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<NiAsterisk>oh, a_e i totally skipped the part in your blog post about the domain name :) sorry
<a_e>Ah, I thought that was what prompted you to discuss domain names!
<NiAsterisk>no, i just simply did not see it
<a_e>Funny! Of course I had tried first...
<NiAsterisk>i tend to read very much on some days, and some texts I just read too fast
<a_e>No problem.We had a nice bikeshed painting session.
<lfam>I don't know, I wouldn't describe it as "nice". Maybe "fun". What do you think? ;)
<NiAsterisk>searching for unfonts ... font related results, fonts, more fonts, nifty erotic stories archive, fonts, .... the internet. :D
<a_e>Nifty, nifty :-)
<a_e>Can you not use the way back machine to load exactly the url you needed?
<NiAsterisk>i want to avoid to "hardfork" the downloadpage of unfonts to put them on a server in my control because I don't like such approaches.. maybe I find some distro or content network somewhere with the unfonts and unfonts-extra
<a_e>Like I did with the einstein patch I submitted to the list.
<NiAsterisk> , conquering the web and saving useless walls of texts forever. for files, that could be useful. and it has been indexed before
<NiAsterisk>do you have a refernece to the "einstein patch"? simply wget of the file link in display is not working
<NiAsterisk>not wokring in a way i want it to
<NiAsterisk>got it
<a_e>returns the content of
<a_e>at the given date (and time, I suppose).
<a_e>Time to go! Happy hacking!
<NiAsterisk>okay, thanks
<NiAsterisk>but: sure, i know how it works :) but I'm not sure if the file url would be catched by the guix downloader or, like in the case of a simple wget of the file link, catch a text document. I'll just have to try.
<NiAsterisk>got to eat and then try it :)
***Digit is now known as BeardedOracle
***Digitteknohippie is now known as Digit
***BeardedOracle is now known as Digitteknohippie
<lfam>Looks like NIST changed the URL of their XML feed
<lfam>It breaks our linter :(
<lfam>Hm, the HTTP link works, but the HTTPS link does not. I will wait a while to see if it is a transient error
<paroneayea>hm, kde "distro outreach" program
<lfam>That's a good sign
<lfam>You should send it to guix-devel and see if anyone wants to contact them
<lfam>Oof, GNOME in QEMU is without any "acceleration" features is pretty slow
<paroneayea>where's sneek? :O
<lfam>paroneayea: Apparently missing for a week!
<lfam>On holiday I suppose
<paroneayea>lfam: I guess so!
<lfam>The botsnacks are getting moldy
<rain1>I found this here
<rain1>I'm trying to package simplescreenrecorder just now
<lfam>Some of those items can be checked off the list :)
<rain1>oh this must be realy old!
<rain1>there is the history where they tried to come up with the distro name
<lfam>rain1: It could only be a few years old at most :)
<rain1>yay! simplescreenrecording is working
<rain1>can create videos of guix usage
<lfam>Nice :)
<efraim>I've been waiting on cmake 3.5.0 for weeks for upgrading our cmake package, but I might just do 3.4.3 instead so ours isn't so old
<paroneayea>nearly done with this talk!
<rekado>a_e the text on the unfont website is written in Korean.
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<Jookia>Hey there
<Jookia>Is there a kernel I should be using to avoid my Thinkpad's clock being broken?
<NiAsterisk>emacs makes you incredible lazy. if I can get a socks5 erc connection for every server network other than freenode, I will use erc again.
<petter>paron* suggests 4.1
<petter>(assuming this is the same)
<civodul>yeah, see
<petter>Jookia: this is a computer with Libreboot, yes?
<petter> (kernel linux-libre-4.1)
<rekado>rekado: botsnack
<rekado>(someone has to eat them)
<petter>i got an "unbound variable" i think when i tried it though...
<NiAsterisk>but.. but what about all the snacks I promised sneeks on sneeks return
<NiAsterisk>scary what you can do in emacs when you look at it. I only switched to it as an editor some years ago.. and now I listen to music in emacs.
<civodul>emms rocks
<NiAsterisk>it just decides with Gnus to just not respond anymore after 12 hours with all the newsgroups I have, that's the only sad part.
<NiAsterisk>ACTION breakfast
<petter>is there a browser for GuixSD that supports native playback of MP3?
<petter>i thought MP3 was off the charts, but i see emms supports it
<Jookia>Is there a way to stop Guix spamming my terminal with dmesg?
<Jookia>Like I'm glad I get to know my card is authenticating with my router but I'm trying to use Vim
<civodul>unfortunately i think that's because daemons started by the shepherd write to tty1
<civodul>it should be ok on other ttys
<Jookia>It happens on all my ttys
<Jookia>Yeah, tty2 too
<civodul>does it come from syslogd then?
<Jookia>How do I check?
<civodul>if it's formatted like a syslog line
<civodul>with the date etc.
<Jookia>It's formatted like dmesg
<civodul>and it's from wpa_supplicant?
<Jookia>Every ten seconds or so I get "authenticate with (mac address), Regulatory domain changed to country: AU)" and a list of all the frequencies it supports from cfg80211
<NiAsterisk>eh... Jookia, with clock error on thinkpad, did you mean something where ntpd shows an error related to thinkpad and something not being synchronized? (using librefied coreboot here)
<Jookia>NiAsterisk: No, when your date gets set to 1970
<civodul>Jookia: sounds like wpa_supplicant; are you using wicd?
<Jookia>No, wpa_supplicant for now
<Jookia>Maybe I missed a --shutup option
<civodul>or --syslog, something
<NiAsterisk>Jookia: oh
<Jookia>How do I view syslog?
<NiAsterisk>tail -f /var/log/messages ? or what
<Jookia>Ah, so there's no way to get per-service messages?
<NiAsterisk>well, grep. and there are individual log files in /var/log/ like always
<Jookia>Now I see why journald is an improvement :P
<NiAsterisk>well... i don't know if we could package and use syslog-ng, but that's good as well
<NiAsterisk>or come up w something in sheppered
<Jookia>Oh I see I can configure it
<NiAsterisk>what do you mean?
<Jookia>'info syslog' shows I can configure it to put stuff in certain files
<NiAsterisk>ah. possibly, yes
<Jookia>The more I use 'info' the more man pages feel absolutely terrible
<NiAsterisk>but in general, syslog-ng would be doable, or is there something preventing us to use it?
<NiAsterisk>don't know about the license
<NiAsterisk>gpl2 and lgpl
<Jookia>Oh it's on github great
<NiAsterisk>i don't know about the source, always compiled and used it as default in gentoo
<Jookia>wpa_supplicant seems to not care about me wanting it to go to syslog
<Jookia>It only cares about making sure I see everything related to wifi
<civodul>Jookia: did you try "wpa_supplicant -s"?
<Jookia>Yeah, and -q
<civodul>doesn't work as advertised? :-)
<civodul>re syslogd config, see syslog-service in the tree
<NiAsterisk>hm. no dependencies at all for syslog-ng? just the threefold and done? hm.
<NiAsterisk>civodul: is there something against having syslog-ng in Guix?
<NiAsterisk>*does something speak against
<Jookia>Maybe it's expecting me to put it in the config file
<Jookia>I guess not
<NiAsterisk>depends only on eventlog and glib, rest is optional.
<NiAsterisk>and flex.
<civodul>NiAsterisk: it would be best to default to syslogd from GNU Inetutils, but we can always add another option
<Jookia>Okay is there a way for me to not see dmesg output in my ttys?
<civodul>Jookia: checkout out %default-syslog.conf in (gnu services base)
<NiAsterisk>okay. I could package it at some point this year, then we could decide.
<civodul>there are a few things that go to /dev/console
<civodul>maybe you need to remove them
<Jookia>Also is there a way to add modprobe config options to my system.scm
<civodul>i don't think so :-/
<Jookia>No matter for now
<Jookia>Last question: Is there a way to disable the bell
<NiAsterisk>yes, through kernelmod
<rekado>hmm, my shared guix thing stopped working
<rekado>strace shows that it's lstat'ing /gnu/remote/guix/guix/build/utils.scm repeatedly.
<rekado>and lots of these: recvfrom(3, 0x7ffcb20ffed0, 519, 64, 0, 0) = -1 EAGAIN
<civodul>rekado: what is fd 3? an nscd connection?
<rekado>hard to tell (so much output!) --- but I'll just restart nscd, just in case
<civodul>check for the previous occurrence of '= 3$' :-)
<rekado>yeah, not in Emacs, just printed it all to the terminal
<alezost>Jookia: in X you can "xset b off"; in console you need to "modprobe -r pcspkr"
<Jookia>alezost: Interesting, thanks
<Jookia>civodul: Oh, I also found out that falling back in init doesn't give a bournish shell, and that the (mount) command fails to mount btrfs. Unsure why, but it always give an Invalid device error (not sure the exact message)
<rekado><... futex resumed> ) = 3
<rekado>it's probably the socket that I use for forwarding
<rekado>maybe a network problem
<civodul>Jookia: falling back in which case? Bournish is the default only after an fsck error
<civodul>otherwise you need to type ",bournish"
<Jookia>civodul: Ah I see, I expected it to be the default whenever. THis is when it fails to mount
<rekado>which is odd, because everything but "package -i" seems to work.
<Jookia>I wonder if it'd be a good idea to have multiple task-based profiles I could use on any user to import packages and an environment
<rekado>looks like it still works, but performance has dropped by two orders of magnitude
<rekado>Jookia: we use something like that here.
<Jookia>Oh really? Could you explain more?
<rekado>we have custom profiles per project / work group and store them in /gnu/var/guix/profiles/custom/$profile-name
<Jookia>How do you switch between them?
<rekado>then I just need to adjust ownership of that profile to make sure all group users have read access
<rekado>bash; source /path/to/profile/etc/profile; ....; exit
<rekado>it's clumsy but I have the implementation of "guix environment load /path/to/profile" on my list
<Jookia>Ah I see. So you could also add environmental variables? Hmm. I wonder if something like that could be combined with 'guix environment' to give some nice isolation
<civodul>rekado: cool!
<civodul>rekado: re performance, grafts incur significant overhead on some operations like -u, as efraim reported
<civodul>i'm working on it, we'll see how it goes
<rekado>I'm just doing "guix build something-existing"
<Jookia>civodul: You may have missed it but around 3am last night I managed to hack my way in to an ext4-formatted LVM on LUKS GuixSD system that I bootstrapped using a live USB
<rekado>it's been more than 2 mins now and it still hasn't returned.
<civodul>rekado: still :-) you could compare timings with --no-grafts
<rekado>wow, 2m 48 secs
<Jookia>Grafts will sure be fun on ARM ;)
<rekado>now doing "time /gnu/remote/guix/pre-inst-env guix build --no-grafts deeptools"
<civodul>rekado: any "fetching substitute" stuff in the middle?
<rekado>this took 31 secs
<civodul>still very slow no?
<rekado>no fetching substitutes
<civodul>due to the NFS setup?
<rekado>yeah, but it's always been slow.
<civodul>good ;-)
<rekado>I guees.
<rekado>it's frustrating. The store sits on an Oracle ZFS "appliance"
<civodul>Jookia: re LVM, nice!
<rekado>i.e. no root access, just some stupid web interface.
<civodul>rekado: do you use at your place?
<rekado>not right now
<civodul>ok, that's why the cache for deeptools is cold, then
<civodul>confirmation attack ;-)
<rekado>but I built it locally anyway.
<civodul>"time guix build deeptools --no-grafts -n" runs in 4.2 seconds here (once substitute info is here)
<civodul>which is already too much IMO
<rekado>I'm constantly at 31 seconds :(
<rekado>for stuff that's already in the store
<civodul>on this NFS setup?
<civodul>or ZFS?
<civodul>remote ZFS
<rekado>and with grafts 2 mins 30 secs I cannot let users install stuff on their own
<rekado>they don't have enough coffee / tea.
<rekado>yes, ZFS thingie via NFS.
<civodul>but NFS is really too slow anyway
<civodul>because it cannot send queries in parallel, so you have round trips for each 'stat' etc.
<civodul>i don't know what can be done
<civodul>maybe analyzing an strace would allow us to find a few redundant syscalls
<civodul>but that probably won't be a 10x win
<rekado>I have a big strace here and started annotating it
<civodul>that'll be interesting
<civodul>if 'statv' existed, maybe we could do something...
<Jookia>civodul: I might submit the LVM support if I can clean it up, then a patch to hack to just open all mapped devices at boot regardless of their use. As hacky as it is, it might be useful upstream as a stop-gap until we figure out a better way to handle block/swap/filesystem devices
<Jookia>civodul: Note on LVM support patch: It doesn't require changes the old patch required for the initramfs, it's self-contained
<civodul>Jookia: sure! i don't promise to review it thoroughly before the release, because we're getting late already ;-)
<Jookia>That's fine. :) There's a plan to release 0.9.1 soon? :D
<civodul>as always! :-)
<rekado>I'd actually like us to release more often. Every time core-updates is merged another patch release, or something like that.
<Jookia>One problem with redoing the dependencies for block/swap/filesystem devices is that it'd probably require adding another guix-configuration option and deprecating the old ones, still allowing their use. Does Guix have a way to handle deprecation?
<civodul>not really
<rekado>ACTION looks for documentation on NFS caching
<Jookia>Is deprecation a good strategy then? I really hate the idea of people doing 'guix pull' and having a broken configuration
<Jookia>I prefer breaking compatibility with undocumented side effects ;)
<rekado>does anyone here have experience with cachefilesd?
<rekado>I'm desperate and will try anything at this point
<civodul>never heard of it
<Sleep_Walker>no GNUnet support for package distribution as GSoC this year?
<rekado>The nfs man page says that caching of file attributes is enabled by default with a minimum of 3 seconds. That should be sufficient to save on communication with the NFS server in the case of building a union for a new profile generation.
<NiAsterisk>Sleep_Walker: should the GsoC be listed on the Guix page, a link to the gsoc page?
<Jookia>rekado: It's not getting cached for you?
<Sleep_Walker>NiAsterisk: well, that is unrelated question to my own, but it wouldn't hurt :)
<rekado>Jookia: I don't know. It's just really slow. I don't know how I can figure out if something is served from the cache or now.
<rekado>I'll try disabling the cache completely and compare performance
<Jookia>Woo I found a system-breaking bug in my coreboot scripts!
<NiAsterisk>"grafting $thing" reads like crafting, in minecraft and other *crafts :)
<Jookia>I certainly like that Guix uses a lot easier to understand terminology than Nix
<NiAsterisk>build --with-minecraft for occasional minecraft like story interruptions of grafting" would be fun.
<Jookia>don't you mean minetest? :P
<lfam>`guix archive --authorize` puts the key in /etc/nix/acl on NixOS. Is that expected?
<NiAsterisk>Jookia: possibly. I also learned that one project resided in a hackerspace here, where microsoft or someone took their core and did build "Dockercraft" on it
<NiAsterisk>where you can deploy and build dockerimages in their craft
<NiAsterisk>website... idk.
<Jookia>i blacklisted pcspkr but from what i understand nothing can stop the beep
<Jookia>It must be heard
<rekado>lfam: the acl file is in either %config-directory or "NIX_CONF_DIR"
<rekado>when you're on NixOS I suppose NIX_CONF_DIR is set?
<lfam>Yes, that's it
<Jookia>Looks like I also have to blacklist snd_pcsp
<Jookia>syslog-service-type isn't exported?
<NiAsterisk>guix grafted some updates, and afterwards I can not do guix package --dry-run -u or guix package -u , just remains quiet with no output.
<NiAsterisk>grafting happened when I did -i gimp
<Jookia>civodul: Ah-ha! 'dmesg -n 1' silences kernel messages from appearing on my tty. I wonder if this should be an option in guix-system
<roelj>Who does the binary release for 0.9 have dynamic links to things outside of /gnu/store? (libunistring in Guile is an example).
<alezost>Jookia: yeah, sorry, I forgot to mention snd_pcsp; I blacklisted both
<taylan>roelj: sounds like a bug...
<roelj>I substracted 'guile' from the /gnu/store in the guix 0.9 x86_65-linux archive, and here's the ldd output:
<SusWombat>why does firefox default to nightly o.O?
<SusWombat>ups wrong channel
<SusWombat>im sry
<Jookia>It's okay <3
<pizzaiolo>hey SusWombat, nice to see you here!
<SusWombat>pizzaiolo, just lurking ^^
<SusWombat>pizzaiolo, what do you use guix for?
<pizzaiolo>idk, browsing? it's a general purpose computer :P
<pizzaiolo>nothing specific
<pizzaiolo>I like to try it and learn some of it
<pizzaiolo>also it seems technically superior and freedom-respectful
<SusWombat>yeah that freedom-respectfull is the hard point for me ^^
<SusWombat>Is making an guix package any harder than making a nixOs one?
<pizzaiolo>SusWombat: dropping proprietary stuff is hard at first, but it's rewarding
<pizzaiolo>SusWombat: I'll leave that answer to someone who knows
<pizzaiolo>maybe Jookia
<SusWombat>pizzaiolo, before switching to nixOs i should propably try guixSd in a vm
<pizzaiolo>SusWombat: I agree :)
<SusWombat>pizzaiolo, i thought about the chrome thing yesterday. And actually i think in 90% of the times ff would be fine
<SusWombat>pizzaiolo, for the other 10% i could propably dualboot or sgove it in a vm
<pizzaiolo>SusWombat: flash is not that important nowadays
<SusWombat>pizzaiolo, isnt only flash. Also the dev-tools. But i guess i could get used to the ff ones
<SusWombat>Jookia, is it harder to make a guix package compared to nix?
<NiAsterisk>SusWombat: getting started is hard
<NiAsterisk>if you know only a bit lisp
<NiAsterisk>the more you read and the more you learn, the easier it gets :)
<NiAsterisk>so it's pretty accessible if you just ask and learn
<NiAsterisk>I had 0 guile knowledge.
<SusWombat>NiAsterisk, trust me should i do it. IM gonna ask ^^
<NiAsterisk>this community is generally pretty friendly to newcomers :)
<SusWombat>pizzaiolo, if im gonna learn guix xD ... you gonna learn emacs?
<pizzaiolo>SusWombat: I learned some basic stuff the other day
<SusWombat>pizzaiolo, im a bloody noob to :D But i can do a bit in it already.
<SusWombat>pizzaiolo, its really worth it if you use editors often
<pizzaiolo>SusWombat: me too o/
<NiAsterisk>all of the sudden: snow.
<NiAsterisk>all winter no snow, start of march snow
<NiAsterisk>got to disconnect for znc
<SusWombat>pizzaiolo, are there any suprises for me later on when switching to libre-linux?
<SusWombat>or downsides*
<SusWombat>whatever the best term is
<pizzaiolo>SusWombat: my suggestion is trying a trisquel live ISO
<pizzaiolo>if everything works, you'll have no issues with linux-libre
<SusWombat>pizzaiolo, trisquel mini is enough right?
<pizzaiolo>SusWombat: I'm not sure
<pizzaiolo>you need to have the option of trying the distro without installing
<pizzaiolo>not sure if trisquel mini has that
<pizzaiolo>haven't tried it
<SusWombat>im gonna simply try
<SusWombat>oh wow
<SusWombat>getting guixSD to work in Vbox was actually pretty easy lol
<rekado>mounting the shared store with the "fsc" option and using cachefilesd I actually get worse performance ...
<rekado>cache should be hot by now
<rekado>SusWombat: packaging for Guix can be really simple in some cases.
<rekado>we have importers for many package databases
<civodul>roelj: re ldd, i think that's because you're using ldd from the host distro, and it honors things like /etc/
<civodul>roelj: but the dynamic linker of Guix ( does not honor these things, so in practice it does not load things from /lib (unless LD_LIBRARY_PATH says otherwise)
<roelj>civodul: Aha. Good to know :) So, does LD_LIBRARY_PATH influence which libraries are loaded?
<roelj>(even with Guix packages?)
<SusWombat>srsly dumb question
<SusWombat>Where would i look up that admin package?
<SusWombat>(use-package-modules admin)
<SusWombat>Forget it ...
<SusWombat>I just need to write a bit more and its eplains it :) Im sry
<phant0mas>rekado: you have done an awesome job with the arm cross toolchain
<phant0mas>it has produced binaries for my zedboard, now I will test them to see if they work
<rekado>phant0mas: yay :)
<phant0mas>rekado: you have a problem when linking with newlib, right?
<rekado>ACTION has to go now for a couple of hours
<phant0mas>ok I have some ideas, I will tell you later how they worked out
<SusWombat>pizzaiolo, what wm/de you use?
<SusWombat>pizzaiolo, Ah nice! Does xfce work well?
<pizzaiolo>SusWombat: theming doesn't work very well, but I'm not sure why
<civodul>roelj: LD_LIBRARY_PATH is honored, yes
<pizzaiolo>I tried installing other icon themes, without success
<SusWombat>pizzaiolo, yeah seems to be the same unde nixOs. Have fun!
<Jookia>SusWombat: Instead of virtualbox, try qemu :) You can even run Libreboot in it!
<SusWombat>Jookia, well i was lazy O: also its just for quick testing. Should i like it i would move it to the real hdd soon
<SusWombat>Jookia, But thanks for the recommendation!
<Jookia>SusWombat: virtualbox requires a nonfree compiler to build, so you probably might have to change your habits anyway if you use GuixSD :)
<SusWombat>Jookia, yeah :) No problem with this ^^ and yeah i plan to go mostly free when using guixSD
<SusWombat>with 1-2 exceptions
<SusWombat>Jookia, skype and teamspeak3 are things i cant abandon. Skype might work with the webclient combined with pidgin maybe. Teamspeak3 would be one i would have to build myself i guess
<Jookia>Well, proprietarysoftware isn't known for its flexibility in new environments
<SusWombat>Jookia, what do you mean?
<Jookia>SusWombat: Guix uses some cool technology and unfortunately a lot of proprietary software isn't compatible with it. FOr instance, Steam will never work on Guix
<SusWombat>Jookia, oh may i ask why is that?
<SusWombat>Im just interested. I dont really care for steam on guix.
<Jookia>SusWombat: Steam downloads its own updates, avoids system packaging and also download others applications. In Guix, things tend not to run unless you patch them. Patching proprietary software is somewhat impossible
<SusWombat>Jookia, oh well im gonna try first in the vm then. Maybe i dont get Ts3 to work at all
<Jookia>It's also good practice to abandon these things even if it takes years
<SusWombat>Jookia, like i said its not possible atm. But i agree partly i guess. Aslong there are free alternatives which are somewhat on par
<SusWombat>Which in my examples ofc would be true
<Jookia>I don't know if there's anything on par with skype- I just go without
<SusWombat>Jookia, i would think of tox
<Jookia>Oh I use Tox, but it's kinda a failure in a lot of ways
<SusWombat>And just to be fair i have to say im not "fully" into FreeSoftware. I ofc prefer it if possible.
<Jookia>That's fine, do you have a computer that could run a fully free system?
<SusWombat>Jookia, i would have to find out. My pc is really old ^^
<Jookia>Hmm, what GPU and wifi?
<SusWombat>no wifi at all
<SusWombat> HexChat: 2.10.2 ** OS: Linux 4.4.1-2-ARCH x86_64 ** Distro: ArchLinux ** CPU: 2 x AMD Athlon(tm) X2 Dual Core Processor BE-2400 (AuthenticAMD) @ 1.80GHz ** RAM: Physical: 3.9GiB, 49.8% free ** Disk: Total: 590.3GiB, 91.3% free ** VGA: NVIDIA Corporation GT218 [GeForce 210] ** Sound: HDA-Intel - HDA ATI SB1: HDA-Intel - HDA NVidia ** Ethernet: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. 139C/8139C+ Ethernet
<SusWombat>Controller ** Uptime: 1d 7h 26m 57s **
<Jookia>Neat! You might have a good chance of running it then :)
<SusWombat>Yeah but i need to first find out about that "needed" prop stuff first
<Jookia>SusWombat: On a technical level I think it's possible to package skype and/or teamspeak3 since I've seen NixOS do it, but if you're up for a small challenge I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult, though none of us would really test it or use it. I wonder if it's even right to talk about it here? Unsure.
<SusWombat>Jookia, i ofc sont expect anyone to test or use it :)
<Jookia>Ah okay then. :)
<Jookia>SusWombat: Another experiment that would be worth doing is running these systems in a container running another distro
<SusWombat>Jookia, yeah but you have seen my horrible hardware ^^ or is the overhead really that low?
<Jookia>SusWombat: FWIW I'm running NixOS on an ARM board with probably less brute power than your machine with a container running OpenVPN which I'm using as an IRC proxy. Containers aren't full emulation or even require hardware virtualization (which I don't have)
<Jookia>I think I could run graphical applications in it and forward back, I just don't have use for that yet (and I have no graphical acceleration)
<Jookia>So I guess if we had containers you could 'sneak' whatever software you want in that way ;)
<SusWombat>Hmmm :)
<NiAsterisk>i has a doorbouncer.
<Jookia>A doorbouncer?
<Jookia>SusWombat: It's an interesting thought, though I'd probably just use containers to run more free distros.
<NiAsterisk>Jookia: that thing you don't need in psyced, you know ;)
<Jookia>NiAsterisk: I don't use an IRC bouncer
<SusWombat>Jookia, ^^
<SusWombat>I never used a free distro so far
<NiAsterisk>also, safes mime types from servers... font pointing to failed.
<Jookia>Oh really? GuixSD is my first free distro too. Why'd you choose it?
<NiAsterisk>just for whoever would try this in the future, doesn't fix mime issues.
<SusWombat>Jookia, A while i ago i did tend to avoid anything "free" if possible. I slowly get befriended with it
<Jookia>SusWombat: Avoid it? :o
<SusWombat>Jookia, i associated "free" with a few "imo annoying" people. But thats not fair cause free software is ofc awesome.
<Jookia>This is true :)
<SusWombat>Jookia, actually i think one interesting is going to be to discover how much of the stuff i use is really free :D
<Jookia>Interesting. I think the biggest surprise for me was thinking of websites being nonfree with their Javascript. Though, I came to free software from being a developer so it took me years to kinda get in to user freedom standpoint
<NiAsterisk>is it just me, or is this down:
<NiAsterisk>looking for the git of mirp
<SusWombat>NiAsterisk, This webpage is not available
<NiAsterisk>well this still works
<Jookia>Not available for me either
<NiAsterisk>works for me.. not through any proxy or anything
<Jookia>I can access that through Tor
<NiAsterisk>ah, you meant the first link
<Jookia>No, the second
<NiAsterisk>well then it's your isp or whatever
<Jookia>No your interpretation was right
<NiAsterisk>aha. thisis the new url , but miro has its own domain
<NiAsterisk>mkay. gzip: stdin: unexpected end of file
<SusWombat>Would learn scheme before guile make sense?
<NiAsterisk>sort of, but not required.. you can learn while doing, that's the beauty of guix :)
<NiAsterisk>there's no scheme though...
<NiAsterisk>there's guile, and other scheme variations.
<NiAsterisk>and the set of guile which guix uses
<SusWombat>Does guile differ alot from elisp?
<SusWombat>cause i need to learn that too
<NiAsterisk>it gives you a starting point to understand guile
<NiAsterisk>but you can learn guile on its own
<NiAsterisk>i see guix as emacs, you can learn both while you use it
<NiAsterisk>progressively, apply what you learn, play with it
<SusWombat>NiAsterisk, i would have to ^^
<SusWombat>Why is guix compiling o.O
<SusWombat>I thought it uses binarys by default?
<Jookia>SusWombat: Did you run 'guix pull'?
<SusWombat>im installing it still
<Jookia>SusWombat: You should run 'guix pull' before installing
<SusWombat>Jookia, "guix system init /mnt/etc/config.scm /mnt"
<Jookia>Yeah, before that
<SusWombat>Jookia, okay ill fo
<NiAsterisk>iirc, it compiles to bootstrap what's needed for the system. later on you will have compiling to compile just the source of guix, not the packages itself (although that's doable too)
<Jookia>NiAsterisk: If you forget to run 'guix pull' it's possible you'll try to use packages too old for the mirrors to have binaries for
<SusWombat>im fine with compilling. But on my hardware big packages are a pita ^^
<NiAsterisk>that too
<SusWombat>yeah guix pull is doing a lot right now
<Jookia>One thing good about Guix's transactions is that you can build an entire system while using an old version, or up to a certain point and use packages from the older system
<NiAsterisk>am I allowed to move unfonts to a server in my control or some place which sets correct mime headers?
<NiAsterisk>I don't want guix to alter the download script in general for just one case
<NiAsterisk>there would be (online since somewhere in 1984-1987), and I could directly move it to or some larger file distribution service.
<NiAsterisk>my domains are not in use at the moment.
<SusWombat>There is one big feature guix is missing compared to nixos
<SusWombat>And actually it would make even more sense in guix
<SusWombat>Nethack on tty9
<NiAsterisk>that's just a gimmick
<NiAsterisk>but there's no nethack package, feel free to package it
<SusWombat>NiAsterisk, first i need to install guixSD :)
<SusWombat>And i have atleast one package in mind i need to do
<NiAsterisk>i have 30 and more... it starts with just a couple... and then you want to contribute everything you want to use^^
<Jookia>Woo new minesweeper high score
<Jookia>Yes we need nethack and crawl
<SusWombat>NiAsterisk, are there any duties when contributing a "package"
<Jookia>SusWombat: Test it and be prepared to update it when a new version comes out
<Jookia>NiAsterisk: Is this mime issue a bug in Guix or serverside issues?
<NiAsterisk>Jookia: serverside
<NiAsterisk>upstream and
<Jookia>What do other distros do
<NiAsterisk>use a download function which does ignore the fact that .gz is invalid
<Jookia>Do many packages do this?
<SusWombat>Jookia, so iam expected to update it? Does this mean others wait before they would do it? Or would someone else update it when i take to long?
<NiAsterisk>my quick fix would be, download -> move to either or -> use that link in the package
<NiAsterisk>SusWombat: others can update too
<SusWombat>NiAsterisk, Good!
<SusWombat>Oh nice! redshift is already packaged :)
<Jookia>SusWombat: I'm not exactly sure what the process is. All the packages are kept in one source tree which means people can easily bump them and test them, but I imagine as we get more packages people will have to stay on top of updates
<SusWombat>Jookia, well i dont mean i wouldnt update them.
<Jookia>NiAsterisk: for now you could just 'guix download' it and wait until civodul is around to discuss making the downloader more tolerant
<NiAsterisk>i have my ~/resources/ and it updates git checkouts, at some point I will try to get a bash script thing to check on updates of packages I cntroibuted to guix
<NiAsterisk>Jookia: the package is functional
<NiAsterisk>it's the server which is shit
<NiAsterisk>see the thread on devel regarding unfonts
<Jookia>SusWombat: I think with bigger distros there's a lot more formalities but I'm not sure
<Jookia>SusWombat: Disclaimer: I haven't packaged anything (yet)
<Jookia>NiAsterisk: I see
<NiAsterisk>with bigger distros there's also lots of stupid restrictions which kept me from ever contributing to their package collection
<Jookia>NiAsterisk: Oh?
<Jookia>Oh that's no fair, gnome mines didn't pause while I was away and ran up my clock >:(
<NiAsterisk>gentoo for example. I had portage, and then we had a team of some people working on our own, updated packages, and I had my own packages, and portage was just lacking behind
<Jookia>What stopped you from pushing it upstream?
<NiAsterisk>when a package is 5, 6 years old outdated and WONTFIX closed, i consider it an personality issue
<NiAsterisk>when it is security related and crypto related, i have no motivation to put my name in that project
<SusWombat>Does guix benefit when new things happen at nix? or things at nix get fixed?
<NiAsterisk>well ,not personality, but when the project is as large as gentoo and in all those years nobody fixed the issue... self explanatory for it.
<Jookia>SusWombat: I don't think so outside of the nixstore library
<Jookia>SusWombat: Of course the science definitely benefits us
<SusWombat>Jookia, so issues need to be fixed twice?
<Jookia>SusWombat: Well, 'twice' is an odd way of putting it
<Jookia>An immediate example is security updates, I think NixOS has had working equivalent to grafting while Guix only got it earlier this week
<Jookia>One could say there's reimplementation of ideas
<SusWombat>Jookia, NiAsterisk may i ask for screens of your desktops? ofc only if you have time
<Jookia>SusWombat: I have NixOS on this machine and GuixSD on my thinkpad that's sitting across from me, and I don't have X compiled for it. The best I could do is photograph it :P
<NiAsterisk>what desktop
<NiAsterisk>out of the situation that I did not package awesome-wm yet, I run ratpoison.
<SusWombat>Jookia, NO! Dont do unnecessary work.
<NiAsterisk>so there's no desktop
<SusWombat>Every month or so i try to get into tilling :/
<Jookia>SusWombat: Hehe :P I have a backlog of photos I need to process anyway, so it wouldn't happen. Though once I get GuixSD on this machine I'll probably shove screenshots and photos of my setup in everyone's face
<NiAsterisk>kde plasma 5.5.5 is really good though, if one dislikes twms
<SusWombat>Jookia, i hope so!
<SusWombat>NiAsterisk, xfce is my daily driver
<SusWombat>As you might have seen my specs lightweight stuff fits me better
<NiAsterisk>i have not, but okay
<SusWombat>Altough kde5 runs fine on my hardware
<SusWombat>The only really ressource hungry de i know so far is Gnome3
<SusWombat>guix is compiling perl o.O
<Jookia>SusWombat: Is this on an existing distro or the Guix live USB?
<SusWombat>Jookia, live USB in a VM
<janneke>guile depends on perl?
<jmd>Is there an easy way to build a package without installing its definition?
<Jookia>janneke: To build stuff, yeah
<janneke>jmd: do something like: guix build -f package.scm
<janneke>jmd: where package.scm has (package ...)
<NiAsterisk>hmm.. after recent guix pull ; guix package --dry-run -u runs and gives no output
<NiAsterisk>even without substiutures
<jmd>janneke: I get "guix build: error: #<unspecified>: not something we can build"
<Jookia>SusWombat: It shouldn't be compiling I don't think
<janneke>jmd: package.scm must evaluate to a package
<SusWombat>Jookia, maybe thats not compiling
<jmd>What? I thought it was the name of the scm file.
<Jookia>SusWombat: What's it say?
<SusWombat>Jookia, "Running pm_to_blib"
<janneke>jmd: see, eg
<Jookia>Hmm :\\
<jmd>So that means I would have to take each scm file apart to do it?
<NiAsterisk>should I file a bug on the package -u not responding for 7 minutes now or is there something I can try?
<Jookia>NiAsterisk: You can try waiting? :P
<NiAsterisk>that's the third time I run it
<Jookia>How long did it take last time
<NiAsterisk>long. i get no output. and, if it's a infrastructure problem, see my latest thread.. I can use the server for mirror, slave, whatever you want.
<janneke>jmd: either you make a package available to guix
<janneke>by installing its scm in gnu/packages/...
<janneke>or by setting GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH so that guix can find it
<janneke>and then say guix build <package>
<jmd>It is in gnu/packages but if I modify it, then I have to run make install before guix will find it.
<janneke>or you don't "install" it and have a .scm evaluate to that package's value
<Jookia>jmd: Actually you can just symlink ~/.config/guix/latest to your guix repo
<Jookia>jmd: Guix will auto-find it and use it
<janneke>and use guix build -f or guix build -e 'expression'
<jmd>Jookia: I will try that. Thanks.
<SusWombat>Damn im looking through the packages i would need ....
<NiAsterisk>would you want to read my current list to see if there is anything you want you would like to take on, so I don't do double work?
<Jookia>SusWombat: Any good ones?
<Jookia>NiAsterisk: Me?
<SusWombat>Jookia, "good"ß
<Jookia>SusWombat: :P Terrible ones
<NiAsterisk>no. SusWombat
<SusWombat>Jookia, atm the one missing would be krita. EVEN if i would be able to package ... I think it would take ages to compile on my machine
<Jookia>SusWombat: Ooh, that sounds like something we need
<Jookia>If you have patience waiting a few days for a compile isn't that bad
<SusWombat>NiAsterisk, well as of know its not even safe im going to use guixSD at all (need to see first) but yes i would like to look at your list
<jmd>Strangely, after I changed the package definition and run guix build I don't get the complaint bout invalid checksum that I expected.
<NiAsterisk>currently: fix gnunet-gtk, fix lispf4, (both not really things I would recommend atm), a list of ones I am more familiar with: psyced, perlpsyc, and their dependencies. gnunet-dev, rust, rust imports (cargo), namazu, toxic, qtox, tox, anjuta-ide, tor-browser librefied, omiro, ricochet, utox, retroshare, torbrowser-launcher, onionshare, tails methods of ram erasing and similar ones, xonotic, cuberite,
<NiAsterisk>arphicfonts, git-daemon procedure for system.scm/confic.scm , equal services for some other packages in this list, awesome-wm, panaopticon (which requires rust cargo), pybitmessage (at some point there will be with 0.6.0 release, or I will contribute it so i can package it), that's the current list i think.
<SusWombat>NiAsterisk, sadly besides tox. I dont use any of these i dont even know the most
<NiAsterisk>that, and more pentest utils is what I require to be satisfied for a start
<SusWombat>My list atm would be : termite, godot, krita
<SusWombat>I propably should first try how godot works with nouveau on my hardware
<NiAsterisk>what is godot?
<SusWombat>NiAsterisk, a foss Game engine
<SusWombat>NiAsterisk, i want to get a bit into GameDev Thats why krita and godot. I dont know them, but i want to learn them.
<SusWombat>But i do that only as a hobby
<NiAsterisk>bahaha. "Deutscher Richterbund" (judges organization in germany) is against TTIP & CETA, government thinks the judges don't know what's legaly right...
<SusWombat>NiAsterisk, i think the german goverment like the most goverments do have a different understanding of laws :)
<jmd>The govt can always sack those judges and appoint ones that do.
<NiAsterisk>SusWombat: i don't.
<jmd>Like the polish govt has done.
<NiAsterisk>disclaimer: i live there.
<SusWombat>NiAsterisk, i do to
<jmd>me too.
<SusWombat>NiAsterisk, there is a great quote i need to find for you. Give me a moment
<NiAsterisk>oh, i read your sentence only half way
<SusWombat>NiAsterisk, o.O
<Jookia>why would you finish reading a sentence?
<NiAsterisk>occasionally i skip 1/4 because you can process a sentence without reading it completely.
<jmd>But not in German. You would loose the verb.
<SusWombat>NiAsterisk, i cant find the quote :( but it was like "when we always would check if laws are compatible with the constitution we could simply close"
<NiAsterisk>re checking:"if voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." -- Emma Goldman, 1911, the tragedy of women's emancipation (if my memory doesn't trick me with the year and title)
<Jookia>Whoa is this anarchism
<NiAsterisk>not that I stand completely behind it, but I read very much, and just remembered this quote for the context.
<Jookia>let's not get too off topic! Guix guix guix
<NiAsterisk>anyway, don't want to keep this offtopic
<NiAsterisk>somehow we derailed.
<SusWombat>well to stay on topic guix still is installling
<rekado>so, building deeptools (when it's already in cache) with the socat detour gives me 73304 EAGAIN.
<SusWombat>i think i made a mistake somwhere
<rekado>without socat I see EAGAIN 1180 times.
<Jookia>SusWombat: it shouldn't be compiling
<Jookia>SusWombat: what's the output of 'guix --version'
<SusWombat>Jookia, i would need to cancel right?
<SusWombat>or just on a second tty?
<Jookia>SusWombat: Either of those. YOu could always just pause it by hitting ctrl-z
<SusWombat>Jookia, guix 0.9.0
<SusWombat>I executed the command once with --fallback. But aborted and started again with
<SusWombat>Maybe it somehow still uses "--fallback" ?
<SusWombat>started again without*
<Jookia>SusWombat: Try resetarting the VM and running 'guix pull' the first thing you do
<SusWombat>Jookia, should i format the harddrive?
<SusWombat>Jookia, oh there is nothing besides tmp
<SusWombat>so i just delete temp and reboot
<SusWombat>ok guix pull took 12 minutes. Thats not too bad
<Jookia>SusWombat: What's guix --version now?
<SusWombat>Jookia, 0.9.0
<Jookia>what's ~/.config/guix/latest point to
<SusWombat>thats wrong?
<SusWombat>do i even have a home dir?
<Jookia>It should be 0.9.1 or something
<Jookia>if you're as root, yeah
<SusWombat>Jookia, latest is a dir
<piyo>ooh is 0.9.1 out!? but there's there's no tag
<NiAsterisk>not released yet, but when you use it, it's on 0.9.1
<Jookia>SusWombat: what's the dir contain
<SusWombat>Jookia, gnu/ gnu.go gnu.scm guix/ guix.go guix.scm
<SusWombat>why .go?
<SusWombat>Jookia, but he seems to download instead of compiling now.
<rekado>Lookups: n=1570 neg=1570 pos=0 crt=1570 tmo=0
<rekado>no wonder it's slow. There have been only cache misses.
<rekado>don't know why but at least there's still hope that it could be faster once things are served from cache.
<SusWombat>Jookia, so i guess my "--fallback" and then starting without mesed it up
<SusWombat>but im away for a while now
<rekado>actually, that was the wrong line
<rekado>Retrvls: n=1730 ok=0 wt=953 nod=1730 nbf=0 int=0 oom=0
<rekado>ok=0 is bad.
<rekado>nod=N means "number of retrieval requests returned -ENODATA"
<pizzaiolo>nobody expects the spanish inquisition
<civodul>rekado: 'ok' corresponds to hits?
<paroneayea>heya *!
<paroneayea>I'm giving a talk on Guix today at Stripe, internally
<civodul>yay, paroneayea!
<civodul>that's nice!
<civodul>before all the "retreaters"?
<paroneayea>And! After work today I'm going to the emacs hackathon with John Wiegley, current maintainer
<paroneayea>and I'm bringing guile-emacs with me :)
<civodul>and guix.el hopefully! :-)
<paroneayea>civodul: before them and whoever wants to come :)
<paroneayea>civodul: yeah... though my guix.el setup is borked, as of recent changes!
<civodul>oh, how's that possible? :-)
<civodul>ACTION looks at alezost 
<paroneayea>the "smart guix load path" stuff, which is in general great, is kind of goofing with my "use the guix.el checked out from git"
<paroneayea>since it's not the guix.el in my profile
<paroneayea>so first I set the path to load from git
<paroneayea>and then I init guix
<paroneayea>and then later modules fight between which one is opened by which
<paroneayea>and there's incompatible stuff..
<paroneayea>so I need to figure out how to fix that
<paroneayea>maybe nobody else has this problem :)
<civodul>i do use guix.el from my checkout
<civodul>maybe i'm doing things differently
<paroneayea>civodul: how do you init it? Here's what I'm doing:
<alezost>I didn't change anything in my "guix.el from git checkout" settings for months and it still works
<civodul>i also do (setq guix-load-path "~/src/guix/emacs") to get the corresponding Scheme code
<paroneayea>and things seem to fine, but when I hit enter on a package I get
<paroneayea>Debugger entered--Lisp error: (void-function guix-system-profile\\?)
<janneke>warning: collision encountered: /gnu/store/qjjh24wv65yg1rc3cjknjq6ycv4n7l47-ld-wrapper-0/bin/ld /gnu/store/gbg76f0x503bkjr1pcv1n37plph2b7ha-binutils-2.25.1/bin/ld
<janneke>warning: arbitrarily choosing /gnu/store/qjjh24wv65yg1rc3cjknjq6ycv4n7l47-ld-wrapper-0/bin/ld
<janneke>janneke@drakenvlieg:~/src/guile$ Throw without catch before boot:
<janneke>Throw to key misc-error with args ("make_objcode_from_file" "bad header on object file: ~s" ("\\x7fELF\\x02\\x01\\x01ÿ\\x00\\x00\\x00\\x00\\x00\\x00\\x00\\x00") #f)Aborting.
<alezost>paroneayea: check with "M-x find-library" where "guix-profile" is placed
<paroneayea>which is something being called from guix-ui-package.el from the git checkout, but it's calling into guix-profiles.el which is coming from the system profile
<paroneayea>alezost: ^^
<alezost>paroneayea: is it on GuixSD?
<alezost>paroneayea: ah, I think it because on GuixSD site-start.el loads the old guix from system profile. Try to run emacs like this: "EMACSLOADPATH= emacs"
<civodul>janneke: the collision is harmless; the other thing indicates you're mixing 2.2 and 2.0 .go files :-)
<alezost>paroneayea: so I think you need to "unset EMACSLOADPATH" to use guix.el from a checkout
<janneke>civodul: okay, aaarghh :-)
<janneke>i'm looking into a real solution to that
<paroneayea>alezost: aw, does that mean the useful guix emacs lisp loading stuff will go away entirely?
<paroneayea>is there no way to make the git checkout stuff just take priority in the guix case? :)
<alezost>paroneayea: absolutely not! you will still have (require 'guix-init nil t) in your emacs so everything will work from the git checkout
<alezost>paroneayea: I mean "useful guix emacs lisp loading stuff" will not go anyway
<alezost>paroneayea: to recap: put "unset EMACSLOADPATH" into your .bash_profile and everything should work
<paroneayea>alezost: that seems to have fixed it!
<alezost>paroneayea: just FYI: this EMACSLOADPATH trick will not be needed in future; after the release I'm going to push this patch: <>
<paroneayea>alezost: great :)
<paroneayea>rekado: huh, is guile-emacs working for you?
<paroneayea>oh wait
<paroneayea>works fine from a --pure environment!
<SusWombat>Iam back :)
<SusWombat>and guix is still installing O:
<SusWombat>uhm wait
<SusWombat>im sure i made a mistake in the config .....
<SusWombat>Why does it download inkscape ? ....
<Jookia>SusWombat: To render an SVG
<SusWombat>so its normal?
<avoine>it's listed in the default desktop configuration maybe
<SusWombat>Jookia, didnt even know it runs without x
<Jookia>It's normal :)
<SusWombat>Jookia, but why does it want to render an SVG when i dont even have X?
<NiAsterisk>would it be wise if we packaged securedrop, when the official recommended, endorsed way is a costumized Tails (i hope to get to a similar state with Guix at some point)?
<Jookia>SusWombat: GRUB
<SusWombat>Jookia, ah! That makes sense! Thanks
<NiAsterisk>for a proof that it can work, i would package it later.. but I could write "please keep in mind that securedrop recommends using Tails" or something
<NiAsterisk>or does it? I just read the topics, not content
<NiAsterisk>ACTION reads again
<SusWombat>NiAsterisk, stop skipping parts of sentences ^^
<NiAsterisk>for the server it does not, for the journalist interaction with the server on location, it does
<NiAsterisk>so i can package it.
<NiAsterisk>it requires ansible. hmh
<NiAsterisk>complex. stuff to package later this year when I have more experience.
<SusWombat>NiAsterisk, is packaging fun?
<NiAsterisk>and yes
<NiAsterisk>yes, because you learn and can share your results with others, no because computers and debugging sucks
<NiAsterisk>it's fun to solve a puzzle after many attempts.
<NiAsterisk>i'm more in it because I can share results with others, for others to use.
<SusWombat>yeah that part sounds good
<SusWombat>ok so he is compiling some c code now
<SusWombat>I hope outside if the vm it isnt going to be so slow for me :/
<Jookia>Compiling some C code?
<SusWombat>Jookia, well he checked what attributes my c compiler supports
<SusWombat>or still does not sure
<Jookia>Hmm, which package
<Jookia>And is this in the new install or live USB
<SusWombat>Jookia, still the live usb
<Jookia>What's in /tmp ?
<SusWombat>ok now he reports what he found
<SusWombat>Jookia, guix-inst/
<Jookia>What's in guix-inst
<SusWombat>the current output is mktime() found. nan() found. and so on
<SusWombat>Jookia, sec i look
<SusWombat>Jookia, alot of hash-package-builder and hash-package/
<SusWombat>he weould have told me if i have a error in my config.scm right?
<jmd>the gnu build system doesn't run its check target in parallel
<SusWombat>jmd, ?
<Jookia>SusWombat: Probably
<jmd>SusWombat: !
<SusWombat>jmd, what does "the gnu build system doesn't run its check target in parallel" mean?
<jmd>It doesn't pass the #parallel flag the check stage
<mark_weaver>petter: for MP3 support you need to install the relevant gst-* package. I don't remember off-hand which one has MP3 support, maybe gst-plugins-ugly, or gst-plugins-bad, or gst-libav
<mark_weaver>and you need to set GST_PLUGIN_PATH (or GST_PLUGIN_SYSTEM_PATH) to include $HOME/.guix-profile/lib/gstreamer-1.0
<mark_weaver>actually, on recent GuixSD, GST_PLUGIN_PATH should be set by /etc/profile
<petter>mark_weaver: great news (sort of). I've really enjoyed on other systems, and this has been a loss for me. Hope they'll stream in ogg soon of course. Thank you!
<jmd>Where is the package build directory these days?
<SusWombat>How long does a install for you guys usualy take?
<Jookia>SusWombat: It shouldn't take too long, though it's hard for me to know since I compile everything from source. it's possible some binaries just aren't available yet
<NiAsterisk>am I the only one who can't package -u anymore?
<paroneayea>Jookia: you don't use substitutes??
<SusWombat>Jookia, it might be that slow cause of the vm i guess
<jmd>Does the build -K option no longer do anything?
<SusWombat>Oh and a different question i remember long time ago when i asked, dualbooting wasnt possible(atleast without workaround). Has this changed?
<Jookia>paroneayea: Nope, I've gotten in to the habit of just compiling everything (even on ARM)
<Jookia>SusWombat: I think it's possible but adding another entry
<bavier>jmd: /tmp/guix-build-*
<jmd>bavier: ls: cannot access /tmp/guix-build-*: No such file or directory
<SusWombat>Jookia, i think i quit the vm test. And just try to install it directly ^^
<jmd>Perhaps the option has been obsoleted.
<Jookia>jmd: '-Kk' works fine for me
<SusWombat>brb first trying if trisquel runs fine
<Jookia>SusWombat: Good luck
<rekado>odd, "time /gnu/remote/guix/pre-inst-env guix build --no-grafts python" is twice as fast as "... deeptools"
<rekado>12 secs vs 26 secs
<jmd>Jookia: Does -K on its own work for you?
<Jookia>I don't know, I haven't checked in a while
<SusWombat>ok so trisquel seems to run fine
<Jookia>SusWombat: Nice!
<SusWombat>Jookia: sound works fine too
<SusWombat>Jookia: anzthing else i should test_
<Jookia>GPU, try playing video or a game (supertux is pretty heavy these days)
<SusWombat>uhm lol
<SusWombat>this livedvd is fast as hell
<SusWombat>i always thought xfce is pretty fast
<SusWombat>but nope lxde is FAST
<SusWombat>It feels even faster then i3 o.O
<SusWombat>Does linux libre improve performance?
<Jookia>I don't think so
<chewieQC>Has anyone tried to install a DE on a foreign distro from guix?
<rekado>so odd. deeptools is a lot smaller as the python output. Why would it take twice as long to figure out that it's already been built?
<rekado>the cache seems to be effective when copying stuff around.
<rekado>but "guix build" is unaffected :(
<mark_weaver>rekado: copying what around? how?
<SusWombat>Jookia: supertux 2, Supertuxkart and The godot engine demos run fine
<Jookia>SusWombat: Then you should be fine with GuixSD :)
<SusWombat>does triquel use nouveau?
<rekado>if I just do "time cp -r /gnu/store/some-item /tmp", remove "/tmp/some-item" and do it again then I see that less time is needed to copy
<rekado>this shows me that cachefilesd does what it should
<Jookia>SusWombat: I'm 90% sure that it does
<rekado>however, none of the accesses done by "guix build" or "guix package" seem to be served from the cache.
<rekado>mark_weaver: I'm trying to speed up "guix build" and "guix package" when using a shared guix store via NFS using the cachefilesd daemon.
<SusWombat>OK i have (for now) one i guess weird question
<SusWombat>As i want to do a bit gamedev, and i dont know about the license i would choose. Would i be legally allowed to create a non free product on a full free os?
<SusWombat>This whole free os stuff is new for me so sry for asking
<Jookia>On a fully free OS? Yes. But depending on the tools you use, they may require your code also be free (which is a good thing)
<chewieQC>You would be legally allowed so, but users of a free system would not want to use a non-free game :)
<SusWombat>Jookia: I dont say its a bad thing :D Just asking
<Jookia>Anyways I gotta sleep. I wonder if I could find any actual wombats around to take a photo of. Wow that's an odd thought. Nini!
<chewieQC>There are also expert on licences in #fsf
<SusWombat>Jookia: good night!
<SusWombat>chewieQC: ok thank you :)
<rekado>I'm reading now that the standard nfs client apparently does not support attribute caching.
<rekado>that's kinda important when faced with lots of stat calls
<mark_weaver>rekado: the sqlite database in /var/guix/db is the definitive authority on what validly exists in the store.
<rekado>mark_weaver: I know that. I'm trying to speed up *NFS*
<rekado>guix makes a lot of syscalls and I'd like them to be answered from a cache without having to go to the NFS server.
<mark_weaver>sorry, I guess I don't sufficiently understand what you're doing, so never mind me :)
<chewieQC>rakado: I think you can configure the linux kernel to cache things in ram
<SusWombat_>Ok so before installing guix. Is there a way to install an irc client in the live usb envoirement?
<mark_weaver>the thing is, given that the filesystem is read-write on the server, and NFS doesn't know about the restricted nature of the writes done to /gnu/store, it might not be okay for it to assume that the cached data is valid for purposes of implementing stat(2)
<mark_weaver>but I don't really know..
<Digit>point of curiosity, just wondered if this could hold some interesting potential for guix (or if redundant/meaningless in guix's case).
<mark_weaver>anyway, gotta go afk..
<SusWombat>I get an kernel panic when booting the live usb
<SusWombat>Does anyone have a idea what i could do about : "kernel panic-not syncing: VFS: unable to mount root fs on unknown block(1,0)"
<avoine>this is when the initramfs can't mount your root filesystem
<avoine>I think
<SusWombat>yeah but why :/
<avoine>SusWombat: have you partition with something else then ext4?
<SusWombat>avoine, its the live usb one on my usb stick
<SusWombat>avoine, i deleted all partitions and issues the dd command
<NiAsterisk>on the live usb?
<NiAsterisk>inside the liveusb?
<SusWombat>NiAsterisk, when i try to boot the live-usb
<avoine>yeah no that can't be it
<janneke>guix build --keep-failed does not keep the build dir anymore?
<NiAsterisk>idk... package -u without something behind like *.* does not update the system anymore for me either.. things changed recently with guix itself?
<a_e>rekado: I thought it was corean, and installed font-adobe-source-han-sans:kr, but still cannot read it. Well, never mind!
<NiAsterisk>a_e: still the website from yesterday? terminus works for me to display everything iirc
<a_e>Yes; I replied to a reply by rekado from this morning, since I was reading up on the channel archive :-)
<NiAsterisk>ah, okay
<NiAsterisk>was it you who recommended
<a_e>Yes. I read it did not work. Too bad!
<NiAsterisk>I filled a bug on that, I don't want to just do it, with another person giving the okay that the file location would differ from the actual project location, that would be enough for me.
<alezost>a_e: perhaps you need to do "fc-cache -fv" after installing a font
<a_e>Okay, I will try.
<NiAsterisk>if I set an alternative download location.. it does get downloaded each time someone builds/installs the font for the first time or something in the package definition changed, right?
<a_e>Source code is also cached by hydra.
<a_e>Someone who enables substitutes will normally get the result of the build from hydra and not download the source.
<a_e>People who want to download the source and use substitutes will also get it (most likely) from hydra.
<NiAsterisk>ah, so that's with an no longer updated package no significant ampount of traffic
<NiAsterisk>and at with lifetime arpa I found no limitations in outbound traffic. otherwise I have and a friends public download server at my hands.
<a_e>alezost: It did find new fonts for the cache, but the corean e-mail still does not show.
<NiAsterisk>a_e: with emacs?
<a_e>With mutt.
<NiAsterisk>okay, there I have knowledge of anymore. I suppose it could be curses wcwith.c (or what it was called) problem, where emacs is not affected as it does not use curses
<a_e>Users who do not enable substitutes will still fetch the source code from the source :-)
<a_e>Difficult to say how many these are or will be.
<NiAsterisk>if I notice SDF getting angry at me, I can always move it to a place which is definitely not restricted in traffic.
<NiAsterisk>i try to build with the location now
<suitsmeveryfine>petter: Hi! Could you send me a link to the latest version of the installation guide?
<lfam>Does anyone understand the relationship between ffmpeg and libav? There is a security update of libav. Does that affect our ffmpeg package?
<alezost>a_e: hm, I don't know what to do then :-(
<suitsmeveryfine>...the one with various encryption scenarios
<a_e>No problem! I manage to display all languages I understand.
<suitsmeveryfine>Great, thanks!
<NiAsterisk>wooo. 350KiB/s download
<NiAsterisk>maybe i could ask if they have a public fileserver. they have been around for a reasonable time and have fast upload speed
<wingo>lfam: "it's complicated" :/
<lfam>wingo: Bug for bug compatible?
<wingo>one project that forked
<lfam>I thought Debian was going back to ffmpeg. I guess that process is incomplete
<wingo>so, a lot of code is shared.
<wingo>yeah it's complicated. i think i would wait for an ffmpeg security advisory if any
<wingo>all that code is a horrible pit of vulnerabilities but aiui ffmpeg does release security advisories
<lfam>It looks like Debian has ffmpeg in testing but not stable. I wonder if they issue advisories in that situation
<lfam>I'm not surprised a C-language multimedia swiss army knife is full of holes.
<lfam>What a nightmare!
<lfam>Is anyone else having trouble importing and exporting archives since we starting grafting? I can send the archives to the remote machine, and they end up the store, but the remote machine still wants to build from source rather than use the substitute in its store
<mark_weaver>civodul: hydra failed to evaluate master:
<lfam>And the signing-key *is* in the acl file
<mark_weaver>civodul: there are build logs for several derivations in that evaluation log
<mark_weaver>e.g. perl
<lfam>Hm, do you think the perl graft broke it?
<mark_weaver>oh, I see. looks like it offloaded a build of perl during the evaluation, and that build failed because of a connection failure
<civodul>mark_weaver: do you know if that is after 49c4fd2aab0c99c32ec338949ff07bd89d2920f6?
<civodul>that was supposed to avoid builds during evaluation
<NiAsterisk>send an email to in-berlin, maybe they'll host the font files.
<mark_weaver>civodul: it evaluated at commit 44abcb28686fbe72b576c0c5b4d92f04a675270f
<mark_weaver>which I think is current HEAD
<mark_weaver>I know because I ran "ps auxww | grep git" while 'hydra-eval-guile-jobs' was running, and that command line includes the git revision. it's still in the scrollback buffer of window 2 of the screen session on hydra.
<civodul>hmm ok
<mark_weaver>hydra 8778 46.7 13.9 648692 586236 pts/3 Sl 17:13 34:19 /usr/local/bin/guile --no-auto-compile --fresh-auto-compile -l /usr/local/bin/hydra-eval-guile-jobs -c (apply (module-ref (resolve-interface '(hydra-eval-guile-jobs)) 'eval-guile-jobs) (cdr (command-line))) /gnu/store/lcmknbvv6cb45rd40a9p2i81vpnp7yqv-git-export/build-aux/hydra/gnu-system.scm --gc-roots-dir /nix/var/nix/gcroots/per-user/hydra/hydra-roots -j 1 -I
<mark_weaver>guixSrc=/gnu/store/lcmknbvv6cb45rd40a9p2i81vpnp7yqv-git-export --arg guixSrc '((file-name . "/gnu/store/lcmknbvv6cb45rd40a9p2i81vpnp7yqv-git-export")(revision . "44abcb28686fbe72b576c0c5b4d92f04a675270f")(revision-count . 11098)(git-tag . "v0.9.0-1923-g44abcb2")(short-revision . "44abcb2"))
<mark_weaver>(probably the git commit should be printed so it's visible in the evaluator.log output)
<lfam>Is there a way to get the output path of a build without actually doing the build?
<lfam>Never mind, it's still up there
<lfam>Did the format change?
<civodul>it's contained in the .drv
<suitsmeveryfine>petter: I see there is a TODO for unencrypted /boot. Do you know what I need to do to set up a system with unencrypted /boot + encrypted / ?
<lfam>Ah, so I could just build the .drv and then look at that if necessary
<lfam>civodul: Would you expect grafts to have an impact on the ability to import and export archives between machines?
<petter>suitsmeveryfine: i think you need to add another file-system in file-systems and set the bootable flag
<rain1>I would recommend against it unless you're trying it in a VM
<rain1>i did this and guix system reconfigure broke it :(
<rain1>so now I reinstalled without luks/crypt and it doesn't trash my system
<suitsmeveryfine>What about an encrypted home partition? Is that easier to set up?
<a_e>suitsmeveryfine: I tried to set up an unencrypted /boot with an encrypted /.
<mark_weaver>petter, suitsmeveryfine: in cases where the GRUB from Guix will be used to boot the system (e.g. when not running Libreboot's own GRUB), I guess the Guix GRUB configuration needs to be modified to open the luks volume?
<a_e>It did not work :-(
<a_e>mark_weaver just summarised it.
<rain1>Yes I had to edit my grub config
<a_e>The kernel and initrd reside in /gnu/store.
<rain1>in future would guix create a working grub for encryption?
<a_e>The unencrypted /boot is just useful for reading the grub.cfg file.
<mark_weaver>yes, certainly. patches accepted :)
<suitsmeveryfine>a_e: I'm sorry to hear it. I've got encrypted / (including /boot) on a different machine
<a_e>rain1: Yes, this is needed, and urgently I would say.
<mark_weaver>a_e: it's useful for reading the grub.cfg and also GRUB's modules
<rain1>I would like to help contribute towards this
<suitsmeveryfine>But on this T60 I've got there is no display in GRUB, only in GNU/Linux
<a_e>mark_weaver: Indeed!
<a_e>suitsmeveryfine: It was quite an annoying waste of time.
<a_e>I first ended up with everything unencrypted.
<a_e>Which bothered me a lot.
<suitsmeveryfine>OK, I'll avoid it then, but how about encrypted /home?
<a_e>Then I erased everything again to try encrypted /home.
<civodul>lfam: no, definitely not; could you post the sequence of things you're doing?
<mark_weaver>suitsmeveryfine: encrypted /home should work fine, I think
<a_e>And now I went with encrypted /home only.
<lfam>civodul: Yes, I'll send an email in a little while
<a_e>It works without a problem, like in any other distro.
<suitsmeveryfine>Any instructions for just encrypted /home?
<lfam>I need to make sure it's not PEBKAC
<mark_weaver>rain1: the code that generates the grub.cfg is in gnu/system/grub.scm
<rain1>a_e, do you have to enter the decryption password twice?
<rain1>thanks mark_weaver
<a_e>I have two partitions, / (unencrypted on /dev/sda1), and then an encrypted /dev/sda2.
<a_e>The latter is mounted to /home via a mapped device, like in petter and suitsmeveryfine's tutorial.
<a_e>One only needs to type the password once.
<rain1>oh sounds nice
<mark_weaver>rain1: if you set yourself up to run guix from a git checkout, modify the code in there, and run "./pre-inst-env guix system reconfigure" as root from that directory, it will build a grub.cfg according to your changes. however, be warned that unlike almost all changes to guix, messing with grub can render your system unbootable.
<rain1>I will try to get this working in qemu
<a_e>One cavet: The screen output is not sequential. The question to enter the password runs of the screen and is superseded by lots of other messages.
<suitsmeveryfine>a_e: thanks -- I'll follow our guide for full disk encryption and modify it according to what you said.
<rain1>yeah i see that too
<a_e>So as soon as nothing moves any more, just type your password, and things should get going again.
<mark_weaver>(although with some minor difficulties, you should be able to boot GuixSD manually by typing commands at the GRUB prompt, either the GRUB that GuixSD installed if it works, or else from some other working GRUB, e.g. from the USB installer
<suitsmeveryfine>a_e: yes, I know. It's a bit annoying, but having to enter the password twice is even more anying
<a_e>suitsmeveryfine: Yes, follow your fine guide :-)
<rain1>can I see this guide?
<petter>you could save a working grub.cfg and tell GRUB manually to use this instead
<a_e>Well, for more security I would not mind typing twice.
<mark_weaver>suitsmeveryfine: btw, I heard that your trackpad now works without any hacks. I guess this is because wingo recently updated our Xorg, including libinput and some other related things.
<mark_weaver>that's great news!
<janneke>i reverted to daeb61f and --keep-failed works again
<mark_weaver>(and thanks to wingo :)
<a_e>Now I have an unencrypted /tmp, /var and /etc, which is not acceptable in the long run.
<suitsmeveryfine>petter: I did modify GRUB.cfg so that I didn't need to enter a lot of commands.
<suitsmeveryfine>but I still have to enter the LUKS password twice (on the macbook).
<a_e>civodul pointed me to a bug report:
<suitsmeveryfine>On this T60 however I have no working LCD before the kernel is booting so I need to have it connected over serial to another machine to work inside GRUB
<petter>suitsmeveryfine: i was adding to what mark suggested with editing the grub code in guix and testing
<a_e>iyzsong apparently managed to have an encrypted / (and unencrypted /boot) using a manual hack.
***vimuser is now known as francis7
<a_e>It would be nice to integrate that into the automatic generation of our grub.cfg.
<suitsmeveryfine>petter: is this something new that I've missed?
<rain1>how many different systems should be supported?
<petter>i guess this command would work: configfile (ahci0,gpt1)/boot/grub/grub.cfg.bkp
<suitsmeveryfine>mark_weaver: yes, I'm very happy that the trackpad works now!
<mark_weaver>rain1: I don't understand your question
<rain1>enc /boot:/, enc /, enc /home
<rain1>just these 3?
<suitsmeveryfine>mark_weaver: the trackpad even works in ratpoison :D
<mark_weaver>rain1: encrypted /boot won't work at all if you're using GRUB that we install, because that's where GRUB lives.
<a_e>rain1: I have yet another setup on another machine (with Guix on Debian, but I think it should also work on GuixSD):
<mark_weaver>rain1: the only encrypted partition that our grub.cfg should need is the root partition. I'm assuming that's where /gnu/store is located.
<a_e>Unencrypted /boot and /, but an encrypted /dev/sda2 from where /home, /tmp and /gnu are bind-mounted.
<mark_weaver>On GuixSD, the kernels and initrds are in /gnu/store
<a_e>It is a hack, but it works; a poor-man's emulation of encrypted /, with some /xxx unencrypted.
<lfam>a_e: So /etc is plaintext?
<mark_weaver>rain1: /home is not relevant to GRUB. it will be mounted by shepherd filesystem services
<a_e>Yes, that is where the /etc/fstab resides with the bind mount points.
<a_e>Encrypted / is better.
<paroneayea>my guix talk went over great
<mark_weaver>yay :)
<paroneayea>smallish (10 people) turnout but everyone seemed enthused
<paroneayea>plus now I'm more confident for my LP talk!
<paroneayea> slides, for the curious
<mark_weaver>paroneayea: I've seen you speak, and your enthusiasm is quite contagious :)
<paroneayea>though a lot of those slides make more sense with me speaking
<paroneayea>thanks mark_weaver :)
<lfam>"One Language Package Manager Per Child" haha
<petter>Happy to hear it went good :)
<petter>was it filmed?
<NiAsterisk>oh, the slides look nice
<a_e>I had the pleasure of hearing a life talk at FOSDEM!
<rain1>is there a command to print out my current localstatedir? (or just what would it be?)
<a_e>Well, not just _any_ live talk, one by paroneayea, I mean.
<suitsmeveryfine>So, if I want to add an encrypted /home partition to the OS partition should I add it below the root device?
<a_e>I do not think that the order matters.
<suitsmeveryfine>but inside the list (cons)?
<mark_weaver>suitsmeveryfine: yes, and change 'cons' to 'cons*'
<a_e>Give me a paste service, and I can copy my configuration.
<a_e>(The problem is that the channel topic makes an advertisement exactly for the one we are not supposed to use; reading the text over and over again, this is the only one that I have memorised).
<suitsmeveryfine>I think I understand what I need to do but please paste it so that confirm
<NiAsterisk> is also nice. breaks some browsers because browsers/systems suck with mime types which don't exist yet, but nice.
<suitsmeveryfine>It's funny that Ctrl+B in zile doesn't work in the installer
<suitsmeveryfine>for going backwards
<a_e>Yes, it is straight-forward.
<civodul>"You are now a time wizard" :-)
<civodul>i like this one, paroneayea :-)
<suitsmeveryfine>thanks a_e
<petter>rain1: if you only want to figure out how you configured, you could check config.log in your source checkout
<rain1>I'm trying to build the source just now
<rain1>I need to do something like: guix environment guix --ad-hoc automake autoconf
<rain1>but I don't know what else to add in ad-hoc
<a_e>But this is only a temporary solution; if you can come up with encrypted /, unencrypted /boot, that would be most useful.
<petter>rain1: ah, i don't know about this
<rain1>I'm not sure how to compile my own guix is there a guide?
<civodul>it all looks super cool, paroneayea
<civodul>glad (and not surprised!) it went well :-)
<rain1>oh ./bootstrap instead of autoconf/autoreconf..
<petter>a_e: did you try modifying grub.cfg when you tried?
<rain1>and at the end do you really do make install?
<mark_weaver>rain1: don't run "make install"
<mark_weaver>after "make", run the guix in there by prefixing commands with ./pre-inst-env, e.g. "./pre-inst-env guix build emacs"
<paroneayea>civodul: :)
<rain1>ah thanks a lot!
<mark_weaver>rain1: also, on GuixSD and our binary installer, localstatedir is /var
<paroneayea>petter: it was filmed, but on some "blue jeans" network thing they use
<mark_weaver>rain1: so pass --localstatedir=/var to ./configure
<paroneayea>not sure if it's possible to extract the video from it
<suitsmeveryfine>mark_weaver: I forgot the procedure for reconfigure the system a second time when using the git archive. Should ./pre-inst-env be used every time or only the first?
<mark_weaver>suitsmeveryfine: every time
<suitsmeveryfine>what happens if I just run sudo guix system reconfigure?
<mark_weaver>suitsmeveryfine: if, like me, you end up wanting to *always* use the guix from your git checkout, then you can arrange for that by making ~/.config/guix/latest be a symlink pointing to your built guix git checkout.
<mark_weaver>suitsmeveryfine: sudo ./pre-inst-env guix system reconfigure
<mark_weaver>suitsmeveryfine: regarding my suggestion about ~/.config/guix/latest, a symlink like that needs to be done for every user that should use that copy of guix, so normally that includes both your normal user account and also root.
<suitsmeveryfine>even if I reconfigure using sudo?
<mark_weaver>suitsmeveryfine: if you make those symlinks for both your normal user account and for root, then "sudo guix <anything>...", including "sudo guix system reconfigure", will use that copy of guix.
<suitsmeveryfine>very good. I'll try to set this up when I've got this new machine to boot up.
<mark_weaver>I should mention that "guix pull" also creates (or overwrites) that symlink to point to an automatically-built copy of guix in /gnu/store/
<suitsmeveryfine>ah, so I should never run guix pull in that case, but only git pull, as we talked about the other day
<paroneayea> a photo of the talk though
<mark_weaver>the only caveat is that if your git checkout gets into a bad state, then 'guix' may not work properly as long as those symlinks in place. it will only work as well at that git checkout works.
<suitsmeveryfine>mark_weaver: shouldn't these instructions be added to the manual you think?
<paroneayea>luckily I had a pdf of the talk because they had 0 adapters for my 2 different display output options!
<mark_weaver>so that's the tradeoff. but in my experience, it works quite well, and in the worst case you can always remove the symlinks.
<paroneayea>remember when it was the mac people who always needed the dongles at conferences? those were the days
<civodul>lfam: i just noticed that the Perl replacement breaks 'make check TESTS=tests/packages.scm' (rebuilds the world)
<civodul>not really sure why
<lfam>civodul: Really? I thought I did `make check` first...
<mark_weaver>suitsmeveryfine: possibly, but some may view it as something of a hack :)
<civodul>paroneayea: woow, looks like a fine place :-)
<mark_weaver>it works well for me though
<civodul>lfam: yeah, dunno what happens
<paroneayea>civodul: yeah, a leather chair!
<paroneayea>civodul: this is hardly the fanciest part of stripe's office :P
<paroneayea>it's... pretty posh!
<civodul>i see :-)
<civodul>lfam: does it work for you currently?
<lfam>civodul: Rebuilding now...
<civodul>i'm testing other changes but going back to 44abcb2 doesn't seem to help
<lfam>Do you want me to test on a specific commit?
<civodul>just master
<lfam>Okay, it's running
<NiAsterisk>ACTION grumbles no guix, --dry-run -u * and then starting to build things is not a dry run.
<civodul>NiAsterisk: see
<civodul>but this is going to happen less often
<NiAsterisk>I was very confused when -u without something behind stopped working
<civodul>lfam: don't wait until it completes, BTW :-)
<civodul>NiAsterisk: it does work
<civodul>i think?
<lfam>civodul: Oh no? It's been running the builders test for a few minutes now.
<lfam>Should I stop it after the package test?
<NiAsterisk>not here anymore. maybe i should rebuild the system
<civodul>lfam: "make check TESTS=tests/packages.scm" should take a few seconds
<lfam>civodul: D'oh
<NiAsterisk>oh. thanks for the thread, civodul i'll read into it later. grafting happened already more than once here, but package -u not wokring but package -u * and *.* working got me confused
<civodul>"-u *" and "-u *.*" never worked :-)
<civodul>because these are not valid regexps
<NiAsterisk>well, now -u * works and -u doesn't
<NiAsterisk>ACTION shrugs
<petter>* unless inside single quotes will be interpolated by the shell
<lfam>tests/packages.scm is taking a while...
<civodul>lfam: it's rebuilding the world, you can stop it
<lfam>Okay :(
<civodul>don't worry, we'll find a solution
<petter>s/single //
<NiAsterisk>petter: but `-u` used to work, now the only working instructions are `-u *` `-u anything`
<lfam>civodul: Let me know if I can help in any way
<NiAsterisk>ACTION afk