<stormysea>hi, I am trying to learn about the possibility of running GUIX/GNU/Hurd on a system I wish to purchase. Where can I learn about this? All I have been able to find about about running GUIX on GNU/Hurd is that there is a "proof of concept." <Digit>:) good question. *watches this space* <francis7>mark_weaver, if you notice regressions on newer kernels in Guix, could you always try to bisect them and submit a bug report to kernel.org? <francis7>This is important for libreboot systems, since we don't always catch bugs in time before a new kernel release <mark_weaver>francis7: I'm sorry, but the regressions I'm seeing now don't reveal themselves until a fairly long and unpredictable amount of time after booting, and I have only one working Libreboot machine at the moment, which is my primary development machine. <mark_weaver>even if I had time to add another significant job to my plate, which I don't, it wouldn't be practical for me to do this. <mark_weaver>however, what I have done is to switch back to linux-libre-4.1.15 for now on my X60, and I'll report whether it seems to have the video playback problem or not. <mark_weaver>as for the epoch fail problem, I've never seen that happen. but then, my X200 is not functional at the moment. <mark_weaver>I've never seen it happen on my Libreboot X60 though. <francis7>this doesn't sound like a problem that can be fixed in coreboot <mark_weaver>(I never saw it happen on my Libreboot X200, but it've been a month or two since I was able to use it) <francis7>it sounds like a linux bug (epoch failure) <francis7>the video issue on your X60 too, is most likely kernel related <francis7>(we've had a lot of issues kernel-side for x60 especially, when it comes to video. I count at least 3-4 regressions we've had to get fixed upstream) ***francis7 is now known as francis
***francis is now known as fchmmr
***fchmmr is now known as emacsuser
***emacsuser is now known as vimuser
***vimuser is now known as francis7
***francis7 is now known as gnuuser
***gnuuser is now known as francis7
<NiAsterisk>I have something more pressing than gnunet-gtk after starting with a book from the 80s.. but i don't know much about licenses. interlisp wasn't free, but is this interpreter free in the sense I could not only package it localy but also upload a patch for guix? https://github.com/blakemcbride/LISPF4 <rekado>NiAsterisk: didn't you get quite far packaging gnunet-gtk? <rekado>I'd like to play with it and if you don't mind I could try to finish what you've started. <NiAsterisk>almost done.. I'm stuck debugging, but more stuck with a list of things I need to organize to get more room for packaging. <NiAsterisk>yes, go ahead :) if somebody has their time schedule not so full as mine currently, i'd like to see gnunet-gtk out there. I'll send the latest versions I had later today to the dev list <NiAsterisk>i'm new to this pcakage system, and while it was easy on gentoo to package for me, guix and debugging gnunet-gtk makes it a bit more difficult while I still learn about guix and what's available and not etc <rekado>re time management: I'm trying to follow a variant of "Getting Things Done" built around org-mode. <mark_weaver>hmm, my polkitd is using 195% CPU for quite a while now, keeping my X60 warm. <rekado>NiAsterisk: it's essentially: write everything down, determine next immediate step, review list once a week. <NiAsterisk>and now I'm trying to apply it in some way which fits my current vast amount of time and too much things I'm working on. <rekado>I have yet to make it work for email. There's org-capture, but I haven't quite reached a point where it's convenient. <rekado>I'm not following it religiously, but at least I can keep track of the very next step I need to do for each of the many things that are WIP. <NiAsterisk>i'm not so convinced that emacs is okay for me for planing.. despite my dislike for "clouds", I do take lots of notes when I'm on the road or need to look up things.. I don't want to use papers, so I am using a proprietary websolution for now until I can try out open solutions on my own servers. <NiAsterisk>and I want to combine email + projects in a workflow at some point, so I guess some combination of software on laptop + papers for things on the go are better. <NiAsterisk>tbh org-mode planing looked to difficult to apply for me at the moment. It might work, but i need something which is easy accessible first, because for years I tried to get into planing and organizing and all concepts I tried failed. <rekado>I usually have my laptop with me. When I don't I have a little notepad to quickly jot down things that I add to my org file once I'm home. <rekado>(if the proprietary solution is trello: there is an Emacs package to sync trello to org-mode) <rekado>org-mode has a *lot* of features and I'm probably using less than half a percent to organise stuff and keep track of projects. <civodul>sneek: later tell alezost the top of the package-info buffers has changed from a large-font title with the package name to a small (and IMO useless) link; would be nice to revert maybe? <NiAsterisk>no, it's todoist what I currently use.. but I found some open self-hosting solutions. so what I need to figure out are priorities mostly.. like, get sports + packaging + learning coding languages + learning/refreshing spoken languages + writing etc etc into an schedule which doesn't break me after a while. <rekado>(for learning/refreshing natural languages I suggest the Assimil book series; they are really good and somewhat unusual in their approach) <rekado>(setting priorities never worked for me; I just make sure to have *something* with me on the commute, either laptop or books. This approach doesn't work too well with sports, though.) <NiAsterisk>(hm. thanks, I'll take a look at the books. so far I tried to avoid closed source applications. traveling to (france,spain,uk/us) and the countries where I want to learn an entire new language would be the easier fix, but travelling costs money.) <fhmgufs>Hello, have you done an upgrade to dmd (shepherd?)? It has sucessfully built now on ARM. <fhmgufs>Or is this distribution specific? I tested it with debian 8 before and now on Arch Linux ARM. <fhmgufs>When I tried to build it the last time the test respawn.sh failed. <civodul>fhmgufs: the failure was non-deterministic, it has been fixed upstream but not in Guix <civodul>so i guess you've just been lucky this time ;-) <fhmgufs>Do you know what's the reason for that bug? <fhmgufs>civodul: Oh, i didn't read your last line. So, when is that going to be fixed in guix? <fhmgufs>Or, maybe, how long does it take until shepherd will be released? <paron_remote>debian and guixsd store state stuff in fairly different places <paron_remote>I wonder if I am playing with fire if they both use the same /gnu/store :) <civodul>application state usually goes to /var/run or /run <paron_remote>ACTION has a shared home pratition between debian and guix <paron_remote>I think it'll be fine as long as I'm careful to have different profiles <civodul>the shared .guix-profile can only work if the underlying store is also shared <civodul>otherwise it might work dependending on the phase of the moon <civodul>but that's usually not a sufficient level of assurance ;-) <amz31>paron_remote: how do you deal with dual booting debian and guix? <paron_remote>amz31: I have them on separate partitions, and have an encrypted /home/, which is mounted on both <paron_remote>and I have each write out their own grub to their own root partition, and have the root grub load each distro's grub.cfg <paron_remote>ACTION not sure the other coffee shop patrons appreciate all the package installing he's doing... <efraim>in the morning I put my coffee near the fan-out spot on my netbook <paron_remote>probably, though at least that one you can't hear over the other coffee shop noise <paron_remote>efraim: noticably the fans are noisier on the x200 I got from minifree, but also the laptop internals stay cool, which I often had problems with the x220 getting too hot <efraim>my x120e doesn't get noisy, but it does get hotter than I'd like <efraim>compiling i'm at high 90's, normal is 70's or 80's <efraim>i installed the proprietary amd video driver as a test, at rest the laptop went down to 63 <efraim>it'll be 4 years feb 29th, and i'm into my 3rd battery now, it's survived pretty well <rekado>I sent the test log for GCJ on ARM to the GCJ mailing list and got confirmation that GCJ must be broken on ARM. <davexunit>soooo I just learned something that may complicate our Chicken package <davexunit>"Since Chicken's compiler always generates C code, which is then compiled by GCC (or Clang), one just releases both the source and the compiled C files." <bavier>I was wondering about that while reading wingo's latest article <davexunit>there's a bunch of machine generated C files in it <davexunit>"Generated from optimizer.scm by the CHICKEN compiler" <davexunit>there's a really common misconception that machine generated text files are somehow not binaries <davexunit>they aren't source code, so they are binaries, effectively. <df_>but the source code is there? <davexunit>but how do you build that code without a pre-built Chicken compiler? <df_>how do you build gcc? <davexunit>a pre-built GCC is one of our bootstrap binaries, but GCC is absolutely essential. <davexunit>I've heard talk of creating a tiny C compiler in assembly (for each platform) that can bootstrap GCC <rekado>as discussed a while ago, with some effort we might be able to do without GCC binaries. <davexunit>I saw where df_ was heading and wanted to nip that <rekado>our bootstrap binaries include Guile. It's certainly easier to write a tiny C compiler in Guile. <davexunit>rekado: no, because it just makes Guile the target ;) <davexunit>we need tools written in assembly to bootstrap everything <df_>but is auditing tools written in assembly any easier than manually verifying that a compiler has done its job? <davexunit>just enough to bootstrap the next piece of the chain <rekado>well, but it would still get us one step closer, by allowing us to drop the GCC bootstrap binary. <davexunit>rekado: sure, as a short-term solution that is good. <rekado>and to bootstrap Guile we'd hopefully need a smaller subset of a C compiler ... which could then be written in assembly (yuck) <sprang>how about something like: assembly -> forth -> scheme -> C compiler <sprang>plus, you'd probably want to focus on readability/verifiability over performance anyway <df_>so you need an assembler and something to generate the native executable format of your platform (ie ELF I guess) <davexunit>there's likely a way to hand-write something minimal that can do that <df_>I think you have to have some kind of minimal binary to start from, but maybe it should come with extensive documentation <df_>byte-by-byte explanation <df_>although is that any better than distributing a generated binary along with its source? <sprang>he has an intermediate lisp stage <sprang>doesn't GCC use some C++ code now? can it be bootstrapped with only a C compiler? <sprang>hmm, that makes it a lot more complex <davexunit>but an old version of gcc could perhaps build a newer one :) <civodul>rekado: hmm this causes a full rebuild starting from gcc-cross-boot0, right? <civodul>actually no, no rebuild involved apart from the cross-compiled things <rekado>civodul: thanks. I'll push it to core-updates as suggested. <sneek>Welcome back alezost, you have 1 message. <sneek>alezost, civodul says: the top of the package-info buffers has changed from a large-font title with the package name to a small (and IMO useless) link; would be nice to revert maybe? <alezost>civodul: it's a bug indeed. I didn't notice it because both 'guix-package-info-heading' and 'guix-package-info-name-button' faces are the same for me. I've just pushed a fix. <civodul>it always says "A single package with name foo" for me <alezost>yes, but it may be useful in some special situations :-) Sometimes I wanted to have this button in the past <civodul>ok but what is it supposed to do? :-) <alezost>civodul: It searches for packages by name. After "M-x guix-search-by-name guile" you'll get several guiles. After RET on any guile-2.0.11, this exact guile will be described. If you press this heading button, all guiles matching "guile-2.0.11" name will be shown. <alezost>civodul: My common use case however is: if you kill Guix REPL, then switch to a Package Info buffer and try to update the buffer with "g", you can't do it because an old object-address of this package is dead, so you can press this button to find packages with this name <alezost>civodul: And finally, there is a really useless option: try (setq guix-package-info-type 'output) and then press this heading button (press "l"/"r" to compare what you see) <paron_remote>so I tried export GUIX_PROFILE=$HOME/.debian-guix-profile <paron_remote>I expected it to put everything in ~/.debian-guix-profile but no cigar <civodul>it's only used in the etc/profile file of the profile <civodul>so you can: export GUIX_PROFILE=foo; source $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile <paron_remote>I set up some environment variable so it defaults to a different profile <paron_remote>"guix package -p" can do it, but not all guix subcommands take -p, and I'm not sure how to handle emacs knowing what profile to use <civodul>you could always do something in ~/.bash_profile like: export GUIX_PROFILE="$HOME/.$(hostname)-guix-profile" <bavier>I was looking for something like this recently too. Some way that I could have my default profile no in ~ <civodul>or maybe 'guix package' should honor $GUIX_PROFILE <paron_remote>booting two separate distros on different partitions that each have guix as a package manager on them, and then sharing a /home/ :) <civodul>i didn't understand it, but you probably were expecting that?