IRC channel logs
2016-03-06.log
back to list of logs
<dmarinoj>Does anyone know if we want to use asdf in the common lisp build system for guix? <paroneayea>I wonder if this could be a path towards more guix-compatible laptops <paroneayea>gave a live demo of guile-emacs AND Guix at the emacs hackathon! <ryouma>guix getting good takeup these days? <ryouma>i use debian; if i ever switch distros it will probably be guix <piyo>you could pre-test guix on debian, try out "foreign guix" <piyo>the emacs I'm using to irc you right now is guix's emacs, but on debian 8. <CompanionCube>ACTION should see how much of his system could be guix-ified <CompanionCube>I suspect it's increased now that I don't rely on an obscure display manager <piyo>but guix probably wants more people to test guixsd, so try that too? <CompanionCube>ACTION might also kludge GuixSD to work as a Bedrock Linux Strata <efraim>what's wrong with libreoffice that it wants gtk and gtk3 <jmd>How do I install gtk+-2 ? <efraim>to specify it as an input you'd put ("gtk+-2" ,gtk+-2) or ("gtk+" ,gtk+-2) <jmd>When running guix package -i I mean. <iyzsong>I don't follow the development of this new style syntax, but it seems the old one "gtk+-2" don't work any more ;-) <jmd>iyzsong: I see, thanks. <jmd>How can I force a package to rebuild locally ? <iyzsong>jmd: I think 'guix build foo --check -K' should do it. it rebuild foo, compare the contents, if they're mismatched, the new one's build directory are keeped (with or without -K, the new one won't replace existed one in store). <janneke>how can i select an ouput, eg: (gcc "lib") in (operating-system (packages ... <iyzsong>there are no way to select an package output for the 'packages' field now :-( <janneke>ACTION probably has to specify separate packages then :-( <janneke>or dive in deep an try to understand "packages" <iyzsong>it's assumed as a list by profile-service-type, which use package->manifest-entry. <iyzsong>maybe we should treat different outputs as different 'packages'? our package is now like debian's source package.. <janneke>iyzsong: possibly...i could live with gcc => all == (gcc:out gcc:lib gcc:doc) <janneke>hmm...gnu/system.scm advertises: (packages operating-system-packages ; list of (PACKAGE OUTPUT...) <NiAsterisk>paroneayea: and you want to run GuixSD (nexdock) on some external device? as I understand the nexdock this is how it would work. <NiAsterisk>"iyzsong jmd: guix package -i gtk+@2" coming back to the devel thread I have not read up on the thread that started it in bugs, do you specify this in the package or is this some autoconversion happening from $PN-$PV to $PN@PV ? <iyzsong>NiAsterisk: I think it's only for the command line UI, commit 1b846da8 did that. <NiAsterisk>here's a thing which is really bothering me on debian: each openssh update overwrites keys I generated with stronger and more individual preferences if I don't set +i on the files. does guix replicate that, or would I be able to generate new, individual ssh_host_* files and keep them that way? <iyzsong>janneke: modify packages->profile-entry to use 'packages->manifest' should do it, patch sent :-) <jlicht>are people using the guile-wm on top of guix? <iyzsong>dunno, I tried guile-wm but failed to configure it.. want to try again ;-) <jlicht>In some sense, a system that is configured across the board using lisp family of languages seems nice :-) <jlicht>and stump is sadly a bit overkill <NiAsterisk>if there was something equivalent to awesome-wm, I would switch.. I tried most window and desktop managers but always came back to awesome-wm <iyzsong>I use xmonad with little customize, floating support is weak, otherwise I'm happy. <iyzsong>also we have sawfish in guix, but its tilling support is weak :( <janneke>jlicht: I tried guile-wm and it started... <janneke>ACTION used sawfish for quite some time <SusWombat>iyzsong, can i install xmobar also under guix? (sry im a bit confused right now about what is possible and what not) <janneke>I could not get guile-wm to start under Debian... <SusWombat>I mean i dont know haskell ^^ but xmobar sounds interesting too <iyzsong>SusWombat: xmobar is not packaged yet <iyzsong>of course you can, actually I install xmonad from nix on GuixSD.. <iyzsong>you can package xmobar for guix or install it from your host (or nix) package manager. <NiAsterisk>i probably just like awesome-wm because I got used to the keybindings and getting it into a form I where I will not change anything anymore. <SusWombat>NiAsterisk, tbh awesome is the best twm ive seen so far in regards of the ootb experience <Gamayun>Hm, the AUR guix package is failing the test suite for me at the moment. Seems to be the url for substitutes? <Gamayun>Ah, I know why. Our ISP's useless DNS… -.- <Jookia>I also ran ReactOS in a VM in QEMU on GuixSD on a Libreboot RYF machine. For ultimate irony. <Jookia>NiAsterisk: free software windows reimplementation, though i haven't done a full license check on it so i wouldn't suggest it. unknown if they include blobs or use nonfree compilers <SusWombat>NiAsterisk, i think this is the thinbg which aims for full win32 compatibility <Jookia>After I set up Tor I'll have a go at fixing GTK theming <rain1>Yesterday I tried to do guix with encrypted /home <rain1>it was weird though it didn't boot at all <Jookia>rain1: Hmm, if you could show me your system configuration I'll have a think about it. Did you try specifying it was needed-for-boot? <rain1>oh I ddidn't needed-for-boot? <rain1>but home isn't needed is it? it wouldn't go into grub <Jookia>SusWombat: How are you getting along? <rain1>it's just it takes a long time to go through the whole install process <SusWombat>Jookia, not far just paused atm ... its soooo slow :/ <Jookia>SusWombat: In qemu? Did you try using --enable-kvm ? <SusWombat>Jookia, like 10 minutes for updating the substitute list <jlicht>Is there some kind of minimum regarding specs you need to run and hack on GuixSD comfortably? <Jookia>jlicht: Define what you mean 'comfortably', a lot of us just use Librebooted thinkpads <Jookia>jlicht: Though personally I loathe laptops :P <jlicht>I mean not having to clear my weekend schedule and stay home when glibc is being upgraded ;) <jlicht>or any other package that triggers lots of rebuilds <rain1>maybe have a go with the mirror <Jookia>jlicht: Grafting might help with that, but do you mean editing packages or updating versions? <jlicht>Jookia: updating versions, mostly <Jookia>jlicht: Well, if you update glibc you're going to have a fun rebuild, but there's lots of ways to make it less fun <jlicht>Coincidentally, where did you guys get your Librebooted thinkpads? <Jookia>You can generally get them from minifree.org <Jookia>Though I just got a second hand one and flashed it myself <Steap>Hey! I'm inside a "guix environment", and "echo $PATH" returns "/gnu/store/x276qi3qdbfp8xnxx8088ncvbady7p68-profile/bin" <efraim>about slow machines and hacking, i'm using an x120e with an amd-e350 <Steap>does guix environment now generates a temporary profile? <Steap>I seem to remember it would just set PATH to a list of paths <Steap>one for each package on the command line <Jookia>efraim: Well, I've hacked on NixOS using the i.MX6 ARM board and put up with a lot of rebuilds, so I'm not too phased about long compile times <NiAsterisk>and if I would've discovered that powerbanks exist, I wouldn't have bought the t400.. i just bought it for the larger battery you can get. <rain1>How do you use guix with qemu? <rain1>I have this command line but its not good: qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -cpu host -m 1024 -hda my_guix.img -hdb guixsd.usb -boot menu=on <jlicht>Thanks. I'd rather avoid ebay as well, so I think I'll just be on the lookout in thrift stores etc <rain1>Jookia, yeah. I can select hdb from the boot menu and it says grub then error no such device and a ID string <Jookia>hmm, try flipping the devices around. screenshotting the error would be helpful too <rain1>what i was doing before was letting the usb thing be hda, but that's actually really bad <NiAsterisk>jlicht: smaller/bigger internet based stores are good too. if you don't want to return laptops, laptopsbilliger.de or what their name was is good in germany for example. (but their return policy sucks: power adaptor broken? oh, you have to send us the whole laptop to exchange it) <rain1>because i can't remove the USB key without my disk changing from hdb to hda <rain1>and this stops it being able to boot <Jookia>Have you tried not writing /dev/hdb in Guix and instead /dev/disk/by-uuid/... <jlicht>NiAsterisk: are you referring to notebooksbilliger.de? <rain1>minifree.org seems good but i haven't boutght from them yet <NiAsterisk>i can understand the prices of minifree since it takes a good amount of time to disassemle, flash, reassemble. <rain1>Jookia, oh but i read you have to use /dev/sd[x][n] for crypto <jlicht>I understand, but 400+ euros is not just some money that I (and most students around me) have lying around ;-) <Jookia>paroneayea: While you're here, do you have a working PulseAudio setup? <paroneayea>rain1: there's a couple things to do to set up the x200 minifree with guix; if you get one, feel free to ping me <rain1>this part: However, when a file system’s source is a mapped device (see Mapped Devices), its device field must refer to the mapped device name—e.g., /dev/mapper/root-partition—and consequently title must be set to 'device <paroneayea>and rhythmbox seems to laucnh pulseaudio on its own and stuff <rain1>I was going to post to the guix help mailing list about ice cat today <Jookia>I wonder if Pulse should run as system? <paroneayea>Jookia: I didn't do anything other than put it on the profile <Jookia>I'll see how NixOS does it then maybe craft up a service <rain1>I just wanted to say that my midori package has working sound with e.g. youtube <Jookia>I might recall wrong but I think pulse likes to be run as a user <rain1>I don't understand how it does and icecat doesn't <rain1>but the funny thing is, since my encrypted guix died.. i did a reinstall <rain1>and now midori still has sound.. but the video is blank now <NiAsterisk>how do I uncommit the last 2 commits again so I can merge the 2 changes into 1 patch <paroneayea>wingo: I've successfully rebased robin's elisp branch on top of master :) <Jookia>NiAsterisk: You can just rebase it <Jookia>Is there a way for me to find out what a herd service file runs? Like, the scheme code <Jookia>Yes but I need to see what it is at runtime <Jookia>I'm having errors and I'm not sure where the code to run my service is since I'm using gexps <SusWombat>Jookia, i think i simply put guix on hold again for a few weeks/month again maybe the situation gets better. Its just to frustrating atm and holds me back from learning stuff i have on my todo <SusWombat>So this might be the best solutioin for now atleast in my opinion <jlicht>I'm trying to install guix from git on arch, and getting several failing test when running `make check` <jlicht>Both tests/derivations.scm and test/monads.scm seem to fail <jlicht>Would it be prudent to find out why this happens, or can I postpone this? <Jookia>Hmm, try an older git revision if you can, or the stable package to see if the test still fails <jlicht>Jookia: I'll try an older git revision. Is there any CI/status page where one could find this information for the latest revisions? <jlicht>Jookia: my poor intel Atom cpu is thankful <Jookia>I build guix-git on my eeepc a while back <jlicht>Exactly what I'm trying to do as well ;-) <jlicht>out of curiosity, why has guix-git not been successfully built since 2013-02-22 21:28:26 on hydra.gnu.org? <lfam>rain1: Are you still having QEMU trouble? <lfam>I saw in your command line that you didn't set up the network. GuixSD won't boot inQEMU if you don't set up the network. The current version of the manual (in git) has instructions on how to do that. Let me know if you still need help. <lfam>I'm not sure about the issue with multiple volumes, but the kernel itself will panic during init without networking <lfam>This assumes you generated the VM image with the Guix tooling. I'm not sure if the networking requirement can be avoided if you generate the image some other way. I haven't tried that <petter>ACTION hopes N isn't approaching infinity <lfam>wingo: ...are you working on making the shepherd use cgroups? <lfam>Ah, still interesting work though <rain1>I have to run this command each time I boot guix: ssh-add ~/.ssh/rain1_ed25519 <rain1>is there a place to put it to do it automatically? <rain1>~/.bash_profile does not work <rain1>is there a good alternative? <efraim>is .profile supposed to work also? <efraim>bash_profile never worked for me <rain1>i don't think its normal place, but it's what i tried <mik_>anyone here have experience installing guixsd on gpt or with efi? <Jookia>mik_: I don't have an EFI machine but from what I know you can make it emulate legacy BIOS which will load it fine <wingo>efraim, rain1: echo ". ~/.profile" >> ~/.xprofile <lfam>I'm trying to build the static versions of util-linux libraries, for use in static btrfs tools, but my code keeps failing. Here is the patch: http://paste.lisp.org/+6MJG <lfam>I can't even build the .go file. <lfam>Can somebody take a look and help me figure this out? <wingo>lfam: what error do you get? <lfam>While trying to compile linux.scm: <lfam>ERROR: In procedure primitive-load-path: <lfam>ERROR: In procedure scm_lreadr: gnu/packages/linux.scm:481:65: illegal character in escape sequence: #\\. <lfam>65 is the last character of the regex: $ <lfam>The regex *does work* with `find . -regex ...` <lfam>Perhaps I need to make the lib dir... <wingo>there are two levels of escaping here <wingo>the first is escaping characters in a string <wingo>the second is escaping tokens in the regexp <wingo>\\. is not a valid escape in a string <wingo>does that make any sense? :) <lfam>Yeah, that makes sense wingo <wingo>i didn't see it either, embedded regexps in most pl's are terrible :) <lfam>Jookia: To provide a fsck tool that can be used at early boot. I'll keep building the dynamic versions <lfam>Jookia: I don't know for sure if this is the right path, but I'm trying it anyways <lfam>Heh, that explains the warnings nckx was complaining about <lfam>Well, this is a good exercise anyways <lfam>My first time setting up multiple outputs <Jookia>I also don't think static linking helps because the initramfs copies everything :P <Jookia>On that note, btrfs doesn't work in Guix anyway <Jookia>*shrug* Maybe it was related to LVM+LUKS but btrfs didn't mount, only ext4 worked <lfam>You might want to ask nckx about his experiences. He has apparently created and used btrfs partitions on GuixSD <Jookia>As boot though? ;) Yeah, sounds like a good idea <Jookia>I suspect it's something to do with Guile's mount function <lfam>I also have submitted a few bugs reports regarding btrfs / Guix on foreign distros <wingo>civodul: interestingly on guile 2.2 that unbounded recursion would have gone on a lot farther ;) <wingo>the vm stack limit is on the whole a bad thing but it does catch runaway recursion at least <lfam>I'm not sure if that's useful or not <Jookia>fsck for btrfs would do basically nothing <lfam>Jookia: At the very least, we should have that no-op fsck.btrfs they describe, to silence the warnings at boot <Jookia>lfam: I don't know about that either <lfam>It's described in the link I just posted <marusich>Does anyone know what the format of the argument to the command-line option --substitute-urls is? The manual says it's a list. Is that substitute-urls=a,b,c or --substitute-urls=a b c or --substitute-urls="a b c" or --substitute-urls="(a b c)" or something else? I'm not sure how to always make the command download something, so it's a little tricky to figure out. <Jookia>lfam: yes but i think it'd be better to just have guix know if it's btrfs and skip based on that <lfam>Jookia: Patch forthcoming? <lfam>Jookia: We should do *something* <Jookia>lfam: I couldn't figure out something elegant enough <janneke>when trying to use an ssh:// url for git-fetch, I get: Cloning into... <janneke>error: cannot run ssh: No such file or directory <lfam>janneke: Do you have an ssh client in your profile? <lfam>Git does not propagate one for you <lfam>janneke: I solved this by installing openssh <wingo>civodul: may i push the gnome-desktop-service / xfce-desktop-service patches? did they need renaming or something? <wingo>something needs to add those polkit files; i think iyzsong was concerned about package duplication but that's not a huge issue afaiu, and if you need to override the precise version of e.g. gnome-settings-daemon it is a parameter of the service <wingo>not unlike other services that depend on packages <wingo>or that reference packages, rather <lfam>Now that my regex-containing-code compiles, I must debug why it has no effect on the output :) I think that 'pk' can print the value of a variable? <janneke>lfam: ssh remote 'type -p ssh' shows /usr/bin/ssh <wingo>lfam: yes, pk prints out all of its arguments and returns the last one <janneke>git clone works, just not from guix build -f <wingo>low-tech debugging; my favorite kind :) <wingo>janneke: probably the ssh package is missing from the environment that is set up in the guix-daemon <wingo>the environment in which the fetch is made is minimal, unlike your user environment <civodul>wingo: i think iyzsong & i thought they would need either renaming (to reflect they don't provide a full desktop environment, but just lower-level services), or changes to actually provide the whole desktop <wingo>janneke: there have to be special rules, e.g. if the url is https://... to add gnutls to the environment <wingo>so it's missing a rule to add ssh to the profile for git origins whose scheme is ssh:// <wingo>civodul: ok :) it seems that gnome-settings-daemon-service is a little silly though, would it be ok to commit as gnome-desktop-service and expect it to grow in the future? <wingo>i.e. the second option, but more aspirational than descriptive ;) <civodul>wingo: what about keeping this name and just extending 'profile-service-type' to provide GNOME/Xfce? <wingo>i don't understand but i will spelunk for a bit to see <Jookia>I wonder how we'd instruct people to add a pulseaudio service to their user shepherd config <Gamayun>Hmm. guix pull gives me a 410 error at the moment <wingo>civodul: i see what you mean now. however there are no user-runnable programs in gnome-settings-daemon; otoh there are a bunch of dbussy things. so yeah, i guess that makes sense to do. will give it a go :) <wingo>tx, i really didn't get it before :) <civodul>i guess the "gnome" package is the one that should be provided, no? <wingo>i will check. that's much trickier -- you don't want to have to audit all of gnome to make sure the polkit extensions are reasonable; dunno tho <wingo>would you expose gnome but only wire up polkit for specific packages, i guess? <wingo>ACTION builds a gnome to see what's there <wingo>i have been too scared to try gnome yet ;) <civodul>i mean: extend polkit-service-type with just gnome-settings-daemon, and extend profile-service-type with gnome <wingo>ACTION builds gnome also to see if there are other polkit things that i should expose <wingo>i guess i should pull gnome-settings-daemon out of the input from the gnome metapackage <janneke>wingo: i had some success with gnome last week, but not in a vm <lfam>janneke: Your tip about disabling the acceleration check worked for me, thank you! <wingo>civodul: you ok with the cgroup mount for elogind? <wingo>zamazing to think all this might work tonight <civodul>maybe i missed a message or something? <wingo>network manager failed to build; lovely :/ <suitsmeveryfine>Apparently the problem with the macbook touchpad is still there. Sometimes when I boot I get a working cursor and sometimes I don't. I try to reconfigure now with "evdev" and "synaptics" removed xorg.scm. <rain1>hello suitsmeveryfine, i fail with encrypted /home :( <rain1>i'm not sure yet, still a few thinsg to try out that might help me debug it <suitsmeveryfine>it seems a bit annoying that you'll need to mount /home manually afterwards <petter>rain1: can you show us your config file? <rain1>suitsmeveryfine, for that i'm going to try out needed-for-boot? flag <suitsmeveryfine>On the macbook I don't have any problems with decryption inside GuixSD since that takes place in libreboot's GRUB. <rain1>I'm going to try changing to UUIDs, even though I'm not very familiar with them <suitsmeveryfine>rain1: what about mounting of /home inside the installer? Could that be an issue? <rain1>I don't know - I'm going to read over the qemu part of the latest manual from git and try again at some piont <rain1>i'm already using all my hard disks <civodul>wingo: just replied; great progress on this front! <petter>rain1: are you sure your encrypted home partition is at sda2? <rain1>that was my config from yesterdays attempt <suitsmeveryfine>Speaking of encryption -- do any of you know a good way to input the password invisibly when you're in a public space? <petter>i don't.. i'm also interested in using a USB stick to unlock my computer. <wingo>seems network manager will eventually need an elogind patch; its configure says something about using consolekit <lfam>suitsmeveryfine: Is it in a shell environment? You can fiddle with stty to hide input <civodul>that could explain why it "doesn't work" <suitsmeveryfine>lfam: now I'm taking about being in public spaces and having to enter passwords <lfam>Oh, you are worried about "shoulder surfing"? <lfam>Put your jacket over your hands ;) <lfam>That solution doesn't work in the summer <lfam>Heh, now *there* is a solution <Jookia>Sit somewhere where people can't see your keyboard <petter>throw a smoke grenade at yourself <suitsmeveryfine>I'm thinking that some kind of USB key that stores the luks password with a self-descruct button <Gamayun>It should be pretty easy to set luks up with the key stored on a usb, though I can't say I've tried it. <rain1>im sure we will figure out the crypto stuff eventually <rain1>i'm trying to figure out encrypted /home because it should be easiest, after that I want to try to contribute something that helps make the correct grub config for encrypted root <Gamayun>I believe I have seen such a silly product as a 'laptop box' that you can unfold and put over your laptop when typing in passwords, if you're feeling particularly tin-hatty.. ;) <rain1>i think a good approach could be dual boot, one account is not encrypted and you can put temporary things there before you go out <wingo>i guess elogind should wait? <wingo>ideally shepherd could spawn elogind only when dbus actually makes its sockets <civodul>strangely it seems dbus-daemon is not ready when it tries to connect <wingo>right, i guess dbus has started but is racing <wingo>we can add hacks to elogind if needed, even though the proper sol'n is elsewhere <NiAsterisk>regarding guix and python packages: we don't need setup.py, just some kind of Makefile, right? <lfam>NiAsterisk: Try it and see! <NiAsterisk>i ask, because i have no idea about package setup of python in general, and want to contribute whatever is needed to Bitmessage to help myself (and others) to use it without writing a file by file setup. <NiAsterisk>i found "a guide to python packaging" reads like a good start <lfam>NiAsterisk: bitmessage doesn't have any build system, right? You are supposed to run the code out of the development directory, right? <NiAsterisk>more or less, yes. and as i understand the dev, a great merging happens before 0.6.0 release around summer <NiAsterisk>you just git clone whatever you want (Bitmessage/PyBitmessage, or like I do mailchuck/PyBitmessage which will be merged into the other soon) and run src/bitmessagemain.py <lfam>NiAsterisk: I would try using the python-build-system but replace the build phase with something that copies the files into the output. The python-build-system does some useful stuff like wrapping the output binaries with the right PYTHON_PATH. <NiAsterisk>I would argue that packaging mailchuck/Pybitmessage AND Bitmessage/PyBitmessage would work, as both are currently compatible and mailchuck/ fixes lots of issues in Bitmessage <NiAsterisk>but what I want is not just Guix. if I can, I want to provide a patch for Bitmessage to fix this upstream and not be like everyone else who just works around the problem. I am talking to the dev about this problem. <lfam>In that case I would ask them what they'd prefer you do <NiAsterisk>our python-build-system takes just setup.py or is there some other thing for python? well, the dev is new to python and has not read into packaging yet <NiAsterisk>there's yet another bitmessage client (https://github.com/mirrorwish/hyperbit argh, stop the redundancy, just work with others on issues :/ ) and it has a setup.py which could give me something in addition to reading up how setup.py works <lfam>I don't have the disk space to build my package of GNOME Maps! <lfam>Time for another trip to LVM land <janneke>lfam: it would be nice if the manual gave some advise <janneke>on the size of / (i.e. /gnu/store ...) <lfam>janneke: ABAP (as big as possible) ;) <lfam>It's much worse for developers. We end up with so much junk in the store. <NiAsterisk>or calculations like "$upgrade will be $size-difference or $size-total" if that's not already there and I just don't see it anymore <lfam>It's not like Debian where a ~5 gigabytes is plenty <janneke>yes, and running guix gc is still "scary" for me <lfam>NiAsterisk: You can explore `guix size` <NiAsterisk>currently i have 21 GB and just cleaned one time so far. <janneke>i don't quite understand how/what to "bind" <lfam>`guix gc` is totally safe. The issue is that I am too lazy to register new gcroots of things I am working on. <janneke>and got hit a few times by major re-downloads <lfam>There's room for improvement, and that's always fun! <janneke>i'm not complaining, guix is amazing <lfam>Right now I'm working on a package that depends on texlive-texmf. It's really painful to garbage collect in this situation. <lfam>I should have registered texlive-texmf as a gcroot <lfam>Next time around I won't be so lazy <lfam>NiAsterisk: The link says "No repositories found" <NiAsterisk>temporarily, and then later do some proper setup thing for bitmessage <NiAsterisk>sorry, i have 2 systems comparing and no shared copy/paste system <lfam>Yeah, it's very useful to copy what other distros have done ;) <NiAsterisk>it's useful to have a collection of ebuilds I have already done before :) <lfam>janneke: That's really interesting. I'm going to read more about that. <janneke>lfam: well, I'd like to see it dead and replaced with guix <lfam>Yes, but OTOH your tool works on several more platforms that Guix <janneke>lfam: might give you an idea why i'm here :-D <janneke>i tried to implement cross-compilation for guix 2 years ago <lfam>Cross-compilation to other platforms besides native GNU / Linux? <lfam>That sounds like a major project! <NiAsterisk>lfam, i think in this case gentoo is not helping and I will just look at python packages we have to see how to get bitmessage working with our tools. setup.py would be the better goal, but just using what's there is easier atm. <janneke>lfam: it shouldn't be -- gub has all the sources, guix can cross-build now <lfam>janneke: That's good to hear! A major project for a newbie like me :) <janneke>but for now I'm first using guix/guixsd and learning about that <janneke>more than enough reasons to look into guix than replacing gub now <lfam>Do you have any idea what percentage of lilypond users are on non-free platforms (OS X and Windows)? <janneke>my guestimate is: 75% windows/mingw, 10% macos <lfam>The mingw port seems very important in that case! <janneke>Yes, so it seems. I wrote it, but I'm still ambivalent about it <lfam>Why are you ambivalent about it? <janneke>on the one hand, it helps people and exposes windows users to free software <janneke>for quite some people, lilypond was their first free software <janneke>and quite some switched to gnu/linux <janneke>on the other hand, efforts could have go/could go into a web service <janneke>and give potential users more incentive to try gnu/linux <janneke>or to let windows go -- no need as long as lily is available on windows... <lfam>Yes, it's a complicated set of trade-offs <rain1>I think it's better to have them using free software programs <Jookia>After spending a lot of time thinking about Windows support, there's no real way to do it using only free software- who would test the Guix port? etc <rain1>If they get curious about their favorite program being free software, "why/how is it free" they could also get interested in a free OS <janneke>Jookia: I do all my testing in wine+cygwin + user bug reports <Jookia>janneke: How well does cygwin run in Wine? <janneke>Jookia: it's been years ago that I last did that <janneke>well enough to get lilypond going anyway <Jookia>I don't know if Guix would ever support Windows, either philosophically or technically <Jookia>You could certainly use Guix in a way like Vagrant <Jookia>To give windows users environments <CompanionCube>the best shot guix would have at running on Windows would be under flinux :p <janneke>Jookia: i'd only be interested in running programs from a store tarball <Jookia>janneke: You mean using Guix to deploy binaries? <janneke>that should be technically feasible, not sure about philosophically <lfam>janneke: You mean something analogous to the binary Guix tarball, but with the store and database already populated some specific programs? <Jookia>Getting Guix to run on Windows would be extremely difficult, not even Nix has it working <janneke>Jookia: yeah, I don't care about that <janneke>full guix support, i don't care about <janneke>deploy binaries into the dark side, lure them over into the light