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*davexunit continues to write a ton of python packages
<davexunit>this is going to be a massive patchset.
<davexunit>I hope I've gotten enough python testing libraries out of the way that unit test suites won't hold me up anymore.
<jxself>Thanks, davexunit.
<davexunit>I need to count, but I feel like I have 20 or so python libraries packaged now.
<davexunit>the only thing they really need is a proper synopsis and description.
<jxself>I added PyBitmessage to the LibrePlanet wiki.
<davexunit>cool :)
<jxself>More people should use BitMessage.
<davexunit>I haven't used it
<jxself>Mine just sits there running and waiting...
<davexunit>hmm, sounds neat
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<Ulrar>I'm trying to install guix and the guix system init says that is unresponsive
<Ulrar>Is that only me ?
<civodul>Ulrar: it just means that is a bit slow, which is unfortunately often the case these days
<civodul>that's no showstopper, though
<Ulrar>civodul: Indeed, just started working
<Ulrar>So I tried to reprocude the configuration in 6.2.1 of the documentation, and I get an unbound-variable #f "Unbound Variable: ~S" (%base-file-systems) #f)
<civodul>Ulrar: that's in the installed system, right?
<civodul>there's a bug: on the installed system, you should run 'guix pull' first
<civodul>because the installed system has a version of Guix that is older, and lacked %base-file-systems
<Ulrar>Oh okay
<Ulrar>Good to know, thanks
<tadni_>civodul: After guix pull, make sure that you grab the latest guix too via "guix package -i guix".
<tadni_>kaernyk: Morning.
<Tsyesika>morning folks :)
<Tsyesika>no no!
<Tsyesika>afternoon folks :P
<tadni_>Tsyesika: Monring.
<tadni_>Tsyesika: 6am here.
<Tsyesika>12 here
<Tsyesika>i never know if it's am or pm then it's 12 but i'll just use real time (24h) :P
<leth>1am = 01, 12am = 00, 1pm = 13 12pm = 12, makes sense doesn't it.
<Tsyesika>huh? :P
<leth>i must confess that the last part was sarcastic.
<tadni_>leth: 24 hour time isn't used commonly in the US, used really in the military. So much so it's commonly refered to as "Military Time".
<Tsyesika>yeah i'm aware :P over here it's used tons train stations, phones, computers, pretty much any digital clock will give you it in 24h
<leth>tadni_: i'm not american, so 24h time is what i use by default.
<Tsyesika>^ same
<leth>tadni_: the p.m. a.m. system isn't much used on earth.
<tadni_>leth: Yeah, we (Americans) are so used to using our own standards, even if they're old and depreceated that it's odd to agkowledge it isn't used much anywhere else. Like the Imperial System.
<tadni_>F insteah of Celsius.
<leth>tadni_: officaly you also use the metric system.
<tadni_>leth: We do? It's not taught in public schools, outside of science class. Non-uni level math classes all teach imperial.
<leth>the US has never been much for going along with the rest of the world.
<Tsyesika>one thing i noticed when i was in the US is signs don't seem to use yards?
<tadni_>Tsyesika: Yeah, we don't.
<Tsyesika>instead of like 300 yrds it says 900 feet (well the ones i saw made were at 1000s)
<Tsyesika>i found that odd
<Tsyesika>over here yrds are used a lot
<leth>tadni_: you can read about it here
<tadni_>Meds are about the only thing I've seen on a regular basis.
<civodul>tadni_: indeed
<civodul>(i was referring to "guix package -i guix")
<Ulrar>Well it's running now
<Ulrar>Takes a while
<Ulrar>Is the guix pull supposed to stop for that long on "The following derivations will be built : [...]" ?
<Ulrar>Is it building on background ?
<civodul>yes, it's building Guix in the background
<civodul>well, downloading it first, and then building it
<civodul>it'd be nice to have some progress report
<Ulrar>Okay, as long as it's not freez, I can wait
<DusXMT>civodul: For that network problem I'm having, I think, like you said, that it tried to start it before the kernel even detected it. Now that I booted my system, it started okay, but the time before, I scrolled up and saw that ifconfig returned "No such device or address" or a smimilar error
<civodul>DusXMT: ok, bummer :-/
<DusXMT>If a library has the word `lib' in its upstream name, is the guix package of it supposed to keep it?
<alezost>DusXMT: I think so: there are many "lib..." packages
<civodul>see "Package Naming" in the manual
<davexunit>morning #guix
<davexunit>trying to put together a patchset for a ton of python libraries.
<civodul>happy birthday davexunit! :-)
<civodul>today is the right day ;-)
<davexunit>I haven't gotten anywhere close to packaging everything that mediagoblin needs, so I've decided to stop and make clean commits for what I have.
<davexunit>I went down quite the rabbit hole with this one.
<davexunit>civodul: did you see that we created a Guix package wishlist on
<civodul>davexunit: nope, but that's cool!
<civodul>should mail it to the list
<davexunit>should help when people stop by and are wondering what to package.
<davexunit>civodul: I will do that.
***civodul changes topic to 'GNU Guix --- --- guix.el merged: --- things to package:'
<taylanub>why do we need the concept of "outputs"? couldn't we just use separate packages? it seems to introduce unnecessary complexity.
<civodul>how would you do that?
<civodul>things are unsually unrelocatable
<taylanub>couldn't a recipe with extra outputs just result in extra packages?
<civodul>do you mean "package" objects? or store directories?
<taylanub>package objects, I presume. e.g. what's in the first column in 'guix package -A' output
<taylanub>if that'd be too big of a change at this point, then it doesn't matter I guess, but so far my experience with "outputs" has only been (minor) annoyances :)
<civodul>i think technically there's no other way to achieve that
<civodul>now, perhaps the APIs or UIs could be improved in some way
<bavier>I like the package wishlist wiki page
<davexunit>bavier: :)
<bavier>seeing haskell on the list reminds me that I should share some of the (unsuccessful) packaging work I've done on it.
<Ulrar>bavier: would be great, yes
<Ulrar>I was thinking of xmonad
<bavier>Ulrar: xmonad was my motivation too
<civodul>GHC is tricky, Nikita tried a while back
<Svetlana>would we like to add "let's indicate which DEs gui apps integrate with nicely" to the list, so that people have a clearer idea of which DEs they do /not/ integrate with nicely and end up with a better-looking desktop? :-)
<davexunit>soooo I just tallied up the python libraries that I packaged... 31.
<davexunit>yeah, more than I thought!
<davexunit>so I created 31 commits, one for each new library. I don't want to spam the list with a 31 count patchset, though.
<tadni_>Home early. :^J
<tadni_>I think it might be a good idea to bring up the wiki page for desired packages, at the FSD hackathon.
<Steap_>davexunit: that seems ok to me
<civodul>davexunit: me too
<davexunit>will do, then.
<davexunit>tadni_: sure, we can mention it. :)
<Steap_>davexunit: but y ou really need to post your script
<Steap_>so that we can integrate it in Guix
<davexunit>that's next on my list
*tadni_ adding xmonad to wishlist.
<tadni_>I think the wishlist is up to 40 entries.
<jxself>Make it bigger. :)
<tadni_>jxself: Working on it. Just added an Education section with Anki.
<Steap_>davexunit: that's just *the bomb* :)
<tadni_>Running out of things to list, without resorting to searching through distro package lists.
<jxself>I have more things. I'm adding stuff I use on my server (Postfix, Dovecot, SpamAssassin, etc.))
<tadni_>jxself: Oh, neat!
<Svetlana>goldendict and stardict are missing on that page too
<jxself>Not sure what category procmail shoulod go into.
<jxself>er should
<davexunit>Steap_: repo for pypi2guix
<Ulrar>tadni_: Well you can add weechat, rxvt ..
<Ulrar>Lots of things
<Steap_>davexunit: nice
<Ulrar>zsh seems to be missing too
<Steap_>davexunit: i think we could even read requirements.txt and get the needed inputs
<davexunit>Steap_: I have that listed in the "future improvements" section of the readme :)
<tadni_>zsh is there.
<tadni_>Check under shell.
<Ulrar>oh yeah, my bad
<Steap_>davexunit: nice
<civodul>tadni_: make sure to add Glean, the Guile-powered Anki-like thing :-)
<tadni_>civodul: Link? Never heard of it!
<civodul>i don't even know where it's hosted
<civodul>one had to be at the GHM to hear about it :-)
<tadni_>civodul: Talk, or no?
<civodul>sneek: later tell atheia hello, where is Glean? :-)
<civodul>there was a talk, but it's not on-line yet, i think
*tadni_ is looking forward to it!
<davexunit>yeah, that sounds awesome
<davexunit>I am awaiting all of the cool GHM talks.
<DusXMT>Okay, got all of Abiword's dependencies packaged, time to see if it builds
<tadni_>What should Bluez be under? Hardware?
<davexunit>DusXMT: woo!
<davexunit>okay, sending patch set to guix-devel
<davexunit>grrr why is git send-email CCing myself.
<tadni_>There's now 20 different cats on the wishlist.
<tadni_>"Hardwarish" needs a better name ...
<tadni_>Alsamixer doesn't work on GNU distro.
<tadni_>"cannot open mixer: No such file or directory"
<davexunit>patches sent.
<davexunit>I hope I didn't screw up all the packages so horribly that I have to re-do them all.
<tadni_>davexunit: Where did you send my cat?
<DusXMT>okay, I got too excited too quick, seems that there's two more optional dependencies which I think are essential
<davexunit>got kind of carried away there.
<davexunit>tadni_: hahaha that took me a few seconds to get
<davexunit>well played
<tadni_>davexunit: I've been up since midnight, so I'm a bit giggle/punhappy.
<tadni_>I was in my easy-mode Intermediate Algebra class, and my teacher was coercing my class for an answer and someone loudly and proudly proclaimed "Parable" ... when they meant parabola.
<tadni_>I started dying. I laughed for probably 2 minutes before I settled again.
<ijp>thus ends the parable of the parabola
<tadni_>I feel so bad for that Prof, he's so excited and wants all his students to be excited -- but they never are.
<DusXMT>The goffice that comes with guix is too new for abiword. Is it worth it getting an older version, or should I ignore it? (It's an optional dependency)
<DusXMT>If so, then I'll also probably put it in its own .scm file (other than putting it into gnome.scm like gnumeric), since then it doesn't have much to do with Gnome, other than the fact it uses GTK
<tadni_>DusXMT: I thought Gnumeric and Abiword were part of "Goffice"? You could make a goffice.scm file that contains the two.
<davexunit>yes, better to group packages in modules than make a new module for each package.
<tadni_>Did anything happen with GNOME Ease?
<DusXMT>tadni_: Goffice is a library that abiword can optionally use, I think for plugins from programs like gnumeric, but the version it ships is too new for the newest abiword
<tadni_>Who beat me to adding gnucash? :^)
<tadni_>I guess they just call it gnome-office.
<DusXMT>I need document editing on GNU, I'll just go on and make it build without goffice, I'll let you figure out the rest if you find you need the library linked in :)
<tadni_>DusXMT: Fair enough.
*tadni_ might mockup a gui-installer for GNU soon.
<tadni_>Still need to make some mockups for a more modern GNU logo.
<tadni_>Possibly/Probably Guile too.
<tadni_>Okay, taking nap for now probably.
<paroneayea>davexunit: packaging all of mediagoblin's libraries? a rabbit hole? what could you possibly mean ;)
<davexunit>paroneayea: I just submitted 31 patches for python packages!
<davexunit>and I'm not even close to being done!
<wopr14>Is it possible starting from a live cd to bootsrap and build a guix system? Similar to that how you build a gentoo system. Can you point me to the section in the docs where this is explained, please?
<wopr14>"6.1 System Installation" is an install of a binary system, but as I have a running system (my live cd) I do not need that.
<wopr14>"2.2 Setting up the deamon" does not describe how to proceed after the environment setup.
<civodul>woow, i have many unread messages in my guix mailbox :-)
<davexunit>civodul: 31 of those are my fault
<civodul>it's not a "fault" :-)
*davexunit notes minetest on the wishlist
<davexunit>only 2 missing dependencies, one of which I already have a package recipe for in a local branch. :)
<davexunit>let's do this.
<DusXMT>This is strange, for some reason, abiword's build system wants to build a static binary and no dynamic one. There's an option to disable the static binary, but there's no option to enable the dynamic one (it reports them both off after passing)
<DusXMT>Oh well, I guess it doesn't matter as you'd need to recompile it to get new libs in either way, because of Guix's design.
<waxysubs`>it does still matter, because when shared libraries are used, only one copy of the shared library needs to be in memory no matter how many running programs are using it.
<waxysubs`>DusXMT: ^^
<DusXMT>waxysubs`: true...
<DusXMT>Hopefully I can figure it out once I look into the configure script, right now I'm trying to get it to even compile, the code is somewhat old and needs some patching
<davexunit>hmmmm the cmake build system is just unable to find the include paths to some libraries and my build is failing :(
<davexunit>and I have no way to set them manually that I can find
<Ulrar>Maybe you'll need to rewrite the cmake modules things
<davexunit>Ulrar: yeah I think you're right
<davexunit>I don't know anything about cmake
*davexunit finally got minetest compiling
<davexunit>cmake sucks
<davexunit>tadni_: the FSD meeting is going on in #fsf right now
<davexunit>yay, minetest is running now!
<bavier>davexunit: some of the python modules you added already exist in python.scm
<davexunit>bavier: wait really?
<bavier>e.g. pycrypto
<davexunit>I could have sworn that I checked.
<davexunit>damn, sorry.
<davexunit>bavier: thanks
<davexunit>I will drop that patch.
<bavier>maybe that the only one. I'll take another look
<DusXMT>there should be something like $ guix package redundancy-check
<davexunit>DusXMT: yeah, that would be cool.
<davexunit>I have 3 more patches to send to the list: adding openal, irrlicht, and minetest.
<DusXMT>darn, why do apis have to get deprecated...
<leth>because we learn better ways to do things? or it was badly designed in the first place.
<bavier>there are a few TODOs in python.scm that can be resolved with davexunit's patches :)
<davexunit>bavier: yeah I remember seeing a TODO about nose and such
<davexunit>I think I'm all done submitting packages for the day
*civodul tirelessly spams the list
<davexunit>thanks for the prompt feedback on my massive patch dump civodul and bavier.
<Ulrar>davexunit: Never used it much, pretty much only on school projects
<Ulrar>Didn't seem that great, yeah
<DusXMT>didn't use what? (guesses python, isn't sure)
<davexunit>civodul: re: all the test frameworks - I know! I couldn't believe how many slightly different testing frameworks I ran into.
<davexunit>every library seemed to use a different set of them.
<ijp>writing a testing framework is something basically everyone does at least once
<civodul>davexunit: yeah that's completely crazy
<civodul>do Python people actually write tests, or just test frameworks? :-)
<davexunit>both, it seems
<Ulrar>DusXMT: cmake
<bavier>davexunit: np
<davexunit>civodul: I'll try set-path-environment-variable for minetest. I must admit that I was wrestling with this build for a long while before I did that CPATH hack.
<civodul>i can imagine
<davexunit>even with pkg-config the cmake script couldn't find the headers.
<davexunit>it found the shared libs, but not the headers
<civodul>cmake is a nightmare
<davexunit>and people say autotools is hell...
<DusXMT>it's because they just dive in and expect not to drown
<DusXMT>I have a suggestion: Since all builds are single-time in Guix, wouldn't it be more efficient to disable dependency tracking by default on GNU-style packages? It's only really useful when you're actually programming in the source tree without cleaning, and disabling it could slightly speed up builds
<davexunit>this has been a fun hack day. :)
<davexunit>soon I will go out for a nice dinner uptown. I will probably fix and push the python packages tomorrow.
<civodul>davexunit: lots of hacking, indeed; enjoy the evening!
<civodul>DusXMT: i think there was a reason why gnu-build-system.scm doesn't use --disable-dependency-tracking by default
<civodul>but i forgot
<davexunit>I didn't even get around to guix-web today.
<DusXMT>ah, okay then, won't bother with it anymore then
<civodul>DusXMT: it uses --enable-fast-install, provided by libtool
<DusXMT>I hope to get abiword ready for tomorrow, I think it should compile now, but there's still some fine-tuning that needs to be done
<civodul>maybe we should do a hackathon on Sep. 28-29, like last year?
<civodul>or rather 27-28
<davexunit>that would be cool
<DusXMT>I'd probably participate :)
<DusXMT>Just so we're clear, what exactly is a hackathon?
<civodul>if everyone is as productive as davexunit, the distro could be finished on the 28th :-)
<civodul>DusXMT: just a time where we all hack, wherever we are
<civodul>on Guix, i mean
<davexunit>civodul: heh :P
<DusXMT>sounds fun
<civodul>people usually do that physically
<civodul>but that'd be difficult here ;-)
<DusXMT>Yeah, I've heared the OpenBSD guys do those sometimes, that's why I was asking (since this is slightly different)
<mark_weaver>davexunit: if it would be reasonable to ask the users of this macro to place these special expressions within another macro, then you could use syntax parameters. in general, macros cannot properly scan an expression for subforms, because it cannot understand the syntax in general.
<sneek>Welcome back mark_weaver, you have 1 message.
<sneek>mark_weaver, alezost says: I saw you wanted to get rid of Geiser's "M-." binding. It can be done like this: (eval-after-load "geiser-mode" '(define-key geiser-mode-map (kbd "M-.") nil)) for .scm files and (eval-after-load "geiser-repl" '(define-key geiser-repl-mode-map (kbd "M-.") nil)) for Geiser REPL.
<mark_weaver>davexunit: oh, and happy birthday! :)
<davexunit>mark_weaver: thanks!
<davexunit>I think I'm going to punt on the macro. It was just a curiosity I wanted to explore for a bit.
<mark_weaver>alezost: thanks. I was aware of that option, although in some other cases I like Geiser's binding. ideally Geiser would be improved to handle these cases, but in the meantime I can live with M-x find-tag :)
<mark_weaver>davexunit: if at some point you'd like to describe what you're trying to do at a higher-level, I could think about how it could be approached. however, if you want to celebrate your birthday in some other way, that would be most understandable :)
<mark_weaver>great work on pypi->guix and all of those python packages, btw. very efficiently done!
<davexunit>mark_weaver: heh, I'm just waiting for my girlfriend to get home from work at the moment, so I'm gonna keep hacking until then. :)
<davexunit>mark_weaver: thanks! it was quite the sprint.
<civodul>howdy mark_weaver!
<mark_weaver>hi civodul!
<mark_weaver>civodul: I've been slow to get it done, but there's actually another CVE for glibc that I should apply to core-updates before it is rebuilt again or merged.
<mark_weaver>although it seems like we won't be able to do that until we have more disk space anyway.
<civodul>mark_weaver: ooh right, i had almost forgotten about that
<civodul>mark_weaver: re disk space, things are "less bad" now
<civodul>i run "nix-store --optimise" to completion, and with the auto-deduplication on by default, it seems to grow less quickly
<civodul>well, there's been less activity also
<mark_weaver>I restarted the queue runner a few days ago when I noticed that there was 25G free. not sure what the current situation is. I've been doing it by becoming you, attaching to your screen, and then launching the process from within the first screen. is that reasonable?
<civodul>ahah :-)
<civodul>well, yes
<civodul>we shouldn't make our sysadmin practices public ;-)
<mark_weaver>heh, were you wondering what happened there, or if your memory was faulty? :)
<mark_weaver>heh, yeah, I guess not :)
<civodul>yeah, i wasn't sure what happened :-)
<civodul>ok, good night/day!
<mark_weaver>good night!