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<rekado>The discussion on gnu-system-discuss is bizarre. Just sayin'.

<taylanub>I think it's rather unsurprising that RMS doesn't accept "GNU System Distribution", given his previous reasonings

<taylanub>that being said, has anyone pointed out to RMS that GuixDistro probably deserves a *little* more attention than other GNU/Linux-libre distributions, because they're all tied to the upstream of some other, non-GNU-friendly distro?

<civodul>Hello Guix!

<taylanub>morning :)

<rekado_>taylanub: the latest proposal was to use "*Guix* System Distribution", not "*GNU* System Distribution".

<rekado_>this name is in no way presumptuous or arrogant.

<rekado_>objecting to an abbreviation seems like nitpicking to me.

<civodul>+1

<rekado_>the way I see it, bringing up this whole name thing on gnu-system-discuss is a courtesy. Since rms has expressed that he is not happy with calling GSD "The GNU System" (or anything similarly strong) and we have given up on giving it a controversial name, I don't think that this discussion even belongs on gnu-system-discuss anymore.

<rekado_>as far as I'm concerned, this discussion ended with rms writing "Guix System Distribution is ok, [...]" (see https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/gnu-system-discuss/2015-01/msg00042.html for the full message)

<dfh>i read rms objecting to the abbreviation "GSD" because it's too similar to "BSD" -- i thought that similarity kind of was the point?

<taylanub>dfh: according to the others it was, but RMS didn't like it

<dfh>yeah i figured. i like it tho'

<taylanub>rekado_: I don't think we should antagonize RMS. he had valid points for rejecting the other names...

<jgrant>The ML is driving me nuts.

<davexunit>guix-devel or another?

<jgrant>davexunit: gnu-system-discuss.

<jgrant>RMS finally responded, doesn't like GSD.

<jgrant>Aurelien is warning us that we're going to kill other free software distros with hostility, etc, etc.

<davexunit>...

<jgrant> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/gnu-system-discuss/2015-01/msg00044.html

<jgrant>Also, RMS's comment. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/gnu-system-discuss/2015-01/msg00041.html

<jgrant>He comments as if GSD still meant "GNU System Distro" though ...

<jgrant>so I don't know if he just skimmed over it ... or

<davexunit>lol "guix system distribution" is OK, but abbreviating it to "GSD" is *not*

<davexunit>I don't take that other person's reply very seriously.

*jgrant is kinda starting to get annoyed over this whole thing. He thought he was over it at this point ... but the amount of inane nonesness is pulling him back in.

<jgrant>davexunit: It just annoys me a bit that someone (I think it's a Parabola dev) thinks the intent is to wipe them out.

<davexunit>Aurelien just sounds like a troll here: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/gnu-system-discuss/2015-01/msg00045.html

<davexunit>maybe it's just because english is not his native language

<jgrant>davexunit: It's that (I've talked to him before, it's aprox this level) and the fact that he's threatened for no real reason, so he's being overly defensive/hostile.

*taylanub ponders what the DistroWatch entry of GuixDistro would call it, whether the name be Guixotic or GSD

<davexunit>I would just ignore him. We obviously have no desire to destroy Parabola nor any other free distro.

<taylanub>"GNU GSD" (or "GNU Guixotic") would probably be best; if it's just GSD/Guixotic, people will probably see it as a "Linux distro"

<davexunit>I hope no one forces us to put "GNU/Linux" in the name at all times

<civodul>i think we'll go for GSD now, yay!

<davexunit>will it be "guix software distribution" or "guix system distribution"?

<taylanub>ugh, DistroWatch uses the word "Linux" everywhere anyway :\\

<davexunit>the former seems less redundant.

<jgrant>davexunit: In an ideal world I'd like to see the Free Software world unite under developing one distro primarily ... but not only is that not going to happen, I don't want other free software distros to go away in such a system. I do find overfragmentation problematic though. :^P

<civodul>davexunit: "guix system distribution"

<jgrant>Yeah, "system" in this context makes a lot more sense.

<jgrant>civodul: davexunit meant former though, so "software" I think.

<jgrant>I don't know, yeah, I guess dave is right.

<davexunit>either way is fine.

<jgrant>I was thinking both are kinda redundant, because Guix is primarily a package manager. So "package-mananger package distribution" vs "package-manager system distribution".

<civodul>yeah, think no more about it ;-)

<jgrant>Thinking on it though, yeah, no, "software" makes more sense in this context to me.

<civodul>we're looking for a name to replace the phrase "standalone operating system"

<civodul>that's why i think "system" is better

<jgrant>civodul: Your call man.

<davexunit>civodul: that explanation makes it sound better.

<davexunit>sounds good. :)

<rekado_>yay, I guess.

<civodul>consensus is great :-)

<taylanub>I bet people will confuse that forever due to the Berkeley Software Distribution association :P

<jgrant>"GNU is not Unix; GSD isn't BSD." :^P

<civodul>exactly

<davexunit>GSD ain't no BSD

<jgrant>davexunit: You have to get hip with our bible-belt talk. "GSD ain't not no BSD."

<mark_weaver>civodul: I have one worry about 'delayed' fields: if anyone consults fluid variables like '%current-system' from such fields, their results will still be memoized, right?

<mark_weaver>does memoizing the patches field make a significant difference in performance?

<mark_weaver>because I wonder if 'search-patch' might not be a better place to do any such memoization.

<mark_weaver>well, it's a vague thought, maybe not even worth mentioning :)

<mark_weaver>in other news, it seems that wip-gobject-introspection is probably ready to merge.

<civodul>mark_weaver: "delayed" field have a different purpose from "thunked" field

*davexunit wonders about the potential 'guix environment' bug...

<civodul>so one shouldn't use them to consult delayed fields to consult fluids and such

<civodul>mark_weaver: there's no performance impact

<civodul>in fact it potentially reduces the number of search-path calls when running "guix package -i foo" or similar

*civodul rushes back home

<civodul>ttyl!

<effa```>mark_weaver: I've just submitted the last patch related to gobject-introspection to the ML. After that, from my point of view, wip-gobject-introspection should be ready to be merged.

<_root_>Hello; I am new to this concept of package manager.

<_root_>first is there a linux distro with guix as its package manager?

<davexunit>_root_: hello! our distro is the only one that uses guix.

<DusXMT>_root_: There is one (the name isn't 100% decided yet, but it's either called Guixotic or GSD)

<_root_>davexunit: and what is the name?

<_root_>url?

<davexunit>what DusXMT said, it's currently called "Guixotic", but will likely be renamed to "Guix System Distribution"

<davexunit>_root_: https://gnu.org/s/guix

<davexunit>the package manager and distro live together in the same project

<_root_>yes I was there but it is bit messy. what version and latest one I mean.

<davexunit>0.8 is the latest release.

<DusXMT>_root_: ftp://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/guix/ , there's gnu-usb-install images. But before you dive into those, it'd be a better idea to first try installing it on top of your distro, so you can learn how to use it before diving into a whole system of it

<_root_>how is it? how manay packages do you provide?

<_root_>DusXMT: no; I learn that way better

<_root_>the whole hands on exp.

<jxself> http://www.gnu.org/software/guix/package-list.html

<jxself>Might be helpful to see what's there.

<davexunit>_root_: we have ~1,000

<_root_>I would bother you folks more but ...:)

<DusXMT>_root_: well then, that's the image, to install it, once it boots up, switch to VT2 (ALT+F2) for installation instructions

<_root_>davexunit: I am a moderate user; a wmfs and urxvt and nvidia would do

<davexunit>for nvidia gpus, you will use the nouveau drivers on guix

<davexunit>nvidia's official drivers are non-free, so we do not include them.

<DusXMT>One thing that's kind-of outdated in the instructions is the `setting up networking', it assumes the interface is called ethX, while the system is set up to use unique interface names, so type `ifconfig -a' to get yours

<_root_>davexunit: oh; that's problematic esp for kernel >>3.17

<davexunit>_root_: how so?

<jxself>Yeah, distribution of proprietary software is even MORE problematic.

<davexunit>what's really problematic is using nonfree software

<_root_>the new code that nouveau guys put in will put the GPU fan on max drive.

<jxself>The solution to that can't be to use proprietary software though.

<mark_weaver>if there's a recently-added problem with nouveau, I imagine they'll fix it soon.

<_root_>I talked to them but they seem not interested

<_root_>it is 3 month now

<_root_>no news

<mark_weaver>but yeah, we're committed to providing a 100% free system, and that's not negotiable.

<_root_>any way that I run nvidia binary myself?

<davexunit>I'll have to check on that, I have an nvidia gpu in one of my computers.

<_root_>No that's fantastic. that you are only free

<_root_>software

<davexunit>if the fan issue is serious, we could try to address it somehow.

<_root_>if I could solve nouveau problem I would have been on Gsec/Hardened system by now

<mark_weaver>_root_: can you show me where you reported the nouveau problem and where they seem "not interested" ?

<_root_>davexunit: on GT6XX versions from the time that nouveau kicks in the fan will run at full speed

<davexunit>I have a gtx275

<_root_>butting to much pressure of the fan itself.

<davexunit>quite an old gpu at this point.

<_root_>*putting

<_root_>davexunit: you mean mine?

<davexunit>mine.

<davexunit>it's gotta be more than 5 years old now.

<davexunit>I feel like it was just yesterday that I built this computer...

<_root_>davexunit: 5 years isn't that old. but Nvidia is quite fast in releasing new hardwares]

<_root_>i will look for my bug report link i will give it here

<_root_>also in the meantime I will start the download process and make my system. ok?

<_root_>should I have the full knowledge of lisp lanaguage for this to work?

<davexunit>_root_: no, but any familiarity helps.

<davexunit>we're looking to make things accessible to non-lisp programmers

<_root_>if it really helps I will be open to learn it

<_root_>but i don't know where to start

<jxself>The beginning is typically the best place.

<_root_>and where would that be?

<jxself>The beginning. :)

<davexunit>_root_: the guix manual should tell you enough about how to write a system configuration file.

<jxself>Some have said they've enjoyed The Little Schemer.

<jxself>Ah, I thought you were asking about learning Scheme...

<davexunit>if you can make a working config and sort of see what's going on, you can learn the rest after.

<_root_>I was asking that; because as It is called "a hacking linux distro"

<_root_>but yes I will look at the manual.

<jxself>GNU/Linux ;)

<davexunit>_root_: are you a programme?

<davexunit>programmer*

<_root_>davexunit: yes; I am a system admin, with a bit of time on my hand.

<_root_>but it won't stay that way

<_root_>I was hearing about your effort here and there and wanted really to test the project but hadn't have much luck till now

<davexunit>_root_: thanks for being brave and trying it. :)

<davexunit>we're in alpha, so you definitely won't find a pleasant graphical installer or all of the packages you might want/expect.

<_root_>davexunit: i worked with gentoo before. I think i could find my way

<davexunit>_root_: :)

<davexunit>and of course, feel free to ask here if/when you get stuck.

<davexunit>someone is usually around to answer questions

<_root_>davexunit: I watch the video of the project yesterday

<_root_>that got me hooked

<davexunit>_root_: oh cool. which one?

<_root_>davexunit: the with the skiny tall laughing guy and bad video projection. http://tiny.cc/#tinyurl

<_root_> http://tiny.cc/1j3rsx

<davexunit>oh wow

<davexunit>that's from the early days of guix

<_root_>davexunit: I could find any other video

<davexunit>check out https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/#talks

<davexunit>the latest video unfortunately has *very bad* audio quality

<davexunit>but ludovic is going to be giving a talk at FOSDEM on the 31st.

<davexunit>so in a couple of months we should have a new video :)

<davexunit>_root_: I recommend the FOSDEM talks, as they are pretty good quality

<_root_>yes the sessions are really rich

<davexunit>I wish I could make it FOSDEM...

<davexunit>but I have a lack of time to travel and a fear of airplanes.

<_root_>davexunit: me too; not the second part.

<_root_>bsdcon was fun though

<_root_>bsdcan

<_root_>any manual on how to write our own packages?

<davexunit>_root_: yes, the guix manual is available in info format and online at https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/

<davexunit>in particular, see https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/html_node/Defining-Packages.html#Defining-Packages

<mark_weaver>_root_: https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/guix-ghm-andreas-20130823.pdf might be a helpful tutorial. it's a bit old, but should still be mostly correct

<mark_weaver>they are slides from a talk entitled "GNU Guix: Package without a scheme!", given by Andreas Enge, linked from https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/#talks

<_root_>mark_weaver: thanks slides are very helpful.

<_root_>oh; is the usb image systemd or init-system.

<DusXMT>_root_: it's dmd-based

<DusXMT>gnu.org/s/dmd

<a_e>bavier: Thanks for the pypi importer, it is really useful!

<mark_weaver>iyzsong: I see that you fixed a bug related to icons in thunar. do icons now work for you in thunar? I still see no icons.

<mark_weaver>maybe I'm missing some package or environment variable?

IRC channel logs

2015-01-20.log