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***Acou_Bass_AWAY is now known as Acou_Bass
<Jookia>If anyone here is using Xfce or GTK, could they check out my latest patch in guix-devel? It fixes the themes looking ugly
<Jookia>NiAsterisk: I also packaged font-noto
<JeanLouis>how do I load IRS in emacs?
<JeanLouis>IRC, sorry, not the tax office.
<JeanLouis>at least I have compiled emacs, even if gdk-pixbuf is not working, I can run with emacs -nw
<JeanLouis>I am trying to install my own mutt package. Someone suggested it like this: but it fails due to gdbm or other database required. How do I include gdbm in that file? I should put (inputs somehow, tried, but failed... need help
<alezost>JeanLouis: check your mail, I've sent another message explaining how to do it :-)
<JeanLouis>oh, my personal mail, let me check.
<alezost>JeanLouis: not personal, here it is:
<JeanLouis> I have done like this.
<alezost>JeanLouis: you have odd ) after (gnu packages mail)
<JeanLouis>oh yes, yes
<JeanLouis>alezost: this looks to me like nice way to make own packages
<JeanLouis>I mean modified versions
<alezost>to me too! that's why I use it :-)
<JeanLouis>nice, it is working now.
<JeanLouis>but most important, I have the sample definition for that.
<JeanLouis>how do you load guix as module in guile, that I can ,describe function?
<JeanLouis> /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER JeanLouis dpypmjfqtddx
<JeanLouis>I gues it failed
<alezost>oops, time to change the password :-)
<JeanLouis>it is not my password, just verification
<alezost>with ",use (some module)" but it is likely that guix modules will not be found. Try ",use (guix)", do you get a message that module is notfound
<JeanLouis>not found
<alezost>to make guix modules found by guile, you need to set GUILE_LOAD_PATH and GUILE_LOAD_COMPILED_PATH appropriately
<alezost>alternatively, you can install guix and guile into your user profile (guix package -i guix guile) and source $HOME/.guix-profile/etc/profile. Those variables will be in this etc/profile
<JeanLouis>yes yes
<JeanLouis>yesterday I have contacted the VPS provider, and told them that I want GuixSD based VPS. I got an answer that it is interesting, and that users shall write here: the proposals. So please write there that we like to have VPS based on GuixSD.
<JeanLouis>or add your comments here and vote, tell that you want it:
<JeanLouis>as I want to run httpd on GuixSD, not on Debian
<Gamayun>Very nice JeanLouis :)
<JeanLouis>guix package -i guix, failed with: FAIL: tests/gexp.scm
<JeanLouis>Gamayun: I hope you leave a comment on the link
<Gamayun>Will do.
<alezost>JeanLouis: so you still have not found the way how to use substitutes?
<JeanLouis>alezost: I did, first few packages were downloaded, like mutt,bash, emacs or gdk-pixbuf not. before few minutes, I have just finished compiling, of -i guix
<JeanLouis>actually did not finish it
<JeanLouis>it fails on test
<alezost>JeanLouis: what is the output of "file ~/.config/guix/latest"?
<alezost>JeanLouis: it is very probable that one of the tests is failing (it happens from time to time), but the point is: guix should have been downloaded from hydra
<JeanLouis>lrwxrwxrwx 1 admin admin 55 Mar 11 06:58 .config/guix/latest -> /gnu/store/bxccy4afnsaxfdy57hkr19gyv52l981x-guix-latest
<JeanLouis>file .config/guix/latest
<JeanLouis>.config/guix/latest: broken symbolic link to /gnu/store/bxccy4afnsaxfdy57hkr19gyv52l981x-guix-latest
<JeanLouis>how to link it and to what, if I don't have "guix-latest" in /gnu/store
<alezost>broken link!?! try "guix pull"
<alezost>do you have any problems with guix pull?
<JeanLouis>as root or user?
<alezost>did you run "file ~/.config/guix/latest" as root or as user?
<alezost>do guix pull for the same user as you run "guix package -i ..."
<alezost>JeanLouis: that link appears after "guix pull". Actually it shouldn't be garbage collected, but did you run "guix gc" or maybe did you remove/edited anything in /gnu/store manually?
<JeanLouis>it was empty /gnu when I started
<JeanLouis>and guix pull stops at: unpacking '/gnu/store/ckw7ad2i18r6makx3wszc4bm64rj7yhp-guix-latest.tar.gz'...
<alezost>apparently, at some point (after "guix pull") you had /gnu/store/bxccy4afnsaxfdy57hkr19gyv52l981x-guix-latest and now you don't have it, so it was deleted somehow
<alezost>hm, strange, could you break it and try "guix pull --verbose"
<JeanLouis>I am now trying as root, it works, by hoping that user will be able to re-use it
<alezost>JeanLouis: no, you have to run it as user
<alezost>sorry, I have to go :-(
<JeanLouis>.config/guix/latest: symbolic link to /gnu/store/pz3jr513fibd5f19l4cf5bg9fg3y0y3g-guix-latest
<JeanLouis>guix pull, worked after root's guix pull
<JeanLouis>what could be the reason that just any package -i by user stops working forever?
<suitsmeveryfine>a_e: Hi! Your setup with encrypted / except /boot worked fine on a T60 with libreboot, but when I moved the disk to a BIOS computer it did not. Then I was not asked to enter a password before GRUB was loaded and after that I was unable to boot the linux-libre kernel since / remained encrypted.
<roelj>What's up with hydra?
<roelj>Is it completely offline now?
<suitsmeveryfine>It seems that way. I tried using the mirror which also didn't work.
<roelj>Is there any working mirror available?
<piyo>"too many open connections" to
<suitsmeveryfine>I was able to complete `guix pull` earlier, but `guix system init` was impossible.
<piyo>is master.tar.gz a cacheable thing?
<rain1>this gstreamer-properties program seems like it might be useful
<rain1>I was also wondering if PULSE_SERVER variable might be relevant ot icecat not having sound?
<joeyh_>cehteh, bavier: happy to help with any git-annex build problems
<cbaines>(yay :) looking forward to having git-annex available through Guix)
<joeyh_>btw, I'll be at LibrePlanet next week, if someone would like to say, pair program on a haskell library packager
<rain1>I just installed ant
<rain1>$ ant -> Error: JAVA_HOME is not defined correctly. We cannot execute java
<rain1>this error when trying to run it though
<roelj>rain1: You can set the JAVA_HOME path to point to the JDK (which is icedtea-7, or you could try gcj)
<rain1>I'm installing icedtea now
<roelj>rain1: rekado also posted a patch for (the yet unreleased) icedtea-8 which provides openjdk-1.8.0.
<suitsmeveryfine>rain1: Hi! I think there is an error in your installation guide
<suitsmeveryfine>The part about formatting and mounting the file systems
<rain1>oh thank you!
<suitsmeveryfine>Do you see it?
<rain1>let me see..
<rain1>thanks! fixed
<suitsmeveryfine>Yes, that looks right.
<rain1>I really liked your idea about an installer, might try to work on that a bit at some point
<rain1>if it was good it could eventually be included it guix so people can just get it while installing
<mark_weaver>roelj, suitsmeveryfine: hydra should be happier now
<suitsmeveryfine>mark_weaver: nice, I see it.
<mark_weaver>the texlive-texmf substitute really kicks its ass. it packs and compresses the nar file on-demand, and it takes about 3 hours to do it.
<suitsmeveryfine>Did you chop off one of her heads?
<mark_weaver>there's an nginx caching server in front, but texlive-texmf is not added to the cache until the transfer is complete, 3 hours later.
<mark_weaver>if multiple people request it before it's in the cache, then multiple concurrent processes work on packing and compressing it
<mark_weaver>and furthermore, nginx is configured such that even if the downloader aborts the download, the packing still continues in the background
<mark_weaver>so, if someone gets impatient and cancels the texlive download and tries again, then there are two concurrent packing jobs
<mark_weaver>if they repeat this, then there are 3 concurrent jobs, then 4, then 5, and that's the maximum
<paroneayea>joeyh_: oh interesting / compelling
<paroneayea>(though I don't know enough about haskell to be of use probably)
<mark_weaver>after that, for 3+ hours, hydra's web interface is DOA
<paroneayea>but i guess I could help on the scheme end!
<mark_weaver>this packing+compressing on-demand is just terrible
<mark_weaver>it really needs to be redone
<joeyh_>paroneayea: that was my thought; I don't know much about scheme or guix
<joeyh_>(although I saw some fosdem talks that touched on this automatic packaging)
<joeyh_>btw, I'm around from Thu on
<rain1>What should I set JAVA_HOME to?
<rain1>ls /gnu/store/*-icedtea-*-jdk
<rain1>gives me two results
<rain1>picking one randomly worked
<rain1>I wonder if the package could be changed to provide that environment variable
<paroneayea>joeyh_: cool, maye you could also come to spinachcon? We'll be showing some people how to come up to speed on mediagoblin but honestly I think I'll be spending most of the time hacking.
<suitsmeveryfine>rain1: In your guide I suggest that you change the recommended partition sizes (2GB each). Somebody might be led to believe that these sizes are good for GuixSD.
<suitsmeveryfine>You can actually just not mention the sizes at all.
<roelj>Do we have support for Java Native Interface (JNI) in Guix?
<roelj>Oh I see, it should be part of icedtea
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***Acou_Bass_AWAY is now known as Acou_Bass
<JeanLouis>rain1: where is your guide, please...
***Acou_Bass is now known as Acou_Bass_AWAY
***Acou_Bass_AWAY is now known as Acou_Bass
<rain1>next i want to figure out uuids I think
<JeanLouis>that looks nice
<JeanLouis>why you need uuid? To put it in /etc/fstab?
<rain1>uuid might let use avoid using device names
<rain1>in which case it can work even if disks are moved around, hopefully
<Acou_Bass>heey guys, ive got a query... im using xfce but i cant seem to select any themes in the settings at all, nothing changes when i select one
<Acou_Bass>i know its not exactly a game-breaking bug but just curious if theres a fix available :P
<rain1>i tried to use guix-all-available-packages in emacs mode but I get this error now
<rain1>guix-ui-read-profile: Symbol's value as variable is void: guix-current-profile
<rekado>Acou_Bass: this is because GTK+ only reads themes from one location. You could set GTK_DATA_PREFIX to /run/current-system/profile before X starts (e.g. in your .xsession file) and then install the themes into your system profile.
<Acou_Bass>hmm... interesting
<rekado>a patch has been proposed to patch GTK+ to look for themes in ~/.guix-profile (for user-installed stuff) and in the system profile.
<Acou_Bass>i usually put my themes in ~/.local/share/themes
<Acou_Bass>but yeah i see the point of doing that
<Acou_Bass>weirdly my new themes (put in the above dir) DO show up
<Acou_Bass>they just dont do anything when clicked
<rain1>export GTK_DATA_PREFIX=/run/current-system/profile
<rain1>that's what I use
<Acou_Bass>then where do you drop your themes? in that same file?
<rain1>I haven't installed any extra custom themes
<Acou_Bass>ahh ok, but that at least allows the default installed ones to be chosen :P
<rekado>I guess you could also link the theme directory from somewhere in ~/.guix-profile to ~/.local/share/themes, but I don't know what the best solution is here. Ideally, we'd want this to just work without user intervention.
<Acou_Bass>would be nice obviously ;D i was just curious to see if there are any workarounds already in place (such as the one you already mentioned) - i understand there are more important things though ;D
<rain1>does the env variadlbe accept multiple paths separated by : ?
<rain1>like PATH
<rekado>rain1: no.
<rain1>that makes it a little harder I think
<rekado>rain1: that's why we see the need to patch GTK+.
<rain1>do you think they will accept this chaneg?
<rekado>we can just do this locally.
<rekado>we already do this for GUIX_GTK2_PATH and GUIX_GTK3_PATH.
<rain1>I might ask the help-guix mailing list about icecat sound
<rain1>I'm not sure if anyone has figured it out though
<rekado>rain1: it just works for me :-/
<mark_weaver>rain1: it's strange, because sound has always worked for me in icecat, and I think you're the only one who has reported it not working.
<mark_weaver>not sure what's up with that
<Acou_Bass>what things are you using to make sound?
<Acou_Bass>err, that was a weird way of wording that... but like, what sites/videos/files?
<Acou_Bass>hmm... weirdly emacs actually follows my chosen GTK Theme (and i havent actually added the thing to .xsession as suggested earlier) XD just seems to be xfce that doesnt wanna do it
<mark_weaver>Acou_Bass: is GTK_DATA_PREFIX set for emacs but not for xfce4 processes?
<Acou_Bass>i have no idea
<Acou_Bass>ive not changed anything
<mark_weaver>Acou_Bass: did you set GTK_DATA_PREFIX anywhere?
<Acou_Bass>i dont even have my usual .emacs pulled over yet
<Acou_Bass>not that i know of.... hence my confusion :P
<mark_weaver>okay, then I don't know :)
<Acou_Bass>fair enough
<Acou_Bass>does emacs use gtk3 or 2 do you know?
<Acou_Bass>hmm maybe gtk3 applications 'just work' then but xfce is still on 2 isnt it so maybe its that that needs fixing but 3 is OK
<mark_weaver>guix package -s '^emacs$' will show you the inputs
<mark_weaver>Acou_Bass: ah, that's an interesting thought. maybe!
<Acou_Bass>yepp depends on gtk+-3.18
<Acou_Bass>lets see if anything else depends on that, see if they 'just work'
<Acou_Bass>window manager theme works too... the plot thickens
<mark_weaver>that's probably a very different mechanism
<mark_weaver>(although I confess my knowledge of weak in this area)
<mark_weaver>*is weak
<Acou_Bass>yeah i honestly have no idea how this stuff actually works under the hood
<efraim>samba CVE update pushed
<mark_weaver>efraim: thank you!
<mark_weaver>there are known vulnerabilities in libtiff and openjpeg, but apparently no one has yet produced fixes for them :-/
<mark_weaver>makes me consider going into text-only mode for a while :-(
<efraim>how does it work with links -g?
<rain1>Am I the only one for who sound does not work in icecat?
<Acou_Bass>it would seem so - i tested it when you mentioned it a bit ago and it seems to work for me
<mark_weaver>rain1: so that we're trying the same tests, can you try playing "The Emacs of Distros" video on with icecat?
<rain1>I have that playing and there is nothing showing up for it as a stream in pavucontrol
<rain1>eval $(guix package --search-paths=prefix)
<rain1>I do this in my bash profile
<rain1>that sets a GST variable
<mark_weaver>efraim: how does what work with links -g? it's been many years since I played with links, so I'm not sure what that command does. graphics mode?
<mark_weaver>okay. what's the answer to my first question?
<mark_weaver>rain1: on GuixSD, /etc/profile takes care of loading $HOME/.guix-profile/etc/profile, which should do the right thing.
<mark_weaver>I'm not sure that "eval $(guix package --search-paths=prefix)" is quite desireable.
<rain1>I will remove it
<rain1>let me log and in again with that change
<rain1>hm still not working
<rain1>video and sound works in midori though
<rain1>I wonder if icecat build needs some extra propagated-inputs
<mark_weaver>rain1: I wonder if you're doing something in your dot files that's messing things up
<rain1>I don't think I've added anything that makes it not work because it's never worked
<rain1>I could be missing something that is needed though
<mark_weaver>is icecat installed in your user profile?
<mark_weaver>okay, same here
<mark_weaver>maybe run it in strace and see what it's trying to do with sound
<rekado>FWIW, I don't have pulseaudio installed.
<rain1>I see many failed attempts to read a
<rekado>I'm just using plain alsa.
<rekado>rain1: do you have an ~/.asoundrc ?
<rain1>and xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin
<rain1>no I don't
<rekado>is pulseaudio working for you in general?
<rekado>it's just that icecat isn't using pulseaudio, right?
<rain1>midori browser can do all the things
<rain1>I installed
<rain1>but icecat was looking for 4yrdcz0fpk0z2wwwl3wkfszpx28ay42y-xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin
<rain1>so this might not do anything
<rain1>I think I need this specific 4yrd version
<rekado>rain1: could you try starting icecat like this: FIREFOX_DSP="padsp" icecat
<rain1>maybe I can remove and reinstall ice cat and it will know the right thing
<rekado>I don't see how the xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin could have any effect on this.
<rain1>that's all I see about pulse in the strace
<rain1>I tried thatpadsp thing, no effect
<rekado>ACTION downloads the icecat sources
<rain1>I did try t obuild it from source but the way mozilla abuses C++ is so horrible
<rain1>it crashed g++
<mark_weaver>rain1: did it not eventually successfully load ? in general, when looking for shared libraries, it will search for it in many different directories before it succeeds.
<rekado>when it uses, however, it won't work as the PulseAudio daemon has control over the sound card.
<rain1>I'll check, maybe I should also install libasound
<rekado>you don't need to install it
<rekado>it's among the inputs of our icecat package
<mark_weaver>fwiw, I don't have in any of my profiles (user or system)
<rain1>yes it eventually finds and loads asound
<rekado>wow, the icecat sources are big
<rain1>yeah it's a catastrophe
<rain1>oh well if it's only me that has this problem it doesn't matter very much
<rain1>for some reason I assumed it wasn't working most places
<mark_weaver>looking in /proc/<ICECAT-PID>/maps, I see that, and are all linked
<mark_weaver>rain1: do you see that as well?
<rain1>no I don't!
<mark_weaver>rain1: it might be that you did something unusual that broke things, but it's also possible that you didn't and that others will eventually hit the same problem. I'd like to find out what's going wrong here.
<mark_weaver>rain1: which ones are missing?
<rain1>it has asound 3 times, but no pulse anything
<mark_weaver>pulseaudio is in my system profile
<mark_weaver>maybe icecat depends on that
<rain1>maybe I should remove pulse audio
<rain1>then reinstall it as root ?
<rain1>or add it to my config.scm ?
<rain1>can you tell me about system profile?
<mark_weaver>installing things as root just put them in /root/.guix-profile which will only be useful to root
<rekado>FIREFOX_DSP is a debian thing. Our Icecat does not honour it.
<mark_weaver>I have 'gnome' in the 'packages' field of my OS configuration. gnome includes pulseaudio as a propagated-input, so pulseaudio ends up my system profile
<rain1>I will try this and do a system reconfigure
<mark_weaver>rain1: or just add 'pulseaudio' to the packages field and reconfigure. that might be enough
<mark_weaver>and then relaunch icecat
<JeanLouis>rain1: your guide, Encrypted Home, is that something to run before installing Guix?
<mark_weaver>if this turns out to be the problem, I can arrange for icecat to find the pulseaudio libs without it being in any profile
<rain1>JeanLouis, this is my notes on what I did during installation (while on the guixsd live USB) -- I will add a note clarifying that! ty
<rekado>rain1: how do you use the pulseaudio daemon without having it installed in a profile?
<rain1>I had installed it with guix package -i
<rain1>I just removed it now though
<rain1>I'm doing guix system reconfigure
<JeanLouis>rain1: is your swap encrypted too? /tmp ?
<JeanLouis>swap shall be encrypted and /tmp, I prefer to use something like /tmp-guix for guix building, to have it faster, than on /tmp
<rain1>JeanLouis, there is no swap -
<JeanLouis>flushq is not working on erc
<JeanLouis>no swap in Guix?
<rain1>in my notes
<rain1>I think if you care about encrypting swap and tmp you should
<rain1>not use that guide
<JeanLouis>That is starting point.
<JeanLouis>ok do you have /etc/crypttab?
<rain1>Jookia said some very interesting points about encrypted guixsd
<rain1>in particular the way guix is, initrd must be stored in the /gnu/store which must be readable by everyone
<quiliro>what do ou guys think about systemd?
<mark_weaver>I see that icecat uses dlopen to load
<mark_weaver>(from media/libcubeb/src/cubeb_pulse.c)
<mark_weaver>that indicates that we should explicitly link it in, as we do for other libraries that are dlopen'd
<mark_weaver>(see the 'arrange-to-link-libxul-with-libraries-it-might-dlopen' phase in our 'icecat' package)
<JeanLouis>quiliro: I guess GuixSD is using herd or shepherd. Not systemd.
<mark_weaver>although in this case, the OS_LIBS field might belong in media/libcubeb/
<mark_weaver>quiliro: we can't use systemd because we aim to support the Hurd, and systemd is specifically designed for Linux
<mark_weaver>(the kernel)
<mark_weaver>also, we think that in the long run, implementing our init daemon in Guile will be a win for us, even though at present we are missing many features that systemd has.
<mark_weaver>rain1: any luck getting sound to work in icecat?
<rain1>updating substitutes 62.0% ... should have used a mirror
<mark_weaver>rain1: another possible workaround might be to run "LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$(guix build pulseaudio)/lib icecat"
<mark_weaver>although that's just a temporary hack until we can fix this properly
<rain1>ill kill this and switch it to a mirror
<mark_weaver>I'll be curious if that makes much difference
<mark_weaver>if it's slow, it's probably because things aren't yet in the nginx cache
<rain1>"substitute: updating list of substitutes"
<rain1>what does this actually do
<rain1>i will probably be best reading the source code
<mark_weaver>that's when its fetching the narinfo files
<mark_weaver>which are small, metadata only, with signatures
<rain1>I guess it must be getting thousands of them?
<mark_weaver>and they are cached locally
<mark_weaver>no, not thousands. they correspond to files/directories in /gnu/store/
<mark_weaver>but when they're not in the nginx cache, they need to be dynamically generated on, which is currently a very slow and overloaded VM
<quiliro>mark_weaver: thks
<quiliro>for the info
<rain1>would it do as many as things I have in ls -1 /gnu/store/ | wc ?
<quiliro>very instructive
<mark_weaver>rain1: narinfos are fetched for all things that will be needed in /gnu/store but are not already there
<mark_weaver>quiliro: np!
<rain1>i see
<mark_weaver>and the current 'grafts' code, which now does its job correctly but suboptimally, causes some problems, e.g. not printing what will be done ahead of time anymore, and updating the list of substitutes many times, etc.
<mark_weaver>at least in the case where what you're asking to build depends on something that has been grafted.
<mark_weaver>the problem is that making grafts efficient enough required knowing the set of *runtime* dependencies of the packages involved, and not just the set of *build* dependencies. but the runtime dependencies are not known until we have the build outputs available to us.
<mark_weaver>so, currently, when computing each graft derivation, it fetches the substitutes for that package and its dependencies so that it can find out the set of runtime dependencies.
<mark_weaver>see for more on this
<JeanLouis> mark_weaver: I knew herd is for hurd-like setup.
<JeanLouis>mark_weaver: once before many years I installed hurd
<JeanLouis>is it going to work with some laptop and X?
<mark_weaver>JeanLouis: herd is actually unrelated to the Hurd. it's a program in the shepherd package, which is our init daemon.
<JeanLouis>you said it is prepared for Hurd
<mark_weaver>one of the reasons we can't use systemd is because systemd is heavily Linux-specific, and we want to support the Hurd also.
<JeanLouis>do you have hurd system on some computer?
<mark_weaver>not at present. phant0mas is working on our Hurd support
<mark_weaver>Debian GNU/Hurd has working X and even things like desktop environments, iirc.
<phant0mas>JeanLouis: I am currently working on merging the wip-hurd branch with master
<phant0mas>and yes Guix runs on Hurd :-)
<mark_weaver>however, I don't think there's support for wireless networking yet, last I knew.
<mark_weaver>but #hurd is a better place to ask these questions
<JeanLouis>oh yes. I want to support it. I am waiting for Hurd since long time.
<mark_weaver>I'm also interested in the Hurd. I hope to find time to play with it more at some point.
<phant0mas>mark_weaver: JeanLouis currently I have deployed Guix on darnassus, plus mine and Justus' hurd machines
<phant0mas>mark_weaver: whenever you have time tell me to help you set it up on a Hurd machine :-)
<phant0mas>btw I am working since yesterday on the avr toolchain
<mark_weaver>phant0mas: thank you!
<phant0mas>and I am really not sure if I know what's wrong
<mark_weaver>phant0mas: I'm currently using my Libreboot X60 as my main machine, because my X200 has hardware problems. However, when I get a working X200 again, I was hoping to repurpose my X60 as a Hurd machine.
<JeanLouis>phant0mas: and wifi with atheros ?
<phant0mas>JeanLouis: I don't think so
<phant0mas>at first I built an avr toolchain outside guix
<phant0mas>it works perfectly
<phant0mas>then I used the same configurations with the same sources on guix
<phant0mas>but when I try to link I get "skipping incompatible ..when searching for .."
<phant0mas>something is getting build for the wrong architecture somewhere
<JeanLouis>wired connection works?
<phant0mas>JeanLouis: yes
<JeanLouis>any list of packages which work with Hurd? Like PostgreSQL?
<phant0mas>JeanLouis: on debian hurd I think it's around 90% of the normal debian packages
<phant0mas>on Guix I am working on getting all of them:-)
<phant0mas>mark_weaver: keep in mind that the Hurd is slower on bare-metal machines than on a vm, because files read-ahead is not implemented :P
<phant0mas>I have Hurd on both bare-metal and vms, and the second is waayyy faster
<mark_weaver>phant0mas: heh, maybe if more devs ran Hurd on bare metal, read-ahead already be implemented :)
<mark_weaver>*would already be
<phant0mas>mark_weaver: I hope that my work may inspire more people to get involved :)
<rain1>I don't understand why guix system reconfigure is taking so long
<rain1>I did guix pull and package -u earlier today
<rain1>so why is it installing tar ?
<rain1>I'm sure i already have that
<mark_weaver>rain1: what user did you run "guix pull" as?
<rain1>should i be doing that as root in future?
<mark_weaver>"guix pull" sets the $HOME/.config/guix/latest symlink. it only affects the user that ran it.
<mark_weaver>running it at root, likewise, will only update guix for the root user
<ajgrf>is the nixpkgs importer working atm? i just tried and got this:
<mark_weaver>one trick you can do, to avoid having to run it as both root and your normal user, is to make ~/.config/guix/latest a symlink pointing to /root/.config/guix/latest, or vice versa.
<rain1>ajgrf, recently someone else was asking about ledger - i think there is a package for it on git somewhere
<mark_weaver>what I do is make both of those symlinks to my build git checkout of guix
<mark_weaver>and I never run 'guix pull'.
<mark_weaver>*built git checkout
<JeanLouis>what is the name for other mirror but not hydra?
<mark_weaver>if we had a FAQ, this would surely be in the top 5 things that confuse people about Guix. each user has their own copy of Guix.
<JeanLouis> hostname and DNS are configured, the cronjob should run and get the cert.
<JeanLouis>thanks efraim
<janneke>it would be nifty if guix pull would actually do a git fetch & rebase
<mark_weaver>janneke: one problem is that occasionally 'make' doesn't rebuild everything that needs to be rebuilt.
<mark_weaver>my method is to 'git pull --rebase' and then 'make', and that works 99.9% of the time and is very fast. but occasionally I need to 'make clean-go && make'
<janneke>hmm, that could be scripted
<janneke>i am worried that git and make are not available to `guix pull'
<ajgrf>rain1: thanks, but that was just an example. i'm asking partly because i don't even know if i was invoking guix correctly
<mark_weaver>the failure mode is not always easily detectable
<Acou_Bass>phant0mas: guix runs on hurd?? i knew it was a work in progress but saying it actually runs is interesting... how could i test that?
<Acou_Bass>(would it be as simple as making a new config.scm with a certain line in it then reconfiguring from that?) XD
<mark_weaver>Acou_Bass: Hurd is not yet supported on the 'master' branch of Guix, and iiuc there are not yet bootstrap binaries in the standard place, etc. at present, it's a work-in-progress, but is working on phant0mas's machine :)
<Acou_Bass>good to know
<Acou_Bass>i definitely want to give that a blast if/when its supported in guixsd
<phant0mas>Acou_Bass: you can help me test it, but you are going to have some loong builds :-)
<mark_weaver>similarly, I have GuixSD running here on a MIPS-based Lemote Yeeloong laptop, but the necessary changes are not yet merged into master.
<Acou_Bass>uh oh
<Acou_Bass>how long are we talking...? my laptop is so underpowered it takes a full night to build the standard guix/linux install... XD
<phant0mas>Acou_Bass first of all you will need to run guix and the builds on a Hurd vm/machine
<phant0mas>and it all depends on how fast your cpu is :P
<Acou_Bass>my desktop has a good CPU, so maybe that could work for a VM test
<Acou_Bass>but i wanted to test it on my laptop with guix already installed =) XD
<phant0mas>Acou_Bass: when you have time to play with it, send me an email so I can guide you through :-)
<Acou_Bass>ACTION takes down phant0mas' name for next weekend;D
<phant0mas>ACTION cheers :-D
<JeanLouis>why I cannot connect with icecat to
<mark_weaver>JeanLouis: we fixed that at least a week ago. you must be running a very old Guix.
<mark_weaver>which means that you are running with security holes
<JeanLouis>aha, well icecat is not yet from Guix, I guess I got it directly.
<mark_weaver>yes, it's an upstream bug that I reported and fixed in our local package
<JeanLouis>ok I will make it happen.. now even substitutes work from mirror
<mark_weaver>I can tell you how to fix it in about:config, but I really think you need to update for the sake of not getting hacked.
<phant0mas>ACTION waves goodnights
<mark_weaver>sleep well, phant0mas!
<JeanLouis>yes? where is bug report?
<mark_weaver>JeanLouis: this is my commit:
<mark_weaver>but also note the critical security updates since then:
<JeanLouis>oh yes, thnks much
<mark_weaver>and here's where I reported it upstream:
<mark_weaver>unfortunately, upstream IceCat is slow to update after Mozilla releases a new version of Firefox 38 ESR.
<mark_weaver>so every time a new 38 ESR is released, I need to cherry-pick patches from the upstream repo and apply them
<mark_weaver>in short, I'm sorry to say that using IceCat outside of Guix is not safe
<mark_weaver>(unless you use our IceCat patches)
<rain1>I don't think icecat is good
<rain1>someone else should take over.. but who would want to do it
<mark_weaver>rain1: what problems do you see other than the slow updates?
<JeanLouis>oh yes, it works now, thanks mark_weaver
<mark_weaver>JeanLouis: you're welcome!
<rain1>just that
<mark_weaver>well, I cover for that issue in Guix
<JeanLouis>icecat is FSF endorsed, I use it for freedom + privacy, more politically
<JeanLouis>it was all just to help someone with the link from
<mark_weaver>because I use IceCat as my main browser, and I'm very concerned about the security of my system, and am aware that modern web browsers are most likely the best way to hack into my system from outside.
<mark_weaver>epiphany is another decent browser that we have in Guix.
<JeanLouis>mark_weaver: too easily, addons hide foreign code
<rain1>do you have any thoughts on containers or maybe even using a VM to a run browser inside?
<JeanLouis>I have seen on iceweasel: being injected somehow
<rain1>I did this with lxc in the past
<mark_weaver>rain1: sure, I think that's definitely worth working on
<rain1>I have the midori browser on guixsd too, I have heard that webkit is quite secure but i think there are also problems
<mark_weaver>I would probably consider switching to epiphany, but I require features similar to those provided by NoScript and Cookie Monster
<mark_weaver>i.e. I do not want to be running any Javascript code that I can avoid running, and I don't want to be picking up huge numbers of cookies.
<mark_weaver>at this point, it's the main thing keeping me on IceCat.
<rain1>I like to set browser to delete cookies on close
<rain1>but some recent things have made this problematic
<JeanLouis>yes, with LibreJS
<ringst>I don't know about webkit in general, but I've heard terrible things about webkitgtk
<mark_weaver>ringst: what have you heard about webkitgtk?
<ringst>Lots and lots of security bugs
<mark_weaver>it would be good to work on actual information and not just vague rumors
<rain1>"After years of security improvements made by Apple, Google, and other companies and communities, WebKit became one of the most secure engines amongst web rendering engines. The security improvements mainly focused on reducing the number of critical vulnerabilities such as Use-After-Free, heap overflow"
<mark_weaver>fwiw, wingo does a lot of work on javascript implementation for multiple browsers, adding features to popular browsers than clients wish for, and here are some of his thoughts on browser security, expressed recently on this channel:
<rain1>Yeah the main point of icecat is so that its not using the firefox logo and stuff
<rain1>but he also added some extra things and turned off stuff
<mark_weaver>among other things, he opined: "i think [epiphany] is of equivalent safety to firefox stable. more safe than icecat i think because it uses webkitgtk which makes more frequent releases which benefit from upstream webkit security work."
<mark_weaver>"i.e. when compared to ESR."
<mark_weaver>"and, the multi-process work in webkit is closer to having containerized web and network processes"
<mark_weaver>"which is the feature which puts chromium head-and-shoulders above the competition in this regard"
<ringst>This is interesting, thank you
<ajgrf>is there anything to say about chromium or torbrowser in guix?
<mark_weaver>anything added to Guix needs to comply with the GNU FSDG, for one thing.
<mark_weaver>chromium has a lot of problems in that regard.
<mark_weaver>and another thing is that chromium is another one of those projects that loves to bundle huge numbers of libraries, which makes security updates a nightmare for us.
<mark_weaver>that's one thing I love about epiphany. no bundled stuff as far as I can tell.
<ajgrf>like what FSDG issues? the GNU FSDG don't seem too different from the Debian DFSG and they managed to package chromium
<mark_weaver>they are actual quite a bit different
<JeanLouis>mark_weaver: absolutely
<mark_weaver>the most likely issues are: suggesting that the user downloads non-free software, or pointing the user to directories of plugins that include non-free ones, or violating user privacy by sending too much information to google (e.g. every keypress made in the address bar)
<rain1>I just wanted to report that adding pulse to my system configuration and rebooting did not fix sound in icecat
<mark_weaver>I haven't looked into it recently, so I'm not sure which of these issues applies to chromium.
<mark_weaver>rain1: okay, thanks for trying.
<mark_weaver>rain1: can you try "LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$(guix build pulseaudio)/lib icecat" ?
<rain1>thanks for going over it with me!
<JeanLouis>last 10 minutes I was searching for guix guile source, could not find it. Where is it?
<ajgrf>okay, so probably issues with chromium's functionality rather than licensing
<mark_weaver>I don't remember off-hand is dlopen consults that variable.
<rain1>that makes sound work! :O
<mark_weaver>rain1: that's good! anyway, I can see now what the problem is, so I'll try to get around to fixing it properly soon.
<rain1>oh thats fantastic!
<JeanLouis>guix-0.9.0/share/guile/site/2.0/guix/scripts this?
<mark_weaver>git clone git://
<JeanLouis>thanks, I must learn how to make command line arguments in guile
<rain1>ACTION updated personal notes
<rain1>also I may like to remove pulseaudio from my system configuration now
<rain1>since if I can just install it as a regula package that seems preferable
<rain1>what do you think?
<mark_weaver>rain1: sure
<mark_weaver>anyway, this is just a temporary workaround until we fix it properly
<JeanLouis>Could not compile gdk-pixbuf, now I get emacs without visible buttons: I tried with -i emacs from mirror, but what to do? I got gdk-pixbuf binary. but still no buttons
<rain1>I don't understand this
<rain1>why is it getting this
<rain1>I just did reconfigure
<rain1>it's weird to me, now it's getting automake
<rain1>aren't these all in the gnu store already
<mark_weaver>rain1: did you either run "guix pull" as root or make ~root/.config/guix/latest a symlink to ~YOUR_USER/.config/guix/latest ?
<mark_weaver>well, then you're probably downloading old packages
<mark_weaver>guix system reconfigure needs to be run as root, so it uses the version of guix that root has
<mark_weaver>each user can have their own version of guix, which is actually a feature, even if it's a bit confusing and not always what you want.
<mark_weaver>if you want USER_SLAVE to use the guix of USER_MASTER, then make ~USER_SLAVE/.config/guix/latest a symlink to ~USER_MASTER/.config/guix/latest and then you'll only need to run 'guix pull' as USER_MASTER
<rain1>i don't understand why it is dowloading all these things though
<rain1>I did guix system reconfigure as root before
<mark_weaver>and what did you change in between?
<rain1>nothing except remove pulse from my config.scm
<mark_weaver>in your OS config
<mark_weaver>rain1: did you become root in a different way the two times? e.g. with different flags to sudo/su?
<rain1>I think I used sudo -i both times
<mark_weaver>it uses the version of guix in $HOME/.config/guix/latest, if that symlink exists. so if HOME was set differently in the two invocations, that would affect it.
<rain1>ill cancel it just now because i need to go
<mark_weaver>okay, ttyl!
<rain1>see you :)
<mark_weaver>I never use sudo/su, so I wouldn't know
<paroneayea>mark_weaver: never? :O
<mark_weaver>and also my ~root/.config/guix/latest and ~mhw/.config/guix/latest symlinks point to the same place
<_`_>mark_weaver: how do you escalate? logging into the root account in a tty?
<mark_weaver>paroneayea: well, almost never. I log in as root in a text console.
<paroneayea>ah ok