IRC channel logs


back to list of logs

<rekado>Is it okay for a game executable to be installed to $out/games or is this unusual?
<rekado>maybe there are people who want to keep their tools and games separate.
<mark_weaver>rekado: I think it should go in OUT/bin
<mark_weaver>and I do think it's unusual and unjustified
***davi_ is now known as Guest88349
<rekado>this application expects to find /dev/dsp, but I don't have it. Do you know what kernel module must be loaded for this device?
<rekado>ACTION goes afk
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<efraim>its also in the mailinglist :)
<civodul>it's good to have more speakers for Guix
<bavier1>sounds like it'll be a fun talk
<efraim>two things i've been thinking about:
<efraim>because of the license zfs support has to be compiled in by the end user, it should be easier to add in to guix than other distros
<efraim>and for guix refresh, some sort of lambda replacement with (method url-fetch) and the version number could work to see if there's a new version
<rekado_>"compiled in by the end user" --- do you mean when building the kernel?
<rekado_>(personally, I'd like to have a realtime patched kernel in Guix, but I wouldn't know how to approach this.)
<efraim>i haven't looked at it in a while, but i'm pretty sure the cddl license effectively means you can distribute source but not binaries in relation to the GPL, so if you didn't want zfs-fuse then it would have to be a kernel module
<efraim>i'll have to look at it more again
<rekado_>"#:substitutable? #f"
<efraim>speaking of building locally, texlive got another update
<efraim>i mounted tmp in ram on my machine, that was a pain a few months ago when it got like 3 updates in a row
<efraim>it kept on failing when i ran out of space and had to make the tmpfs bigger
<civodul>efraim: 'guix refresh' needs love, so if you want to try out something, don't hesitate :-)
<efraim>zfs sounds interesting, but I love seeing that I have updates, so guix refresh gets loving first
<efraim>actually I think the last time I looked at zfs was before ZoL so my information looks about 3 years outdated
<civodul>the NixOS folks stop providing texlive on their Hydra instance some time ago
<civodul>(even though their instance is much more powerful than ours ;-))
<antiatom>Does dmd have a separate channel, or is that discussed here as well?
<rekado_>ACTION did not expect the most recent response in the r-qtl patch thread :(
***francis7 is now known as fchmmr
***fchmmr is now known as francis7
<civodul>antiatom: it's here as well
<civodul>rekado_: yup indeed
<civodul>are we demanding too much in reviews?
<civodul>that is the question
<rekado_>sneek: later tell davexunit Long rant that has it all: Ruby, Rails, Docker, curl pipe sudo, web development: ;)
<sneek>Will do.
<rekado_>sneek: later tell civodul I don't think we do. If the same mistakes are made over and over again (e.g. wrong case in synopsis, unexplained acronyms, unhelpful descriptions, bad indentation) I don't think we should just shrug and fix this for the contributor.
<rekado>yay, IRC port has been opened! Finally I can chat from within Emacs at work.
<karhunguixi>ACTION is considering getting acquainted with Emacs
<rekado>karhunguixi: it's totally worth it if you do a lot with things that can be represented as text (shell stuff, email, chat, code) and it works great as a way to send code to REPLs.
<karhunguixi>i do primarily relate to text
<karhunguixi>i chose vim by basically a coin toss
<davexunit>morning guix
<sneek>davexunit, you have 1 message.
<sneek>davexunit, rekado_ says: Long rant that has it all: Ruby, Rails, Docker, curl pipe sudo, web development: ;)
<davexunit>oh boy. thanks rekado
<davexunit>that domain name is very familiar...
<davexunit>haha it's about Discourse
<davexunit>"Let’s just say it rhymes with “piss horse”."
<davexunit>reminds me of the Mitch Hedberg joke: "I can't tell you what hotel I was staying in, but there were two trees involved."
<davexunit>man this is a detailed explanation of exactly why we need things like Guix and Nix.
<davexunit>of course, the HN thread seems to be in complete disagreement?
<davexunit>"what do you mean it sucks? la la la I can't hear you!"
<rekado>karhunguixi: I used to use vim for years before moving to Emacs. Never looked back. If I did I could still use evil-mode anyway.
<davexunit>people complaining that it's eevee's fault because he's a multiarch system.
<rekado>yeah, "your fault for using a 32bit system!"
<davexunit>Docker should never be a dependency for running a piece of software.
<davexunit>Docker is a platform on which to run software that *ought to run elsewhere, too!"
<davexunit>"If you use 32bit Linux in 2015 you deserve the pain you just endured." - literal quote from HN
<davexunit>and then the GitLab guy says how great using Omnibus is instead
<davexunit>dear god
<karhunguixi>rekado, nice. I've installed Emacs now.
<davexunit>pardon my language, but we're fucking doomed.
<davexunit>ah, and of course the obligatory "just use Heroku" comment.
<davexunit>literally no one cares.
<karhunguixi>would his case with a 64-bit kernel and 32-bit userspace be well handled by Guix?
<davexunit>we have well documented switches that allow users to build for architectures other than the native host architecture.
<rekado>but that's not really important anyway. Why would some simple discussion forum need to be used on 64-bit systems only?
<rekado>the reason here is only: "because that's what we use"
<paulo>hello :)
<karhunguixi>Hello paulo
<rekado>karhunguixi: note that Emacs looks and behaves oddly by default. Many people heavily customised their Emacs and would not be comfortable with a default Emacs (or anyone else's Emacs).
<rekado>karhunguixi: I only stuck with it after three attempts. The first was a default installation, the second with a "starter kit", and finally a custom configuration that evolved as I encountered behaviour I didn't like.
<karhunguixi>I see. Do you have a resource you would recommend?
<karhunguixi>Not asking for a solution, but can you have Emacs show a tray icon with number of unread e-mails?
<karhunguixi>I haven't found an e-mail client i'm happy with yet, so i was thinking of trying Emacs for this.
<davexunit>karhunguixi: I have an elisp package that I need to fixup that does this if you use Notmuch
<davexunit>called notmuch-unread-mode
<davexunit>it's not a "tray icon" in the sense of a GUI, though
<davexunit>it's in your emacs modeline
<karhunguixi>i just installed Emacs, so only using defaults now.
<davexunit>well you should take it slow
<davexunit>learn the basics before trying to customize heavily
<davexunit>the best configs are one that evolve organically as needs arise.
<karhunguixi>Do you need the Emacs window open to see number of unread e-mails?
<davexunit>but I always have an emacs window open
<davexunit>I've decided to transfer my ranting to GNU social/twitter.
<davexunit>this article and the responses on HN have fueled my pessimism.
<davexunit>and no one even mentioned Nix, let alone Guix.
<davexunit>guess we have to keep making noise about our work and hope it catches on.
<xentrac>making noise is good
<davexunit>basically, it better catch on or I don't know how long I can last in this industry.
<xentrac>fuck the industry
<efraim>i tried emacs a while ago but found it hard to get into
<davexunit>it has a learning curve
<efraim>i'm using vim for a while now, and now that I've figured out moving around and typing at different times i've finally started looking at addons
<davexunit>but it is seriously the best way to edit and get stuff done.
<davexunit>vim may have terseness in its modal editor, but it's extension system is terrible, and it lacks many capabilities that emacs has.
<davexunit>emacs can view images, read pdfs, read email, browse the web somewhat, connect to irc, etc.
<efraim>irc i have through quassel atm
<efraim>found again, i'll spend some time there during my break
<csed>Anyone running Guix on an X220? Curious because I saw this:
<csed>Not sure if Libreboot is far behind or not.
<rekado>efraim: I often found less than helpful. Lots of outdated info. I had more success asking questions on
<francis7>csed, X220 requires blobs.
<davexunit>csed: yeah ^
<efraim>thanks rekado
<davexunit>I have an X220
<davexunit>which runs GuixSD
<francis7>csed, I recommend not using the X220. Instead I recommend an X200 with libreboot. If you absolutely must use the X220, check out autoboot is a blobbed fork of libreboot.
<davexunit>I may install coreboot to get rid of the fully proprietary BIOS, but it won't rid me of blobs.
<DusXMT>ACTION isn't a fan of the emacs all-in-one design. Sure, it's lisp, it's nicely modular, it's configurable, but I'd rather have a lot of small utinities than one big one. That's just a personal opinion though
<davexunit>francis7: I may give that a shot.
<csed>francis7: Yeah? Well, crap. I guess you'd be selling them if it supported Libreboot.
<francis7>ACTION is not involved with autoboot, he merely knows that it exists.
<francis7>csed, damn right.
<francis7>I'll sell any computer, but only if libreboot or equivalent libre firmware supports it.
<csed>Eh, it's fine. Was just curious, really. An X200 is more than enough for what I need.
<francis7>autoboot isn't libre, but the author forked libreboot to create it, re-using libreboot's automated build system.
<francis7>csed, if you do decide to go for the X200, sells it with libreboot pre-installed.
<csed>davexunit: With Libre Linux, or?
<francis7>That's a rebranded gluglug.
<csed>francis7: Yep, I know. Now with eagles. I'll order one as soon as I save up the money.
<francis7>davexunit, give what a shot?
<francis7>davexunit, mrnuke expressed interest in working on the ME on his T520, which his employer gave to him. (coreboot supports it). same chipsets as the X220. I doubt that the ME issue can be resolved there, though.
<karhunguixi>i'm very happy with my Libreboot X200
<davexunit>francis7: give autoboot a shot.
<francis7>and he might even have a shot, since he works for intel.
<efraim>i'm using an x120e, using an amd e-350
<davexunit>francis7: wow, so there's a glimmer of hope then.
<francis7>davexunit, it only means that the probability is 0.002% instead of 0.001%.
<davexunit>yes, keyword being "glimmer" :)
<rekado>DusXMT: I'm using lots of small tools that are glued together by Emacs.
<davexunit>won't hold my breath.
<francis7>actually, this is mrnuke, so I'd say 0.003%
<davexunit>I'd like my next laptop to be fully liberated, but I'm not interested in ditching my x220.
<francis7>fair enough
<francis7>davexunit, talk to kl3 in #autoboot. He's the maintainer of autoboot.
<davexunit>francis7: cool, thanks.
<csed>DusXMT: I'd agree that depending on a single tool for as many things as I do (really, a messload) is bad. I'd prefer to use a number of smaller tools, but I always get annoyed by the fact that they're different in some stupid way. Configuration, argument syntax. Hell, I've even seen wonders with return codes.
<davexunit>this is why it makes sense to use a single tool
<csed>That's one of the reasons why I use it, yeah.
<davexunit>emacs is a platform for text-based, keyboard-driven UIs.
<csed>Not a bad definition.
<francis7>csed, koz_ in #freepost designed that eagle logo.
<csed>francis7: It's fab.
<francis7>If you need a graphics designer, he's your man.
<csed>I worked as a web dev for three years before becoming a sys admin. I really hope I never have to deal with designers again, even though I'm sure he's great.
<francis7>He designed 4 logos
<francis7>I chose that one
<francis7>I even paid him, voluntarily, because I thought he deserved it for such fine work. It didn't take him long either.
<francis7>A few other people also made logos, but I didn't like their ones.
<francis7>(I spammed the libreboot mailing list and IRC channels, to look for designers)
<paulo>Maybe you can help me ? I try to change the keymap of the kbd for the user ... thas anybody knows how?
<karhunguixi>are you in the console?
<paulo>but also in X
<paulo>only roots allows loadkeys
<paulo>not users
<karhunguixi>oh, i don't know how to do it without root privileges
<paulo>I have root privileges ... how you do it?
<karhunguixi>sudo loadkeys dvorak
<karhunguixi>for example
<paulo>no, did not worked ...
<paulo>also that's not good to put under .bashrc
<karhunguixi>that's the command i use when i'm not in X
<paulo>yes I know, that works for ROOT but not for user ...
<paulo>under this system anyway
<karhunguixi>it works for my user
<rekado>for X I use this: setxkbmap -layout dvorak -option ctrl:nocaps
<rekado>outside of X I use "loadkeys dvorak", but when I'm not in X I'm usually root, so I don't know if it works for regular users.
<rekado>paulo: do you get an error when using loadkeys as a normal user?
<karhunguixi>you need to use sudo for a normal user outside X
<paulo>nota a error, but it "can't get a file descriptor ..."
<paulo>in what package are setxkbmap ?
<rekado>paulo: there's a package of the same name
<paulo>guix package -search=setxkbmap gives null
<rekado>guix package --search=setxkbmap
<francis7>davexunit, btw, is generic, and can be used for externally re-flashing any laptop that uses SPI flash
<francis7>regardless of whether libreboot supports that laptop
<paulo>ok tanks ! I' ll try it :)
<karhunguixi>paulo, don't your desktop environment provide a way to change it?
<paulo>Itry to use guile-wm ...
<paulo>I try to put pt-latin1 as the keymap under user
<karhunguixi>oh, interesting.
<paulo>OK it works !!! Tanks a lot !
<paulo>(my first time with GuixSD )
<paulo>but will it be persistent ?
<karhunguixi>i'm unable to use "modprobe -r", however "rmmod" works. Isn't that a little weird?
<karhunguixi>(root privileges for both)
<mark_weaver>karhunguixi: is the LINUX_MODULE_DIRECTORY environment variable set in the shell where you try running 'modprobe' ?
<karhunguixi>yes, it's: /run/booted-system/kernel/lib/modules
<mark_weaver>(I don't think I've ever run modprobe -r; I didn't even know it had that option)
<mark_weaver>karhunguixi: maybe run it under 'strace' and see what's going wrong?
<karhunguixi>modprobe -r was the first i found on the Internet
<mark_weaver>removing modules is not something I often do.
<karhunguixi>(while searching for how to disable that beep sound, bell i think it is)
<karhunguixi>"sudo rmmod pcspkr" killed it at least
<mark_weaver>karhunguixi: "xset b off"
<karhunguixi>hm, i can't reinsert it with insmod
<karhunguixi>are you interested in the strace output from modprobe -r? If so, i can reboot and get it.
<mark_weaver>karhunguixi: if you want to look through the output and try to find the relevant error, that would be great. I don't really want to receive the raw strace output
<mark_weaver>(especially since there's a good chance the same error would happen to any of us)
<karhunguixi>i'll see what i can find
<karhunguixi>write(2, "sudo: effective uid is not 0, is"..., 152sudo: effective uid is not 0, is /run/setuid-programs/sudo on a file system with the 'nosuid' option set or an NFS file system without root privileges?
<karhunguixi>i used: strace sudo modprobe -r pcspkr
<mark_weaver>karhunguixi: better do sudo strace instead
<karhunguixi>it tries to open some /lib/modules stuff, but i don't even have /lib
<karhunguixi> /lib/modules/4.2.0-gnu/modules.dep.bin and /lib/modules/4.2.0-gnu/modules.alias.bin to be exact
***paulo_ is now known as Guest50374
<alezost>karhunguixi: I think the problem is your root user doesn't know about LINUX_MODULE_DIRECTORY; try "sudo -E ..."
<karhunguixi>alezost, spot on. Then it works!
<mark_weaver>alezost: good catch!
<mark_weaver>I don't use 'sudo', so I don't think about these things.
<mark_weaver>I guess sudo erases most environment variable settings, which would make sense
<karhunguixi>If i change to root user i see $LINUX_MODULE_DIRECTORY is empty. And "modprobe -r" does not succeed as root user for me.
<alezost>hm, "tests/substitute.scm" and "tests/store.scm" fail for me
<alezost>karhunguixi: (the same for me) I think it's because you don't source /etc/profile in your /root/.bashrc
<paroneayea>hello #guix!
<karhunguixi>regarding having LINUX_MODULE_DIRECTORY available with sudo, it looks to me like this is the way to do it. Adding to /etc/sudoers: Defaults env_keep += "LINUX_MODULE_DIRECTORY"
<karhunguixi>i don't think sudo will source /root/.bashrc. At least i can't verify that it does.
<bavier>rekado: cool MARS patch
<rekado>I think /dev/dsp is provided by some OSS kernel module, but I can only find sound/core/oss/snd-mixer-oss.ko, which is not the right module.
<bavier>I recall seeing warning messages from mplater about missing /dev/dsp
<bavier>but it must have some fallback
<rekado>yes, it does.
<bavier>exciting, I've wanted to try that game.
<bavier>I can wait for a solution to the sound issue ;)
<rekado>I'll investigate on Sunday.
<bavier>only comments I have on the patch: 1) is the "c" in the version before the commit hash present in other packages? and 2) the description doesn't seem as "impartial" as I think we're trying to be
<bavier>rekado: also, is there a reason not to use the 0.7.5 tarball at ?