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2015-03-29.log
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<{0}grant>Do we not have a guile-wm session for slim, or am I missing something? <taylanub>{0}grant: does guile-wm have any sane defaults? can it replace ratpoison yet? :-) <{0}grant>taylanub: It hasn't been touched in sometime, but if your windowing needs is filled decently by Ratpoision -- then Guile-wm's tiling module is decently compatible to this mode of handling. <{0}grant>The big thing I'm aware that it is missing, last I checked, was multi-keychord support. Like not being able to support something like "C-t n" but just "C-n". <{0}grant>But for basic navigation, to be comperable to Ratpoison ... it's probably not really "needed". Though obviously, a wanted thing, eventually to support. <{0}grant>I'm generally more interested a potiental Guile wayland compositor at this point though, though we probably have some way to go on that front. I'm not even aware of a general "guile-wayland" were "guile-xcb" seems, at least from my very limited knowledge ... "somewhat mature". <rekado>I just upgraded my GuixSD test machine (a T60) via "guix pull && guix package -u". <rekado>with the upgrade from xfce 4.10 to 4.12 startxfce4 broke. <rekado>I suppose I can just install xinit, but it seems to me that this should not happen after an upgrade. <rekado>should xinit be an input to xfce? <{0}grant->rekado: If lack thereof is preventing the initialization of such a thing, I would think so. <Sleep_Walker>on the other hand - check, whether it is xfce the package, which is complaining <rekado>when I run "startxfce4" I get this error: /gnu/store/...-xfce4-session-4.12.0/bin/startxfce4: line 118: exec: xinit: not found <rekado>startxfce4 is part of the xfce4-session output. <taylanub>{0}grant: it seems things like 'C-t n' are supported; in fact I can't find out from the documentation how to best bind just 'C-n' (I use stuff like s-n, i.e. using the <super> key) <oblo>i'm new in guix.. i launched "guix package -i lynx" and it seems is downloading the toolchain <taylanub>oblo: did you authorize Hydra for substitutes? <taylanub>guix archive --authorize < $guix_source_dir/hydra.gnu.org.pub <taylanub>(or in $prefix/share/guix/hydra.gnu.org.pub after installation) <oblo>i'm using lfs and i want see if it works <rekado>hmm, there's even more broken with xfce. <rekado>both xfce and xfce-session provide bin/startxfce4 <rekado>the next error is thrown by xinit: error while loading shared libraries: /gnu/store/...-libxdmcp-1.1.1/lib/libXdmcp.so.6: file too short. <{0}grant>taylanub: Maybe it was to the extent of say "C-t C-x z" or similar, that I'm recalling support missing. <{[]}grant>Would it be appropriate to package a binary distribution such as with the case of "git-annex-bin" ? <davexunit>{[]}grant: no, it must be built from the complete corresponding source code. <{[]}grant>Well, I welcome to whomever wants to drive into that dependency hell. :^P <davexunit>we almost have a Haskell build system into master. <{[]}grant>Okay, regarding a general build-system donation -- is there any reason to jump the ship off Fedora on the given box, and go full GSD? <davexunit>but I don't administer the build farm, so I dunno :) <{[]}grant>The eventual goal is to be full GSD, but atm, I have a very small-footprint need for personal hosting/services that such things are not currently available in Guix nor do I think will be easy enough to add trivially to make that kind of an extreme switch all of a sudden. <{[]}grant>I have the min-build requirements though, as per the "donation" page. <{[]}grant>~4gb and ~1tb for a dedicated root partition. <mark_weaver>rekado: xfce is a meta package containing a bunch of other xfce-related packages. the idea is that you install 'xfce' *instead of* any of its inputs. <mark_weaver>also, on GuixSD, if you install it in your system-wide profile, then SLIM will automatically support it as a session option. *{[]}grant might just jump ship on his main-box again, as well as said home-server/buildbox for/towards GSD. I have a spare box I can keep Parabola on if I need to be somefactor of "practical". :^P <rekado>mark_weaver: I understand. I installed xfce 4.10.0 (with "guix package -i xfce") some time before Feb 23 and it worked fine. Since the upgrade, however, I can no longer start Xfce. <rekado>BTW: this *is* on GuixSD, not Guix on top of Fedora. <{[]}grant>Okay, I"m going to think/nap on this. Peace peeps. o/ <mark_weaver>{[]}grant: fwiw, I don't think we should have a build box that is also used as a personal server. <mark_weaver>because it would be too vulnerable to remote exploits, and also it would make your personal server perform very badly <rekado>another thing I noticed since the update: on VT 1 I get periodic X er ors about DBus. <{[]}grant>mark_weaver: Last thing I say, before monitor is going off. That's just how I have such a system arranged now; I can probably allocate everything I do on that box for a personal server, I can do on the box I am at right now -- I'm not married to such a thing, and if nod a /massive/ headache and if such a thing is viewed poorely (as you've suggested) I'll move it to be fully dedicated. <mark_weaver>rekado: the thing is, I think most/all of the current users of XFCE on Guix are launching it from SLIM, not from a text terminal. <rekado>(EE) dbus-core: error connecting to system bus: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoServer (Failed to connect to socket /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: Connection refused) <rekado>mark_weaver: back when I installed it first there was no way to launch XFCE from SLIM other than through ~/.xsession. <rekado>My ~/.xsession does "exec startxfce4" and that's not working. <rekado>I'm being thrown back to the login screen of SLIM. <mark_weaver>does .xsession have "#!/bin/sh" as its first line? is it executable? (chmod +x) <rekado>yes. As I said, it worked before. <rekado>judging from the error message I would suspect it is not. (But I haven't purposefully disabled it or anything.) Do I need to run guix system reconfigure or something like that? <mark_weaver>because we don't currently clean up /var/run at boot time, after a crash some daemons will sometimes not start up because of stale pid files left around <mark_weaver>the proper fix for this is a bit involved, so I haven't yet done it, but I'm currently running with a temporary patch to do the needed cleanup on my system. <mark_weaver>(it assumes that /tmp and /var/run are on the root partition) <rekado>Yes, I remember. I'll check this next time I boot the laptop. <mark_weaver>"deco status dmd" will tell you what services are not running. <rekado>I should note, though, that I didn't experience any crash. I just updated and rebooted. <mark_weaver>rekado: if you run that command, what does it list after "Stopped: " ? <rekado>the machine is turned off now as I don't have time to work on this at the moment. But I'll try to find a few minutes in a couple of hoours. <oblo>the "hydra" way is working and i installed my first package.. lynx <oblo>but i need to write "/home/oblo/.guix-profile/bin/lynx" to use it.. only "lynx" is not working <taylanub>you can add ~/.guix-profile/bin (and sbin) to your $PATH environment variable. how is it not working? <oblo>thx taylanub you're kind <oblo>i'm using lfs and i try to add guix.. but i'm not a big expert <oblo>i have installed wine too via guix.. seems good <oblo>i tried nix but it's not working on my system <mark_weaver>something very strange happened when I tried to update my GuixSD system last night <mark_weaver>it downloaded several things I did not expect, such as three variants of guile-2.0.9.tar.xz with different hashes <mark_weaver>and it redownloaded emacs-24.5-rc1.tar.xz which was already in my store (I have a local patch updating my emacs to that version) <mark_weaver>this was after updating master from 2406601 to 2babe98 <mark_weaver>looking at the changes, the only thing I can think of that might cause such strange updates is taylanub's change to guix-daemon.cc (changing substitute-binary -> substitute) <mark_weaver>also, I'm not seeing the usual lines beginning with "@ " that show when one build process ends and another begins, so it's not easy to find the boundaries. this when running 'guix system build' <mark_weaver>the three copies of guile-2.0.9.tar.xz are really the most baffling part <mark_weaver>-r--r--r-- 7 root root 2885996 Dec 31 1969 /gnu/store/3aigj659vsjxcrhn0r0vmkbjh3kj5pbs-guile-2.0.9.tar.xz <mark_weaver>-r--r--r-- 7 root root 2656076 Dec 31 1969 /gnu/store/dgncc5wmw8prxq09y71hqjc6g7rxqvvb-guile-2.0.9.tar.xz <mark_weaver>-r--r--r-- 7 root root 2734180 Dec 31 1969 /gnu/store/v82g5slvrxra9fjqg5kxxncf1qqm24zw-guile-2.0.9.tar.xz <taylanub>I seem to have two other guile-2.0.9.tar.xz in my store, with hashes different from all three of those <civodul>mark_weaver: the '@' line are only seen with 'guix build' by default <civodul>i'm trying to see what could be causing problems <Sleep_Walker>hm, I considered these issues as consequence of my experiments <Sleep_Walker>mark_weaver: btw. thank you for your translation effort :) <Sleep_Walker>even though I believe we finally understood each other, I really appreciate it <civodul>mark_weaver: 'guix system build' wants to download a bunch of X and Python packages, nothing really surprising <civodul>also, the guix-daemon.cc changes have no impact if you're using GuixSD, because the snapshot is still the same <civodul>the 3 guile-2.0.9.tar.xz must be the bootstrap Guile for 3 platforms <civodul>you could try 'guix build guix' to see what happens <civodul>as for Emacs, it might be because of emacs-no-x <civodul>anyway, this is all based on the assumption that hydra was lagging behind and didn't have binaries for guix and emacs-no-x <mark_weaver>actually, it occurs to me that I ran "guix gc" recently, so that explains the extra downloads <mark_weaver>but why three slightly different versions of guile-2.0.9.tar.xz? <mark_weaver>civodul: the emacs builds are because I have a local patch updating my emacs to 24.5-rc1 <mark_weaver>well, I guess the 'guix gc' explains things well enough <Sleep_Walker>so my redownloads were consequences of my experiments :b <civodul>"guix build guix -s i686-linux -n" tells me everything is substitutable currently <mark_weaver>hydra is up-to-date for mips on master now too, woohoo! <mark_weaver>although I'm not sure anyone uses guix on mips anymore, but I guess it's good to help keep the system portable :) <taylanub>in what package can pidof be found? it might fix the ngircd test suite. <mark_weaver>on debian it's in sysvinit-utils, which we don't have and I'm not sure we should. <mark_weaver>taylanub: the manual for 'ps' gives this example to output just the PIDs of syslogd: ps -C syslogd -o pid= <taylanub>mark_weaver: would it be OK to entirely overwrite the getpid.sh script in the test suite, with one that doesn't have the portability hacks but will work for us? <civodul>taylanub: regarding the bugs for .so that lack stuff in their RPATHs, hadn't you fixed some of them? <taylanub>civodul: I had a fix for samba (and such bugs tend to appear in additional packages when they use the actual package with the bug, so multiple of the bug reports might get closed) <civodul>i was looking at how (guix elf) could be used to detect such problems *civodul has a module to extract ELF dynamic-link info <civodul>cleanup & integration for another day though <zacts>I really like the thinkpenguin librecmc router I got! <zacts>I can't wait to get one of those fsf endorsed laptops though, when I can afford one. <zacts>mark_weaver: davexunit: have you guys heard of the Atreus keyboard for emacs? <ijp>the gluglug conveniently ran out of stock when I needed a new laptop :) <zacts>^ I want to get one of these too. It's fully free hardware, and free software (even at the firmware level) <zacts>^ It uses a mini embedded scheme for the keyboard's firmware <zacts>I hope I can get one before they run out <fchmmr>the X200 is currently in stock, and will most likely stay that way for a long time <fchmmr>X60 is more or less discontinued at this point <zacts>(I wonder why technomancy doesn't apply to get his atreus keyboards FSF endorsed?) <ijp>it was probably still the x60 at the time <davexunit>I'm building an arcade stick. it would be cool to replace the firmware with one written in microscheme.