*davexunit uses new cvs-fetch method for a package <davexunit>I *hate* CVS. I can't believe that I failed to convince the GNU webmasters that we should migrate away from it. <davexunit>how anyone could like this monstrosity is beyond me... <Digit>ugh, are there any working pastebins these days? they're all slower than molasses at 0kelvin. X| i only wanted to pastebin 3 lines errors from trying to install guix. <Digit>:) thnx. i'm a little out of my depth, presuming i'm missing something obvious i still need to install (like the previous half dozen errors that gave me more clues to deal with on my own) http://paste.lisp.org/display/145687 <Digit>*installs pkg-config, runs again* same output. <Digit>yeah, just pushing up cursor until i see "./bootstrap && ./configure && make" again, then hitting enter. *checks on libtool, installs libtool, runs again* same output. <davexunit>you might need to set some environment variable. *Digit snaps fingers and points <Digit>~ i think i'm going to pause this here though, for now. got exhausted earlier, lured into a systemd discussion. thanks loads for your help davexunit (and mark_weaver). when i pick this up again after a rest, once i get nixos configuration of "get some environment variable" sussed, hopefully this will all go smoothly then. *giddy with excitement for guix, despite exhaustion* <mark_weaver>Digit: that error definitely shows that pkg-config wasn't installed (or not available ACLOCAL_PATH) when ./bootstrap was run. <mark_weaver>Digit: specifically, there needs to be a file pkg.m4 in ACLOCAL_PATH or in the default aclocal path. it's normally in <PREFIX>/share/aclocal for some <PREFIX> <mark_weaver>if you installed 'pkg-config' using Guix itself, it will be in ~/.guix-profile/share/aclocal/ <mark_weaver>and that directory needs to be in ACLOCAL_PATH (or aclocal's compiled-in default search path) when ./bootstrap is run. <mark_weaver>(oh, and remember that "~" is not expanded in environment variables. it has to be an absolute path in there) *davexunit thinks we need re-usable phases for packages that require autotools <sir123>How can I regenerate my guix system if my initial config.scm had an error in it? <sir123>Not a syntax error, but a logical error? <sir123>Let's say I called the label it was searching for was root instead of '("label" <sir123>When I try to regen after fixing it it errs out on the python build <mark_weaver>sir123: just rerun 'guix system reconfigure' with a fixed config.scm <sir1234>As part of the system config, I guess <sir1234>It runs and goes through the build process of the stuff it needs i guess <mark_weaver>I should mention that 'guix system reconfigure' is only appropriate if you are already booted into that system. <mark_weaver>it updates the GuixSD system you are currently in with a new config <sir1234>So i can guix system reconfigure inside the running native system <mark_weaver>yes, assuming that the bad config is good enough to boot into <sir1234>The system boots and tries to start a non-existing partition called root <mark_weaver>well, an easy solution would be to label that partition 'root', by running "tune2fs -L root /dev/XXX" where XXX is the root partition (e.g. sda1) <mark_weaver>and then the existing config should work as-is, if that's the only problem with it. <sir1234>The booted system drops into a guile shell, how should i type it? <davexunit>our initial RAM disk program is written in Guile, btw <sir1234>I imagine. I tried looking for an fstab. No luck. <sir1234>I should use the USB system to modify this stuff, right? <sir1234>I'll try booting into the usb install disk, mount sda and run tune2fs? Is that right? <sir123>I'll have to redo guix system init, right? <jxself>davexunit: Changing away from CVS requires changes to the Savannah code.[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~ <jxself>This is why it's not happened yet. :) <jxself>I brought it up a couple of years ago. <jxself>The software powering savannah does option multiple VCSes for code repositories but for the web site repositories only one is support: CVS. Switching needs code changes to support multiple version control systems and makes the backend more complicated for hosting I'm told in a meeting back in the day with ward & bernie. But johnsu01 had said that it should switch to bzr if anything because it's a gnu thing but since the savannah hackers always seem <jxself>And I'm sure you'd love bzr, davexunit :) <davexunit>jxself: my issue was that I couldn't get people to agree that switching to git *eventually* was good. <davexunit>they didn't see the advantage of git over cvs. <jxself>There's probably a political battle over bzr vs. git though. <jxself>Convince John of the git v. bzr argument :) <jxself>OK. I guess he's changed his mind then. <jxself>Get the Savannah Hackers working on it then ;) <jxself>That's the only other blocking issue, AFAIK. <jxself>Oh, and if I recall Bernie correctly there's some software on wildebeest that would need updating. <jxself>I ended up in the same boat a few years ago and so CVS lives on. <jxself>gnu.org was defaced a few years ago when someone used a SQL injection attack to compromise savannah and get themselves added to the www project, thereby getting commit access. <jxself>I personally would love to see a newer VCS used because it would help to improve website security. GPG signed commits. :) <jxself>hellekin: All that's needed is to get the technical changes made to Savannah... <fchmmr>there's a lot of "linux as os" language there <fchmmr>" Alternately, GNU Guix can be installed as an additional package manager on top of an installed Linux-based system, on i686, x86_64, mips64el, and on armv7. " <jxself>Good point. Maybe send that to the mailing list? <mark_weaver>fchmmr: in the part that you quoted, I think it's a rare case where it's actually appropriate. <mark_weaver>the only part that guix uses from the host OS is the kernel. <mark_weaver>everything else comes from Guix itself, starting from its bootstrap binary tarballs. <mark_weaver>you said theres "a lot of" such language. any other places? <jxself>But even in the case where it's Guix using the host's linux kernel the OS is still not Linux. <mark_weaver>jxself: I don't think that statement suggests that it's an OS. <mark_weaver>I realize it's a common mistake, but I'm not sure this is an instance of that mistake. <mark_weaver>all we need of the host system is Linux, the kernel. <jxself>Yes, you do need that one component from that system. But is that system a "Linux-based system" or a "GNU/Linux-based system"? <jxself>It seems all of the arguments that the proper name for the full system then come into play. <mark_weaver>if we wrote "GNU/Linux-based system" there, it would imply that we need GNU on that system. <jxself>Yes, you need that one component. <jxself>But I feel like I am repeating myself now. <mark_weaver>any system that's based on Linux, as is capable of running Guile and a few other things, will do. <mark_weaver>and here I'm using the term Linux to mean just the kernel. <jxself>Then what of changing it to read " Alternately, GNU Guix can be installed as an additional package manager on top of any system running the kernel called Linux, on i686, x86_64, mips64el, and on armv7." <mark_weaver>in this case, the kernel needs to be Linux, but the userland doesn't have to be GNU. <mark_weaver>how about "on top of any system based on Linux (the kernel)" ? <mark_weaver>back in the years when I spent almost all of my time two doors down from RMS in the MIT AI lab, he suggested that exact wording to me. <mark_weaver>i.e. instead of saying "the Linux kernel", which suggests that the kernel is part of Linux, saying "Linux, the kernel", makes the point clear. <mark_weaver>"the kernel called Linux" seems a bit too awkward to me. <jxself>I don't care for the wording of Linux as a "base." It seems to imply, to me, that the kernel forms some deeper and more fundamental part and some have used this in arguments as to why the system should be called Linux rather than GNU/Linux. <mark_weaver>jxself is the only person I know in this world who makes me feel like I'm not sufficiently following the party line. even RMS doesn't make me feel this way, and I've spent *years* with him two doors down from me. <mark_weaver>how many distros do you know of who don't even want to include "Linux" in their name? <mark_weaver>RMS educated me very well over a few years of seeing him and talking with him every day that he wasn't travelling <zacts>I'm thinking I should get the autographed free software free society and the free as in freedom books <sneek>Welcome back zacts, you have 1 message. <sneek>zacts, dsmith-work says: Python tastes like chicken. <mark_weaver>RMS knows that language is very important, and I think I know it too. <mark_weaver>but believe it or not, there are actually times when the word "Linux" by itself is appropriate. <zacts>hm.. I don't mean to interject, but I do feel it is sometimes wise to critique ourselves, and our ideologies. <mark_weaver>admittedly, I'm probably too irritated right now to discuss this well. I should just work on something else for a while. <jxself>Indeed there are time where the name is appropriate. I assure you it is not my intention to make anyone feel any particular way; I'm only communicating the imagery that the wording brings to my mind. <mark_weaver>okay, fair enough. I appreciate your efforts to speak against language which may be confusing. <mark_weaver>fwiw, I agree that it's a fundamental mistake to consider the kernel to be a base or foundation. <mark_weaver>so maybe your suggested wording is closer to what we should have <jxself>So Guix really can't be installed on a system that uses HURD or kfreebsd or some other kernel? Assuming that someone only wanted it as a package manager for getting some extra programs like emacs or something to run on their current system? I guess I had missed that. <mark_weaver>jxself: it could be ported to those systems, but at present, no. <jxself>Although I suppose that the GNU Source Release Collection is probably better for that use case anyway. <jxself>In that aspect I suppose there's some overlap between guix gsrc. <mark_weaver>everything built with guix starts with our bootstrap tarballs. those have to be compiled based on the CPU architecture and kernel. <jxself>er; there was supposed to be an ampersand in there. :) <mark_weaver>from the beginning, our builds are done in chroot environments where no software at all from the host system is even accessible. <jxself>Okay so it could (in theory) it's as straightforward as recompiling the bootstrap binaries for the new system and dealing with whatever issue that might bring. <mark_weaver>guix-daemon uses some Linux-specific features to isolate the build environment. <jxself>Ah, lxo is done and 3.18.6 is out. <mark_weaver>(and again, whenever you see me use the word "Linux", you know I mean the kernel) <jxself>Would this be a good time to incorporate those changes to the packaging since a rebuild is needed anyway? <jxself>Yes, in that case the usage makes sense to me. :) <mark_weaver>jxself: it would be a good time if the changes are ready, but they aren't. I need to think about it some more, and ask fr comments on the mailing list. <jxself>Okay, so I shall just commit the new version... <jxself>I haven't compiled it yet though. <jxself>But I did run make oldconfig using the current kernel config which shows there are no changes for this version which is a positive indicator. <sir123>Hey, I'm having trouble with the guix system init. It downloads all the packages, then complains about symlink: file exists when it initialiazes under /mnt. Ideas? <sir1234>The exact file it complains about it is the emacs package in /gnu/store. I tried deleting it and rerunning the init, but the system complained about the next package. I tried wiping the folder, where it seemed to work until it tried to initialise /mnt and failed. <sir123>Can somebody help me with my problem? <sir123>The guix system init script fails when it tries to initialize /mnt. <sir123>No, the command 'guix system init' command that loads the packages. It claims a symlink problem.. <sir123>Ok, thanks for your help. Can you point me in the direction of somebody who can? <mongrol>not really, this is the best place, or the devel mailing list <mark_weaver>ewemoa: that fluxbox package looks good to me! thanks! <sir123>I'm not sure. The native or USB temporary system? <mark_weaver>sir123: what is the exact error message? was /mnt empty when you ran it? <mark_weaver>btw, it's important to never delete things from /gnu/store, except via the "guix gc -d" command. <mark_weaver>there's an sqlite database that has to be kept in sync with /gnu/store. <mark_weaver>and if you delete anything that is referenced from elsewhere, it would be bad. <sir123>Yup, the script won't start. Libgmp.so.10. I'll have to rebuild the system from scratch again, won't i? <sir123>It only takes 20 mins. I've done it a few times today. <sir123>Ok. I've spent ages trying to get this thing to work. :( <sneek>Welcome back jeffrin, you have 1 message. <sneek>jeffrin, dsmith-home says: Sorry we missed you, ask again an wait several days. We are slow sometimes. <jeffrin>mark_weaver : does GUIX related have git <mark_weaver>jeffrin: I'm not sure I understand the question, but we use git for our source control, and we have a 'git' package in guix. <jeffrin>mark_weaver : :) does guix have gnome <mark_weaver>we have the beginnings of an XFCE environment. that's the closest thing we have to a desktop environment at present. <mark_weaver>and we have a few other simpler window managers as well <mongrol>I'd rather see xfce and other package get attention first <mark_weaver>well, since we're all volunteers, people work on what they feel like working on :) <mongrol>I can but influence by throwing some ascii around on irc :) <mark_weaver>fair enough, and fwiw, I suspect that XFCE will get a fair share of attention since it is the best thing we have right now. (and lots of people prefer it over GNOME/KDE anyway) <mark_weaver>however, I personally like GNOME 3 and look forward to the day when we have it. <mark_weaver>(which is not to say that I don't have some complaints about it, but on the whole I think it's the most promising DE for attracting new people to GNU/Linux) <sir123>Hey guys, I got the system installed, just seemed be a naming error in the config, but now the system boots into a kernel panic! How can I diagnose this? <sir123>Guys? What should I do about a kernel panic? <sir1234>Could I please get some advice on how to fix a fresh-install kernel panic on boot? <sir1234>Hey, could I please get some help on how to fix a freshly installed system that is kernel panicking on boot? <sir1234>My system won't boot, but I can type on my Replicant phone. <sir1234>I have my install USB. What file do you need exactly? <mark_weaver>the config file, whose name you passed to "guix system init <config>" <sir1234>Ok. It's a modified suggested one on the site. <mark_weaver>btw, this happens to me sometimes too, but when it does I can just boot to an older config. so once you have one working system on there, you can rest assured you can always boot. <mark_weaver>but if you have no working systems, that's a different story :-/ <mark_weaver>(and by "system" I mean the result of "guix system ...") <sir1234>This is the closest I've got to a running system. It just won't boot. <mark_weaver>I'm sorry, but I can't help without more information. <mark_weaver>for starters, I need to see the exact file that you passed to 'guix system init' <sir1234>Grub works, it spits out the declaration of starting subsystems and then crashes. Can i retreive that log and study it? <sir1234>Okay, how could I do that? Leaving the USB in ends in a traceback <mark_weaver>well, I've asked twice for the config file, but you are ignoring those requests. <sir1234>Sorry, i haven't understood what you mean. Do you want a readout of the config.scm I wrote or the command line I gave it? <sir1234>The config.scm creates a problem since the system hasn't booted successfully yet. At all. <mark_weaver>you can boot into the usb installer and access it that way. <sir1234>Yes. Does lynx work in the usb installer? <mark_weaver>sir1234: once you start the cow-store, you can install and use lynx, yes. <mark_weaver>however, I'm sorry to say that I must go to sleep very soon. <sir1234>How can I start a program in the native from the usb environment? Chroot? <mark_weaver>the main limitation is that its running in a ram disk, so there's limited disk space. <mark_weaver>but when you start the cow-store, then at least the packages you install will be on the hard disk. <mark_weaver>anyway, the european guix devs will hopefully be here within a few hours, and can help you more. <sir1234>Ok. I've been on here before to troubleshoot my wireless. <sir1234>Ok, so I start the cow store, download lynx, copy file to pastebin and link back here? <mark_weaver>yes, but please not pastebin. they block tor users, and many of us use tor <mark_weaver>no, you're not. I'm sorry if I gave that impression. <mark_weaver>I'm not sure off hand how easy it will be to get the file into the web form in lynx. <sir1234>That's ok. Free software is what matters. <sir1234>I can do that. I'm not very experienced in emacs though. <mark_weaver>I haven't tried to install something like emacs and emacs-w3m in the USB installer before, but as long as you've activated the cow-store, I don't see why it wouldn't work. <mark_weaver>these derivations will be built:you might need to add ~/.guix-profile/ <mark_weaver> /gnu/store/ayjvjvmpaiwlj36vvfygdfbl48ql3gcb-wicd-1.7.3.tar.xz.drv <mark_weaver> /gnu/store/v88dz8vic2qj1jkv1a38s7x583klv3rq-wicd-1.7.3.drv <mark_weaver>cannot build missing derivation `/gnu/store/v88dz8vic2qj1jkv1a38s7x583klv3rq-wicd-1.7.3.drv' <mark_weaver>error: build of `/gnu/store/v88dz8vic2qj1jkv1a38s7x583klv3rq-wicd-1.7.3.drv' failed <sir1234>I must say, i'm really excited for this distro. <mark_weaver>you might need to add $HOME/.guix-profile/share/emacs/site-lisp to your emacs load path manually. <sir1234>It seems a little closer to GNU than other distros, tbh. <mark_weaver>we are a young project, so lots of rough edges. not yet for newbies :) <sir1234>I started installing here in Australia at 9:30 PM last night, worked on it till 2 am, now here i am after all day. <sir1234>I still think it's worth doing though. <mark_weaver>but I've been using it as my primary system for many months, and the roll-back allows me to live on the bleeding edge, yet secure in the knowledge that I can always roll-back to a working system if I break something. that's nice. <mark_weaver>but you have to have at least one working config first :) <sir1234>That's nice. I hope to contribute once I get it working. <sir1234>It's still getting prerequisites, sorry. <mark_weaver>the default emacs package is built with GTK, which brings in lots of stuff. <mark_weaver>I even run shells in emacs, so I can easily copy+paste from the output of commands, etc. <sir1234>There's a great story on emacs in his biography. Great read. <mark_weaver>I had the privilege of being RMS's preferred typist in the Boston area (his home base) about a dozen years ago when he shattered his elbow, and that really honed by emacs skills. <mark_weaver>I learned precisely what keystrokes and commands he uses himself. <mark_weaver>but spent most of my time two doors down from him in the AI lab. saw him and spoke to him every day that he wasn't travelling. it was quite a privilege. I miss those days. <sir1234>That's an incredible story. Is he as amazing in person as he is online? <mark_weaver>not everyone feels that way though. lots of people find him hard to deal with. but I got along with him very well. <sir1234>Man, I wish I was as lucky as you. You must be really proud! <mark_weaver>I don't know if it's a reason to be proud, but I'd agree with the "lucky" part :) <sir1234>He does seem really idealistic. But his work in computer liberation is unmatched. Shame all people think about is Linus Torvalds when we discuss our OS. <mark_weaver>anyway, I really must sleep soon. I need to be awake 6 hours from now, and hopefully sleep between now and then. <sir1234>Ok. I'm waiting on gtk+ to download... <sir1234>What command selects everything in emacs?? <mark_weaver>though C-x i might be more appropriate here. it inserts a file at the current point. *mongrol stares into the abyss that is Emacs *ewemoa thought he saw emacs wink back ;) <sir1234>Yes, ive typed in the url, it's fontifying..done <sir1234>What do. I do now? Nothing has changed <mark_weaver>fill in the form. the square bracket keys are convenient ways to move to the next form field. <mark_weaver>when you hit RET on the big field, it will open a buffer. <mark_weaver>from there you can type C-x i to insert the file into that buffer. <mark_weaver>you'll need to do the multiplication problem to prove you're a human. <mark_weaver>when it's all filled in, hit RET on the "Submit paste" button. <mark_weaver>I don't know if this would cause the panic, but your home-directory field is missing the initial "/" <mark_weaver>sir1234: what's the device corresponding to the root partition? <mark_weaver>sir1234: type M-x shell RET to launch a shell in emacs. <mark_weaver>in that shell, type "e2label /dev/sda3" and tell me what it says. <sir1234>That was causing install issues before i labelled it properly. <mark_weaver>sir1234: I think it's worth trying again with that home-directory fixed. <sir1234>It's downloading stuff now. I hope this works. Thank you <sir123>Hey, I'm trying to 'guix system init' and it's reporting error:symlink: file exists. What should I do? <sir123>The specific package it fails on is emacs. <sir123>It's already downloaded the packages, it's trying to copy them now. <sir123>Could I please get some help on the guix system init? It complains about a symlink: file exists. <sir123>Hi, I'm having an issue 'initializing operating system under /mnt'. It outputs 'spurios SIGPOLL', then it tries to copy some packages around, then it spits out an error about 'symlink: file exists'. Any help would be very much appreciated. <DusXMT>sir123: Might it be that you're trying to use `guix system init' instead of `guix system reconfigure'? <DusXMT>Hmm, seems like not, didn't read your last message properly. Ensure /mnt is clean, with no file, before attempting to init a system in it <sir123>So the file system is unmounted? <DusXMT>sir123: what exactly are you trying to do? <sir123>I've been trying to install the GSD since last night. After much trial and error, I have a functioning config file (I think). I initted the system with a bad config file that pointed to home/<username> instead of /home/<username>. The system installed but kernel panicked when booted. I was assisted (read previous logs today) to fix the config file, but now I have this issue. <DusXMT>sir123: The simplest solution is to format the drive. Back up anything important, and then, mkfs.ext4 -L yourdrivelabel /dev/sdX <sir123>The root /dev/sda3 is mounted as root, should I wipe that and redo it? <DusXMT>I guess you could try deleting /mnt/gnu and /mnt/var ; that might be less drastic <sir123>So, I should fdisk delete the root and create a new one? <DusXMT>sir123: no, you can just format it with mkfs.ext4 <DusXMT>Or you can just delete those 2 folders <sir1234>Ok, I now need to reconnect to the internet, make my configs and try again? <DusXMT>sir1234: no need to re-make it, just back it up and use it <DusXMT>sir123: At what point are you/what's the state of the system? <sir123>I have the config file here, my /dev/sda3 is mounted on /mnt, and I'm connected to the web. <DusXMT>Then, just mkdir /mnt/etc; cp /path/to/your/config /mnt/etc/config.scm; guix system init /mnt/etc/config.scm /mnt <sir123>I do an ls in in and all i have is /etc containing the config, and wpa.conf in the root for my wireless <DusXMT>Okay, then you're ready for initting the system <sir123>It has to download a lot of stuff, so it'll be a while <sir123>Hi, I installed the system and it boots, but it ends up looping on a 'waiting for partition 'root' to appear'. <sir123>I checked the name of the partition in parted and it is indeed 'root'. <sir123>Hello, I have an installed GSD that boots but keeps 'waiting for partition 'root' to appear' <sir123>Until it gives up and falls into a scheme prompt. <sir123>Can somebody please help me fix an install that loops 'waiting for partition 'root' to appear' until it fails into a guile prompt? <sir123>Ok, so it looks like I have to reconfigure - but the system doesn't boot. I could re init from the USB but it messes up GRUB. <sir123>I think there's an issue in its filesystem initialising (on boot). What controls the partitions on boot (like fstab)? <sir123>I remember it came up with a load of warnings that 'mount' (among others) was an 'unbound variable' when it installed. Something wrong with the filesystem manager on boot? <sir123>Does anyone have any other ideas? ***yang_ is now known as yang
<paroneayea>maybe I'll try to install guix on my beaglebone black today, or something. At any rate, I do need to get a backup solution running on it. :) <paroneayea>maybe I should run it in qemu first and get familiar though :) <jxself>I've thought of buying one of those things. Not sure I actually have a use for it though. <paroneayea>jxself: I've planned on moving my humongous old desktop off of being the backup machine to the bbb <paroneayea>I'm not sure what else to do with it, if anything, though <mark_weaver>paroneayea: note that we don't yet have any ARM build slaves for hydra, so there are no pre-compiled binaries available. <paroneayea>mark_weaver: maybe there's a use for a bbb for the guix project ;) <mark_weaver>I'm not sure the BBB has enough RAM to bootstrap GuixSD from scratch, alas. <mark_weaver>we need build slaves for ARM. until we have them, only those with very powerful ARM machines will be able to use it. <jxself>I remember being impressed with a machine that had 4MB of RAM and thinking it was just sooooo much. <paroneayea>well I used to run gentoo on a 512mb ram machine, and that compiled everything... :) *mark_weaver remembers when 64K seemed like more than enough RAM :) <xxxjgrant>The 0.8.1 usb install image fails via a 'system init' with a bad gateway complaint -- if you don't pull the latest. <mark_weaver>"bad gateway" means that nginx (the front end server) timed out waiting for a response from the hydra web application behind it. the timeout is 2 minutes. <mark_weaver>or at least timeouts are the most likely cause of that problem. <espectalll123>Anybody help me with his magical, glorious package manager pls? <espectalll123>Told you yesterday that I had compiled and installed Guix on my Ubuntu installation <espectalll123>it's trying to reinstall coreutils, the Linux kernel... like, everything <davexunit>espectalll123: is this the first package you installed? <espectalll123>And I understand that Guix cannot magically find all my installed Debian packages, but this is awkward to say the least <davexunit>when you install a package, you get *all* the dependent packages, all the way down to libc <DusXMT>espectalll123: not only `cannot magically find all', it can't find any, since it's isolated <espectalll123>So now I have to duplicate the system's kernel, daemon, basic tools... <DusXMT>espectalll123: you don't need a kernel for emacs <davexunit>you must understand, the versions of those pieces of software on your Ubuntu machine are *not* the same as the one that Guix uses. <DusXMT>well, you need a booted system, but it can be any distro. <mark_weaver>espectalll123: by design, Guix doesn't use anything from the host system except the kernel. <mark_weaver>if that's what you want, maybe GSRC is more what you're looking for? <davexunit>so, I just packaged a piece of software that calls git and gpg at runtime. I guess I should patch the source such that it refers to a version of git/gpg that's in /gnu/store, rather than propagating, yes? <a_e>davexunit: I think so. <davexunit>a_e: yeah, thought so. I will likely give up on this package. hunting down all the uses of git and gpg is tedious. <espectalll123>For now, at least, it now justs downloads the necessary files. Not the kernel. Which is OK. <a_e>davexunit: A judicious substitute* is not enough? <davexunit>a_e: replacing all instances of 'git' will break things <davexunit>that way it would be as simple as replacing a variable <a_e>Or a configure option. <a_e>But let me guess: They do not use the autotools? <davexunit>and they use gpg + git to do all the real work <davexunit>the makefile is relatively well constructed. it was easy to set the prefix and stuff. <mark_weaver>davexunit: I generally take the time to substitute the references with absolute paths (e.g. in 'wicd', which was a pain), but another easier way is to use 'wrap-program'. <davexunit>I'm going to email the author and see what they think about using variables. <espectalll123>I'd like to confirm something (I apologize for such silly questions, remember - I'm a newbie): packages are usually compiled instead of just getting binaries, right? <a_e>Yes, we contribute to improving installability of software! <a_e>espectalll123: Both are possible. <a_e>You can enable substitutes, as explained in the manual. <a_e>Then they are downloaded from hydra.gnu.org (if already compiled there). <espectalll123>a_e: Guessed it, I've heard that you can specify it on the package <a_e>Or you can be paranoid and compile everything yourself. <a_e>If you enable substitutes in principle, you can still pass the command line argument --no-substitutes for a given action. <espectalll123>You know. I've lately been thinking that the Linux kernel and derived systems are getting too much garbage, especially with things such as SystemV. Usually because of how poorly built could have been, as most distros are made for as many hardware and purposes as possible. Giving this hackability to empower users seems like a lot more practical approach than standard package managers, not just a freedom bonus. <espectalll123>You know, systems like Arch already do that partially and in a decent way, but this looks much better. <espectalll123>You know. Because otherwise - why would you need a new package manager. <espectalll123>Just geeting some newbie conclusions that you probably have already thinked about :P <a_e>If your conclusions are that you like guix, why should I disagree? <espectalll123>Some people disagree with positive conclusions about things that they also like <espectalll123>I'm actually having a very long log and have no idea what Guix is compiling... :/ <a_e>Even if it is weird, it will be isolated in /gnu/store. So no need to worry. <espectalll123>For some reason, I love doing all this compiling by doing nothing at all. <Gabou>Hello everybody! I've finally made a torrent like jgrant wanted (gsd-usb-install-0.8.1.i686|x86_64-linux.xz), where should I put them? <davexunit>Gabou: send the files to guix-devel@gnu.org ? <Gabou>davexunit: can you provide me the webpage to register to this maillist? <civodul>i just tried wicd, but it fails for my WEP (!) network *davexunit packages aircrack-ng and heads to civodul's neighborhood <mark_weaver>civodul: one thing though: as I recall, you can't simply select the network. <civodul>yes, i entered the passphrase and everything in wicd-gtk <civodul>stracing wicd shows that it forks/execs everything you could think of <mark_weaver>civodul: above the box where the passphrase goes, there's a pop-up menu. you need to select the right one. <civodul>i tried the two WEP options, "passphrase" and "hex" <mark_weaver>after packaging wicd, I learned that the developer(s) have announced that it's a dead project now. <civodul>someone came to me at FOSDEM: "why are you packaging this thing?" ;-) <mark_weaver>well, that's a bummer that it doesn't work for you :-/ <mark_weaver>two dhclients on the same interface would probably be bad. <mark_weaver>civodul: btw, how do I print with cups? do I have to run cupsd manually? how do I configure it? <civodul>mark_weaver: no i've removed dhcp-service <civodul>mark_weaver: re cups, you can try to print with the GTK+ dialog box <civodul>or using 'lpr' from the command line <civodul>well, except if you have an actual printer plugged in <mark_weaver>I don't see my network printer listed. not sure how to add it, but I remember it being easy on Debian. <civodul>i haven't tried with icecat, but i think it doesn't use the GTK+ thing <civodul>if you have Avahi, chances are that the printer will automatically be discoverd <civodul>works for me at home, but not at work, for unknown reasons <mark_weaver>civodul: what's an example of a program we have in Guix that uses the GTK+ print dialog? <espectalll123>Hello again. Compiling packages for hours is a normal thing - right? <mark_weaver>espectalll123: if you haven't enabled binary substitutes, then yes. <civodul>substitutes are enabled by default in 0.8.1 though <espectalll123>mark_weaver: Thx. Yay. Luckily, I don't need the packages to work right now. <mark_weaver>espectalll123: did you install guix from the tarball or git on top of another distro? or are you using our usb-installer? <mark_weaver>civodul: substitutes are enabled by default in GuixSD but not in a tarball install, right? <espectalll123>mark_weaver: On top of Ubuntu, of course. Downloaded from the tarball. GuixSD is pending to test after bugs on QEMU. <mark_weaver>civodul: also, will hydra keep all of the outputs from the 0.8.1 release, even after we've had >5 newer evaluations ? <mark_weaver>espectalll123: do you want to be compiling from source, or would you prefer to download pre-compiled binaries? <zacts>the main thing I need to install guix on real hw, is full disk encryption <zacts>and firmware for the thinkpenguin devices, although I can easily add these myself <espectalll123>mark_weaver: Right now, no problem with compiling. Don't care if most of packages have to be compiled once (how long would updates take to compile?) <mark_weaver>well, for the RYF-certified thinkpenguin USB adapters, I mean. <zacts>I'm a big fan of thinkpenguin, yes. I got a lot of the RYF-certified hardware <mark_weaver>espectalll123: periodically we update packages that a lot of other packages depend upon, which force a lot of rebuilds. <zacts>mark_weaver: well I guess I don't need Full Disk Encryption to test guix out on my old laptop <zacts>I currently have Dragora GNU/Linux on it. <zacts>I think I may put GUIX on it today <zacts>mark_weaver: yeah I got several of the devices listed there <zacts>and soon to get another wifi <zacts>also, I'm going to get the RYF router <Gabou>mark_weaver: hardware != computer eh :P <zacts>I really like the bluetooth for headphones and speakers <zacts>although, I would like to find fully free firmware speakers for this <Sleep_Walker>mark_weaver, civodul: about connman - I have it compiled, without client and without service file <Sleep_Walker>right now I'm trying to reach the people around that because install phase is weirfd <mark_weaver>Sleep_Walker: do you have a guix package for it, or did you compile it manually? <Sleep_Walker>if you install compiled connmanctl manually, it should just work <mark_weaver>have you successfully used it to connect to a WPA network? <civodul>Sleep_Walker: ok, thanks for working on it! <mark_weaver>in daemons like this, there are usually complications that arise from our non-FHS filesystem layout and our immutable installation directories. <mark_weaver>bah, my texlive download from hydra seems to have gotten stuck at about 2 gigabytes into the download (of out about 3.4 gigs) <mark_weaver>one more reason why it would be good to split that package up <mark_weaver>hmm, and my TCP connections to hydra are in the CLOSE_WAIT state. <mark_weaver>actually, I suspect that the output is just not getting flushed. <mark_weaver>the substituter download progress while running "guix package -u" <mark_weaver>yes, much later, suddenly all of the pending output came. <civodul>oh yeah, i noticed something like that since we switched to nginx <mark_weaver>but for a long time, it looked like it was stuck in the middle of the download, but 'top' and 'ps' and other things showed that it was clearly proceeding. <civodul>though it's probably not related, just a side effect <civodul>mark_weaver: actually, i think the fix for that is in wip-http-pipelining <mark_weaver>civodul: oh, sounds good. I should test that branch. <civodul>yeah, i can already cherry-pick that patch <civodul>i would welcome more testing of wip-http-pipelining nonetheless <mark_weaver>civodul: I also see a lot of old sockets in CLOSE_WAIT state hanging around. <mark_weaver>specifically, the ftp connections to check package freshness. <civodul>could be because of the 'ftp-open*' hack? <mark_weaver>it may be the first program to be available in guix before it was even released to the public :)