
<mark_weaver>rain1: where in the package definition is this?
<rain1>I was only trying gexp because I saw it elsewhere
<rain1>it's inside (arguments '(#:make-flags
<mark_weaver>okay, then change that ' to a `
<mark_weaver>and then do ,(string-append "LIBREMK=" (assoc-ref %build-inputs "libre") "/share/re/")
<rain1>thank you!
<mark_weaver>here I'm assuming that "libre" is the string key corresponding to that input
<rain1>I'm not sure how to get rid of this: Unbound variable: %build-inputs
<rain1>I tried #:use-module (guix derivations)
<rain1>I see other packages use it..
<rain1>how could I found out which module provides it?
<mark_weaver>rain1: sorry, I made a mistake
<mark_weaver>rain1: see #:configure-flags in the 'python-pyzmq' package for an example
<mark_weaver>do what it does, except for make-flags
<mark_weaver>(in gnu/packages/python.scm)
<rain1>ah that's weird!
<rain1>it doesn't want to be escaped
<rain1>working now though!
<mark_weaver>it's a matter of when and where the code is executed
<civodul>mark_weaver: all sounds good to me!
<civodul>mark_weaver: is 4.5 known to fix vulnerabilities?
<mark_weaver>civodul: no, not that I know of
<mark_weaver>there's no rush
<rekado>civodul: the icedtea-8 patch is just sitting there. It works for me (and I think also for roelj), but there has not been an official release yet.
<civodul>ok, cool
<civodul>rekado: release of IcedTea itself?
<civodul>or of the patch?
<rekado>of IcedTea.
<rekado>I think the ugliest part is that it's downloading the tarball from my server because it cannot be downloaded from upstream.
<mark_weaver>rekado: is that because the server is violating the RFCs in some way that guile doesn't tolerate?
<rekado>mark_weaver: yeah, invalid header.
<rekado>I don't remember. Possible.
<mark_weaver>maybe we should add a 'wget-fetch' method for cases like this, until either the site can be fixed or guile is made more tolerant.
<civodul>yeah, though a couple of such issues have already been fixed in Guile
<civodul>wingo fixed one such thing recently, i don't remember if it was etag or something else
<rain1>What about replacing the pastebin link in topic with a link to a list of acceptable pastebins
<rain1>(pasted to an acceptable pastebin)
<piyo>very nice
<piyo>"<procyon_ember> piyo: Thanks, but the topic is still not helpful. Instead of ..." I dont have #guix ops
<NiAsterisk>rain1: also comes in useful. then you have 6 pastebins which should be more than enough.
<NiAsterisk>and it should not look like a recommendation or preference.
<NiAsterisk>eventually it would be nice to just have a pastebin client in guix which interacts with a handful of pastebins, so we can just be like "do guixpaste "command" " or whatever and done.
<procyon_ember>rain1: Seems better than having to ask in chat.
<NiAsterisk>rain1: like for example
<ehiggs>Hi all! I got guix built, installed, and running. I'm trying to build postgresql as an example, but I get an error: ERROR: In procedure module-lookup: Unbound variable: make-session
<ehiggs>this is based on 0.9.0 source tarball
<rain1>guix paste file.txt would be nice :)
<NiAsterisk>rain1: where wgetpaste is just one incredible long, and extendable, bash script
<civodul>ehiggs: looks like the postgresql source has moved to https, and GnuTLS is missing from the download environment
<civodul>ACTION looks
<civodul>hmm "guix build -S postgresql --no-substitutes" works for me
<civodul>ehiggs: could you past the whole thing?
<civodul>there were such issues with things coming from
<civodul>they have been fixed now, so you could run "guix pull"
<civodul>or just enable substitutes
<ehiggs>should guix pull always download master.tar.gz? Shouldn't it check that it already has it?
<NiAsterisk>imagine you get a damaged master.tar.gz
<NiAsterisk>I don't know the specifics, but this gets avoided through this behavior I imagine
<ehiggs>well it can pull the md5sum or sha-whatever and also do a http HEAD to check the timestamp
<roelj>That would save a lot of bandwidth..
<ehiggs>it should be checking hashes to compare it with some key somewhere anyway, right? to make sure the master tarball hasn't been tampered with.
<rain1>but how would you know the hash is not tampered
<rain1>would need to be signed
<ehiggs>sure. so you would hope the website hasn't been compromised. so don't host it on a wordpress site. serve the hashes over https. etc
<rain1>wordpress :D
<roelj>I wish Guix could provide some progress information when compiling.. Building stuff takes hours, and I would like to get some kind of indication of how long it is going to take..
<ehiggs>it's time for me to clock off and head home. ttyl
<piyo>roelj: iirc gentoo has a progress function but it needs previous runs data
<rekado>roelj: does the compiler provide such information?
<NiAsterisk>piyo: no. that's a tool you can use in gentoo which can keep track of build times, that's all
<NiAsterisk>average build times, total build times ,estimated buildtimes based on previous builds
<piyo>the latter
<NiAsterisk>no, all of them
<NiAsterisk>it wasn't a question, I use gentoo
<roelj>rekado: No.. I don't even see which packages will be built.. Each package consists of multiple source files, that all get compiled in a separate compile process (gcc)..
<NiAsterisk>well anyhow it keeps track of times. could be useful later, that's all.
<roelj>I added a license to my guix. Then pointed ~/config/guix/latest to the git checkout. Then recompiling a java package (that used to take about a minute) turns out to take more than 4 hours (and counting), because it seems almost everything is being recompiled.
<roelj>That's kind of unproductive.. :(
<piyo>NiAsterisk: I understand the nuance of your answer now, thanks.
<NiAsterisk>the only reason I mentioned it, is to add the correction that it is not a progress function with emerge, but with an external tool which is separate from the whole emerge system.
<bavier>this package I'm working on comes with pre-built docs in its tarball, but I'd rather build them from source, unfortunately they require the full texlive to build, ugh
<rekado>roelj: is your git checkout up to date?
<roelj>rekado: I'm at 10b4a969beb6e5ae22faa314ba9ef5a2ea7639b1 (gnu: htsjdk: Use ant-build-system)
<rekado>and before switching ~/.config/guix/latest?
<roelj>A "guix pull" from about 20 hours ago
<roelj>rekado: By the way, all my JARs seem to fail somehow.. I'm going to investigate it further later this evening.
<roelj>(when I can build the packages again ;))
<rekado>worked for all my jars.
<civodul>bavier: well, if that's what it takes to build doc, go for it
<sneek>Welcome back civodul, you have 1 message.
<sneek>civodul, rekado says: I once played around with d3. Would you like to have the "guix graph" command be enhanced to optionally output JavaScript code that could be used with d3? Even if we don't have d3.js packaged for Guix yet?
<civodul>rekado: sure!
<roelj>The only difference from what I have done is.. I didn't use the #:make-flags "-Ddist=...", but instead (replace 'install ...) and "manually" copy the jar to the right place.
<bavier>civodul: I appreciate the vote of confidence :)
<civodul>rekado: when d3 is packaged, we could even have 'guix graph' spawn $BROWSER with an html page
<civodul>bavier: yw :-)
<davexunit>heh, don't hold your breath. ;)
<civodul>bavier: hopefully users will get substitutes and won't even notice ;-)
<davexunit>5 "development" dependencies.
<davexunit>"development" is in quotes because NPM is completely wrong.
<davexunit>they are what we could call native inputs, what the user needs to build from source.
<davexunit>which we know aren't just for developers.
<davexunit>5 deps isn't so bad, but I can only imagine how deep this dependency tree goes.
<davexunit>but this may serve as a good initial target for dealing with javascript
<davexunit>since it has a direct benefit for us
<davexunit>like you said, we could have a derivation whose output is a small static site using d3 to render a dependency graph
<davexunit>I think that would show off the great power of guix to web dev folks
<davexunit>which reminds me... our node package badly needs an update. I tried awhile ago and ran into issues.
<davexunit>need to take another stab.
<civodul>davexunit: BTW, news has it that we'll see a live 'guix deploy' demo to a 100-node cluster at LP, is that right? :-)
<davexunit>civodul: hahaha
<davexunit>need more time for that one ;)
<davexunit>I have some thoughts along those lines that I need to write up for review some time.
<davexunit>having used Chef and looked at Ansible and NixOps, I have a pretty good idea of what I think are mistakes that I wish to avoid with 'guix deploy'
<jesaispas>i came few days ago to see if it's a good idea to install GuixSD as main system. And i come again X)
<civodul>davexunit: heheh, sounds good :-)
<civodul>LP 2017, then ;-)
<davexunit>basic criteria: decentralized (i.e. nothing like Chef server), "stateless" (i.e. no state file like NixOps), light on workstation resources (don't build systems on the workstation, offload to cluster, use substitutes to optimize)
<jesaispas>is GuixSD crashes very often?
<davexunit>bleh, the number of "runtime dependencies" for d3's "development dependencies" is 47
<davexunit>and each one of those will have "development dependencies"
<davexunit>so I think we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg here
<civodul>jesaispas: there are things that don't quite work, but other than that it doesn't crash more than another GNU/Linux
<rain1>civodul, did you se my suggestion about the topic
<civodul>ah yes
<jesaispas>civodul, hmm, okay.
***civodul changes topic to 'GNU Guix | | videos at | 0.9.1 is in the works | | paste to | channel logged: <>.'
<jesaispas>" Support for the Logical Volume Manager (LVM) is missing. " does it mean that we can't use LVM even if it's for a data partition?
<rekado>jesaispas: I'm using LVM for my home partition.
<rekado>(on GuixSD)
<jesaispas>oh : O
<NiAsterisk>hm. did I comment on the server thread and mention that OVH is too much of an insecurity for me and that my only server related thing will be introducing GuixSD to IN-Berlin once we/I could use it on production servers and get it on my own server there?
<civodul>rekado: how so?
<wingo>civodul, mark_weaver i fixed the etag issue on master, haven't merged to stable-2.0 tho
<wingo>it is cherry-pickable, it just wasn't convenient at the time to do it
<mark_weaver>wingo: ah, thanks!
<civodul>i think i merged it in stable-2.0
<wingo>hehe cool :)
<civodul>just not in the Guix backports
<wingo>distributed consensus requires multiple rounds it seems :)
<mark_weaver>heh :)
<jesaispas>i can't find system requirements : /
<alezost>jesaispas: system requirements are the same as for any other GNU/Linux system.
<jesaispas>20G for root partition is okay then?
<NiAsterisk>if you don't plan on collecting as much garbage through developing with it like I do, yes
<alezost>jesaispas: oh, you mean a size for the store. I think it's OK, but more is better :-) I was using 30G for about a year; just do "guix gc" when you need space
<NiAsterisk>/gnu/store/ is like 25GiB here
<NiAsterisk>in ~4 months I think
<NiAsterisk>or 3?
<NiAsterisk>hard to tell when all is dating in the 70s
<NiAsterisk>if you just use GuixSD as a system as a user, 20GiB is reasonable enough. I use less than 10 GiB on gentoo with a full Plasma 5.5.5, for orientation.
<NiAsterisk>guix is 44GiB, most of it in /gnu/store/ I guess
<jesaispas>i'm a bit lost with the manual, i think i haven't got knowledge
<jesaispas>for guix yes
<NiAsterisk>where are you stuck? any stuck is helping to fix problems with the manual :)
<davexunit>jesaispas: anything specifically confusing? GuixSD is still a distro for advanced users, but in time we want to make it accessible to all computer users.
<jesaispas>i'm lost for the post-install. I guess i could follow the Arch wiki but packages names are different : /
<davexunit>what do you mean by "post-install"? the arch wiki won't be particularly helpful.
<jesaispas>the way to get graphical interface for exemple.
<NiAsterisk>what is your config.scm so far?
<NiAsterisk>or however you named your system config
<jesaispas>NiAsterisk, ?
<davexunit>jesaispas: have you installed arch before? if you can handle that, then you can handle GuixSD.
<NiAsterisk>sorry. the file you used in the step to guix system init
<jesaispas>i used Arch for few months
<jesaispas>NiAsterisk, Guix is not installed yet
<davexunit>for me, GuixSD was much easier than Arch because it does pretty much everything automatically instead of me having to do everything by hand.
<rain1>jesaispas, I took some personal notes on post install and related things -
<rain1>to get graphical interface you just need to use the desktop system configuration
<rain1>you don't have to manually install xorg or anything ilke that
<jesaispas>i will make a break for wikis and read this seriously after then : )
<jesaispas>i will play on Guitar Hero and rage quit. I'll be finally able to understand something XP
<jesaispas>++ guys for more questions!
<NiAsterisk>++ ?
<NiAsterisk>"thanks" ?
<davexunit>we don't mutate variables around here ;)
<rain1>i pacakged a program for guix which uses pulse audio but it fails to make a connection
<NiAsterisk>rain1: that's one bad wiki.. I thought it's clone able, but the repo is empty.
<rain1>I'm trying to give it pulse as a native input instead
<NiAsterisk>bad in I can't clone, that's all
<rain1>you can clone it
<davexunit>rain1: won't make a difference
<NiAsterisk>warning: You appear to have cloned an empty repository.
<rain1>hmm alright
<davexunit>it would just break cross-compilation.
<rain1>I'll see if there's configure flags
<NiAsterisk>oh, i need to clone the wiki... ah
<JeanLouis>rain1: I suggest GNU Free Documentation License for your notes.
<rain1>oh yeah ill add that
<jesaispas>just to be sure, Guix is a project of GNU foundation?
<davexunit>there is no GNU foundation
<davexunit>but it's a GNU project, yues.
<jesaispas>i didn't know how to call that : )
<JeanLouis>GNU is Not Unix -- it is operating system.
<JeanLouis>free one
<jesaispas>The best... ; P
<JeanLouis>I am using GNU because of free software philosophy, not because I want to use my hardware with some software.
<jesaispas>Since i discover the distro' recognized by the FSF, i want only free software : )
<JeanLouis>yes? Me too. Before maybe 10 days, I did not even know about it. My brain was washed...
<jesaispas>and since today, i have only hardware which not required non-free firmware : D
<suitsmeveryfine>jesaispas: you don't have mobile phone either?
<JeanLouis>really? Like me, before some days, I went 3 times out to buy wifi dongle, now I am using external one.
<jesaispas>suitsmeveryfine, not a smartphone. Technology....geeeeh X)
<JeanLouis>I have mobile phone, Nokia, new version of old one, and turned off.
<suitsmeveryfine>jesaispas: but an older model that still uses proprietary firmware, right?
<JeanLouis>my wife is fine with me to use talkie-walkie...
<rain1>JeanLouis, done! hopefully people will make their own edits and stuff
<jesaispas>suitsmeveryfine, yeah.
<suitsmeveryfine>That's what I did before and thought that was OK but not ideal. I've since moved over to Replicant.
<JeanLouis>rain1: nice to make docs free.
<jesaispas>i re-install my Debian on my notebook and after i'll read seriously Guix(SD) manual : )
<JeanLouis>But I have Twilio, I receive calls, and use SIP to call people. No privacy basically. Receiving and sending SMS, no problem.
<JeanLouis>jesaispas: I am still on Debian and using guix packages for most needed software. It is possible to learn before switching.
<jesaispas>with my phone i just call (rarely) and text. But i don't really go outside so...
<suitsmeveryfine>I'd like to have Replicant on a device that doesn't have a modem and only talk to people when connected to wifi.
<JeanLouis>jesaispas: I cannot go outside, doors are permanently closed. This is prison.
<rain1>RMS recommended one way pagers
<JeanLouis>no, joking...
<suitsmeveryfine>rain1: do they even sell them any longer?
<rain1>not sure
<jesaispas>JeanLouis, Human being created handful : )
<JeanLouis>well, I receive SMS or voice mail. Nobody knows where I am. Then I call back people.
<suitsmeveryfine>I remember that my oncle had one in the mid 1990s
<jesaispas>90s...the last great decennary
<JeanLouis>When people inquire from all time zones, and I am single-handed, I would be awaken by calls, makes no sense.
<suitsmeveryfine>I would like to have offline maps working in Replicant. That would be useful I think.
<jesaispas>no EFI support yet on Guix, right?
<suitsmeveryfine>jesaispas: no, but Jookia is looking for people who are willing to try a patch to make it work.
<JeanLouis>suitsmeveryfine: when I am in the bush in Africa, no charging devices are of use. Just paper maps.
<suitsmeveryfine>JeanLouis: yes, then paper maps are better of course, unless you have access to solar power or something.
<jesaispas>suitsmeveryfine, i installed Arch on UEFI system, but i don't think that it will be usefull : /
<rain1>you can try guixsd out in qemu
<suitsmeveryfine>jesaispas: what do you mean?
<suitsmeveryfine>It would be useful to the project :)
<jesaispas>suitsmeveryfine, you can see how to install grub on UEFI system on the archwiki
<jesaispas>you need grub and efibootmgr (i think that the last one is to create EFI files)
<JeanLouis>maybe openstreetmaps works offline? I don't know, it is new world for me. I killed Google yesterday.
<rain1>JeanLouis, I think lfam is working on a guix package for it
<JeanLouis>for maps?
<jesaispas>erf, wrong window
<JeanLouis>I was never cookie-aware, not I am using the add-on with tab-life cookies.
<jesaispas>i never read about cookies. I have to.
<JeanLouis>I have paid >$6,000 to read people's cookies, and serve advertising to them. I quit.
<NiAsterisk>expensive cookies.
<NiAsterisk>cookie monster would lack the word to describe the noms.
<NiAsterisk>CSI:Cyber is the best new hacker comedyseries. /me ends offtopic
<rain1>my pulse audio demon seems to die
<rain1>I wonder why/if it has something to do with guix
<rain1>is there a reason to have pulseaudio in your system configuration rather than as user?
<wingo>my pulseaudio also dies sometimes
<wingo>i have to restart it manually which is weird
<rain1>I see this in my /var/log/messages [pulseaudio] main.c: pa_pid_file_create() failed.
<rain1>I'm not sure fi that's why it died, but maybe?
<rain1>it could be trying to create a file that it can on other distros, but its not possible in guix - my guess
<rain1>I'll try changing the pid file path if i can find out how
<davexunit>pulseaudio runs as your unprivileged user, so I doubt it would be trying to write to anywhere that it can't
<rekado>civodul: the LVM setup is a left-over from my Fedora days. When the machine has booted I manually unlock the encrypted partition and mount it, then log in.
***NiAsterisk is now known as krosos
***krosos is now known as NiAsterisk
<civodul>oh, ok
<civodul>pulseaudio seems to work fine here
<wingo>ACTION pushed gnome service thing
<wingo>still friggin rebuilding tho
<wingo>no luck with substitutes these days
<wingo>i have probably built more web browsers with this thing than when i worked on web browsers full-time
<civodul>yeah hydra was lagging behind master
<civodul>heh :-)
<civodul>oh, thanks for the gnome service thingie!
<civodul>roelj: hello!
<civodul>roelj: would you like to change packages.js so that it uses the right scheme (http vs. https) based on the current URL?
<wingo>thank you for guix :)
<civodul> available over https \\o/
<civodul>21st century!
<jmarciano>oh yes, privacy
<roelj>civodul: I will have a look
<roelj>civodul: Got it, creating a patch now.
<roelj>civodul: Should I send it to guix-devel?
<roelj>civodul: Oh I see. Done.
<civodul>ACTION looks
<civodul>roelj: it works!
<roelj>civodul: Cool!
<civodul>hey, lfam
<roelj>Thanks for setting up HTTPS on hydra!
<civodul>lfam: https all around, crazy stuff :-)
<civodul>yeah at last!
<civodul>i'm glad Let's Encrypt exists
<roelj>There are still some logos loaded via HTTP.
<roelj>I think it would be better to host them on the GNU web page, so no external connections (except for have to be made.. It will probably speed up the page load a bit as well.
<suitsmeveryfine>Hi! I experienced an enormous slowdown of my system with the linux-libre 4.5 upgrade. Anyone else?
<suitsmeveryfine>On the MacBook2,1 to be precise.
<civodul>ACTION hasn't switched yet
<suitsmeveryfine>Also, what do I need to do to keep using the 4.4 kernel -- first build from master and then downgrade the linux-libre package?
<civodul>roelj: yeah but we get the logo URLs from elsewhere
<pizzaiolo>suitsmeveryfine: slowdown? like how?
<roelj>civodul: That could betray the visitor because it's a unique pattern of connections being made when visiting that particular page.. ;) Regardless of https or http.
<suitsmeveryfine>pizzaiolo: Gnome 3 is extremely laggy!
<suitsmeveryfine>It's really fast on 4.4
<pizzaiolo>I'm still on xfce but I'm not with my guix machine atm
<civodul>roelj: you mean vis-à-vis the sysadmin?
<suitsmeveryfine>I've installed GuixSD on my desktop machine also where I have Xfce.
<pizzaiolo>I shall try the new kernel this week
<civodul>roelj: well yeah, a nearby eavesdropper could guess...
<pizzaiolo>suitsmeveryfine: do you have the latest kernel there?
<suitsmeveryfine>pizzaiolo: since you have the same computer as I do that is not recommended :)
<rain1>i should give gnome a shot
<suitsmeveryfine>pizzaiolo: no, but I'm building from git right now.
<pizzaiolo>ok, should be interesting to know the results
<suitsmeveryfine>pizzaiolo: brightness controls now works in Xfce without sudo
<pizzaiolo>jookia has been doing a lot of work helping me theme xfce
<suitsmeveryfine>but don't try to press the brigtness keys in Gnome 3 -- it will freeze the system!
<suitsmeveryfine>or rather you'll get a popup that's impossible to close.
<civodul>ACTION thought the problem of the brightness key was that it did nothing
<suitsmeveryfine>civodul: yes, but now you get asked for an admin password
<civodul>and then it freezes?
<civodul>sounds like an improvement (?)
<pizzaiolo>suitsmeveryfine: have you tried compiling pommed-light?
<civodul>ACTION -> zZz
<civodul>good night/day!
<suitsmeveryfine>pizzaiolo: I don't think that we'll be needing that package actually
<pizzaiolo>suitsmeveryfine: why is that?
<suitsmeveryfine>those things should be fixed in some other way
<suitsmeveryfine>I'll now test the brightness keys on the 4.4. kernel to see if the system will not freeze this time.
<suitsmeveryfine>Right: the popup window appears but I can now close it with escape.
<suitsmeveryfine>In other words: the 4.5 kernel is not good on the MacBook2,1
<pizzaiolo>I'll wait for your git compilation on your desktop to be sure
<suitsmeveryfine>How would you be sure? That computer has very different hardware?
<lfam>taylan: The same zenmap error, reported 6 years on Windows 7:
<suitsmeveryfine>mark_weaver: Do you know what needs to be modified to use a different kernel?
<suitsmeveryfine>linux-libre version that is
<lfam>suitsmeveryfine: Since the 4.4 kernel is still in the tree, all you need to do is put it in the (kernel ...) field of your system configuration
<lfam>You might need to add that field since it's not required
<lfam>That is, if you want to stay on 4.4. Otherwise, you can create a new package that inherits from linux-libre but changes the version
<suitsmeveryfine>lfam: I see. There is no kernel field in my OS defintion. I guess that means that I need to add it.
<lfam>Yes. I suppose that if the field is not there, you use the latest version of linux-libre by default
<suitsmeveryfine>I see. So I just add (kernel "linux-libre-4.4")
<suitsmeveryfine>or is it maybe "linux-libre-4.4-x86_64"?
<suitsmeveryfine>The manual doesn't say what, only "linux-libre"
<lfam>I don't know off hand. Could you try it and see what works?
<suitsmeveryfine> (kernel "linux-libre-4.4") seems to be working.
<suitsmeveryfine>Thank you!
<suitsmeveryfine>no, wait, it didn't
<suitsmeveryfine>Hmm, "linux-libre-4.4-x86_64" also didn't work.
<lfam>suitsmeveryfine: How about (kernel linux-libre-4.4)?
<lfam>The manual doesn't show it in quotes
<suitsmeveryfine>lfam: I think that I need to modify linux.scm
<suitsmeveryfine>and there change the version from 4.5 to 4.5
<suitsmeveryfine>4.4 I mean
<lfam>There already is a linux-libre-4.4 in linux.scm
<lfam>At least on the current HEAD
<suitsmeveryfine>no matter how I write "linux-libre-xxx" I get this error: "ERROR: In procedure struct-vtable: Wrong type argument in position 1 (expecting struct): "linux-libre-4.4.5" (or "linux-libre.4.4", etc.)