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<suitsmeveryfine>maybe I was acually since I ran sudo in the terminal just before
<suitsmeveryfine>but I opened a new terminal and ran the command again and then I got only the second error
<lfam>If the command didn't start with "sudo" then it was not run with root privileges
<suitsmeveryfine>ok, it didn't start with sudo
<alezost>lfam: I just run dmd in my .bash_profile
<suitsmeveryfine>maybe these errors are due to my unusual full-disk-encryption setup
<lfam>I'm not totally sure but I believe that reconfigure requires root privileges. Try it with sudo
<lfam>alezost: Okay, thanks. I wasn't sure if there was some magic or if it was as simple as that.
<lfam>Do you redirect the output anywhere in particular? Just wondering if there is a "canonical" way
<alezost>I redirect it to $HOME/.config/shepherd/shepherd.log (previously to $HOME/.dmd.d/dmd.log)
<lfam>Alright, so no magic :) Cool
<alezost>lfam: I start it like this: [[ -z $(pgrep -U $(id --user) shepherd) ]] shepherd &>> $HOME/.config/shepherd/shepherd.log
<alezost>which means if it's already running, then do not try to run another instance
<lfam>Right, that makes sense
<lfam>Do you think that belongs in the GuixSD equivalent of /etc/skel?
<alezost>I don't think so, it's up to a user to decide if (s)he wants to use shepherd for user services or not
<lfam>Fair enough.
<lfam>Are there any other service supervisors packaged yet?
<lfam>I see pies (never heard of it, cool) and some skarnet stuff
<suitsmeveryfine>lfam: it seems that sudo was required, yes. For some reason I get a linux-downgrade though (4.3.3)
<lfam>suitsmeveryfine: It's possible that you haven't done `guix pull` since reinstalling?
<suitsmeveryfine>no I did guix pull just before
<suitsmeveryfine>I also installed the system with 4.4
<lfam>Weird. What versions are reported by `guix package --show=linux-libre`?
<lfam>Oh, did you `guix pull` as root? Each user has their own "view" of Guix.
<suitsmeveryfine>version: 4.4 and 4.2.5
<suitsmeveryfine>no I did guix pull as normal user, damn
<suitsmeveryfine>well it's finished now anyway so I guess that I can try and reboot
<alezost>lfam: I don't know about other service supervisors (and I've also just learnt about pies)
<suitsmeveryfine>lfam: success! I have successfully set up the swapfile
<lfam>Nice :)
<suitsmeveryfine>I did get an old kernel because I hadn't run `guix pull` as root so I ran `sudo guix pull` and reconfigured again and now I'm back with 4.4
<suitsmeveryfine>Yes, it's really nice. The next step is to try to enable suspend/resume
<lfam>And hibernate! That's my favorite
<suitsmeveryfine>Wow, it almost worked automatically. I just suspended and resumed. The only issue is that the mouse stopped working
<suitsmeveryfine>It almost never works the first time. Well, I guess that I need to reboot now to get the mouse back
<lfam>sneek: later tell suitsmeveryfine: I have to leave. Good luck!
<sneek>Will do.
<lfam>sneek: botsnack
***nckx|offline is now known as nckx
<Jookia>Does guix pull run tests?
<efraim>I don't think so
<Jookia>Is there a way to always build with debug symbols?
***francis7 is now known as incognito
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<civodul>Hello Guix!
<zacts>hi guix
***nckx is now known as nckx|offline
<civodul>ACTION .oO( It would be nice if M-x guix-challenge would spawn 'diff -r' on the differing copies... )
<Jookia>Is there a way to get an environment of a failed build, like 'guix environment coreutils'?
<Jookia>It seems running 'guix environment coreutils' is kinda useless for debugging the 'coreutils' build failure as it just tries to build 'coreutils' again and fails
<taylan>Jookia: 'guix environment coreutils' should not try to build coreutils, from what I know
<Jookia>taylan: It does on my machine
<Jookia>It doesn't on my eeepc
<Jookia>Maybe this is because I don't have coreutils built already and it depends on itself
<Jookia>And I'm not using substitutes
<Jookia>Passing --bootstrap doesn't help either
<civodul>yes there's bug which probably explains what you're seeing
<civodul>it is almost fixed
<Jookia>civodul: I'll try with that branch
<Jookia>civodul: That branch doesn't fix it
<Jookia>civodul: Oh woops, I may not have switched to it? Git please
<Jookia>civodul: Yeah, wip-environmental-profiles branch doesn't seem to fix it, oh well
<Jookia>And running outside of guix environment in a post-build failure gives dozens of errors unrelated to the one I'm fixing including double frees :(
<Jookia>Looks like I'm dealing with a bug in coreutils on btrfs :(
<Jookia>And it's a bug on my system too, NixOS just disabled the test :|
<Jookia>Actually, it's not a bug on my system! I wonder why it's a bug on Trisquel with the new coreutils
<Jookia>Hey there
<NiAsterisk>If I want to change/add some elements on the website (I am working on a collection of ideas which includes this), would I commit the patch to the devel list?
<NiAsterisk>*send not commit
<mark_weaver>NiAsterisk: yes, feel free to send proposed patches to the devel list. the git repo for the web site is here:
<mark_weaver>ACTION goes afk
<NiAsterisk>is there a way to build the website locally, so I can verify I do not create bad patches?
<mark_weaver>NiAsterisk: yes, cd into the 'website' directory, run "guile -L ." from there, and then do (export-web-site "/path/to/dir") where /path/to/dir is a directory where the HTML will be rendered.
<NiAsterisk>oh, thanks
***kelsoo1 is now known as kelsoo
<NiAsterisk>hm. the build-system smart enough to figure out if it needs lua-5.1 or lua-5.2 ?
<NiAsterisk>*is the
<NiAsterisk>nvm, lua is lua 5.2 just read the lua.scm
<NiAsterisk>hm, recent awesome-wm requires lua-lgi. is somebody working on this or did fail before? there's luarocks but I read somewhere back in the logs from last year that lua is supposedly hard to package
<davexunit>oh boy
<taylan>I'll make a package manager that rolls virtual dice to decide what actual software to install on your system
<taylan>it'll be a huge hit
<NiAsterisk>pen and paper players will love it
<mark_weaver>davexunit: wow. unbelievable.
<mark_weaver>and here I thought packaging systems couldn't get much worse...
<davexunit>the bright side is it's just an experiment. no one actually uses this.
<mark_weaver>clearly it was a failure in my imagination :)
<mark_weaver>heh :)
<civodul>davexunit: interesting link :-)
<civodul>lots of challenges for "traditional distros"
<civodul>davexunit: BTW, could you add the slides of your talk to guix-maintenance.git and on the web site?
<davexunit>civodul: yes, I've been meaning to do that.
***nckx|offline is now known as nckx
<myglc2>I'm doing a fresh guixSD install on a dedicated SSD with only 1 partition, can anyone suggest the most copacetic way setup/partition the drive?
<fps>i need to google that :)
<fps>"very satisfactory"
<myglc2>Sorry, the most likely to work. I had a problem with GRUB using the existing partitions so I thought I would just start fresh.
<fps>myglc2: you could use fdisk and mkfs from the installation image
<fps>hmm, what kind of problem?
<davexunit>myglc2: I used GNU parted to make an ext4 partition that I installed GuixSD onto.
<myglc2>My disk is gpt with bios_grub flags, detritus from a NixOS install.
<davexunit>my disk is DOS, not GPT, so I'm not sure if anything special needs to be done there.
<myglc2>OK, so GPT or DOS?
<davexunit>I'm sure some users here use GPT
<myglc2>Yeah, I was hoping to use GPT, but for NixOS I found I need the "bios_grub" flab
<davexunit>I am using DOS.
<myglc2>OK, so I'll just use DOS for now, Thanks.
<civodul><davexunit> I am using DOS.
<civodul>ACTION scratches his head
<fps>DOS partition table format?
<davexunit>DOS partition table
<davexunit>I have never used GPT. I don't know anything about it.
<NiAsterisk>out of context some quotes are funny
<calher>How do I install on Libreboot with FDE?
<df__>SLiM is telling me "Failed to execute login command" and there isn't anything useful in slim.log - is there somewhere else I should be looking?
<lfam>Is anyone working on the nginx security update? If not I can test the build and push
<mark_weaver>lfam: please do, thanks!
<lfam>Okay, will do. Did you see the openssl announcement? Update on Thursday. I won't be around to help for that one.
<davexunit>lfam: I was just about to post about that
<lfam>Anything keeping us on nginx 1.8? There is a 1.9 series
<lfam>I'll do the 1.8 update and then we can think about 1.9
<davexunit>lfam: 1.9 is the unstable series.
<lfam>Ah, that's why I asked ;)
<davexunit>it might be nice to package both.
<davexunit>they don't call 1.9 unstable, actually, they call it "mainline"
<davexunit>but 1.8 is "stable"
<lfam>Sounds like the same thing ;)
<lfam>unstable and mainline, that is
<mark_weaver>bah, another "high severity" flaw in openssl. we should try switching to libressl soon.
<lfam>mark_weaver: It's supposed to have compatible API, right? So what would we need to do in order to switch? Just change all openssl referrers to refer to libressl instead?
<mark_weaver>lfam: yes, but we'd want to do it on an experimental branch, and not now because we don't want to delay the security update in case of unexpected problems.
<mark_weaver>or maybe it's something for the next core-updates cycle
<myglc2>I just did a fresh guixSD install on a headless sever, how do I enable sshd?
<mark_weaver>actually, I haven't researched the issue of API compatibility myself, but iirc that's what Andreas said.
<lfam>mark_weaver: It seems that it has to be, otherwise nobody would use it.
<mark_weaver>myglc2: see 'lsh-service' in the "Networking Services" section of the manual. you need to add lsh-service to the list of services in your OS config and run "guix system reconfigure"
<mark_weaver>(and reboot)
<myglc2>Thanks Mark. I used the bare-bones config as a starting point, and it has lsh-service already in the "baseline". So I think I aready did that, but I can't ssh into the machine.
<bavier>myglc2: I'm not a user, but I recall hearing that lsh requires some sort of setup before it can actually be used.
<calher>oh crap, can i torify servers on guixsd?
<calher>Oh wait, nevermind. My server will run Trisquel and my laptop will run GuixSD.
<myglc2>Thanks bavier, that is probably what I am looking for.
<mark_weaver>lfam: please let me know when you've pushed the nginx security fix. I want to deploy it to hydra asap.
<lfam>mark_weaver: It built. I'm trying to test the resulting executable but I can't get it to respect my configuration of where to put the error_log. It wants to put it in the store which won't work of course. Testing nginx.conf:
<lfam>I can push if you think this is not important
<mark_weaver>lfam: did 1.8.0 work for you with the same configuration?
<mark_weaver>i.e. do you have reason to believe this is a new problem, or did you never have this working?
<mark_weaver>unless you know it worked before for you with the same configuration that you have now, I would just push it.
<lfam>Okay, I'll push
<lfam>mark_weaver: Pushed\\
<zacts>hi guix
<zacts>I'm running my first 100% free software cell phone with replicant
<zacts>I'm running guix on-top-of debian for now, but probably this weekend I'll be running guixsd fully
<zacts>the last time I tried I forgot to add the initial disk sector for grub2 + gpt
<zacts>and life got busy with my classes
<zacts>mark_weaver: bavier: thanks! :-)
<zacts>I'm using replicant with this new Cell Phone Provider / ISP
<zacts>but it's only a USA startup for now, but soon Canada, Mexico, and Europe hopefully
<zacts>they work really well with replicant
<bavier>I was just reading about ting yesterday
<bavier>someone posted a link on HN
<zacts>I prefer Ting over T-Mobile, Cricket, and Google Phone for sure
<zacts>bavier: I discovered them initially from the Linux Action Show podcast
<zacts>let me show you guys which phone I have.
<zacts>everything works except for bluetooth and wifi, but 3G celluar network works fast
<mark_weaver>zacts: what is an important advantage of Ting over T-Mobile?
<mark_weaver>ACTION is curious
<zacts>mark_weaver: I think customer service, and lack of need for non-free blobs to connect to their cellular service
<zacts>I think t-mobile wants monitoring apps, and things to use their service
<bavier>they're BYOD-friendly
<zacts>(I need to double check on this, but I needed several T-Mobile apps on a previous phone I think)
<lfam>zacts: Does Google bake those apps into Android? I'm using a stock nexus device on T-Mobile
<mark_weaver>I've heard that T-Mobile is also BYOD-friendly.
<zacts>lfam: some of them they do. T-Mobile TV I could not uninstall without jailbreaking the phone
<zacts>(thus my inductive logical conclusion, which may prove to be false)
<lfam>I think that must only apply if you buy the phone from T-Mobile. I don't have anything like that except for the visual voicemail app which I installed myself
<mark_weaver>Is it not possible to use a phone running Replicant and no additional non-free blobs with T-Mobile?
<zacts>but I like ting because of BYOD, but also the web app for monitoring my usage, and it uses only what you use each month, and the base fee is only $6 per month for the phone
<zacts>so if I use no texts one month, I don't pay for them
<lfam>Hm, that's interesting. I've been looking for something cheaper than T-Mobile.
<zacts>mark_weaver: I'm not certain, it may work with T-Mobile. I don't mean to spread misinformation at all. (disclaimer: Inductive Logic was the way I based my conclusions)
<mark_weaver>If Ting is truly more free software friendly than T-Mobile, I'd like to know, but I'm dubious.
<zacts>lfam: <-- this is the main reason I switched though
<lfam>I don't think any of the cellular carriers are not 100% user hostile. But if they let you BYOD then that is good.
<zacts>I can get an overall lower rate, but the data usage is kind of pricey
<zacts>but I also like supporting a company that aims to provide fiber internet, that isn't google
<lfam>Does ting do fiber too?
<zacts>they seem more co-op like (disclaimer: again, this is inductive logical)
<zacts>lfam: indeed
<zacts> i
<zacts>and I'm trying to get it brought to my city
<lfam>It looks like ting would be about the same price for my max usage, but it could be good on my slow months
<jonsger>yes it boots :)
<davexunit>I use t-mobile and I brought my own phone when I signed up.
<mark_weaver>I've always used my own (dumb) phones with T-Mobile.
<lfam>I always think of DJB's "I am the man in the middle" presentation when these issues come up
<lfam>IMO there's literally nothing cellular providers won't do to make money off you
<zacts>mark_weaver: but anyway, I'll try to gather the _facts_ on ting, and I'll let you know
<mark_weaver>T-Mobile seems to have much better policies than the other major providers in the US, but of course that's not saying much.
<mark_weaver>by major providers, I mean the ones that actually control their own towers instead of being forced to rent other provider's infrastructure.
<lfam>I was thinking of switching to metropcs since they are owned by tmobile but seem to provide the same service for less money
<myglc2>guixSD install failed, but succeeded with the --fallback option. The same thing occured with 'guix package -i emacs' Is this normal?
<lfam>myglc2: Not really. What messages did it fail with?
<myglc2>unfortunately I was running in tty console, so can't say. now that I have emacs I can run in a buffer and see what is going on.
<myglc2>the good news is that 'guix package --fallback -i emacs' succeeded after much huffing and puffing (~15 min) so now I have emacs, without which I am an abject incompetent
<lfam>It would be good to know because that usually shouldn't be necessary. And I believe that in some cases, it being required indicates that some build is nonreproducible (failed on but succeeds locally)
<mark_weaver>myglc2: heh, I can sympathize :)
<myglc2>OK I will have more specific info next time.
<mark_weaver>I wouldn't be surprised if substitutes from hydra are timing out now. hydra is not happy right now.
<myglc2>OK Thanks, good to know
<mark_weaver>hydra is (over)due to be replaced, and hopefully will be within a couple of months.
<nckx>ACTION was just installing his very first Guix and was a bit disappointed... Thanks for the info.
<CompanionCube>ACTION makes a mental note to put off trying out guix until hydra is faster/more stable
<lfam>Give it a little while. The bandwidth comes and goes throughout the day.
<mark_weaver>at the moment it's doing a much-needed garbage collection, and also at the same time I'm deploying a security update to it. this is especially bad right now.
<lfam>You don't need to wait the few months until we get a new server
<mark_weaver>most of the time it's slow but tolerable.
<CompanionCube>I can only imagine the CPU usage of a build farm that's constantly building and rebuilding things
<nckx>TIL: there's no binary S3-alike cache for Guix.
<myglc2>Oh I wouldn't wait... this is not to be missed. I spent a week trying to grock the Nix language and completely shorted out. this looks so much more understandable, at lease IMHO
<lfam>CompanionCube: This isn't even the build machines, just the front-end
<mark_weaver>the front end is a woefully underprovisioned VM, with not nearly enough RAM or disk or disk bandwidth.
<mark_weaver>we have grown, our needs have grown, and there was no room to grow on this particular VM.
<mark_weaver>so we'll be moving to a vastly more capable bare metal machine.
<nckx>myglc2: how HMOs can differ... I can't grok this at all. Yet. Still. Mainly curious about the Scheme-replaces-bash aspect.
<CompanionCube>I'm looking more into Guix than Nix because I can see the advantages of using a turing-complete actual programming language for configuration and description
<myglc2>I live in emacs and have always had trouble with {};'s so it might just be the soothing effect of these ()'s.
<nckx>CompanionCube: I'm pretty sure that Nix is theoretically Turing-complete. Which isn't the same as usably.
<CompanionCube>nckx, even if it is, it's a weird DSL
<CompanionCube>vs a complete, specified and usable language
<myglc2>I am not a language purist, but I appreciate that guix is using guile and this seems like a more leveragable thing to learn more about.
<nckx>CompanionCube: no disagreement. I'm just curious about how maintainable/disciplined a package repo in Guile is. And how laziness is achieved. Which is why I'm going to try it out in *checks installation progress*... oh, 2018 or so.
<CompanionCube>doesn't guix fallback to compiling all the things locally if substitutes cannot be found / timeout
<davexunit>nckx: what type of laziness are you referring to?
<lfam>CompanionCube: If there is no substitute available, then Guix will compile. But if the substitution fails for some reason, then you must specify "--fallback". That is my understanding.
<myglc2>Certainly did a bunch of compiling just now to get emacs installed. but hey, I like seeing that work and compute cycles are basically free.
<lfam>myglc2: Yes, the substituter most likely failed due to network issues. Although it would be good to know why.
<myglc2>lfam: so the next time I see this I will report some "possibly useful" details
<a_e>myglc2: This is quite certainly just a timeout because hydra is too slow right now. Nothing we could do at the moment.
<nckx>davexunit: as used in vs. (I'm not a CS, so my theoretical background is limited)
<mark_weaver>bad timing that hydra was already very busy with GC when I found out about a security update to deploy to it.
<davexunit>nckx: Scheme is eagerly evaluated.
<myglc2>a_e: please understand I am not complaining. emacs is installed and running and I actually don't care about the delay as long as it doesn't mean something is wrong on my box, heh.
<davexunit>I'm not sure what laziness you feel needs to be achieved.
<a_e>myglc2: Sure. I just meant that you need not spend your time reporting an issue.
<nckx>davexunit: I feel nothing.
<lfam>myglc2: The transparent substitution of binaries (when they are available) is a very nice feature in my opinion :)
<davexunit>nckx: the Nix language happens to use lazy evaluation, but that doesn't mean that it's the only valid evaluation model for a functional package manager.
<mark_weaver>Scheme is eager by default, but it also supports laziness where explicitly requested.
<nckx>mark_weaver: cool.
<myglc2>lfam: oh yeah, and I saw it working great yesterday.
<nckx>ACTION 's current knowledge of Scheme: oh look parentheses
<mark_weaver>actually, Guix makes use of laziness quite a bit
<davexunit>thunked record fields and such.
<davexunit>ACTION has to go.
<CompanionCube>it is easy to come over parenphobia
<CompanionCube>ACTION originally disliked the lisp family for parens everywhere but no longer cares
<lfam>Dealing with the parentheses is trivial with tools like paredit
<nckx>Editing my first config.scm in nano was fun.
<jonsger>I'll hope my donation will speed up hydra, 25KiB/s :(
<fps>df__: i looked for failure details or slim, too, at one point in time
<fps>i just went with creating .xsession and symlinking it to all kinds of places like .xsessionrc, .xinit and .xinitrc and start my stuff manually there
<fps>note that .xsession is marked executable
<mark_weaver>okay, I finished deploying the security update to nginx.
<mark_weaver>ACTION goes afk
<myglc2>This is a total turn-on: emacs comes with 'GNU Guix' INFO
<CompanionCube>myglc2, better
<CompanionCube>Guix comes with a emacs interface for managing your packages
<myglc2>Oh yeah, when I saw that in the video, I really didn't have any choice.
<myglc2>running guisSD, where is the best place to put /etc/hosts-type info?
<lfam>See (hosts-file) in
<myglc2>lfam: Thanks