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<davexunit>gotta go now.
<paroneayea>wooo, the guix "see source" feature is pretty cool
<civodul>in guix.el? yeah
<civodul>it's wonderful
<cmhobbs>bah, davexunit is gone
*cmhobbs installs guix.el
<rekado->I wonder how to use --with-source properly.
<rekado->I thought I could do "guix build -S hello" to get the sources, modify them, repack them and then install my modified version of "hello" with "guix build --with-source=my-hello-3.tar hello", but that doesn't seem to work.
<rekado->oh, I need the full path.
<rekado->hmm, still doesn't seem to work.
<mark_weaver>what happens?
<rekado->well, it builds, but not with my changes.
<rekado->I'm not sure it actually uses my modified tarball at all.
<civodul>rekado-: the file name has to match the package name
<rekado->ok, I'll try that.
<civodul>so hello-3.tar should work
<mark_weaver>civodul: why does it matter?
<civodul>to distinguish when several packages are passed on the command line
<civodul>see the manual :-)
<mark_weaver>ah, okay
<rekado->another question: how can I disable this automatic check for updates for GNU software? I will not be online when I demonstrate installing stuff and I don't want to wait for a timeout.
<civodul>if your network interfaces are down, nothing will happen
<civodul>there's no way to disable it at the moment
<civodul>just make sure to ifconfig whatever down
*civodul -> zZz
<civodul>good night/day!
<zacts>night and day you are the one, beneath the sky and under the sun
<zacts>- cole porter
<rekado->my mistake. GNU hello does not rebuild .gmo files from .po by default, so changing the .po files has no effect.
***joehillen is now known as joehillen|away
<paroneayea>hi ijp
<zacts>I'm not ijp
<paroneayea>zacts: ?
<zacts>woah, my irc client is all effed up
<zacts>debian emacs on beaglebone black
<zacts>it shows you private messaging me
<paroneayea>yeah I didn't :)
<zacts>and in the minibuffer area it says #guix
<zacts>let me try rebooting emacs
<rekado->would it be possible to avoid propagating inputs for Ruby and/or Python by symlinking the store items of the dependencies in the package output?
<rekado->only one path would have to be considered at runtime (the package output containing the symlinks), and the inputs would not need to be linked to the profile.
<rekado->we're already symlinking outputs across packages to get CUPS to find its filters which are provided by a separate package.
<rekado->granted, that's because CUPS does not check an environment variable to find filters but assumes they are located in one particular location.
<iyzsong>I think that should work. should good, and better than wrapper (for apps) IMO.
<iyzsong>sound good :-)
<civodul>Hello Guix!
***tschwing_ is now known as tschwinge
<iyzsong>civodul: hi, I just send the 'gtk-icon-themes' patch. it rebuilds the icon-theme.cache file for each theme when GTK+ is referenced by profile.
<iyzsong>I think the 'ensure-writable-directory' should move to (guix build utils), but it triger a rebuild of everything for me.
<civodul>iyzsong: ok, thanks!
<civodul>iyzsong: i think it'll wait until after 0.8.2
<civodul>better be safe than sorry ;-)
<iyzsong>no problems
<civodul>iyzsong: BTW, would you like to post one or two screenshots? :-)
<iyzsong>civodul: sure, let me shot one.
<civodul>something in the spirit of would be perfect
<iyzsong>civodul: replied to the mail :-)
<civodul>iyzsong: thanks!
<civodul>now to get the top-level .symlinks to work, bah
<davexunit>that's nice!
<civodul>aah, here we go
<davexunit>the images aren't loading, but this is looking greeeaaaat
<rekado->civodul: here's another screenshot:
<davexunit>I really need to get xfce running on my guixsd machine
<davexunit>I'm still just using ratpoison :)
<Phlogistique>great new site!
<rekado->yeah, it's pretty!
<davexunit>this is really exciting
<Phlogistique>two nitpicks: - no mention of Nix - is garbage collection a "feature"?
<civodul>rekado-: nice! could you update it to the new web site?
*civodul has to go afk for a few hours
<rekado->I don't have my keys on this disk yet (and no easy way to copy them); I don't think I'll be able to add the screenie myself.
<civodul>ok, np :-)
<davexunit>the current screenshots 404, but that's okay since we will replace them real soon.
<rekado->davexunit: they work for me now
*rekado- goes back to working on the slides for the talk
<davexunit>rekado-: the thumbnails show up, but if you click them it will bring you to a 404 page
<rekado->oh, right.
*davexunit fixes a couple typos on the contribute page
<bavier>wow, I like the new website!
<bavier>typo on the download page: "As of version , the..."
<davexunit>what version should that be?
<davexunit>I can't remember :)
<bavier>0.7 was the first USB install capable release
<bavier>there's also a trailing "" at the end of the 4 freedoms on the About page.
<bavier>text missing? or stray text?
<davexunit>yeah, I noticed that, too.
<bavier>and the screenshots 404 when clicked on
<davexunit>already known.
<davexunit>those screenshots will get replaced really soon, anyhow.
<bavier>ok, great ;)
<davexunit>I don't see a stray in the source code
<davexunit>not sure why that's there.
<davexunit>bavier: fixed the guix version thing. the next time somebody deploys the site it will be visible.
<davexunit>too bad our deployment has to be through CVS
<bavier>davexunit: cool, thanks
<davexunit>bavier: the version info was there, but someone forgot to unquote an expression :)
<Sleep_Walker>hey! nice new website!
<Sleep_Walker>screenshots -> 404
<davexunit>Sleep_Walker: yup, we know.
<davexunit>they're being replaced anyway.
<Sleep_Walker>ah, OK
<Sleep_Walker>well, I hope so :)
<davexunit>consider it a work in progress
<davexunit>it's not 100% rolled out yet
<Sleep_Walker>WindowMaker is not appealing for decade :D
<davexunit>so don't advertise it until it's ready :)
<davexunit>I sent an email to the GNU webmasters to propose that GNU maintainers are given rsync access to /software/<project-name>
<davexunit>so that people like us aren't forced to deploy our site by generating it, then checking it into a CVS repo for no good reason
<Sleep_Walker>make sense :)
<davexunit>my feeling is that it will be rejected
<davexunit>but we'll see
<rekado->finished/abandoned my slides for tomorrow. 20 minutes is really short, so I'm only focusing on functional package management principles and how this makes things easier for users.
<rekado->obviously doesn't include the demos.
<davexunit>rekado-: perhaps just use a few slides?
<rekado->it's just a few slides: motivation, what is a function, how this maps to packages, properties gained for free, visualisations of build process and profiles.
<davexunit>rekado-: the introductory slides with partial solutions is useful, I feel.
<rekado->the rest is shown in the demo and I'd like to leave a few minutes for Q&A.
<davexunit>rekado-: hahaha "giving up"
<davexunit>please keep that list. it's too good.
<davexunit>rekado-: best of luck with your presentation. I gave a quick 20 minute talk about a year ago about guix at a hackathon. I'd like to do that again.
<rekado->davexunit: thanks!
<cmhobbs_>davexunit, re: your comment about working with nonfree software yesterday, i don't look down on you and follow a same path. it's unfortunate but it's life. we all dream of the libre utopia but we have to work in the real world
<rekado->I'm very fortunate to work on free software for a living. (Some exceptions apply for software licensed for non-commercial use.)
<cmhobbs_>i've managed to get my toolset (os included), most of my hardware, and my personal environment to 100% free software. i've also managed to get previous clients/employers to release their code as free software
<cmhobbs_>currently trying to get the current employer to release theirs and i'm working on a side project that's also libre
<cmhobbs_>if i start contracting again, i believe i'll try to find strictly libre gigs
<cmhobbs_>though, i'll probably have to expand my skillset to do that
<cmhobbs_>also, took the channel off topic, sorry
<bavier>cmhobbs_: congratulations on your employers releasing their software
<rekado->oh, my talk has been rescheduled. It's now supposed to take place at 2:20pm, not at 3:15pm. Could someone please update the news item on the guix website?
<davexunit>rekado-: I thiiiink I can do that...
<cmhobbs_>bavier, thanks! those are older battles. i'm still fighting that fight with my current employer
<cmhobbs_>holy cow, the guix website got an overhaul
<davexunit>cmhobbs_: yup! just happened this morning. not 100% done yet.
<cmhobbs_>looks really great
<cmhobbs_>heavier than the last one but i like it
<cmhobbs_>you using a cms?
<davexunit>cmhobbs_: no, static site.
<davexunit>written in guile!
<taylanub><wgreenhouse> taylanub: another virtue of that guixsd logo is that it can be expressed as ~V~
<cmhobbs_>davexunit, awesome
<cmhobbs_>where'd the logo come from?
<cmhobbs_>also, with "guixsd", is the plan to move away from using guix as a package manager on non-guix distributions?
<cmhobbs_>clicking screenshots yields a 404
<davexunit>cmhobbs_: yeah we know.
<davexunit>not 100% done
<davexunit>civodul did a bunch and that had to leave.
<cmhobbs_>just noticed it
<davexunit>everyone has :)
<davexunit>cmhobbs_: to answer your questions... the logo came from sirgazil, the same person that created this new website
<davexunit>and GuixSD has always been part of the project, but it doesn't have any impact on using Guix on top of another distro.
<rekado->cmhobbs_: GuixSD is a logical extension from the packaging principles followed by Guix. A package in Guix must have all direct and indirect dependencies in the store; this includes the C library, the foundation of any system.
<cmhobbs_>has non-free software in guix been discussed yet? what if someone packages something non-free?
<davexunit>cmhobbs_: we just don't include it in the distro
<rekado->cmhobbs_: the package recipes would be derived works from the GPLv3+ licensed Guix code. This does not apply to the non-free sources, though.
<rekado->as a FSDG-abiding system, we obviously won't include any packages that recommend or enable non-free software.
<rekado->any packages that you don't indend to publish can be used with Guix by setting GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH to wherever your private package module is located.
<rekado->(this applies to non-free and free software packages alike)
<davexunit>yeah, I have a couple of packages that I keep in my own little git repo
<paroneayea>hey mark_weaver
<paroneayea>you suggested using substitute-keyword-arguments, but if I have to both make use of and extend the #:phases section, what's the recommended way to pull that out?
<paroneayea>iirc there's no nice way to fetch something from a keyword list
<paroneayea>as in, something predefined in guile
<paroneayea>oh right
<bavier>paroneayea: substitute-keyword-arguments does that for you alread
<paroneayea>ohhhh I see
<paroneayea>it's bound to the previous value
<paroneayea>thanks bavier
<rekado->the fan on my Thinkpad X200s runs constantly when on GuixSD.
<mark_weaver>rekado-: FWIW, I don't see anything like that on my Libreboot X200 running GuixSD.
<mark_weaver>anyway, I have to go afk
<rekado->maybe related to the selected cpu governor or boost or similar
<rekado->no, it's using "ondemand".
<jackdaniel>why arm isn't supported on arm?
<bavier>jackdaniel: we have some developers who are actively working on GuixSD on ARM.
<jackdaniel>yes, I'm just wondering what arm support lacks right now
<jackdaniel>sorry, not arm supported on arm, GuixSD of course
<jackdaniel>im bit tired apparently
<jackdaniel>or to put it the other way - what puts GuixSD aside Guix, if I'll put Guix on system with busybox
<bavier>jackdaniel: Guix can be used as a package manager on top of other distributions
<bavier>without imposing much
<paroneayea>guess it's time to try the daemon offload feature
<zacts>hello guix
<paroneayea>namely because my laptop on its dock will totally overheat if I try compiling things, and I need to sit at my desk setup to get things done :)
<paroneayea>hm maybe that won't work if I refuse to make install guix ;)
<paroneayea>guess I'll have to verify that my adjusted guile-emacs package fully compiles later.
<aurelien>hi #guix
<aurelien>just to say someone push his works here
<bavier>hello aurelien, thanks for the link!
<aurelien>phant0mas: oh its you
<zacts>oh wow
<zacts>cool about guix on hurd
<mthl>paroneayea: I was following the instructions for installing guix without 'make install' on your blog, and I think it will be more adequate if you indicate the instruction "sudo ./pre-inst-env guix archive --authorize <" before "./pre-inst-env guix package -i hello" :-)
<paroneayea>mthl: oh, good point
<mthl>paroneayea: It can be a good introduction to guix, to let the builders compile linux-libre :-)
<paroneayea>mthl: ;)
<paroneayea>mthl: I updated my blogpost, thanks!
<paroneayea>I'm glad to see that quite a few people seem to have found this helpful so far
<mthl>since it seems not recommended to 'make install' every time you pull from git, I was pretty unhappy with the 'guix pull' + build in current git repo.
<mthl>so your article serves my needs
<paroneayea>yeah I think that route is probably best for people who are hacking guix
<phant0mas>hey aurelien yep it's me :)
<phant0mas>forgot to anounce it on the list :P
<aurelien>cool idea :)
<phant0mas>I checked all the alternatives I was told at the ml, and bullcodes seems cool :-)
<vmlinuz88>guix pull fails: "failed to set up the build environment for '/gnu/store/<alphanumeric>-module-import.drv'
*jackdaniel makes his first attempt to instal GuixSD, fingers crossed
<vmlinuz88>paroneayea mark_weaver Any ideas why this might be happening? This is from the latext version of guix, as of 2 hours ago. I just finished ./bootstrap && ./configure && make
<mthl>vmlinuz88: with "./pre-inst-env guix pull" ?
<vmlinuz88>mthl Yes
<paroneayea>vmlinuz88: I don't use guix pull, so I don't know...
<vmlinuz88>I'll try to reinstall it by pull it from git and running bootstrap-configure-make again.
<paroneayea>vmlinuz88: how about just blasting your current profile? :)
<vmlinuz88>I'm not sure if it has anything to do with my profile. the problem seems to be with the /gnu/store
<vmlinuz88>Yeah, I can try that
<mthl>vmlinuz88: Guix was already installed when you "bootstrap-configure-make..." ?
<vmlinuz88>mthl, no, I cloned the repo as per the instructions on paroneayea's blog, then ./bootstrap && ./configure && make
<vmlinuz88>then I followed the rest of the instructions. Now I try to run guix pull, and I get that error.
<mthl>vmlinuz88: I'm in the same situation that you described but i'm not having that problem :/
<vmlinuz88>by the way, paraneayea, I'm on Ubuntu now, and when I ran ./bootstrap && ./configure && make, gcc complains about not having libsqlite3-dev, autopoint, graphviz (for the dot command), texinfo, and libbz2-dev. You may want to add those packages to your blog post as dependencies for guix.
<mthl>yeah he forgot some dependencies
<vmlinuz88>on some distributions, such as Fedora, autopoint is included in the gettext package
<mthl>vmlinuz88: by the way, if you don't "make-install" I think "guix pull" is not required, before "guix package -u"
<mthl>because of the "./pre-inst-env ..." alias
<paroneayea>hm :\\
<paroneayea>mark_weaver: bavier: around?
<paroneayea>so close to having a working guile-emacs package
<paroneayea>alas, tests still get run despite my hopes to the contrary here!
<zacts>cool paroneayea
<paroneayea>it worked before I attempted the switch to
<paroneayea>I don't know how to do the #:tests? #f
<paroneayea>unless I should have quoted the #f or something
<paroneayea>ohhhh I think I see.
<bipt>paroneayea, looking at the definition of substitute-keyword-arguments in guix/utils.scm, it looks like the substitutions are only used if the keywords were present in the original list
<paroneayea>bipt: yeah
<paroneayea>I just adjusted like so:
<paroneayea>bipt: let's see if this works...
<paroneayea>er, parallel-builds? apparently is parallel-build
<paroneayea>though I think the docs might say otherwise
<paroneayea>kind of frustrating that I had to wait for guile to fully compile two times in a row to find out that tests were still enabled both times, gah ;)
<rekado->I'm looking forward to play with guile-emacs!
*davexunit tries to update his config to use xfce
<rekado->I have nothing in my config relating to xfce
<rekado->I just installed the "xfce" meta-package and created a .xsession file that starts xfce when I log in.
<rekado->(maybe I'm doing something wrong)
<davexunit>no, that's valid.
<rekado->If you do something cool with your config, please post it. Mine is embarassingly plain.
<davexunit>rekado-: will do, the addition of %desktop-services has made my config more plain :)
<paroneayea>davexunit: are you using guixsd on your work machine?
<davexunit>paroneayea: no, at home.
<paroneayea>er, I meant to say
<paroneayea>workstation :)
<paroneayea>which can be at home :)
<davexunit>then yes :)
<davexunit>I have a desktop at home that I run guixsd on
<davexunit>and soon my laptop will also run it
<paroneayea>I should switch my desktop over to guixd too
<davexunit>using it motivates you to fix the things that need to be fixed :)
<paroneayea>I don't run much on it other than backups and etc right now
<paroneayea>yeah nothing like dogfooding
<paroneayea>davexunit: speaking of
<paroneayea>I think I've decided that I'm going to do guixsd for mediagoblin's premium hosting
<paroneayea>so that'll be some REAL dogfooding right there.
<davexunit>oh? wow!
<paroneayea>and here's why:
<davexunit>into the python packaging salt mines!
<paroneayea>I'm tired of being paralyzed by the fear of doing system upgrades
<paroneayea>davexunit: tbh I'm probably going to stub out some of the js stuff in the "fuck it I'm out" style of using the precompiled jquery, etc
<paroneayea>for now
<davexunit>that's fine
<davexunit>totally fine
<davexunit>that's a bigger, long-term battle
<paroneayea>maybe I'll create a wtfjs package repo
<paroneayea>davexunit: SO
<paroneayea>that means I need to work with you on guixsd.
<paroneayea>it also means I'm putting opstimal to the side ;)
<paroneayea>on guixops
<davexunit>paroneayea: let's do it!
*davexunit high fives paroneayea
<paroneayea> *
<paroneayea> o/ \\o_ POWER HI-5
<paroneayea>/| |
<paroneayea>/ \\ / \\
<davexunit>I'm taking a trip to delaware on saturday. I should have a decent amount of hacking time while I'm there, so I'll try to make sure that I push a wip-deploy branch for others to hack on
<davexunit>this is exciting
<paroneayea>davexunit: awesome
<paroneayea>davexunit: next, I need to find someplace to do test deploys to
<paroneayea>if I can do test deploys to rackspace cloud or something else using openstack
<paroneayea>I'd prefer that
<davexunit>openstack would be good, or anything that speaks a free standard
<davexunit>free protocol*
<paroneayea>but hey
<paroneayea>here we go.
<davexunit>as you know, right now I'm just spawning temporary local vms.
*paroneayea nods
<paroneayea>temporary vms are good too
<davexunit>the code was already written for me :)
<davexunit>we've gotta think about networking and state management.
<davexunit>paroneayea: in that nix doc I see stuff like "EC2_ACCESS_KEY"
<davexunit>does this mean that openstack has some compatibility with amazon ec2?
<paroneayea>davexunit: looks like it
<davexunit>that means we can write a generic EC2 adapter
<davexunit>and it's possible to use it on self-hosted infrastructure
<davexunit>so not only amazon, but OpenStack and Eucalyptus private clouds.
<paroneayea>davexunit: though we should call it an openstack adapter ;)
<davexunit>yeah, something like that
<paroneayea>or a "common cloud adapter"
<paroneayea>I really don't want to promote amazon's evil stuff
<davexunit>welll.... I'd save that name for something that speaks the real openstack API
<davexunit>me either
<davexunit>but I knew that at least Eucalyptus supported the EC2 API
<davexunit>and Eucalyptus has a free software edition
<davexunit>so it's possible to use an EC2 compatible service in freedom.
<paroneayea>davexunit: woo, feeling optimistic
<davexunit>we can totally do this
<davexunit>guix system: error: symlink: Permission denied: "/var/guix/profiles/system-18-link"
<paroneayea>davexunit: ?
<davexunit>my reconfigure went poorly
<paroneayea>"You have reconfigured poorly"
<civodul>davexunit: +sudo?
<paroneayea>sudo make me a symlink
<davexunit>oh wait I'm just dumb
<davexunit>civodul: yeah.........
*davexunit shyly sneaks out of room
<paroneayea>slyly? :)
<davexunit>I pitched Sly to YCombinator and Sam Altman told me "I don't like foxes" :(
<davexunit>HOLY CRAP the new slim login screen looks AWESOME
<civodul>isn't it? :-)
<paroneayea>haha are you serious davexunit re: ycombinator
<davexunit>and the reconfigure worked super smoothly
<davexunit>paroneayea: hehe no
<paroneayea>damn, that would have been such a good story
<davexunit>but I like the idea of pitching Sly like a startup
<paroneayea>davexunit: openhatch was originally a startup
<paroneayea>VC money
<paroneayea>then a nonprofit!
<davexunit>"how will me monetize you ask? two words: plush foxes"
<davexunit>paroneayea: oh that's interesting. didn't know that.
<paroneayea>davexunit: speaking of cute logos, you might like this mashup, but not for the mashup reasons :)
<davexunit>it's pretty cute
<davexunit>I may not like Docker, but they have one of the all-time cutest logos
<davexunit>hmm, how do I use the bash completion stuff again?
*davexunit searches through docs and email
<paroneayea>davexunit: I agree re: docker logo
<paroneayea>all their messaging is really well done
<paroneayea>and the whole analogy to shipping containers
<paroneayea>so well executed, no wonder people fall head over heels at first look!
<davexunit>how does one source the entire bash_completion.d directory?
<davexunit>I guess a glob will do it..
<davexunit>hmmm xfce didn't start...
<davexunit>aha, my xsession file
<davexunit>now to figure out how to theme this thing...
<davexunit>I'll save that for another time