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<toothbrush0>tadni`: haha, Guixotic sounds a bit like quixotic to me :p
<tadni`>toothbrush0: It was, supposively proposed by RMS... so, if the show fits. :^P
<toothbrush0>tadni`: i think that'd be super cool/amusing, but i have no dog in this race :)
<tadni`>toothbrush0: Added that it happens to sound like such, in the description. :^)
<toothbrush0>heh ;)
<tadni`>Really, the only names I'm not a fan of on the current list are: germ, gig, and GuixOS. Germ has a kinda negative connotation for most people, not even a joking one. The meaning of gig (guix is guix) is not really reflective to the distro at hand, and GuixOS has the problem of calling itself an OS ... which I can't see RMS being okay with.
<toothbrush0>tadni`: yeah, i had the same vibe with germ
<taylanub>given that I was the one who mentioned GuixOS, feel free to strike it out if nobody else is interested
<toothbrush0>and gig took me a while to grok
<tadni`>taylanub: I mean, it's an unfournate side effect that it has that "OS" component to the name. Especially since, RMS want to be clear that in no way would such a GNU Project make reference it is a complete OS. :^P
<toothbrush0>for GGG, wouldn't the "direct equivalent" then be Guix GNU/Linux? or am i missing something
<a_e>I just added it.
<toothbrush0>last entry
<a_e>I am not sure if it is a joke or serious.
<tadni`>a_e: Ah.
<a_e>Toothbrush: Replace "Debian" by "GNU Guix": We are a GNU package, Debian is not.
<toothbrush0>right, fair enough
<a_e>Replace "GNU/Linux" by "GNU", as we intend to package all GNU kernels.
<toothbrush0>ah, fairer enougher
<tadni`>taylanub: You sure about sansing GuixOS? I don't want to remove it, unless there is express permission from the one who suggested it. Even then, I'm not sure about deleting it. Just mention such a potiental problem, if it happens to get a ton of votes or something. :^P
<taylanub>tadni`: well, do as you wish. I mentioned it, but only because I thought it was a natural fit, not because I like it. and GuixDistro really is quite different from NixOS after all.
<toothbrush0>taylanub: i ask this as a huge noob, but why is that? because it's gnu devs + linux-libre? or other more important details?
<tadni`>toothbrush0: Was that meant for a_e ?
<taylanub>toothbrush0: it's like, NixOS -> GuixOS implies the only difference is Nix -> Guix, when in fact we use a different init system and all
*taylanub goes to bed
<tadni`>taylanub: Where are you globablly again?
<tadni`>taylanub: Also, g'n.
<nkar>GGG is a funny name
<tadni`>I'm hoping we have a formal statement about all of this, by the weekend. Because if not, I'm personally going to be gone for most of the work week -- next weeek.
<tadni`>From RMS, what metrics we are allowed to work in/with, etc, etc.
<tadni`>I'm just kinda hoping we can side with GNUDist, it's really the most practical, logical option, from what I see -- and I came up, or helped with the titles of nearly half of the current suggested distro names. So, it's not like I have a huge nested intrest in it, inherently or anything. :^P
<tadni`>zdavis: Were you the one working on build support for *.iso?
<nkar>anyone familiar with ocaml ecosystem? (ocamldep in particular.)
<nkar>Steap_: ^?
<davexunit>nixpkgs has 11643 packages. boy do we've got a ways to go.
<tadni`>davexunit: How many do we have now? Like near half, maybe.
<davexunit>just over 1000
<davexunit>I'm currently teaching my girlfriend how to use nix
<davexunit>she uses a mac (boo) at work so nix is a good fit since it runs there
<tadni`>davexunit: Well ... how many years old is Nix, compared to Guix?
<davexunit>8, I think?
<tadni`>davexunit: Please say she is somewhat technical ...?
<davexunit>she's a web developer
<tadni`>davexunit: That's at least something.
<davexunit>I'm fighting my war against brew
<davexunit>hey now, I'm a web developer.
<tadni`>tadni: I didn't mean as an insult, I'm saying that at least there is some basis of background knowledge in this spectrum.
<tadni`>Wow.... davexunit *
<davexunit>no offense taken :)
<tadni`>I had the an experience, where a friend was interested in how i use a computer -- and I had to spend 3 hours, introducing tiling wms, termemus, but mostly Emacs and Conkeror.
<tadni`>It was kinda fun, but don't know how much they really got out of it.
<tadni`>They were not technical /at all/ though.
<tadni`>No experience with messing with anything even close to similar.
<tadni`>It was very fun to give them some basic examples, of Lisp though.
<davexunit>yay lisp
<tadni`>I really think -- if you are not tainted by an ALGOL-like lang, or similar, first, Lisp and especially Scheme is really easy to learn for a complete begineer.
<davexunit>I would like to think so.
<davexunit>no idea ifs true, but I want to believe.
<tadni`>He picked up all the basic bits in about an hour, where in C, I think doing the equivilant of several sessions.
<tadni`>Well it's very easy for people learning something new, to want a universal rule and lisp has that. The first thing in an s-expression get evaluated.
<tadni`>Really, I just had to teach them the difference between prefix and infix notation -- and basically Lisp just uses a form of prefix notation for everything, really.
<tadni`>It'd be fun to work on a Guile Introductory Book, for complete begineers to programming.
<tadni`>(define oh-my '(lions tigers bears)) is an example, I'm shocked I haven't seen in any Lisp introduction -- really. :^P
<tadni`>But, this is not really a dicussion to be had on here ... so I'm going to cut it off.
*tadni` does really kinda ramble in-mass, a lot of the time.
<davexunit>heh, the nix installation was messed up
<davexunit>it wouldn't download substitutes, and when I tried to nix-pull it kept complaining about corrupt manifests
<davexunit>oh well
<tadni`>davexunit: Too bad Homebrew, doesn't have a Nix package. :^)
<tadni`>Does it have Guile, actually? That'd be interesting. I know it has Emacs.
<davexunit>yeah it does
<tadni`>The autoloads for Emacs, now is real nice.
<davexunit>oooh I haven't tried that yet.
<tadni`>It needs to be via your user's profile, not root, from what I can tell.
<davexunit>ah, still good though.
<tadni`>Yeah, that was one of my minor annoyances for in the distro thusfar.
<tadni`>That and lack of *.iso generation, but zdavis sounds like he might be working on that.
<tadni`>If gnudist*.iso works with my bios ... I should be able to switch to gnudist on my main box, by 0.9.
<tadni`>Which would just be great. :^)
*davexunit just can't get used to that name
<davexunit>it's too silly
<tadni`>davexunit: I mean, I just see a way to circvumvent the name "GNU Distro" officially. We wouldn't really use it ... in any place, but the actual install image, ideally.
<tadni`>Every other solution, is marketing for the sake of marketing -- and I think it'll be problematic if we ever try to transition to the "GNU Operating System" or even a "canonical implementation".
<tadni`>Like I said though, I either came up with or was a major influence on half of the current suggested names on the wikipage ... so I have no huge bias towards GNUDist sans I think it's the most logical solution.
<tadni`>Yeah, it's a silly name; But it also accurately expresses what it actually is. :^P
<tadni`>davexunit: Anything on the list, that holds your preference?
<davexunit>not really
<davexunit>I'm too picky
<tadni`>davexunit: Any personal suggestions, then?
<tadni`>For what it's worth, I've shown several 3rd parties (5 responded) and they all reacted postively to the name and logo. :^P
<davexunit>I haven't come up with anything
<davexunit>I haven't actually seen the logo
<tadni`>davexunit: My GNUDist logo?
<davexunit>it's pretty cute
<davexunit>clever use of the U and D
<tadni`>davexunit: The point was to "see GNU in U". :^P
<tadni`>I think the name in itself may be a tad bit off-putting ... but I really think the mascot sells it to a fair degree.
<tadni`>davexunit: Would it maybe instill more confidence if I asked more 3rd parties about it? :^P
<davexunit>not sure
*tadni` was considering asking in #gnu, #emacs, etc.
<tadni`>Really though, I think people are making a bigger deal than needed over a portman -- that may imply something lude. Ideally, again, we'd eventually drop the title of GNUDist, to just be "GNU OS" a few years down the line. I think it's easier to drop this minor marketing than trying to go from something like Quixotic, to just 'GNU'.
<mark_weaver>When I hear GNUDist, it makes me think of "nudist".
<tadni`>mark_weaver: Yeah, that is a side-effect and in part a joke, but the fact that people seem to imply (they haven't said directly, but I suspect this is why) that it is in poor taste -- I'm not real sure why, when the logo represents nothing of the sort.
<tadni`>It's just GNU Distro -> GNU Dist -> GNUDist -> Which happens to have that sde effect. :^P
<tadni`>Which from what I can tell from most I've asked, were either neutral or thought it was midly humourous/entertaing.
<tadni`>A GNU is nude, in the wild. :^)
*mark_weaver is not fond of the name GNUDist.
<tadni`>Again, I'm fine with another name -- I'm just worried that if we do ever transistion to be "The GNU System" it might be problematic to switch over to just calling ourselves "GNU". At least with "GNUDist" it's just dropping the Dist and appending an OS. :^P
<tadni`>My favorite of the listed, of just going by names -- is GNU Jitsu, for the meaning behind it. Being some factor of a flexible technique/art.
<tadni`>When translated.
<tadni`>But, that isn't great in-terms of transitioning to GNU OS someday.
<tadni`>Okay ... this might be something! Romeone in #emacs, suggested "gnuro".
<tadni`>Instead of taking the dist from Distro, you take the ro, to append to GNU.
<tadni`>It also ties into neuro, so you can tie thought/cogninition, all that, etc.
<tadni`>But, yeah, you could tie brain-power to geeks, geeks to guix. :^)
<tadni`>And it doesn't have the side effect of being possibly taboo, from what I can tell.
<mark_weaver>Nowhere have I seen RMS rule out the possibility of calling this something simple like GNU OS. He simply hasn't made a decision yet.
<mark_weaver>and indeed, making a decision at this stage is premature.
<mark_weaver>tadni`: I see you writing in various places that RMS is against it, but I haven't seen that.
<mark_weaver>I know I've said this to you before, but it would be good if you were more careful about saying things that you don't know to be true.
<mark_weaver>IMO, at this stage, we need to focus on making our distro better. it's very primitive right now, and not ready to be marketed.
<tadni`>Maybe I need to be clearer, my intent is to say that atm, we are not "The GNU System" and I don't think he would respect us claiming that we were.
<tadni`>mark_weaver: I was asked, by civodul, to compose this list of proposals. This was not my idea, or anything to try to market it in mass. No dumb, it's in Alpha still.
<tadni`>Why I kept pushing in here about GNUDist, is because no-one would tell me /why/ they don't like such a name. I stated I assume because it can be viewed as lude ... but 3 people told me they dislike it in here, at least, and 3 people would not speak up as to say why.
<mark_weaver>tell me a food you dislike, and then explain to me why you dislike it.
<tadni`>mark_weaver: I dislike cheries, because they are too sweet that it's overwhellming to me.
<mark_weaver>okay, sometimes it's easy to explain, but not always.
<tadni`>mark_weaver: Am I wrong to suspect that that it does not have to do with people afraid to speak up and say such a thing could be viewed as lude and some outside individuals may view the projects poorly because of it?
<mark_weaver>I mentioned the "nudist" thing only because it was the problem I knew how to explain.
<mark_weaver>it's not the only reason I don't like it, but I can't easily articulate the other reasons.
<tadni`>mark_weaver: That's fine. But I tried to push dave into a similar respone -- because I suspected his view was similar, but I couldn't get anything out of him in route. civodul, left too soon for me to really pick his brain on the subject.
<tadni`>My point is, if a title is seen by many people in this community to reflect poorly on GNU and Guix, I want to know -- If I'm maintaining a list of such names, I'll strike them if need be.
<mark_weaver>I don't think it's helpful for you to try to "push" on this.
<mark_weaver>I think it's fine to collect ideas and occasionally poke us about it.
<tadni`>But I need to know what people are thinking, and if all people are willing to articulate is one think it's "silly" then it's hard to get such a thing from people in a clear way. :^P
<tadni`>To be clear though, it is not my intention to be overly pushy/aggressive, if that is how I have came off as.
<mark_weaver>I don't know what other people are feeling, but I feel as though you've been too pushy about this lately.
<tadni`>I just want to make sure when it comes to actually presenting such a list, either to the greater community, RMS, or what have you, we don't have something blatantly offensive that I may not have understood the implecations of. And when people say they don't like x, but don't provide a reason (and to your credit, you confirmed my suspicon for at least you) it makes me worry.
<mark_weaver>IMO, choosing names is like creating art. if someone posts some suggested artwork, that's appreciated. if we decline to accept it, and they spend a lot of time trying to get us to articulate why we don't like it, then it starts to feel pushy. to me at least.
<tadni`>But yeah, I probably need to take a week long break off or something -- I think the stress of the approaching finals are probably compounding on me.
<tadni`>mark_weaver: Art is subjective, titles to more-or-less market your system are not.
<mark_weaver>I disagree. IMO, the question of whether a name is good is mostly subjective.
<tadni`>If you are making actual art, you are not trying to appeal to anyone group -- when you market something, giving a name that fits with your target demographic to a point where they are at the very least, not put off is really important. I don't think this comparission works all too well.
<mark_weaver>okay, you're free to disagree. anyway, going afk now.
<tadni`>My general point is though, I often have a hard time understanding what most people find offensive or in poor taste, so deligating to others if they have any direct problem with such a name that I'm all for -- I try to understand why. And when the suspect reason is not that they can't vocalize why they don't like it -- but it just feels they don't want to be mean or offensive to me, I have problems with. If you think it's offensive or
<tadni`>at least in poor taste; Tell me. I want to know people's true feelings or I wouldn't be on about it.
<tadni`>But yeah, I probably more "at fault" on this one than anyone -- and hopefully I can hibernate for a week or-so, after final, and we a lot more "relaxed" thereafter and all that. :^P
<tadni`>mark_weaver: o/
<taylanub>I think Gnudist is a funny rather than credible name, so I would only recommend it in case we use a de-emphasized "code name" for our GNU distribution. ideally no logo (sorry tadni` :P), no stylized name (usually written all-lowercase, in filenames etc.), barely any occurrence at all in user-facing documentation, etc.
<taylanub>I never thought we should use it seriously for anything beyond that...
*alezost is not going to use "gnudist" as he doesn't like this name very much
<taylanub>I should add: since I wish for us to only use a de-emphasized code-name for the distribution and otherwise see it as just "a distribution of the GNU system," I don't feel strongly at all about the choice of code-name. one should view it as a disposable name so to speak, like Squeeze, Wheezy, and Jessie in Debian, although we'll probably stick with it permanently
<taylanub>really my prime wish is to have a strong emphasis on GNU
<Steap_>nkar: not realy :(
<tadni>taylanub: Till we get confirmation from RMS what are designated limits are, any name is irrelevant really. The reason I came up with a stylize image/logo to start for GNUDist, is for the fact that the free-distro.html page requires it, to keep up with it's style system.
<tadni>Again, ideally while we would want to de-empathize this name as much as possible -- I don't see us being able to sell it such a way, were whatever the name of said distro ... will be "sold" as something seperate from 3rd party distros.
<tadni>Unless, we get the official title of "GNU" which I find very unlikely ... and then it becomes a non-issue, because there is a stroing assumption that the "official GNU Distribution" whether it just be a general reference/cannonical implemntation or the deemed "GNU Operating System" itself, there is the expectation this would have more weight than 3rd parties. These would still need to be empathized, but the default "download gnu" link
<tadni>could maybe go to said distribution and have a footer or something, to specify other 3rd party distros.
<tadni>Again, until we actually know what RMS will allot us -- it's all just general speculation.
<tadni>Anyways, I'll pop back in later. It's almost 4am here, and I have some errands to do later today.
<tadni>By for now. o/
<Sleep_Walker>is anyone using guix on IPv6 network?
<Sleep_Walker>nevermind, it was doing crazy things because of host file
<toothbrush0>greetings! does anyone have success stories virtualising guix in VirtualBox?
<toothbrush0>I'm stuck at the point where I need to install `vboxvideo`, the Xorg video driver for VirtualBox
<nkar>toothbrush0: someone tried it. check the irc logs.
<toothbrush0>nkar: alright. Will do.
<toothbrush0>hey tadni`, you seem to be the one who packaged slim :)
<toothbrush0>nkar: hey, so, i've done quite a bit of reading in the irc archives, but nothing concrete :(
<nkar>I don't use virtualbox, sorry.
<toothbrush0>okay, no worries.
<toothbrush0>but you do have X working?
<nkar>no, I have the os installed but don't use it regularly yet.
<toothbrush0>thanks anyhow.
<nkar>try asking on the list perhaps
<toothbrush0>yeah i should subscribe
*toothbrush0 heads over to the subscription page
<Sleep_Walker>I know it will sound silly again, but I can't find how to set the environment
<davexunit>what environment?
<Sleep_Walker>is setting PATH=$HOME/.guix-profile/bin:$PATH really enough?
<Sleep_Walker>using guix packages on top of other distribution
<nkar>yes, that should work
<nkar>it's just a symlink forest
<davexunit>yeah that works
<Sleep_Walker>I think it should be in Guix manual as well
<davexunit>I'm pretty sure it's mentioned in the documentation
<Sleep_Walker>ok, 3.2
<Sleep_Walker>it is
<davexunit>do you think it's in an unoptimal spot?
<Sleep_Walker>well, I read this part already and don't remember and at the same time I wasn't able to find it on mutli-HTML version of documentation
<Sleep_Walker>I got idea to do search on single-page document and found it in the end
<Sleep_Walker>(and again, yes, I spent quite some time looking for that and I obviously needed to ask so I could find it myslef a moment later :)
<davexunit>I find myself in that situation a lot.
<davexunit>I'm curious to know an explanation for that phenomena
<toothbrush0>So, 40mins ago i sent a mail to guix-devel, and it hasn't shown up yet. Is this normal? (i'm a new subscriber, perhaps there's moderation involved?)
<bavier>toothbrush0: typically messages to the list from a new user go through an anti-spamming procedure
<toothbrush0>bavier: ok. my message just landed in my inbox a minute ago ;)
<davexunit>sometimes the mail server is just slow, too.
<davexunit>the FSF/GNU mail server processes a lot of mail.
<toothbrush0>davexunit: i'll try to hold my horses next time ;)
<toothbrush0>i can imagine!
<Sleep_Walker>toothbrush0: I was also nervous about that :)
<toothbrush0>Sleep_Walker: yeah i remember your messages about that, so i wondered if i'd hit the same problem
<toothbrush0>which is why i only complained after 40m :[p
<Sleep_Walker>toothbrush0: there was no problem in my case in the end
<Sleep_Walker>and I even noticed I didn't wrote subject ;b (my own mail rules drops such mails)
<toothbrush0>haha :)
<toothbrush0>civodul: hi!
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<civodul>hey, toothbrush0
<nkar>civodul: o/
<toothbrush0>civodul: i'll jump right in with a question :p do you ever run guix virtualised? if so, what's your preferred way?
<tadni`>civodul: Hey civodul. o/
<tadni`>toothbrush0: What about Slim? I only did the very trivial stuff, for it. :^P
<toothbrush0>tadni`: yeah i'm having issues with Slim.
<toothbrush0>i posted to guix-devel about that a few hours ago
<toothbrush0>although, strictly speaking, the problem probably isn't with slim, but with xorg modules
<tadni`>toothbrush0: Fyi, if this is your first time posting to the ML ... it can take /several hours/ for it to pop up. I don't see it there now.
<toothbrush0>ah. it's arrived in my inbox already, but perhaps it's not in the archives yet.
<Sleep_Walker>I think it arrived already
<civodul>tadni`: thanks for the wiki page!
<civodul>just realize sneek told it on #guile
<tadni`>civodul: Ah, that's a bit odd.
<civodul>toothbrush0: i just replied to your message on the list
<civodul>i use qemu, and almost exclusively via 'guix system vm'
<toothbrush0>civodul: okay, cool. I'm curious!
<tadni`>civodul: Oh it is on there; What's the thread name?
<toothbrush0>civodul: okay, i'll try and have a look at that then.
<tadni`>I was looking for something with "Slim" in it.
<toothbrush0>sorry tadni`, the subject is "Xorg video inside VirtualBox"
<tadni`>civodul: Also, is that a sufficent amount of reccomendations for names? I more-or-less can look into more, actively, until Monday.
<tadni`>toothbrush0: Ah, okay.
<civodul>tadni`: yes, that's good, but there's no strict deadline
<civodul>actually i still don't have the definite "no" from rms, though it's probably implicit
*tadni` may ask around a bit more. He asked in #emacs last night and that's whom suggested "GNURO" as a possible alternative to GNUDist... which never occured to me prior and is a pretty decent idea/alternative. But yeah, assuming we aren't just granted "GNU" staus -- which I don't see likely on any front ... amassing as many semi-viable solutions is probably avantageous.
<tadni`>I can never keep in 3rd person, for long stretches of time. It's too weird.
<tadni`>About 2/3rds into longer posts, I'm already broken out. :^P
*Sleep_Walker understands :b
<nkar>what does gnuro mean?
<toothbrush0>nkar: gnu(dist)ro
<tadni`>toothbrush0: You got it.
<tadni`>Also, someone was trying to link it to sounding like neuro, in-terms of pronucing.
<toothbrush0>..which seems a little pretentious, no?
<tadni`>toothbrush0: Eh, how so? It's less prententious than GNU Wave and GNU Jitsu as I suggested, but people still like these suggestions -- from what I've polled. :^P
<Sleep_Walker>wow, guix pull now gets HTML instead of tar.gz
<tadni`>It's just the "less lude" version of GNUDist, that people seemed to have problems with.
<toothbrush0>Sure. I'm not judging or attempting to make objective statements, it's just how it struck me. Also, guix has nothing to do with neuroscience, right? :p
<civodul>Sleep_Walker: sounds like a bug, or a issue
<toothbrush0>tadni`: * lewd
<civodul>Sleep_Walker: i ran it successfully earlier today, though
<Sleep_Walker>so did I
<Sleep_Walker>on other machine
<tadni`>toothbrush0: If english made sense, it'd be lude -- for the fact, it ties into rude. :^P
*tadni` will brb. Probably in 5 or-so minutes.
<toothbrush0>tadni: Unfortunately English doesn't make sense :p As for ludes: <>
<tadni`>toothbrush0: Okay, Wolf of Wallstreet. :^P
<toothbrush0>Hm? :p
<tadni`>toothbrush0: Ludes. That was a major plot point in that movie.
<toothbrush0>or should that be $ gcc -Wallstreet
<toothbrush0>Ah, i haven't seen it
<tadni`>toothbrush0: I heavily suggest it, just saw it last week. Probably the best movie I've seen all year.
<tadni`>ANYWAYS, offtopic. :^P
<toothbrush0>ok, i'll bear it in mind, anyway
<tadni`>Hm, Guix keeps on trying to force me to compile Icecat from source -- when I try to reconfigure my *.scm as a regular user.
<tadni`>Maybe if it didn't take literal hours on this box, to do so. :^P
<davexunit>perhaps that version of icecat was GC'd on the build farm?
<tadni`>I haven't payed attention to the actual termemu that's running the reconfigure phase closesly, so I don't know if it just times out after x amount of time or not. Keeping a closer eye on it now, to see if I can spot the problem. I'm hoping the subsitute wasn't just randomly deleted by some party or process, upstream though davexunit . I don't know how that would come about.
<tadni`>Okay, yeah, I think this might be the case davexunit.
<davexunit>perhaps you need to guix pull?
<tadni`>It got to it in the config, and didn't even wait a second till it started working on the source.
<tadni`>davexunit: I always do prior to a "system reconfigure".
<tadni`>It passed, right before.
<toothbrush0>should `guix pull` be run as root, i suppose?
<tadni`>Profiles are different between root, are they not?
<tadni`>So if you pull as a non-root user, you wouldn't have the latest?
<tadni`>This is what I understood of the situation.
<toothbrush0>aha, so, the answer is "yes", otherwise you don't avoid the problem you just described?
<davexunit>tadni`: ah okay
<davexunit>toothbrush0: you can run it as your regular user, too.
<davexunit>but yeah, since guix system is run as root, make sure root has an up-to-date guix.
<toothbrush0>ah right, i see
<tadni`>I would just let icecat build ... but I tried last night into this morning and it used up, using up all my memory and causing the build to fail.
<tadni`>Not a huge deal, likely after today -- I'll be off this box, until next Thursday. Maybe Friday.
<toothbrush0>civodul: ah, i see the message has changed from "unresponsive" -> "somewhat slow" :)
<tadni`>davexunit: Fyi, if you want -- you can still submit that patch for those macros, checking my schedule, I won't have a working guix environment on my main box till like the 11th or-so. Not worrying about getting Fedora 21 and Guix going or their, till after finals are over. :^P
<tadni`>on there*
<davexunit>tadni`: I'm a little busy with some other projects at the moment, so feel free to write the patch when you have time :)
<tadni`>davexunit: Yeah, np. Just saying I'm going to be AFK, for near a week. I guess it's not really anything that needs rushed or anything, it's not like 0.9 is a day or two away or anything. :^P
<davexunit>no rush at all.
<tadni`>Talking about some cool stuff that may come in 0.9, anyone hear anything about zdavis' progress on *.iso generation?
*tadni` really hopes that his bios /just/ doesn't like USB-installers and would take a *.iso on actual laser disk. He really wants to run GNU Distro on his main box, and is nearly at that point where that is practical.
<tadni`>But, I have fear that these UEFI bios are just real wonky and will prevent me from being able to run it sufficently. I was unable to run Parabola on that box, without some disc being in it's disc drive at startup...
<zdavis>tadni: I'm still making progress on the iso generation. I am trying to base it on what nix does, now that I finally found where they do it
<tadni`>zdavis: I'm just glad to hear you are still working on it! :^)
<tadni`>This is something I really want to see by Guix 1.0. Shockingly, even outside my usecase ... a /lot/ of people seem to use isos.
<davexunit>zdavis: good to hear! keep hacking the good hack. :)
<zdavis>iso's are sorta the lingua franca of virtual machine programs like virtualbox and vmware
<tadni`>zdavis: Ah, true.
<zdavis>I think it would really lower the barrier of entry for _just trying it out_
<zdavis>So, we'll see how it goes!
<toothbrush0>zdavis: yup. the first thing i did after downloading the image was convert to .vdi for use with VirtualBox
<tadni`>Tsutsukakushi: coi
<Tsutsukakushi>how easy would it be to become a package maintainer for guix?
<toothbrush0>civodul: thanks, i just got your email to guix-devel, i'll try that out!
<Tsutsukakushi>and can guix do source based installs
<tadni`>Tsutsukakushi: Relatively so.
<tadni`>And yes.
<Tsutsukakushi>i'm gonna try it out tomorrow
<Tsutsukakushi>and probably start using it
<Tsutsukakushi>looks pretty good
<tadni`>I was able to start packaging stuff, with no real background of Scheme at the time.
<Tsutsukakushi>and try maintaining some packages
<Tsutsukakushi>if i can
<Tsutsukakushi>nice to hear
<tadni`>I've probably done near ... close to 10 packages now? At least 5.
<civodul>Tsutsukakushi: there's material at on how to get started with packaging, but don't hestitate to chime in if you have any questions
<davexunit>welcome aboard Tsutsukakushi
<Tsutsukakushi>thank you :3
<Tsutsukakushi>where can i find the keys the usb installation medias have been signed with?
<nkar>Tsutsukakushi: on a keyserver
<nkar>try gpg --search-keys '' or some such
<nkar>then check the fingerprint and import it
<Tsutsukakushi>that's not very secure way of adding a key
<nkar>if you know the fingerprint and know that it belongs to the user, it is fine
<Tsutsukakushi>all i have is the id
<nkar>you have to configure gpg to show the entire fingerprint
<Tsutsukakushi>that's all i get if i don't have the key already
<nkar>there's a guide on somewhere
<nkar>just search around
<nkar>fyi, even the entire fingerprint can be spoofed. there's an example on the ietf mailing list, iirc.
<nkar>but no explanation on how it was done
<nkar>ideally, you'd exchange the keys in person
<Tsutsukakushi>good ting to know
<Tsutsukakushi>yeah, but flying to keysigning events would cost a ton
<Tsutsukakushi>with my budget
<nkar>sure, as an additional measure you could verify the hashsum
<civodul>Tsutsukakushi: even if you don't do keysigning, you at least get "TOFU" ("trust on first use")
<civodul>that'll allow you to detect person-in-the-middle attacks in the future
<Tsutsukakushi>nice to know
<civodul>↑ look, isn't alezost a good supporter?
<Sleep_Walker>I successfully rung `guix pull' and have current version in /root/.config/guix/latest
<Sleep_Walker>how to invoke guix now so this version is used?
<civodul>Sleep_Walker: excellent!
<civodul>just type 'guix'
<Sleep_Walker># which guix
<Sleep_Walker>and this one will be used?
<civodul>yes, but it will automatically load .scm files from ~/.config/guix/latest
<civodul>which means that new sub-commands, new options, etc. all become available
<Sleep_Walker>very good
<civodul>nkar: how is Coq going?
<nkar>civodul: thanks for your interest! :) I've touched it a bit, but it needs more work. actually, I'm planning to start working on it in a few minutes.
<nkar>the first thing to do is to port the tricks from nixpkgs
<nkar>I have a question about the nix recipe since I don't know the language
<nkar>civodul: the recipe is in pkgs/applications/science/logic/coq/default.nix what are the setup hook and envHooks?
<nkar>what is being passed to $1 and @?
<nkar>I also noticed that buildFlags corresponds to the targets in the makefile. does nix have a way to specify this kind of thing?
<nkar>or am I misunderstanding its purpose?
<Sleep_Walker>to be able to specify more packages in system configuration config.scm I have to put it not only in package option, but also in use-modules section?
<civodul>grr, flaky internet access
<nkar>civodul: please check the logs to see my questions
<Sleep_Walker>nkar: I'm afraid that he could miss it, check the timing
<civodul>it's at
<civodul>nkar: buildFlags is like #:make-flags i think
<civodul>setupHook/envHook are like our 'search-paths'
<civodul>that's it
<civodul>you should s,/bin/rm,rm and s,/bin/uname,uname, in a snippet
<civodul>(rather than as a build phase)
<toothbrush0>i made a mistake while installing inside a vm, but only discovered after all the downloading etc, which is slow. can i do something like `chroot /mnt ; guix reconfigure ..` to prevent having to redownload everything like with `guix system init .. /mnt` ?
<civodul>if you have not rebooted, it won't redownload what has already been downloaded
<civodul>so just re-run 'guix system init'
<toothbrush0>oh crap, i did reboot ><
<toothbrush0>the thing is, i'd forgotten to do `deco .. cow-store ..`
<toothbrush0>but there is already a broken installation on /mnt
<toothbrush0>so it shouldn't be necessary to redownload everything.
<toothbrush0>oh well
<nkar>civodul: could you remind me what search-paths is
<nkar>ah, that's a phase, it seems
<nkar>ah, no. it's a part of athe package record
<civodul>toothbrush0: yeah, but it won't "trust" what's already on /mnt
<civodul>did you add a lot of things to the 'packages' field?
<toothbrush0>i'd just forgotten to add some modules to initrd
<civodul>nkar: exactly
<toothbrush0>but it still took about an hour
<civodul>an hour to download the base system?
<toothbrush0>uh, i'll look up the exact timestamps, j.a.m.
<toothbrush0>35 minutes, then 41.
<nkar>civodul: native-search-paths vs. search-paths is like native-inputs vs. inputs? like build-time vs. runtime?
<toothbrush0>so not quite an hours
<civodul>nkar: yes
<nkar>civodul: what's the value of $1 in the nix script?
<nkar>current dir?
<nkar>iiuc, it tests whether lib/coq/VERISON/user-contrib exists and is a dir, and adds it to COQPATH, right?
<nkar>when is setupHook invoked?
<nkar>I haven't set the envvar, and my recipe still fails
<nkar>there's a warning after each call to ocamldep