<davexunit>damn, the 0.8 install image doesn't load the necessary module for my ethernet device ***civodul changes topic to 'GNU Guix | http://gnu.org/s/guix/ | channel log: https://gnunet.org/bot/log/guix | things to package: http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/Wishlist | GNU Guix 0.8 is out!'
<nkar>civodul: you're using standalone guix, right? what will you do when you need to install a package which is not a part of the distribution and which is tricky to package? <nkar>congrats on the release, btw <civodul>nkar: as a last resort, i still have an old /nix/store with other apps <civodul>i don't think i have needed it since i've switched <civodul>but really, there's already a few big things like Inkscape, GIMP, AbiWord, etc. <nkar>so you can install nix on top of standalone guix if necessary, correct? <Steap_>and you don't use Gnome, so nothing is tricky to patch <nkar>civodul: there's still no scala, coq, and haskell, iirc. <Steap_>that does feel like a language that would be used by someone interested in type theory, isn't it ? <nkar>civodul: I'm asking because I got a new machine yesterday, and I'm considering using a standalone system, too. hopefully, this'll force me to contribute again. <nkar>Steap_: heard of scalaz? <nkar>briefly, scala done the right way <nkar>Steap_: I don't know how it deals with null strings, etc. since I'm still learning, but at least there's a shift in the right direction. <Steap_>nkar: I think there is a wiki page "somewhere" with a list of stuff to package <Steap_>maybe you could add scala/coq/haskell there <Steap_>not sure whether anyone reads it though <nkar>Steap_: it's on libreplanet <taylanub>I've heard someone say that they heard a GHC developer say that Scala's type system is too much for em to handle. that aside, Scala *tries* to be a "practical" language AFAIK. <civodul>nkar: yes (in my case it was pre-installed) <nkar>civodul: okay, than I'll definitely try a standalone system. <civodul>packaging Coq shouldn't be too difficult <nkar>I'm guessing the major issue will be the IDE. <civodul>Scala needs OpenJDK, which is definitely going to be difficult <civodul>(and not worth it, if you ask me ;-)) <civodul>GHC is difficult, but someone has to work on it <nkar>civodul: we've already talked about GHC, remember? I still want to try to use the bootstrap binaries method that you suggested <civodul>nkar: of course i remember, but one has to continue the work :-) <civodul>i mean, GHC is in Nixpkgs, so it's definitely not impossible <civodul>and we can even steal ideas from there or elsewhere <grumlee>Just saw taylanub post on reddit, but the ftp server is quite slow. Anyone made a torrent oh the 0.8 release ? <grumlee>I'll try too when my actual dl finishes but until then I'm asking <taylanub>don't think Guix had enough testers so far to make that worthwile <grumlee>how many do you think are testing it ? <grumlee>I'll try to build a torrent for the sake of it then <grumlee>seems like binary substitutes are default now <grumlee>making guix far more useful out of the box <civodul>it's the default in the installation image, but still not in the installed system <nkar>civodul: will the servers handle it? <civodul>hydra.gnu.org has been quite stable since it got some more RAM <grumlee>ok, i'm seeding 0.8 .. here's a magnet url magnet:?xt=urn:btih:GLEWHEADZEOPDSPHKVCXRWYH3S7ZWX5M&dn=gnu-usb-install-0.8.x86_64-linux.xz&tr=http%3a%2f%2ftracker.prq.to%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2finferno.demonoid.com%3a3389%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2ftracker.bt-chat.com%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2ftracker.zerotracker.com%3a2710%2fannounce <gp5st>hello. I'm not 100% sure what I'm asking, but does guix have namespacing built in. e.g. in apt, all the php modules are prefixed php5-; I was curious if this was a concept built into guix or if it uses a flat namespace for packages <davexunit>gp5st: we typically use the upstream name of the software as the package name. though you'll see what we use prefixes for python libs, for instance. <iyzsong>so next year, we'll make the 1.0 release! <grumlee>can someone try this magnet url magnet:?xt=urn:btih:GLEWHEADZEOPDSPHKVCXRWYH3S7ZWX5M&dn=gnu-usb-install-0.8.x86_64-linux.xz&tr=http%3a%2f%2ftracker.prq.to%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2finferno.demonoid.com%3a3389%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2ftracker.bt-chat.com%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2ftracker.zerotracker.com%3a2710%2fannounce <grumlee>trying to seed guix 0.8 through bittorrent <davexunit>the release notes appear to be #1 on the HN front page right now <davexunit>probably won't last very long, but I hope it creates some discussion <grumlee>my submission about mechanical harmonic fourrier analyzer never got that lucky *ssad* <grumlee>dmd and deco UI are pretty obscure, not very discoverable <davexunit>grumlee: would you like to help us improve that sometime? <jmd>Why hasn't /topic been updated to announce 0.8 ? <davexunit>probably because civodul isn't here right now <jmd>It's so difficult to get reliable maintainers .... :/ <jmd>davexunit: Why not? Are you filtering emoticons? <grumlee>davexunit: yeah, I'm not freely complaining ;) <grumlee>And I'm tolerant when it comes to user interfaces but I found it too crude even then <jmd>grumlee: Me neither. Every complaint I make comes at a cost. <davexunit>grumlee: dmd needs more love, for sure. guix has a lot of hackers, but dmd only a couple. <jmd>Nobody knows much about dmd. <davexunit>more and more people contributing patches for each release <jmd>I think it has about the same number of hackers as (say) debian. Just less users. <Steap_>You think Guix has as many hackers as Debian ? <davexunit>debian certainly has a lot more. there's a ton of package maintainers. <jmd>Well it does, of course depend on your definition of "hacker". <Steap_>there are more DDs than there are Guix hackers <jmd>But most DDs are not hackers. <grumlee>we all know guix is the chosen one, and thus emerged itself from the binary tarpit <gp5st>are there any distros using dmd and guix by default? <davexunit>just the guix distro, whatever it's name ends up being :) <grumlee>guix needs a protoscheme shell (with parens-less toplevel forms), immutable primitives and goroutines <gp5st>it appears I need another base system first to install it on? <davexunit>(we can't really call it that, though, as of now) <davexunit>because guile has delimited continuations and I've had my own coroutine implementation for about 2 years now. <grumlee>davexunit: I can't say for sure how different goroutines are from vanilla coroutines <davexunit>sorry, gotta go to work. will be back in a bit. <grumlee>maybe it has to do with built-in channels <taylanub>goroutines have their own scheduler AFAIK <grumlee>in it's basic form, it's collaborative concurrency <grumlee>someone agrees with the preemptive side of goroutines <davexunit>there's some actual discussion about guix on HN. <davexunit>NIH, reinventing the wheel, that xkcd comic about standards, etc. <taylanub>davexunit: that negativity is more in response to the negativity against guix :P <_`_>davexunit: seems more misinformed than anything. <davexunit>yeah, guess we just need to kindly inform them. <davexunit>I left a few comments, but I'm now very busy dealing with post-launch fires at work. <bavier`>davexunit: thanks for your responses <_`_>The dichotomy between a “system package/package management” and a “language package/package management” is a bit exaggerated. The “system package manager” could make use of a “language's package manager” to install the software as a “system package”. And that's far from the only approach to that problem. <_`_>Well at least it seems exaggerated to me. <arca_vorago>Just wanted to drop in and say good stuff! Looking forward to the day when I start running fill GNU systems in prod. <arca_vorago>np, just keep up the good work. BSD is dead, long live GNU. ***ChanServ changes topic to 'GNU Guix | http://gnu.org/s/guix/ | 0.8 is out! | This channel is logged, see <https://gnunet.org/bot/log/guix>.'
<jmd>ludo must be at the 0.8 launch party. <jxself>You need to know scheme in order to get in. ***jgay_ is now known as jgay
<jmd>Hydra seems slow. A lot of people must be trying 0.8 <jmd>Somebody needs to give the ghostscript maintainer a kick up the backside. *jxself gives jmd a steel-toed boot <civodul>jmd: it's also that some of us (ahem) committed a bunch of things to master :-) <civodul>"Why not use Nix? Most importantly because it's not GNU; NIH is sadly a real problem for GNU.", write taylanub <jmd>Does that make hydra slow? <davexunit>civodul: the good news: we've been on the front page of HN all day. <davexunit>a lot of folks are skeptical and anti-GNU. no surprise. <taylanub>civodul: I meant it in the sense that we can't trust non-GNU projects to fill central roles in GNU, so sometimes GNU has to make its own version of something... isn't that true? <civodul>it's sounds quite theoritical, but it could be <civodul>i was mostly surprised of Guix being depicted as "NIH" <civodul>i thought the ethical and technical reasons were clearer <civodul>probably that suggests that we've been miscommunicating ;-) <jxself>Huh, taylanub? Non-gnu packages exist. Linux-libre and IceCat are examples of things being brought in. <jxself>And are official GNU packages. The kernel's kinda important. :) <taylanub>being official GNU packages is what I mean. <jxself>Yeah, those are both official GNU packages. <civodul>BTW, i spent 4 years hacking on Nix and 2 years hacking on Guix <taylanub>civodul: as much as I like Scheme, I can't blame someone when they disapprove of forking/remaking something merely to do it in a different programming language. (then again, when it's Perl/C++ v. Scheme, that might actually be technically justified :P) re. the ethics, that's actually exactly what I mean: non-GNU projects can't be trusted to uphold the ideals in the long term (even if they're GPL <taylanub>licensed for the time being), so GNU somehow has to make its own version... i.e. when I say "NIH is a problem for GNU" I don't mean it as in "it's a problem that GNU remakes things due to NIH," I mean it as in "things not being invented(*) at GNU is sadly an actual problem for GNU, i.e. NIH actually applies to GNU as a valid reason to remake something" (*) invent is of course the wrong term; "be <civodul>well yeah, GNU started as "NIH" on purpose, so to speak <civodul>but ok, i see your point, just found the "GNU is NIH" thing a bit offensive on a first read <taylanub>indeed I see it now, am posting a clarification :\\ <taylanub>I forget that NIH simply has negative connotations <sirgazil>civodul: I won't be able to help with the Web site design after all. Sorry for that, but I have to focus on other stuff right now. I hope to come back to help GNU in the future :) *sirgazil is Felipe López <civodul>sirgazil: np, thanks for all your work! <civodul>it was more than what i would have hoped for ;-) *davexunit thinks about creating a repository of pre-made guix configurations for servers <davexunit>like a configuration to create a working minetest server <civodul>although, well, there's perhaps a few things lacking for many use cases <davexunit>one my longer term goals is to create a config for GNU mediagoblin so that it's easier for people to self-host. <civodul>nothing precise in mind, but for instance i haven't gotten around to writing that mcron service <davexunit>I should write a minetest service for starters <davexunit>if my ethernet device isn't listed in the output from ifconfig, does that mean the relevant kernel module hasn't loaded? <zdavis>I had trouble getting the network up as well, it may be worth a mention in the quick-start guide