IRC channel logs

<toothbrush0>I just noticed that the list of substitutes is always downloaded from http://hydra.gnu.org.. Is it bad that that's not https?

<mark_weaver>the substitutes are authenticated in another way

<mark_weaver>via digital signatures

<toothbrush0>mark_weaver: right. I can't come up with an attack off the top of my head indeed, so i guess it's okay.

<toothbrush0>I've been trained to be paranoid :p

<mark_weaver>that's a good thing :)

<toothbrush0>yeah it's not relaxing though :p

<mark_weaver>toothbrush0: btw, the longer-term plan is to distribute substitutes via gnunet, and it's the focus on a current google summer of code project. see https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2015-04/msg00562.html

<mark_weaver>s/on/of/

<paroneayea>huh

<paroneayea>I thought slib was in guix, but it looks like not

<paroneayea>maybe I should package it

<davexunit>good evening #guix

<mthl> good evening davexunit

<davexunit>guixsd really is fantastic. I have a pretty excellent setup on my laptop now.

<davexunit>reproducible OS, reproducible user profile. life is good. :)

<mthl>less fighting against the host system, i suppose :)

<davexunit>I can update my system without fear. :)

<davexunit>I also finally got my dotfiles under control: https://git.dthompson.us/dotfiles.git

<davexunit>and my Emacs init file no longer explodes when packages are missing.

<davexunit>brb, rebooting into updated system. :D

<davexunit>reproducible profiles are so nice https://git.dthompson.us/guixsd.git/blob/HEAD:/profile.scm

<davexunit>and using DMD to manage all of my user services is awesome: https://git.dthompson.us/dotfiles.git/blob/HEAD:/dotfiles/.dmd.d/init.scm

<zacts>hi

<zacts>so where may I find either an initd or systemd script to auto start guix-daemon?

<zacts>this is with guix on-top of debian jessie x86_64

<zacts>(so I don't manually have to start guix-daemon each boot)

<zacts>and also, this is 0.8.2 of guix

<davexunit>zacts: someone posted an init script on the mailing list very recently

<davexunit>I think for sysvinit

*davexunit looks

*zacts looks too

<davexunit>unrelated, but does anyone here recommend a particular password manager?

<mthl>zacts: for systemd you can look in nix package manager repo, in misc dir then you'll find something you can adapt for guix

<mthl>davexunit: I use keepassx, but i hate it ;-)

<zacts>ok

<davexunit>mthl: I'm considering just writing a script that uses gpg to encrypt a Scheme alist

<davexunit>and stashing it in a git repo.

<mthl>you are guile allin!

<mthl>:-)

<davexunit>just needs to support adding and removing from the alist and encrypting the result.

*davexunit goes down the rabbit hole

<davexunit>also, can anyone recommend a self-hostable file syncing application?

<davexunit>I was thinking about giving seafile a shot.

<davexunit>owncloud tries to do too many things for my liking.

<zacts>davexunit: did you see that the little prover (another little scheme book) is going to be released soon?

<zacts>from MIT Press

<paroneayea>oooh nice davexunit

<zacts>and yeah, nice davexunit

<zacts>:-D

<davexunit>zacts: yes I did. I almost went straight to the MIT Press store when I heard about it, but luckily someone pointed out that it won't be released until July.

<paroneayea>davexunit: I'm kinda jealous

<paroneayea>:D

<paroneayea>ha

<paroneayea>yeah

<paroneayea>I wonder if it'll use scheme or something else?

<paroneayea>it says it provides a minimalist system

<paroneayea>for theorem proving

<paroneayea>will that be like minikanren was in reasoned schemer?

<paroneayea>or

<paroneayea>?

<zacts>I think it uses scheme

<davexunit>all the other books use Scheme, so I'm sure it will be Scheme

<davexunit>given the authors

<zacts>let me look

<paroneayea>they did do a java book ;)

<davexunit>that's true, but with a different title theme.

<paroneayea>yes, a little rather than the little ;)

<zacts>although I don't know

<zacts>perhaps they'll use the Coq theorem proving software

<davexunit>paroneayea: heh, I suppose you're right. :

<davexunit>:)

<zacts>which there is another book btw which looks cool

<davexunit>I forgot that it used "little"

<zacts>let me find it

<davexunit>I hope they use Scheme.

<paroneayea>me too

<paroneayea>though I will get it anyway

<davexunit>I'll be far less interested if they don't.

<paroneayea>I would like to understand theorem proving

<zacts> http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/sf/current/toc.html

<zacts>^ this looks like a great book

<zacts>and it uses Coq as the teaching language / framework

<paroneayea>davexunit: neat to see you self-hosting yer git on your server. I'll look forward to the time where you have a guixsd profile for that so I can snarf things :)

<davexunit>paroneayea: some day my server will run guixsd, but for it's debian.

<davexunit>for now*

<davexunit>it's a simple enough gitolite + gitweb setup

*paroneayea nods

<davexunit>would be fairly easy to reproduce with guix

<davexunit>I (or someone else, please) need to write apache/nginx services and stuff

<zacts>As soon as GuixSD supports Full Disk Encryption, I will fully switch over

<zacts>(especially since I've discovered how it may be possible to run debian jessie or sid in a chroot on top of GuixSD)

<zacts>which would give me missing packages in guix, until I port them

***Guest67731 is now known as jchmrt

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<espectalll123>Hi!

<rekado>I'm packaging "withershins", "A simple cross-platform C++11 library for generating stack traces."

<rekado>where would this best go?

<rekado>also: cursynth has its own module. Should we not move it to audio.scm or music.scm instead?

<espectalll123>FINALLY - installed GuixSD 0.8.2!

<espectalll123>Yay ^_^

<espectalll123>…yet something's wrong

<espectalll123>OK so I get the following error

<espectalll123>ERROR: In procedure scm-error:

<espectalll123>ERROR: failed to resolve partition label "root"

<espectalll123>I don't get it…

<iyzsong>espectalll123: If you did't format your root partition with the 'root' label, you should modify the configuration.scm.

<espectalll123>Well, it *has* the root partition

<espectalll123>But I have changed it right now…

<espectalll123>so… bad configuration then?

<iyzsong>Yes, make sure you use the correct label (in my case `e2label /dev/sda1`)

<espectalll123>It's 100% working

<espectalll123>Got a working WindowMaker desktop :3

<espectalll123>And because this thing is worth being used…

<espectalll123>could anybody teach me a little about packaging?

<rekado>espectalll123: I recommend taking a look at the existing package definitions.

<rekado>most of it is self-explanatory.

<espectalll123>Have little experience with Debian packaging, so don't expect me to quickly get a build farm getting GNOME, KDE, E11 and Windows compiled altogether…

<espectalll123>But well

<espectalll123>Yeah, saw a bit - Scheme seems to do things easy

<civodul>Hello Guix!

<mthl>Hello civodul

<toothbrush0>civodul: hi!

<toothbrush0>pity davexunit has left, i wanted to heap praise on him with his reproducible profile &c. :p

<civodul>howdy toothbrush0!

<civodul>toothbrush0: davexunit may be back in a few hours, different timezone etc.

<civodul>but yeah, the declarative profile thing is really neat

<civodul>phant0mas: just replied regarding glibc-for-target; hope that will unblock the situation!

<toothbrush0>civodul: i missed the discussion on how to use them though, should i trawl the mailing lists?

<civodul>yes, or check the manual :-)

<toothbrush0>ah!

<toothbrush0>i just found the `guix package --apply` option, but that doesn't seem to be it

<civodul>look for --manifest

*toothbrush0 goes to the manual

<toothbrush0>ok

<toothbrush0>thanks!

<civodul>that's what it's called now

<civodul>yw!

<toothbrush0>this is also a good excuse for me to learn the info doc system :$

<civodul>alezost: do you know how to prevent Magit 1.4 from opening a new window to enter the commit log?

<civodul>i see it uses 'pop-to-buffer'

<alezost>civodul: do you mean when pressing "l l"?

<civodul>no, when pressing "C"

<civodul>to edit the new commit log

<alezost>ah, I vaguely recall this problem. It is fixed in a newer version (not sure if it's released). I use the latest Magit (from a git repo) and I don't have this problem here

<civodul>i guess it's a feature more than a bug, it's just that i don't like it

<civodul>i thought setting same-window-regexps would help, but it does not

<alezost>civodul: I use `same-window-buffer-names' for buffers I don't want to popup in another window

<civodul>alezost: yes but that didn't seem to work either

<alezost>civodul: no idea then; sorry :-(

<davexunit>interesting Nix related article on the HN front page: https://blog.wearewizards.io/my-experience-of-using-nixops-as-an-ansible-user

<davexunit>good food for thought for creating 'guix deploy'

<sirgazil>Clicking on GuixSD 0.8.2 x86_64 takes me to an empty directory. Does this happen to you as well? I don't understand that...

<sirgazil> http://www.gnu.org/software/guix/download/

<mark_weaver>sirgazil: do you mean the link that goes to ftp://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/guix/guixsd-usb-install-0.8.2.x86_64-linux.xz ?

<mark_weaver>I just clicked on it in GNU IceCat and it successfully downloaded the image

<sirgazil>Yes, that one. Funny. All the links work fine for me except that one.

<mark_weaver>when you hover over the link, does it show that URL?

<sirgazil>Yes. But if I click it, the URL ends with /

<sirgazil>Like:

<sirgazil>ftp://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/guix/guixsd-usb-install-0.8.2.x86_64-linux.xz/

<sirgazil>So I don't know what's adding that / at the end...

<davexunit>yay, finally have offlineimap running on my guixsd machine.

<mark_weaver>sirgazil: looking at the source code of that page, I see no trailing slash. what browser are you using?

<sirgazil>That's the weird thing. I'm using Iceweasel.

<mark_weaver>sirgazil: I'd guess that one of your extensions/plugins is doing something dumb

<daviid>sirgazil: Shit-Click [left] maybe?

<grothoffhome>Hi again! I'm still trying to install Guix natively on my system. Basic install seems to have worked, but no X. When I try the config with X from http://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/html_node/Using-the-Configuration-System.html#Using-the-Configuration-System, I get errors like 'gnu system nss' and 'use-service-modules desktop' and xfce/certs/xorg all not being found/known. Does anyone have a working config.scm with X

<grothoffhome>support I could use as a starting point?

<sirgazil>mark_weaver: it may be that.

<sirgazil>daviid: I don't have a Shit key here :D

<daviid>oh really?

<sirgazil>daviid: No it just opens another window and still appends / to the file name.

<mark_weaver>grothoffhome: yes, we provide an example configuration for a desktop machine. see section 6.2.1 (Using the Configuration System) in the manual.

<grothoffhome>Yes, I tried that one.

<grothoffhome>Didn't work.

<mark_weaver>what happened?

<grothoffhome>Tried a bunch of variations, all failed me.

<grothoffhome>"no code for module (gnu system nss)

<grothoffhome>Removed nss, then I get "no code for module desktop".

<grothoffhome>etc, etc. Until I end up with what I started with.

<grothoffhome>(as in, no X)

<mark_weaver>sirgazil: try disabling all your extensions/plugins, restarting the browser, and then trying again. if that works, you can enable the exstensions one by one to determine which is the culprit.

<grothoffhome>Note that this is after the first installation; when I tried to install with X from USB, it just died (OOM, swapping to USB or something terrible like that)

<mark_weaver>grothoffhome: if (gnu system nss) doesn't exist you've got a broken guix installation. tell me about the 'guix' you are using to run 'guix system ...' ?

<grothoffhome>So right now, I have a 'base' system, but when I try to reconfigure to add X, it hates me.

<grothoffhome>guix system - what? without args, I get a backtrace...

<grothoffhome>guix system -V gives 0.8.1

<mark_weaver>what command did you run on your OS configuration that failed?

<grothoffhome>guix system reconfigure /etc/config.scm

<mark_weaver>ah, so it might just be too old

<grothoffhome>Ok, so I downloaded an image, and by the time it was done compiling its too old :-(.

<grothoffhome>Ok, I guess I can do it again...

<mark_weaver>okay, so you should update your guix. 0.8.1 is too old.

<mark_weaver>"guix pull" or "git pull" followed by a rebuild of the source tree.

<mark_weaver>you can update in place, you don't need to start from scratch

<grothoffhome>Ok, will try that...

<grothoffhome>Maybe the installation handbook could mention the required version number somewhere ;-)

<sirgazil>mark_weaver: same problem with all plugins/extensions disabled.

<sirgazil>Anyways, at least is not a problem with the website. I'll try to find out what's going on.

<mark_weaver>sirgazil: is there a proxy between your web browser and the website?

<sirgazil>No

<mark_weaver>sirgazil: are you using https? maybe your ISP is putting a transparent proxy in there.

<sirgazil>mark_weaver: I don't understand. I get the same problem if I visit the website using http or https...

<mark_weaver>sirgazil: well then, I don't know!

<sirgazil>:)

<sirgazil>Thanks for your help anyway.

<mark_weaver>np!

<civodul>grothoffhome: the manual says "It is highly recommended to run ‘guix pull’ once before you run ‘guix system reconfigure’ for the first time", but i guess it's easily overlooked ;-)

<toothbrush0>davexunit: i like your profile.scm idea; one problem though, i guess it needs to be kept up to date manually -- does this mean you don't use guix-mode?

<davexunit>toothbrush0: I use it to browse and install one-off things.

<davexunit>and if I like my choice, I'll add it to my manifest.

<toothbrush0>right.

<toothbrush0>i guessed as much

<davexunit>would be cool for guix.el to support instantiating a manifest file

<toothbrush0>YES

*toothbrush0 gets excited

<davexunit>someone should write that ;)

<toothbrush0>although it'd need more intelligence than just clobbering the profile.scm with the new package added.

<toothbrush0>it should read it, and mark those packages in the guix-mode with some special flad

<toothbrush0>*flag

<toothbrush0>e.g. "in default profile" or something

<toothbrush0>because i could imagine someone wanting to deviate from their manifest.scm somehow..

<toothbrush0>hm..

<davexunit>toothbrush0: it wouldn't write the file, but it would have an interface to apply a manifest file.

<civodul>davexunit: you should mention it when alezost is on-line :-)

<davexunit>okay!

<toothbrush0>davexunit: wouldn't it be nice to be able to get it to update that file?

<toothbrush0>also, i see you got offlineimap working -- were there any special tricks?

<davexunit>toothbrush0: no, it "just works"

<davexunit>just took me awhile to migrate my config

<davexunit>I have a lot of email craziness at the moment

<davexunit>and I took a detour to try to write my own password manager in guile

<davexunit>so I didn't have to store passwords in my offlineimaprc

<davexunit>that part isn't done yet, but when it is I can finally version control the config.

<davexunit>which will make this all easier in the future.

<toothbrush0>you probably know the trick already, but my offlineimaprc calls a python script, which uses `gpg -d ` to grab passwords from authinfo.gpg

<toothbrush0>wouldn't that scratch your itch davexunit?

<davexunit>I didn't know about that

<toothbrush0>shall i send you an example by email?

<davexunit>toothbrush0: sure that would be great

<davexunit>davet@gnu.org

<toothbrush0>ok, just a sec

<toothbrush0>davexunit: you've got mail

<toothbrush0>In which instructions to configure one's email are sent via email.

<toothbrush0>haha

<rekado>I use gnome-keyring to store passwords; offlineimap uses a python script to fetch the password from there.

<toothbrush0>rekado: i used to do that, but i prefer this approach which doesn't rely on magical keyrings -- at least this is backed by a simple gpg file

<toothbrush0>it's a taste issue

<toothbrush0>rekado: also, gnome, *shudder*

<toothbrush0>j/k

<grothoffhome>civodul: guix install (with X) complete. mark_weaver thanks for your help with my dyslexia.

<civodul>grothoffhome: great, thanks for persevering!

<grothoffhome>Well, I needed _some_ decent OS on my main notebook ;-).

<mark_weaver>grothoffhome: woohoo!

<rekado>toothbrush0: I don't like magical keyrings either. It's a remnant from the days that I discovered that I'm already using keyrings (without noticing). I should try the "gpg -d" route instead. Seems simpler.

<toothbrush0>rekado: i went through the same process :) but this still feels like a hack to me..

<toothbrush0>notably i'm having a bunch of issues getting it to play nicely with guix

<toothbrush0>maybe on GuixSD this would be a nonissue

<davexunit>toothbrush0: thanks for the email

<toothbrush0>a little while ago the issue of password managers was discussed. i'm using lastpass, but really don't like that (since it's in the magical keyring category)... does anyone have another setup which preferably is backed by a simple .gpg file but allows easy pasting into web forms?

<toothbrush0>davexunit: no stress

<rekado>I don't paste into web forms. I just have a .gpg file with an org-mode table where I occasionally peek.

<davexunit>toothbrush0: that's sort of what I intended for my password manager

<rekado>I try to keep all passwords in muscle memory.

<davexunit>rekado: my concern is programmatic password retrieval

<toothbrush0>rekado: i find that would be infeasible

<davexunit>offlineimap being the key application I need that for

<grothoffhome>civodul: is there a reason why my ~/.bash_profile is 444 initially?

<toothbrush0>rekado: especially since i try to use long and mostly random-generated unique passwords for every website

<davexunit>grothoffhome: that was changed recently to 644

<rekado>toothbrush0: well, it works for me. And I've got different passwords for different things. I find it helps keeping my memory sharp.

<davexunit>because read-only for the owner was weird

<mark_weaver>grothoffhome: it's because the skeleton directory in the store has mode 444, and 'useradd' preserves those permission bits.

<rekado>toothbrush0: I use long and random(ish) passwords, too.

<toothbrush0>rekado: fair enough :) ambition is a good thing :)

<davexunit>toothbrush0: I intend to sync the gpg file using seafile or something

<grothoffhome>mark_weaver: Sounds like a bug in useradd...

<toothbrush0>yeah

<davexunit>to have it available on all of my computers

<toothbrush0>davexunit: i'm looking for a blog post that seemed promising

<toothbrush0>doing a similar thing with dmenu as the interface

<toothbrush0>davexunit: http://www.christoph-egger.org/weblog/entry/48/pass%20xdotool%20dmenu

<toothbrush0>it's actually rather basic

<toothbrush0>but i like the idea of using dmenu and xdotool

<davexunit>pass looks neat

<mark_weaver>grothoffhome: unfortunately it's a bug in the public API of useradd. 'useradd' stores the information on what the mode should be, in the actual filesystem mode bits in the skeleton (template) directory. this is fine for most distros, but at odds with the design of NixOS and Guix, which requires a read-only store.

<davexunit>despite all of this, I still feel sort of compelled to use my own custom tool...

<toothbrush0>hehe :)

<toothbrush0>all of this won't do *exactly* what you want of course ;)

<toothbrush0>i understand the feeling

<davexunit>I don't think pass's git integration is a good feature, for instance.

<davexunit>I dunno, I'm on the fence.

<toothbrush0>nah i just got to that bit of the page

<toothbrush0>that turned me off

<toothbrush0>my $HOME is already gitted

<toothbrush0>*gut?

<toothbrush0>:/

<toothbrush0>but my approach would be really simple

<toothbrush0>uhh i meant to say would be really similar

<toothbrush0>but simpler

<toothbrush0>like, a ghetto version of pass

<toothbrush0>and indeed, that's something one could do in guile :p

<davexunit>my approach is literally a GPG encrypted s-expression

<davexunit>with a few commands to add, remove, and show passwords

<grothoffhome>mark_weaver: sounds like a case for a distro-specific patch...

<mark_weaver>grothoffhome: here's the current workaround: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/commit/?id=356a62b8e650867d107773120c33531ea429f189

<mark_weaver>fixing 'useradd' would require inventing a new way to specify the file permissions. anyway, 'useradd' is incompatible with the notion in GuixSD that the users are specified declaratively in the OS configuration.

<alexshendi>Hi, one more noob question. How do I start/configure CUPS under GuixSD?

<xaxes`>alexshendi: hasn't the service started?

<mark_weaver>we don't have a cups service yet.

<davexunit>alexshendi: I think we might need a cups service definition?

<mark_weaver>I'm not a Guix noob, and I haven't figured out how to use cups either. but civodul reports that it works for him

<grothoffhome>mark_weaver: Hmm. If that workaround is there, was it not 'active' because I used the 8.1 installer?

<alexshendi>davexunit: Is there a guide to writing one? A service definition I mean?

<mark_weaver>grothoffhome: your home directory was presumably created by an activation script created by a pre-0.8.2 Guix.

<mark_weaver>your dot files are not managed by Guix.

<mark_weaver>they are initially created when your account is created, and then left to you.

<davexunit>alexshendi: the manual has some information about service definitions

<davexunit>it requires some Scheme knowledge

<alexshendi>Under OpenBSD I just started cupsd as root. and pointed a browser to localhost:631 ... Is the same possible under Guix?

<mark_weaver>alexshendi: before creating a service, you might try doing it manually, to figure out what needs to be done.

<mark_weaver>and to make sure that our cups package doesn't need modification.

<alexshendi>davexunit: Basic Scheme Knowledge (R5RS) is not a problem.

<davexunit>alexshendi: cool.

<davexunit>but yeah, I would do what mark_weaver suggests first.

<davexunit>learn what is needed, and then try to write a service definition

<grothoffhome>mark_weaver: yes, that explains it.

<davexunit>alexshendi: to test it, the easiest way is probably to use 'guix system vm' to quickly create a VM and see if the service works

<alexshendi>One more question: I did a user installation for cups. Maybe that is the reason for not working?

<mark_weaver>grothoffhome: you might want to look at the diffs between your current dot files and what's in /run/current-system/etc/skel

<mark_weaver>I vaguely recall that we've made some improvements to the dot files since 0.8.1.

<mark_weaver>ah, he left

<davexunit>mark_weaver: we did. my dotfiles didn't have that problem when I did a fresh install of 0.8.2

<mark_weaver>sneek: later tell grothoffhome: you might want to look at the diffs between your current dot files and what's in /run/current-system/etc/skel. IIRC, we've made some improvements there since 0.8.1.

<sneek>Got it.

<mark_weaver>davexunit: oh, did updating your dot files to 0.8.2 fix a particular problem for you? if so, what?

<davexunit>mark_weaver: the 444 issue

<davexunit>a fresh install created skeletons with 644 permissions

<mark_weaver>ah, right.

<toothbrush0>mark_weaver: cool, where can i learn more about the Sneeky Guile Channel Bot? :)

<mark_weaver>toothbrush0: talk to sneek in private message. say "help" there.

<mark_weaver>and "version"

<mark_weaver>it can remember a database of facts indexed by keyword, and deliver messages to people.

<mark_weaver>for example:

<mark_weaver>sneek: guildhall?

<sneek>Its been said that guildhall is https://github.com/ijp/guildhall/wiki/Getting-Started