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<angelic_sedition>guix packages aren't backwards compatible with nix are they?
<mark_weaver>angelic_sedition: what does "backwards compatible" mean in this context?
<angelic_sedition>mark_weaver: that nix can use guix packages
<angelic_sedition>i know the reverse is true
<mark_weaver>guix uses a slightly modified nix-daemon. you can build guix on top of a nix system and then have it use the nix daemon.
<mark_weaver>however, it should be noted that any Guix package installed on a Nix system will use all of the Guix libraries and compilers. they will essentially be two entire systems living side by side within the same store.
<angelic_sedition>okay thank you
<mark_weaver>also, since all of our binary packages are built with the assumption that the store is located in /gnu/store, if your store is in /nix/store, you'll have to build everything from source code, starting with bootstrapping the entire system from minimal bootstrap tarballs
<mark_weaver>you're welcome...
<angelic_sedition>I'm getting a no such file error when trying to download ... is there another location I can get an installation image from?
<angelic_sedition>nevermind, I found it; the link on the installation page is wrong though..
<mark_weaver>I agree that it's confusing, but if you read the actual text, that is not supposed to be a URL but rather a template of a URL where SYSTEM is replaced by x86_64-linux or i686-linux. however, some software is being clever and turning it into a link automatically.
<mark_weaver>the actual texinfo reads: An installation image for USB sticks can be downloaded from @code{{VERSION}.@var{system}.xz}, where @var{system} is one of: [...
<mark_weaver>whereas texinfo has a different construct for URLs, starting with @url{...}
<mark_weaver>so the info readers/converters are being too clever by half
<angelic_sedition>ah my bad then
<mark_weaver>well, not really, you make a good point, and you're not the first to report the problem :)
<mark_weaver>we should probably just give in and rewrite the text to include separate URLs for each platform...
<angelic_sedition>usually I expect brackets of some type around something that needs to be changed; I didn't look closely enough
***mbuf_ is now known as mbuf
***yang_ is now known as ang
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<Rastus_Vernon>On, some GNOME software is not marked as part of GNU. Isn't GNOME part of the GNU project?
<kete>Rastus_Vernon, yes, but hasn't a good deal of GNOME lost its roots?
<Rastus_Vernon>That's possible.
<mark_weaver>Rastus_Vernon: good question! in a weak sense, it is true that GNOME is technically considered part of the GNU project.
<mark_weaver>however, they are not GNU packages in any way that is relevant to Guix's internal workings.
<mark_weaver>e.g. there are various databases of packages that GNU keeps, and the GNOME packages are not in that database
<mark_weaver>for example Guix can automatically upgrade GNU packages to the latest version (usually works) with the "guix refresh -u" command, but that won't work with GNOME packages
<mark_weaver>and we can grab descriptions of GNU packages, but that doesn't work for GNOME packages.
<mark_weaver>and I'd go further and say that philosophically, GNOME developers do not really consider themselves part of the GNU project. it's almost just a vestigial fact that is mostly ignored.
<rekado>I find the last part rather sad.
<rekado>civodul, davexunit: thanks for your comments and thank you davexunit for submitting the article to HN!
<paroneayea>I'd like to use guix more for my workflow of things, though I'm not sure if I need to figure out how to get M-x guix-all-available-packages working again to do so
<paroneayea>maybe using geiser with connect-to-guile is sufficient?
<alezost>paroneayea: do you mean "M-x guix-all-available-packages" doesn't work?
<paroneayea>alezost: it does not in my "installed in debian but not make installed to debian" setup :)
<paroneayea>maybe I should give up and just "sudo make install" to debian
<paroneayea>if: Error in evaluating guile expression: Unknown meta command: geiser-eval
<paroneayea>I know I dealt with this before
<paroneayea>and fixed it
<paroneayea>why I'm hitting it again, I don't know.
<paroneayea>davexunit: also, relatedly, this is why I brought up my guix packaging workflow above, is my interest in trying to get a minikranen package in guix :)
<paroneayea>davexunit: what workflow do you usually use while working on packages? do you hack guile live with geiser or just write out and see if "guix package" runs ok?
<paroneayea>if you don't mind me asking
<alezost>paroneayea: I suppose that's an emacs error, not guile one. Could you try again after "M-x toggle-debug-on-error"
<davexunit>paroneayea: I should adopt a REPL-based workflow, but alas I just edit the file, save, and run 'make && guix build foo'
<paroneayea>davexunit: aha :)
<paroneayea>also I did a "guix pull" and I wonder if that broke my ability to hack from guix git
<davexunit>hmmm not sure
<paroneayea>I'm not sure how I'd really roll back that state
*paroneayea tries guix package --roll-back
<davexunit>that won't have an effect
<davexunit>but it would be nice if it did
<paroneayea>it's hard to have a debian setup where you don't install guix with make install and have the things all work :\\
<davexunit>I used the binary tarball for a server of mine and it worked like a charm
<paroneayea>I've been hoping to hack guix itself though
<davexunit>then you probably don't want to use 'guix pull' in the first place
<paroneayea>yeah I shouldn't have done it
<paroneayea>now I don't know how to undo it!
<davexunit>you can just delete the modules
<paroneayea>oh, it's just per-user anyway?
<paroneayea>oh easy then :)
<paroneayea>is there a way in guile to see what file a package was imported from?
<paroneayea>like import foo; foo.__file__ in python
<davexunit>,d foo
<davexunit>should print out some source info
<paroneayea>great, thx davexunit
<davexunit>nvm, need something different
<davexunit>there's some procedure that tells you
<paroneayea>aha, I think I got the guix stuff working in emacs now.
<davexunit>just not sure what it is exactly, but geiser obviously uses it
<davexunit>otherwise M-. wouldn't work
<paroneayea>ok, nice
<paroneayea>guix-all-available-packages works again
<paroneayea>oh, nice, I didn't realize that C-c C-z jumps to the guix repl there
<davexunit>ooh cool
<paroneayea>maybe I should try making a package of ijp's minikranen for guix and submit to the guix ML?
<davexunit>paroneayea: go for it!
<davexunit>you'll probably need to use the trivial-build-system and write the code to compile the scheme files and install them in the right place
<paroneayea>davexunit: ok!
<paroneayea>are there other packages you recommend I look at as examples?
<davexunit>there might already be a similar thing in the guile module, so check that out first
<davexunit>if not, the paredit in emacs.scm could be helpful
<paroneayea>thanks davexunit
<davexunit>paroneayea: a modified gnu-build-system might be better actually, since it has handy phases like 'unpack' to deal with extracting the tarball and stuff.
<paroneayea>davexunit: there's no ./configure && make type stuff in so I wonder how that affects things.
<paroneayea>it does have a pkg-list.scm
*paroneayea doesn't know! but will look
<paroneayea>ijp: also, comments on that welcome.
<paroneayea>oh neat
<paroneayea>there's a #minikanren
<civodul>paroneayea: bonus point if you write "guix import guildhall" to convert those pkg-list.scm files :-)
<paroneayea>civodul: haha :)
<paroneayea>civodul: that would be cool
<paroneayea>*another yak lines up in front of paroneayea's barber shop*
<civodul>or there could be a guildhall-build-system(?) that would build packages that have a pkg-list.scm
<civodul>rekado: maybe we should submit a news entry pointing to your article at ?
<paroneayea>surprised to see how many RDF packages there are in Guix
<ijp>paroneayea: a makefile for that would essentially copy four files
<mark_weaver>bavier: any luck getting hydra to run?