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<{0}grant>Do we not have a guile-wm session for slim, or am I missing something?
<taylanub>{0}grant: does guile-wm have any sane defaults? can it replace ratpoison yet? :-)
<{0}grant>taylanub: It hasn't been touched in sometime, but if your windowing needs is filled decently by Ratpoision -- then Guile-wm's tiling module is decently compatible to this mode of handling.
<{0}grant>The big thing I'm aware that it is missing, last I checked, was multi-keychord support. Like not being able to support something like "C-t n" but just "C-n".
<{0}grant>But for basic navigation, to be comperable to Ratpoison ... it's probably not really "needed". Though obviously, a wanted thing, eventually to support.
<{0}grant>I'm generally more interested a potiental Guile wayland compositor at this point though, though we probably have some way to go on that front. I'm not even aware of a general "guile-wayland" were "guile-xcb" seems, at least from my very limited knowledge ... "somewhat mature".
<rekado>I just upgraded my GuixSD test machine (a T60) via "guix pull && guix package -u".
<rekado>with the upgrade from xfce 4.10 to 4.12 startxfce4 broke.
<rekado>says "exec: xinit: not found".
<rekado>I suppose I can just install xinit, but it seems to me that this should not happen after an upgrade.
<rekado>should xinit be an input to xfce?
<{0}grant->rekado: If lack thereof is preventing the initialization of such a thing, I would think so.
<Sleep_Walker>on the other hand - check, whether it is xfce the package, which is complaining
<Sleep_Walker>it doesn't sound right that xfce would depend on xinit
<rekado>when I run "startxfce4" I get this error: /gnu/store/...-xfce4-session-4.12.0/bin/startxfce4: line 118: exec: xinit: not found
<rekado>startxfce4 is part of the xfce4-session output.
<taylanub>{0}grant: it seems things like 'C-t n' are supported; in fact I can't find out from the documentation how to best bind just 'C-n' (I use stuff like s-n, i.e. using the <super> key)
<oblo>i'm new in guix.. i launched "guix package -i lynx" and it seems is downloading the toolchain
<oblo>is this normal?
<taylanub>oblo: did you authorize Hydra for substitutes?
<taylanub>guix archive --authorize < $guix_source_dir/
<taylanub>(or in $prefix/share/guix/ after installation)
<oblo>thx taylanub
<oblo>no i didn't it
<oblo>i'm using lfs and i want see if it works
<rekado>hmm, there's even more broken with xfce.
<rekado>both xfce and xfce-session provide bin/startxfce4
<rekado>guix arbitrarily picks one.
<rekado>the next error is thrown by xinit: error while loading shared libraries: /gnu/store/...-libxdmcp-1.1.1/lib/ file too short.
<{0}grant>taylanub: Maybe it was to the extent of say "C-t C-x z" or similar, that I'm recalling support missing.
<{[]}grant>Would it be appropriate to package a binary distribution such as with the case of "git-annex-bin" ?
<davexunit>{[]}grant: no, it must be built from the complete corresponding source code.
<{[]}grant>Well, I welcome to whomever wants to drive into that dependency hell. :^P
<davexunit>we need a bunch of Haskell stuff.
<davexunit>we almost have a Haskell build system into master.
<davexunit>so we're on the way.
<{[]}grant>Okay, regarding a general build-system donation -- is there any reason to jump the ship off Fedora on the given box, and go full GSD?
<{[]}grant>Build system, in the sense of a build-box.
<davexunit>I don't think it's a necessity
<davexunit>but I don't administer the build farm, so I dunno :)
<{[]}grant>The eventual goal is to be full GSD, but atm, I have a very small-footprint need for personal hosting/services that such things are not currently available in Guix nor do I think will be easy enough to add trivially to make that kind of an extreme switch all of a sudden.
<{[]}grant>I have the min-build requirements though, as per the "donation" page.
<{[]}grant>~4gb and ~1tb for a dedicated root partition.
<mark_weaver>rekado: xfce is a meta package containing a bunch of other xfce-related packages. the idea is that you install 'xfce' *instead of* any of its inputs.
<mark_weaver>also, on GuixSD, if you install it in your system-wide profile, then SLIM will automatically support it as a session option.
<mark_weaver>(this was not always the case)
*{[]}grant might just jump ship on his main-box again, as well as said home-server/buildbox for/towards GSD. I have a spare box I can keep Parabola on if I need to be somefactor of "practical". :^P
<rekado>mark_weaver: I understand. I installed xfce 4.10.0 (with "guix package -i xfce") some time before Feb 23 and it worked fine. Since the upgrade, however, I can no longer start Xfce.
<rekado>BTW: this *is* on GuixSD, not Guix on top of Fedora.
<{[]}grant>Okay, I"m going to think/nap on this. Peace peeps. o/
*{[]}grant is afk.
<mark_weaver>{[]}grant: fwiw, I don't think we should have a build box that is also used as a personal server.
<mark_weaver>because it would be too vulnerable to remote exploits, and also it would make your personal server perform very badly
<rekado>another thing I noticed since the update: on VT 1 I get periodic X er ors about DBus.
<{[]}grant>mark_weaver: Last thing I say, before monitor is going off. That's just how I have such a system arranged now; I can probably allocate everything I do on that box for a personal server, I can do on the box I am at right now -- I'm not married to such a thing, and if nod a /massive/ headache and if such a thing is viewed poorely (as you've suggested) I'll move it to be fully dedicated.
<mark_weaver>rekado: the thing is, I think most/all of the current users of XFCE on Guix are launching it from SLIM, not from a text terminal.
<{[]}grant>Okay, anyways, I'll sleep on it. o/
<rekado>(EE) dbus-core: error connecting to system bus: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoServer (Failed to connect to socket /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: Connection refused)
<rekado>mark_weaver: back when I installed it first there was no way to launch XFCE from SLIM other than through ~/.xsession.
<rekado>My ~/.xsession does "exec startxfce4" and that's not working.
<rekado>I'm being thrown back to the login screen of SLIM.
<mark_weaver>does .xsession have "#!/bin/sh" as its first line? is it executable? (chmod +x)
<rekado>yes. As I said, it worked before.
<mark_weaver>rekado: is the system dbus running?
<rekado>judging from the error message I would suspect it is not. (But I haven't purposefully disabled it or anything.) Do I need to run guix system reconfigure or something like that?
<mark_weaver>because we don't currently clean up /var/run at boot time, after a crash some daemons will sometimes not start up because of stale pid files left around
<mark_weaver>the proper fix for this is a bit involved, so I haven't yet done it, but I'm currently running with a temporary patch to do the needed cleanup on my system.
<mark_weaver>(it assumes that /tmp and /var/run are on the root partition)
<rekado>Yes, I remember. I'll check this next time I boot the laptop.
<mark_weaver>here's what I'm using:
<mark_weaver>"deco status dmd" will tell you what services are not running.
<rekado>I should note, though, that I didn't experience any crash. I just updated and rebooted.
<rekado>okay. Thanks.
<mark_weaver>rekado: if you run that command, what does it list after "Stopped: " ?
<rekado>the machine is turned off now as I don't have time to work on this at the moment. But I'll try to find a few minutes in a couple of hoours.
<mark_weaver>okay, no rush
<oblo>the "hydra" way is working and i installed my first package.. lynx
<oblo>but i need to write "/home/oblo/.guix-profile/bin/lynx" to use it.. only "lynx" is not working
<taylanub>you can add ~/.guix-profile/bin (and sbin) to your $PATH environment variable. how is it not working?
<oblo>thx taylanub you're kind
<oblo>i'm using lfs and i try to add guix.. but i'm not a big expert
<oblo>i have installed wine too via guix.. seems good
<taylanub>Linux From Scratch?
<oblo>i tried nix but it's not working on my system
<oblo>it works! thx again
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<mark_weaver>hi civodul!
<mark_weaver>something very strange happened when I tried to update my GuixSD system last night
<mark_weaver>it downloaded several things I did not expect, such as three variants of guile-2.0.9.tar.xz with different hashes
<mark_weaver>and a new guile-static-stripped-2.0.11
<mark_weaver>and it redownloaded emacs-24.5-rc1.tar.xz which was already in my store (I have a local patch updating my emacs to that version)
<mark_weaver>I ended up aborting it
<mark_weaver>this was after updating master from 2406601 to 2babe98
<mark_weaver>did anyone else see anything like this?
<mark_weaver>looking at the changes, the only thing I can think of that might cause such strange updates is taylanub's change to (changing substitute-binary -> substitute)
<mark_weaver>I'd like to understand what's going on here.
<mark_weaver>also, I'm not seeing the usual lines beginning with "@ " that show when one build process ends and another begins, so it's not easy to find the boundaries. this when running 'guix system build'
<mark_weaver>here's a transcript:
<mark_weaver>the three copies of guile-2.0.9.tar.xz are really the most baffling part
<mark_weaver>they all have different sizes
<mark_weaver>they are:
<mark_weaver>-r--r--r-- 7 root root 2885996 Dec 31 1969 /gnu/store/3aigj659vsjxcrhn0r0vmkbjh3kj5pbs-guile-2.0.9.tar.xz
<mark_weaver>-r--r--r-- 7 root root 2656076 Dec 31 1969 /gnu/store/dgncc5wmw8prxq09y71hqjc6g7rxqvvb-guile-2.0.9.tar.xz
<mark_weaver>-r--r--r-- 7 root root 2734180 Dec 31 1969 /gnu/store/v82g5slvrxra9fjqg5kxxncf1qqm24zw-guile-2.0.9.tar.xz
<taylanub>I seem to have two other guile-2.0.9.tar.xz in my store, with hashes different from all three of those
<taylanub>no guile-static-stripped though
<mark_weaver>this is i686
<civodul>mark_weaver: the '@' line are only seen with 'guix build' by default
<civodul>i'm trying to see what could be causing problems
<mark_weaver>civodul: thanks
<Sleep_Walker>hm, I considered these issues as consequence of my experiments
<Sleep_Walker>I'm somehow glad that I'm not the only one affected
<mark_weaver>Sleep_Walker: oh, you saw the same thing?
<Sleep_Walker>redownload of packages without obvious reason
<Sleep_Walker>mostly as consequence of `guix environment guix'
<Sleep_Walker>but I haven't updated for a while
<Sleep_Walker>(since my last push)
<Sleep_Walker>mark_weaver: btw. thank you for your translation effort :)
<mark_weaver>Sleep_Walker: np!
<Sleep_Walker>even though I believe we finally understood each other, I really appreciate it
<civodul>mark_weaver: 'guix system build' wants to download a bunch of X and Python packages, nothing really surprising
<civodul>(i'm on x86_64)
<civodul>also, the changes have no impact if you're using GuixSD, because the snapshot is still the same
<mark_weaver>civodul: ah right, that's true
<civodul>the 3 guile-2.0.9.tar.xz must be the bootstrap Guile for 3 platforms
<civodul>needed to build Guix
<civodul>you could try 'guix build guix' to see what happens
<civodul>as for Emacs, it might be because of emacs-no-x
<civodul>anyway, this is all based on the assumption that hydra was lagging behind and didn't have binaries for guix and emacs-no-x
<mark_weaver>actually, it occurs to me that I ran "guix gc" recently, so that explains the extra downloads
<mark_weaver>but why three slightly different versions of guile-2.0.9.tar.xz?
<mark_weaver>I guess I should compare them.
<civodul>i686, x86_64, and mips
<mark_weaver>civodul: the emacs builds are because I have a local patch updating my emacs to 24.5-rc1
<civodul>yes, i see
<mark_weaver>well, I guess the 'guix gc' explains things well enough
<Sleep_Walker>so my redownloads were consequences of my experiments :b
<civodul>"guix build guix -s i686-linux -n" tells me everything is substitutable currently
<civodul>mark_weaver: ok, np!
<mark_weaver>hydra is up-to-date for mips on master now too, woohoo!
<mark_weaver>although I'm not sure anyone uses guix on mips anymore, but I guess it's good to help keep the system portable :)
<civodul>yup :-)
<taylanub>in what package can pidof be found? it might fix the ngircd test suite.
<mark_weaver>on debian it's in sysvinit-utils, which we don't have and I'm not sure we should.
<mark_weaver>taylanub: the manual for 'ps' gives this example to output just the PIDs of syslogd: ps -C syslogd -o pid=
<taylanub>mark_weaver: would it be OK to entirely overwrite the script in the test suite, with one that doesn't have the portability hacks but will work for us?
<Sleep_Walker>it's in psproc-ng - I was already looking for that :)
<civodul>taylanub: regarding the bugs for .so that lack stuff in their RPATHs, hadn't you fixed some of them?
<taylanub>civodul: I had a fix for samba (and such bugs tend to appear in additional packages when they use the actual package with the bug, so multiple of the bug reports might get closed)
<civodul>i was looking at how (guix elf) could be used to detect such problems
*civodul has a module to extract ELF dynamic-link info
<civodul>cleanup & integration for another day though
<civodul>good night/day!
<zacts>hi guix
<zacts>I really like the thinkpenguin librecmc router I got!
<zacts>I can't wait to get one of those fsf endorsed laptops though, when I can afford one.
<zacts>mark_weaver: davexunit: have you guys heard of the Atreus keyboard for emacs?
<zacts>let me find the link...
<ijp>the gluglug conveniently ran out of stock when I needed a new laptop :)
<zacts>^ I want to get one of these too. It's fully free hardware, and free software (even at the firmware level)
<zacts>^ It uses a mini embedded scheme for the keyboard's firmware
<zacts>ijp: ah that sucks
<zacts>I hope I can get one before they run out
<fchmmr>ijp, for which laptop? X60?
<fchmmr>the X200 is currently in stock, and will most likely stay that way for a long time
<fchmmr>X60 is more or less discontinued at this point
<zacts>(I wonder why technomancy doesn't apply to get his atreus keyboards FSF endorsed?)
<ijp>it was probably still the x60 at the time
<davexunit>zacts: yeah, the atreus seems awesome
<davexunit>as does microscheme
<davexunit>I'm building an arcade stick. it would be cool to replace the firmware with one written in microscheme.