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<fhmgufs>calher: It can.
<davexunit>GuixSD has an "activation service" type, which deals with things that should happen when a new system is instantiated.
<davexunit>for nginx, we create the relavent run and log directories at activation time
<calher>fhmgufs: But the docs said I had to use Ethernet.
<davexunit>calher: ethernet is just easier. you can get a network connection however you'd like.
<calher>but if i can get my ThinkPenguin long-distance WiFi adapter to work on the GuixSD live system, that'd be great.
<fhmgufs>Maybe it needs some firmware...
<calher>fhmgufs: Huh? It works on Trisquel by default.
<calher>The kernels shouldn't be too different.
<calher>Both use the linux-libre scripts.
<fhmgufs>I didn't know this thing.
<fhmgufs>And ThinkPenguin doesn't sound like ThinkGnu
<calher>fhmgufs: The ThinkPenguin WiFi adapters are FSF-approved.
<fhmgufs>I don't use wifi very often...
<fhmgufs>But, did you tried it?
<calher>I don't know how to get the WiFi to work from TTY.
<fhmgufs>I didn't tried it and don't know which commands are available.
<fhmgufs>Is there the wpa_supplicant
<calher>I don't need to enter a WiFi password.
<calher>My network is open.
<calher>Because I share with my neighbors.
<calher>Because I'm not an internet-hoarding dick.
<fhmgufs>Is netctl available?
<calher>IDK, I don't have a system booted right now.
<jin>hi, i try to create guixsd image, guix system disk-image --image-size=850MiB config.scm but show "Wrong type argument in position 1"
<jin>can you helpme?
<calher>OMG, that command... so awesome...
<jin>sorry, guix system disk-image --image-size=850MiB config.scm
<alezost>jin: maybe something in your config.scm, could you paste it?
<jin>is .. guix-latest/gnu/system/linux-initrd.scm of my system, without modifications
<alezost>jin: do you mean instead of config.scm you use linux-initrd.scm?
<jin>yes, i make a copy of linux-initrd.scm to config.scm in my home directory
<alezost>jin: this is not right, it should be a file with operating-system declaration. Why did you decide to use linux-initrd.scm?
<jin>i try to remove usbkbd from linux modules
<jin>i have the same issue, my keyboard not working when try to install guixsd
<alezost>jin: ah, so you want to test if removing usbkbd will fix your keyboard issue, rigth?
<alezost>jin: in any way you need to use a config file (with operating-system declaration), and you probably need to set 'initrd' field to exclude that module. Wait a minute I'll show how it should look like
<lfam>calher: I think that page is very liberal in its use of HTML, and also w3m is not actively developed for several years now.
<alezost>jin: 'base-initrd' procedure does not provide a way to exclude modules, so I can think only of putting a modified version of 'base-initrd' into your config. Maybe there is a more elegant variant, but I think it's ok for testing purposes. So config.scm should look like this: <>. Then you can "guix system reconfigure config.scm" and check your keyboard
<alezost>jin: I wish you luck with this horrible keyboard issue. it's time to sleep for me, so I'm out
<jin>thanks alezost
<lfam>I missed the first part of your conversation, but did you see commit 7ba903b6db? "linux-modules: Support 'modprobe.blacklist' on the command line."
<jin>hi lfam, i try modprobe.blacklist=usbkbd
<jin>since grub
<jin>but not working
<zacts>I may try guix out on this new laptop.
<zacts>I've been frustrated with forgetting that grub2 wants either MBR, or a special sector for GPT disks
<zacts>does guix have nmcli?
<zch><rekado> it's like people chose the easy way out on multiple occasions.
<zch>the rise of the worse-is-better philosophy
<calher>i installed Guix from the documentation's guide
<calher>how do i get the guix info pages in my documenation system...
<davexunit>set INFOPATH to point to the directory the info manuals live in
<Jookia>I'm compiling coreutils on my T400 and a test to do with sparse copying is failing- is there a way for me to step through the build process until I get to the tests then fiddle a bit?
<lfam>Jookia: If the coreutils Guix package is failing that definitely deserves a bug report. As far as your question, I don't know the absolute best way. Something like `guix environment --pure coreutils` will make your environment match that of Guix's coreutils build process. Then, you can manually try building coreutils in that environment until you get to the failing test, and play around from there.
<lfam>I'm not the expert on this topic, though.
<lfam>Okay, I don't know if that will make your environment match that of the Guix builders. But it will unset all your other environment variables, and give you the environment you need to build coreutils. It may be a pain without your normal $PATH, so you can add stuff with --ad-hoc, like this: `guix environment coreutils --pure --ad-hoc coreutils`. That way you have a working coreutils at your disposal. You could repeat --ad-hoc to bring in
<lfam>more software for you to use.
<Jookia>lfam: Oh, I understand that part- but I want to retrace how it builds- usually in NixOS you can drop to a shell for the build environment then run through the phases manually
<Jookia>I'll update the Guix snapshot and rebuild, maybe that'll help
<Jookia>Yeah, it's a bug maybe
<zacts>I'm thinking of putting GuixSD on here.
<zacts>I'm going to fdisk an MBR disk though
<zacts>hopefully it will work better this time
<Jookia>lfam: Do you know any way of enabling debug packages installed by default?
<Jookia>Is there a way to step through the build phases of a package in a shell?
<lfam>Jookia: I don't know a way to do what you described. It sounds pretty nice.
<Jookia>Is there a way I can Guix to use my own set of packages?
<lfam>Jookia: Yes, you can create package modules anywhere on your filesystem as long you point the environment variable GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH at them. But you should also consider contributing new packages to Guix!
<Jookia>Maybe I will, I'm currently sizing it up against NixOS if you can tell
<Jookia>I wonder if the 'right' way to do this is to load the builder in to a REPL and hit breakpoints somehow
<Jookia>lfam: The reason I ask is that I'm bootstrapping from a Trisquel live USB and having a Guix package set in RAM isn't useful
<lfam>You'll probably get better help on this channel in a few hours, if people come around on Sunday. Otherwise, on Monday.
<Jookia>That'd be great, though I have to learn on my own if I'm going to become the best there ever was at bootstrapping Guix
<lfam>Lol, you have to stand on the shoulders of giants to get there
<Jookia>I wrote the bootstrapping guide for NixOS which is coming in handy
<lfam>So far I've mostly focused on packaging so I really can't offer much help with bootstrapping GuixSD. But there are quite a few wizards here
<Jookia>I'm up for writing documentation (the best part)
<lfam>I have also helped with that :) The manual can always be improved
<Jookia>Can you run a Guix container as a system service?
<Jookia>I suppose call-with-container would do
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<Jookia>Is there a command to prefetch a file?
<efraim>if you want the source to build later you can do `guix build foo --sources`, or if you just want to download it and not install it you can do `guix build foo`
<Jookia>efraim: The official download doesn't work for me, with Nix I can use prefetch and specify my own tarball but I guess I need to modify Guix's packages?
<efraim>one of the packages fails to download?
<Jookia>Yes, I'm on Guix 0.9.0
<efraim>if you have the url for the tarball you can feed it to guix with `guix download $url`
<Jookia>oh really!?
<Jookia>Fantastic, let me test
<efraim>yeah, it returns the has of the file
<Jookia>Another wierd question: Do I specify -j and --cores in the guix-daemon instance, or in the guix package command, or both?
<efraim>that I don't remember, I think by default it tries to use all available cores
<Jookia>I'll have to mess with it a bit more.
<Jookia>guix download is not working that well as a user
<Jookia>It also crashes when run without arguments
<Jookia>Seems to be fixed in 0.9.1
<zch>How can I get guixsd on a vm?
<zch>specifically virtualbox
<Jookia>You can use the official images
<Jookia>And install it to a VM
<zch>i didnt see an iso's
<rekado>the installer image is a raw disk image
<rekado>you can use dd to write it to a usb thumb drive.
<Jookia>zch: Instrunctions here:
<zch>yeah, have that
<zch>I always try and rtfm, though sometimes I fail and miss things :/
<Jookia>Me too :)
<Jookia>I accidentally posted a question to the wrong guix mailing list >_<
<zch>why a raw disk image vs iso?
<Jookia>zch: What's the difference these days?
<zch>i was wondering if there was one
<zch>hmm, virtualbox says its not supported
<zch>that file type
<zch>wonder if changing the extesion to .iso will make it play nice
<zch>hah, yep
<zch>nope, virtualbox isn't recognizing it, when I try to boot it up i get a screen with 'no bootable image found'
<Jookia>add it as a hard drive?
<rekado>zch: somebody said that you should convert the raw image to vdi.
<rekado>but I don't know anything about virtualbox
<rekado>the command they give is this: VBoxManage convertfromraw guixsd-usb-install-0.8.3.x86_64-linux guix.vdi --format vdi
<Jookia>you probably shouldn't get too comfy with virtualbox if you're psyced about free software
<zch>Yeah, I know
<rekado>there are a couple of people here who have had success in booting the image with qemu+kvm.
<zch>that worked rekado
<zch>'Thanks for being so brave'
<rekado>I shouldn't have played with the cross-compiler recipes without saving them first.
<Jookia>I'm happy to see virtualbox isn't in guix repos
<rekado>now I can't get it to work anymore with the board ... :-/
<rekado>so annoying
<Jookia>Guix's documentation sold me
<Jookia>And lack of github
<zch>everyone sure does love github
<Jookia>I have to figure out Savannah
<Jookia>Though since I can send patches using free software it doesn't really matter where I host
<zch>Where can I see documentation on fuctions such as `(use-modules ...)`
<zch>i see the ref for os functions
<zch>Also, love that GuixSD is using a scheme dialect for all of its configuration. Makes it easier for me since I'm learning common lisp
<Jookia>I'm not a Scheme person but I love the idea of Guix being an environment manager rather than a package manager
<zch>why does guix give me an error saying that `no code for module (gnu packages i3-wm)`
<zch>I have (use-package-modules i3-wm i3status certs) in my system config
<efraim>try switching package-modules i3-wm and i3status for wm.scm
<mthl>zch: modules don't refer to package definitions but to "files" containing package definition
<calher>Weird. How does "04:11 < zch> specifically virtualbox" hilight me?
<calher>VirtualBox is non-free.
<zch>efraim: why doesn't `certs` need a .scm extension?
<zch>i know calher
<efraim>oh, you're right, doesn't wm doesn't need .scm
<zch>ill soon remove it and put guixsd on real hardware
<calher>It seems VirtualBox is set as a hilight for some screwed-up reason.
<zch>and with (packages ...) inside (operating-system ...), I then specify the package definition, mthl?
<zch>i3-wm, i3status, etc
<calher>Trying to get IceCat with Guix.
<mthl>zch: I don't use GuixSD but I think yes
<calher>Guix is awesome. I'm going to stop using distro-specific package managers and just use Guix.
<calher>It's Universal!
<mthl>zch: '(packages (cons tcpdump %base-packages))' taken from the manual.
<zch>oh yeah you can use guix on any distro right?
<calher>Yep; using it on Trisquel right now, zch.
<zch>hmm, guix giving me another error `/root/system-config.scm:7:0: error: extraneous field initializers (user)`
<zch>But all I have on line 7 is `(host-name "host")`
<zch>which the configuration manual has as well
<zch>oh, line 7 is actually (`operating-system ...)`
<zch>But why is it complaining about that
<rekado>do you have a field somewhere that's named "user"?
<zch>rekado: as a comment: `(comment "main user")
<zch>would that really cause such an error? lol
<calher>Crap, I forgot the Emacs keybinding for jump-to-line.
<zch>and i have `(user (cons (user-account ...`
<calher>Mm... It's nice to see Scheme everywhere.
<zch>but again, this is all stuff straight from the config manual, not sure why i'd get an error like this heh
<zch>calher: do parentheses excite you? :P
<calher>zch: #t
<zch>ACTION is a lisp noob if this is some lisp joke
<zch>i only know common lisp, and im just learning it, new to programming
<calher>I want to do everything in Scheme, because Scheme is the ideal Lisp.
<zch>apparently rms doesnt like common lisp
<calher>It's not very practical, but whatevs.
<zch>i hope some day i can see why he doesnt like it
<rekado>"and i have `(user (cons (user-account ...`" <-- that's the one it complains about
<calher>zch: And yet he designs Emacs Lisp after Comomn Lisp/
<zch>he says it doesnt feel like a real lisp
<calher>zch: Have you asked him?
<rekado>the field is called "users", not "user"
<zch>calher: no, read a talk of his
<zch>where he said this
<calher>zch: Link/video?
<zch>thanks rekado
<zch>calher: uhh one sec, it was on
<calher>Shit, I think Guix is trying to compile IceCat. My fan is going nuts.
<calher>Oh my, this will probably fail.
<calher>I wonder why there is no substitute for IceCat.
<zch>a fun read
<calher>Is it OK to guix package -i foo while another proces is already doing that for another program?
<zch>and again thanks rekado, i need to pay attention to details
<rekado>calher: are you using the latest version of Guix?
<rekado>calher: doing "guix package -i" simultanously as the same user will not work as you expect.
<calher>rekado: IDK, I went to the Guix site a few days ago and followed the installation instructions.
<rekado>have you done "guix pull"?
<calher>guix (GNU Guix) 0.9.0
<calher>rekado: No. That wasn't in the instructions.
<calher>Huh; I seem to get further along in compiling IceCat than I did last time.
<rekado>if no substitutes are downloaded there are two common reasons: there are none on hydra, or there are network problems.
<rekado>in the first case you'd have to make sure that you use a recent version of Guix (e.g. by doing "guix pull") so that the package recipes match the substitutes that *are* on hydra.
<rekado>in the latter case just retry later.
<calher>Hey, <> looks quite fine in w3m.
<calher>rekado: When should I do 'guix pull'?
<rekado>after initial installation of Guix.
<rekado>actually, we should have substitutes for 0.9.0.
<calher>Ha! "Since none of my usual speeches have anything to do with Lisp, none of them were appropriate for today. So I'm going to have to wing it."
<zch>`guix system: error: build failed: while setting up enviroment: getting attributes of path `/etc/resolv.conf': No such file or directory`
<zch>Do I need to create this file?
<zch>i also saw a lot of `possible unbound variable` warnings through compilation
<zch>not sure if thats normal
<rekado>zch: this should be done by dhclient
<rekado>you don't need to create this file yourself.
<zch>hmm, i dont have network access
<calher>Who's JonL? Does he explain the irony?
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<calher>Guix just has XFCE, right?
<zch>i3wm and ratpoison
<zch><3 i3wm
<rekado>there's GNOME, too, but I'm not sure if it works properly.
<rekado>zch: when do you get this error?
<rekado>what are you trying to do?
<calher>OK, i3 it is then!
<zch>`guix system reconfigure system-config.scm`
<calher>WTF? --
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<calher>I didn't know Guix grabbed stuff from dirty Mozilla.
<zch>Whats wrong with mozilla?
<zch>they write free software (though crappy and questionable at times)
<calher>zch: Thus, "dirty".
<zch>Once I get guixsd going im gonna try for a mouseless setup
<zch>I really want that
<zch>A combination of i3, emacs, and qutebrowser; should be good.
<zch>oh and weechat since i really dont like erc or any emacs irc clients
<rekado>what does weechat do that you cannot do with erc?
<zch>rekado: proxy support
<zch>I like to use Tor
<zch>on certain networks
<zch>If I was a good programmer I would probably make a weechat-like emacs irc client
<zch>weechat also has triggers, smartfilters, it has a nice ui
<zch>things erc just fails at for me
<zch>i also like all my irc channel buffers to be inside the irc client
<zch>with erc the buffers are inside emacs
<zch>err, the channels are inside emacs buffers8
<calher>zch: There is already a weechat for Emacs.
<zch>calher: ?
<calher>zch: Also, you could probably use proxies with ZNC and then connect to it through ERC.
<zch>calher: yeah thats what some guys suggested
<calher>zch: Just search the Web for "WeeChat.el" or something.
<calher>lol, secretaries tricked into Lisp.
<calher>"I'm not programming." "Um, but you're writing Lisp." "What's that?"
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<calher>It's hung at
<calher>And there's no progress indication on that file.
<calher>Is it huge?
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<rekado>calher: do you really want to build all of this rather than using substitutes?
<calher>I wish I had the Hurd so I could do du -h /ftp/
<calher>rekado: It woludn't give me a sub.
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<calher> /win 7
<zch>trying to setup the guixsd system config, getting an error that causes the build to fail; heres my config and exactly what im doing:
<rekado>calher: that's why I suggested running "guix pull" first.
<calher>rekado: How do I exit out of this safely, then?
<calher>Also, somenoe in #scheme is saying it's OK to use non-free drivers for WiFi cards because hardware contains non-free microcode.
<rekado>just Ctrl-C.
<efraim>tell them to go to #fsf or #gnu and say it ;)
<zch>calher: do you know scheme?
<calher>zch: Not really.
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<civodul>Hello Guix!
<zch>civodul: are you knowledgable of guixsd?
<calher>rekado: Were you the guy who said to do guix pull?
<civodul>zch: i've read about it, yes ;-)
<civodul>what's your question?
<zch>well, for anyone really who can figure out whats going on:
<calher>Doing guix pull...
<zch>trying to setup the guixsd system config, getting an error that causes the build to fail; heres my config and exactly what im doing:
<rekado>calher: yes, that was me.
<cehteh>zch: you have to start networking manually before starting the install
<zch>is thats what causing the build to fail cehteh
<cehteh>ifconfig the interface and dhclient
<zch>cool cool
<zch>cehteh: i only have a loopback (lo)
<zch>Maybe I should just put guixsd on real hardware lol
<calher>cehteh: How do I use WiFi?
<calher>(I don't have a password on my WiFi network, so it should be easier.)
<cehteh>first you need to figure out if your hardware is supported by the linux libre kernel .. some wifi cards are not
<cehteh>going wired is often the easier or only possible way
<cehteh>was it ifconfig -l which lists all devices?
<cehteh>you can also look into 'dmesg' output that lists which hardware is there and if its supportend and got renamed
<calher>cehteh: Of course my WiFi card is supported by the kernel...
<rekado>that's disappointing: gnunet-gtk built just fine but it segfaults when I switch to the "Network" tab in gnunet-setup.
<rekado>and the "gnunet-gtk" binary is non-functional.
<rekado>it's very wide with cartoonish images, but you can't do anything with them.
<fhmgufs>The Shepherd is builing totally succesfull now on ARM (No failing tests anymore.). Cool :)
<fhmgufs>And I think we don't need compatibility symlinks for the dmd and deco commands.
<fhmgufs>The are not as much users of the shepherd.
<fhmgufs>And I think all of them will know the new name.
<fhmgufs>At least when they install the new version...
<fhmgufs>And the links at the shepherd savannah project page are also working.
<mark_weaver>there are a *lot* of failed ghc-* builds in core-updates, even on Intel
<mark_weaver>civodul: I will restart all the dependency failures soon, but it's the number of non-dependency failures of ghc-* packages that is surprising to me.
<mark_weaver>right now I'm just focusing on the important package failures that are leading to thousands of dependency failures.
<mark_weaver>gettext-arm and coreutils-mips had test failures, and tar on one of the intel platforms failed due to the old unable-to-create-GC-root problem (because the file already exists).
<rekado>there seems to be a problem with haskell-build-system
<rekado>ERROR: In procedure regexp-exec: Wrong type argument in position 2 (expecting string): #<eof>
<mark_weaver>hmm, there are a lot of perl-* build failures too
<mark_weaver>rekado: yes, indeed!
<mark_weaver>another "Can't locate Module/ in @INC" perl failure here:
<mark_weaver>and here:
<mark_weaver>and here:
<mark_weaver>and and and
<mark_weaver>^^ all perl packages with the same problem "Can't locate Module/ in @INC"
<rekado>does the perl on core-updates install
<mark_weaver>rekado: I haven't used perl in over 20 years, and am quite ignorant about it at this point. dunno!
<mark_weaver>but perl was updated from 5.16.1 to 5.22.1 in core-updates
<fhmgufs>I don't know much about perl either but seems to be an important module which can't be thrown away in a few minot releases.
<fhmgufs>I think the @INC is set at build time of the perl package.
<calher>Has anyone used Haunt?
<calher>Is the Guix package for Haunt broken?
<rekado>calher: I use it for my blog.
<rekado>I'm not using the package in Guix, though.
<mark_weaver>I sent messages to guix-devel about the perl and haskell package problems on core-updates. I have to go afk now.
<rekado>calher: I use this:
<calher>rekado: I have WEB_TEST/haunt.scm and WEB_TEST/posts/ and it fails when I type haunt build.
<rekado>how does it fail?
<rekado>is this on GuixSD?
<calher>rekado: on Trisquel
<mthl>calher: Since Haunt is a young project, it is possible that if you pick an example from the web, it won't work because the code has changed alot since the first and only release
<rekado>calher: what is your GUILE_LOAD_PATH?
<rekado>it says it cannot find (haunt ui)
<rekado>but there is $HOME/.guix-profile/share/guile/site/2.0/haunt/ui.scm
<rekado>so, if GUILE_LOAD_PATH includes $HOME/.guix-profile/share/guile/site/2.0 things should be fine.
<calher>What is GUILE_LOAD_PATH?
<rekado>it's an environment variable specifying where guile looks for modules.
<calher>$ cat ~/.bashrc
<calher>PS1="$ "
<rekado>calher: what is in guix.scm?
<rekado>actually, the only important thing in the message mthl posted was setting GUILE_LOAD_PATH by sourcing $HOME/.guix-profile/etc/profile
<calher>GUILE_LOAD_PATH="$HOME/.guix-profile/share/guile/site/2.0:$GUILE_LOAD_PATH" in ~/.bashrc
<rekado>"guix package -i $(guix build -f guix.scm)" was only directed at the original poster who wanted to install something from a file.
<rekado>this looks okay.
<rekado>does haunt work now?
<civodul>mark_weaver, rekado: Perl's is not supposed to be deprecated, right?
<calher>Same results, rekado.
<rekado>calher: same as what?
<calher>The typescript I posted earlier!
<calher>ACTION frantically presses the Page Up key.
<rekado>civodul: I don't know much about Perl. But when cannot be found we should check that it is actually installed.
<calher>10:17 < calher> rekado: on Trisquel
<rekado>civodul: I don't have a build for the core-updates Perl yet,
<paron_remote>hey hi
<rekado>calher: so you still get "ERROR: no code for module (haunt ui)"?
<rekado>ACTION has to go
<davexunit>calher: I wrote haunt, so I may be able to help.
<davexunit>I need to make a new release.
<davexunit>among other things.
<paron_remote>good morning
<paron_remote>this morning I did a verification that what I thought about the kernel version being the culprit for my clock issues
<paron_remote>and it definitely is
<paron_remote>I'm not sure totally what *sets* the hardware clock to the time it thinks it is sometimes, since that is more inconsistent
<paron_remote>but anyway
<paron_remote>glad to really thoroughly test that so I know I'm not just claiming it :)
<paron_remote>I tested each kernel version 10 times :)
<civodul>paron_remote: woow, thanks for testing *this* thoroughly :-)
<davexunit>calher: your load path must be wrong.
<civodul>paron_remote: make sure to send the summary to!
<calher>davexunit: Which load path? What's it supposed to be?
<paron_remote>civodul: yeah will do
<calher>davexunit: I don't know what those are. I just followed the installation instructions and how to add packages.
<davexunit>calher: run this
<davexunit>guix environment --ad-hoc guile haunt -- guile -c '(use-modules (haunt ui))'
<davexunit>that should work
<davexunit>I noticed that the haunt package installs compiled guile files to the wrong place so guile will auto-compile everything during this
<davexunit>when I make a new haunt release and update the guix package, I will also fix this.
<paron_remote>yesssss python-hy now in guix?
<calher>davexunit: I'm running that command. It's DLing stuff.
<civodul>so, Perl dropped but we can add Module::Build as a separate package
<calher>davexunit: Results:
<davexunit>calher: perfect
<davexunit>so that worked
<davexunit>thus, the problem is with your profile environment.
<davexunit>calher: you must not have guile installed
<davexunit>'guix package -i guile'
<davexunit>that should do the trick
<calher>Will doing the command export INFOPATH="/home/cal/.guix-profile/share/info" be permanent?
<paron_remote>as a side note, I like this little gif about debugging ;)
<rekado>paron_remote: aka yak shaving
<davexunit>calher: that sets an env var for that shell, not others.
<paron_remote>rekado: true :)
<civodul>calher: you'll find it easier to source ~/.guix-profile/etc/profile from ~/.bash_profile, as explained at:
<paron_remote>I'm glad we now have shepherd to herd all our yaks
<davexunit>paron_remote: that's funny :)
<calher>civodul: Can I remove all the Guix-specific variable declarations in my .bashrc if I just add those two lines?
<civodul>calher: yes
<civodul>you can check the contents of this file
<civodul>INFOPATH may actually be missing, unless you installed Emacs or Texinfo
<civodul>so it's best to double-check
<calher>My new .bashrc --
<calher>PS1="$ "
<calher>GUIX_PROFILE="$HOME/.guix-profile" \\
<calher>source "$HOME/.guix-profile/etc/profile"
<calher># INFOPATH="/home/cal/.guix-profile/share/info:$INFOPATH"
<calher># PATH="$HOME/.guix-profile/bin:$PATH"
<davexunit>civodul, paron_remote, others: here's my pretty incomplete slides for wednesday's talk. feedback welcome.
<calher>OK, the INFO_PATH is in there.
<civodul>ACTION likes :-)
<paron_remote>davexunit: wow, these slides are really nice?
<paron_remote>what did you do them in?
<paron_remote>latex + beamer?
<davexunit>paron_remote: yeah, exported from an org-mode document
<davexunit>I still need to add pictures and stuf
<davexunit>and of course fill in the many WRITEMEs
<calher>davexunit: Different complaint now:
<paron_remote>davexunit: wow this is great so far
<davexunit>paron_remote: thanks!
<davexunit>calher: this one is interesting. it's a locale issue
<davexunit>when Haunt boots, it tries to set a UTF-8 locale
<paron_remote>wow davexunit
<civodul>! is awesome
<calher>I mean <>, if the dots are confusing.
<paron_remote>this talk is amazing
<paron_remote>do you mind if I just straight up give this talk at some local usergroups?
<calher>davexunit: Yeah, Guix didn't tell me how to set locale. It always complains about that whenever I do anything.
<efraim>slide 20: how about "Computers are hard, here's a picture of a cat instead"
<davexunit>efraim: hehe
<davexunit>calher: haunt should try to better handle this failure instead of crashing.
<efraim>cat in container:
<calher>s/haunt/davexunit :P
<calher>I mean (replace-string "haunt" "davexunit")
<efraim>curl | sudo sh? boo! here's a cat with a pipe instead!
<paron_remote>davexunit: I don't really have any suggestions on things to adjust
<paron_remote>davexunit: it's great
<davexunit>efraim: I may use this
<davexunit>paron_remote: thank you!
<paron_remote>really clean
<efraim>"i hear you like cats in containers, so I put a cat in a container in your container"
<davexunit>efraim: that picture is equivalent to (list cat-1 cat-2) :P
<efraim>not (list cat-1 (list cat-2))?
<davexunit>(cons cat1 (cons cat2 '()))
<davexunit>the boxes are cons cells
<davexunit>(list cat1 cat2) is short for the above
<civodul>davexunit: re PDF of your talk: looks good!
<civodul>davexunit: the intro is very nice, makes the case against Docker and status quo, i like it
<calher>"Usually, you will want to specify the default locale for the machine using the locale field of the operating-system declaration (see locale)." Well, I don't have an OS decl. because I'm on Trisquel.
<davexunit>civodul: thanks!
<davexunit>I'll post again when I have a near-final draft
<davexunit>I just wanted some approval that the general approach seemed good
<calher>GNOME's web browser hangs when I visit that BitBucket page. :o
<calher>OK, time to set locale...
<calher>Hm... I don't see anything in <> about defining it without a system declaration file, which Trisquel cannot have.
<civodul>davexunit: the approch looks good to me (starting from the problems, going to a solution)
<civodul>calher: see
<calher>civodul: OK, maybe I need to add export GUIX_LOCPATH="$HOME/.guix-profile/lib/locale" to .bashrc
<calher>Although it would be nice to just have it in the Guix profile.
<civodul>mark_weaver: can you reproduce the gettext test failure on armhf? could it be related to load?
<calher>davexunit: Does Haunt have any documentation?
<davexunit>calher: just what is on the home page right now :/
<davexunit>needs a texinfo manual
<calher>I tried writing Texinfo. I'm not good at it yet.
<davexunit>I've done it before. I just need to get around to it.
<davexunit>that and unit tests.
<davexunit>I usually try to just get a 0.1 release out the door first
<davexunit>and then start filling in this kind of stuff once it becomes apparent that other people actually want to use it
<calher>I want to use it because it's written in Guile. I don't want to have a dozen Scheme implementations around. If it's not on Guile, I don't want to use it -- Scheme or not.
<davexunit>for now, I can try to help you when you get stuck.
<davexunit>and we can work on producing better docs from this.
<calher>What does #:readers (list sxml-reader html-reader) do? Do I just erase those and do markdown-reader? :P
<davexunit>calher: no markdown reader at this time
<davexunit>that's a TODO
<davexunit>parsing markdown is nontrivial
<davexunit>calher: but anyway, the readers list specifies the post formats that your site can read.
<davexunit>ACTION goes afk to get lunch
<calher>Guile-Gnome is not available in Guix.
<efraim>so far no
<calher>Mm, writing pages in S-expressions instead of XML!
<ecraven>calher: really helps, doesn't it :)
<rekado>calher: I suggest using the skribe reader. It's even nicer than plain sexprs.
<rekado>calher: but you'd need the latest version of haunt. You can use this Guix recipe to install it:
<calher>rekado: Is that recipe going to be published soon?
<davexunit>calher: I'm going to make a haunt 0.2 release soon
<davexunit>when I have th etime
<calher>OK, how do I use this recipe, rekado ?
<calher>Hm, this recipe is dirty. It doesn't show license, etc.
<rekado>calher: dirty? No. It inherits from the "haunt" package.
<rekado>you can use it by placing it in a "$GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH/gnu/packages/rekado.scm", set GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH, and then do "guix package -i haunt"
<rekado>"(inherit ...)" is used when you just want to override a couple of fields.
<calher>rekado: Do I have to be admin to do that?
<rekado>you can set $GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH to "~/guix-custom", for example.
<rekado>export GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH=$HOME/guix-custom; mkdir -p $GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH/gnu/packages/
<calher>rekado: Huh, it's undefined.
<rekado>then copy rekado.scm there.
<calher>rekado: Why can't it be in a dir in ~/.guix-profile/ ?
<rekado>because you cannot write to ~/.guix-profile.
<calher>OK. Can I still make it a hidden dir?
<paron_remote> yikes
<rekado>note that the GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH is just a location where *additional* package recipes are read from.
<rekado>you could remove it after installation.
<efraim>does guix package take `-f`?
<rekado>packages would still be installed to the specified (or the default) profile.
<calher>rekado: $ curl > $GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH/gnu/packages/rekado-haunt.scm
<rekado>note that the file name (and path from GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH on) must match the module name.
<rekado>the module name is (gnu packages rekado)
<rekado>so if you name the file rekado-haunt.scm the module name must be changed to (gnu packages rekado-haunt)
<rekado>that's a Guile thing
<calher>rekado: (define-module (gnu packages rekado-haunt)
<calher>C-x Cs C-x C-c
<rekado>(I never leave Emacs)
<calher>How do you edit files as root? You can't enter your running emacs session from a root shell and automatically open a file, and tramp hangs.
<rekado>why root?
<rekado>I use tramp for that.
<rekado>(but in this case it's not needed)
<rekado>C-x C-f /sudo::/etc/config.scm
<calher>tramp hangs...
<cehteh>duh .. this crappy netbook already has DDR3 ram, 2GB .. and i have a leftover 4GB DDR2 which no device around likes
<cehteh>no upgrade today
<calher>Ah, so *this* is why GNU is trying to minimize root. They want to stop resorting to the horrible tramp!
<cehteh>anyone want a 4GB DDR2 module?
<calher>It's all to cover up a bug, lol.
<rekado>tramp works fine for me. There's also "/su:" if you don't have sudo.
<calher>rekado: OK, so how do I use this rekado-haunt.scm?
<rekado>eval (setq tramp-verbose 9) if you want to see more about what tramp tries to do when it hangs.
<rekado>calher: once it's in the right directory you can just do "guix package -i haunt" and it will take the one from rekado-haunt.scm.
<rekado>because the version number is higher.
<calher>rekado: Why can't I eval elisp in ERC?
<rekado>you can eval elisp anywher.
<rekado>just place the cursor after the expression and hit C-x C-e
<calher_emacs>(setq tramp-verbose 9)
<calher_emacs>Oh wow, it does eval, rekado!
<calher_emacs>C'est trés bien !
<calher_emacs>IDK how people can use ERC all the time. ERC loses connection and closes too much.
<calher_emacs>I really need to figure out how to access IRC and BitlBee from ZNC so I can access ZNC from ERC.
<calher>Because irssi isn't ideal; it's just the most stable IRC client I've seen that runs in tmux.
<efraim>i'm liking quassel, but irssi is my backup
<rekado>I have not experienced any connection losses with ERC.
<rekado>(and when my network connection dies ZNC+ERC reconnects me automatically)
<df_>supposedly weechat is an improvement on irssi but I haven't got around to trying it
<df_>there are also various other emacs-based ones
<calher>rekado: My laptop loses connection all the time, and ERC fails to reconnect after a while, and it just crashes.
<calher>OK, how do I write a webpage in SXML using Haunt?
<rekado>just SXML or Skribe?
<rekado>calher: here are examples:
<fhmgufs>Which are the inputs that gnu-build-system automatically adds to a package definition?
<davexunit>thanks for helping out rekado
<rekado>fhmgufs: it's %final-inputs in gnu/packages/commencement.scm
<calher>davexunit: Why did you put SRFI stuff in there? I don't have it with Guile by default.
<rekado>Guile comes with certain SRFI implementations
<rekado>haunt doesn't use anything that's not part of Guile
<calher>Then why can't I $(haunt build)?
<rekado>you need to show us the error message
<rekado>calher: better take this to #guile
<calher>rekado: ok
<fhmgufs>If a package extends autoconf/automake with makros, are autoconf/automake propagated inputs then?
<efraim>if it needs autoconf/automake in its runpath to work correctly, then yes
<fhmgufs>It just contains .m4 files
<fhmgufs>I ask because it's explicitly for building of other packages.
<fhmgufs>And noone would install it without autoconf and automake.
<civodul>fhmgufs: a package that simply installs m4 files doesn't need to propagate autoconf/autoconf
<civodul>it's just that *if* someone uses the package in conjunction with autoconf, then the macros will be automatically added to ACLOCAP_PATH
<fhmgufs>Ok, thanks.
<fhmgufs>I just saw that I don't need it.
<fhmgufs>The devolopers where so friendly and already included it in the release tarball.
<calher>Ah... C-M-k!
<paron_remote>ACTION wonders if he should package procmail or switch to something maintained ;P
<efraim>git-annex-remote-hubic solved!
<efraim>it just so turns out python-dateutil-2 is very much a different package than python-dateutil
<Jookia>Is there a Guix version of --keep-going? Having one build kill them all isn't good
<paron_remote>efraim: ooh are you adding git-annex?
<efraim>unfortunately no
<paron_remote>aw :)
<efraim>but since hubiC offers 25GB free and it integrates well with git-annex, I've been using it as a remote, and its nice to finally figure out why it was failing on me
<efraim>not tonight, but up next on "lets return to it on and off for months" is aria2
<fhmgufs>Do we have libunique?
<fhmgufs>I can't find it.
<fhmgufs>I know it's deprecated, but there are some applications left using it.
<efraim>not yet
<efraim>mpv also wants it
<davexunit>"Despite its problems, Docker is an approximation to a packaging standard which provides enough isolation to manage dependencies successfully."
<civodul>sneek: later tell Jookia unfortunately, no --keep-going yet
<sneek>Got it.
<fhmgufs>Does libunique belong to gnome.scm, glib.scm ...?
<paron_remote>it looks like I should use maildrop instead of procmail
<paron_remote>ACTION reads
<paron_remote>davexunit: the first commenter ( ) raises points that I sympathize with... I hope we can show that Guix people though can do all those things better!
<davexunit>this thread is driving me carriage
<davexunit>carriage? ummm
<davexunit>that was odd
<paron_remote>davexunit: I had a few people who are non-programmers listen to my "warehouse full of black box containers vs warehouse full of containers built and rebuilt by robots with lists of instructions" metaphor and say it was quite compelling
<paron_remote>maybe I should blog about it or something
<paron_remote>(the same one I gave in my talk at fsf 30th)
<davexunit>yeah it sounds like a pretty good little metaphor
<civodul>with rekado we had a metaphor with pizzas vs. recipes
<civodul>not uncommon ;-)
<paron_remote>ACTION wants pizza now...
<paron_remote>davexunit: I'm more driven carriage with this thread right now :)
<paron_remote>(although the poster is kind of right, which is why we need a guix-powered-userops future to work...)
<paron_remote>is right in "who has time" with the current state of things
<paron_remote>but we need to get past that state of things
<paron_remote>still an annoying poster
<davexunit>paron_remote: bleh, yeah.
<paron_remote>keep on hackin' I guess :)
<paron_remote>hackin' on down the line....
<davexunit>I'm worry that Docker has already won.
<davexunit>people *love* it
<civodul>the Muse thing looks interesting tho
<civodul>pretty similar to GNUnet
<civodul>not much code though
<paron_remote>davexunit: people also loved monogodb and stuff though
<paron_remote>present exuberance doesn't guarantee future exuberance, esp once the cracks start to show...
<davexunit>yeah that's true
<calher>davexunit: Why do people like Docker?
<calher>There's nothing on GNUnet. Why should I use it?
<paron_remote>hey mark_weaver
<paron_remote>a while ago you shared your anticapslock type setup for guix
<paron_remote>but the paste expired
<paron_remote>could you paste the config again?
<paron_remote>the capslock -> ctrl remapping stuff
<davexunit>paron_remote: not the same thing that mark_weaver does, but I just use xmodmap
<paron_remote>davexunit: oh thanks :)