***Steap_ is now known as Steap
***tim23 is now known as t6i6m6
<t6i6m6>hello, i want to report a successfull installation from the 0.7 bootable image <t6i6m6>but unfortunately, when i try 'guix system reconfigure /etc/config.scm' guix responds '... unbound variable ~S) %base-file-systems <davexunit>t6i6m6: great that you got it installed! I think you're running into the same bug that everyone has been running into. <t6i6m6>cant copy and paste because i cant ssh onto the machine now <DusXMT>t6i6m6: by default, the system comes with an old version of guix <davexunit>it's actually a hard problem because of the security features. <davexunit>I wish we had written a quick guide to workaround this <DusXMT>try running guix pull, if that fails, you'll have to install the newest guix from git or the tarballs <davexunit>guix pull will fail unless you set a certain env var to prevent git from checking ssl certs <DusXMT>I thoughit it failed at compiling smalltakl.scm? (or at least it did for me, some time ago) <davexunit>but you set that var, run 'guix pull', 'guix package -i guix', and 'guix system reconfigure foo.scm', all as root. <davexunit>I haven't experienced build issues, but maybe. <t6i6m6>ah yea, it seems that it does something <arianvp>is guix just a package manager? or could I slap it on linux and use it similarly to nixos? <davexunit>it's more than just a package manager, but yes, you can install it on any GNU/Linux distro and use it, just like Nix. <DusXMT>arianvp: You can install it as a standalone operating system, so far the easiest way is using the USB image <DusXMT>or you could also install it from a wokring setup with guix installed on a different partition <arianvp>static scoping and lexical scoping is the same if I recall correctly. <arianvp>So what was the motiviation for guix? why not just use nix? <davexunit>our maintainer ludovic could explain this better, but since he's not here I'll give a quick explanation. <davexunit>nix is really great. but there are a few things that we consider issues. the first being that they invented a programming language instead of using an existing general purpose language. <davexunit>we use Guile Scheme because we can write in a purely functional style, like the Nix language, and we can use macros to create a domain specific language for describing package recipes. <Svetlana>davexunit: did you remember what to do with gnu-disk-image not found thing? <davexunit>and additionally benefit from all of the other features of Guile for free. <davexunit>Guix uses the Nix daemon, but replaces all of the frontend stuff and the programming language used. <davexunit>Nix uses Bash scripts to describe the build process, Guix uses Guile. <davexunit>the other important issue is that NixOS distributes nonfree software. Guix provides a fully free distribution of GNU/Linux. <davexunit>we use a deblobbed kernel, linux-libre, instead of linux. <arianvp>And if people decide they want non-free stuff, would they just be able to for example add the nixpkgs repository to their package sources? or are the repositories incompactible <davexunit>they are compatible to an extent. the low level package format is the same. that is, packages installed via nix are compatible with guix. <davexunit>you couldn't use the guix client to install a package written in the Nix language, though. <davexunit>you could write guix packages for nonfree software, but we don't include them in our distro. <arianvp>Learning Scheme/Guile seems not too hard. I'll get a copy of SICP somewhere. <arianvp>Is there a GNU Emacs version that is Guile based? <arianvp>I don't feel like learning two lisps. <taylanub>arianvp: EmacsWiki -> GuileEmacs -> bottom of page <taylanub>I just built it on OS X, but it aborts on startup :( <arianvp>> As of the end of GoogleSummerOfCode 2014 <davexunit>arianvp: guilemacs seems to be on its way, but it will be awhile. also, emacs extensions will still be written in elisp. <arianvp>but I guess there will be some interop with elisp and guile possible, right. <taylanub>davexunit: why would they still necessarily be written in elisp? <arianvp>but new extensions could be written in guile, I hope? <taylanub>arianvp: it has an `eval-scheme' for example, which works because scheme data types are also elisp data types, so the return value of the scheme evaluation can simply be used in elisp ... <davexunit>taylanub: well, I think right now the reason would be a political one. to not fragment the community, as the opponents of guilemacs fear. <davexunit>of course I think a world where all elisp was replaced with guile would be a glorious one. <taylanub>davexunit: was there someone besides Nic Ferrier who raised concerns about the community splintering? <davexunit>I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure it was more than one person. <davexunit>I just think the transition needs to be slow. getting elisp running on guile is a major win. <arianvp>the scheme report is such a joy to raed. <arianvp>I'm working on a purely functional subset of scheme to learn haskell <arianvp>it's really fun though. and learning scheme at the same time doing it. <ijp>ah, you're reading that "make your own scheme" book <arianvp>ijp: Yes. but my code is not based off of it. <arianvp>trying to do it in a bit more haskelly way. <arianvp>that book doesn't implement lexical scoping, for example <taylanub>arianvp: previously I said Emacs aborts; apparently that's only when I use -nw; now it runs with an X window on XQuartz (X11 server for OS X) <taylanub>startup still takes eons, maybe I have to compile the .el files manually? didn't happen during the emacs build <davexunit>"We might not have reproducible builds yet, but Nix is closer to having them than Guix" <davexunit>the reason "is that while Guix uses the Nix daemon and thus derivations (and thus build processes) are pure once generated, the process for generating them from the Scheme code is not guaranteed to be so, given that the Scheme code can do practically anything." <Steap>how do we not have reproducible builds ? <davexunit>just thought I'd share a comment that bothered me on HN. :) <davexunit>I usually plug Guix when folks are talking about Nix, and this is what I got in response. <Steap>davexunit: so, Nix builds are not reproducible either ? :p <taylanub>yeah, I meant to say, HN is just being its usual self? :) <davexunit>not bit reproducable, which is true. still working on that. *tadni_ wonders if a scheme shell well gain any relevance on the GNU distro. <tadni_>I am pretty sure guile has a fork. <DusXMT>probably, I've been unable to use substitutes since a couple days ago <ijp>just waiting for its new heads to grow back <tadni>Yeah, I've not been able to build on my testbox for about a day and a half, from substitutes. <waxysubs`>hydra ran out of disk space again. still waiting for the fsf syadmin to give us more space (asked them two weeks ago) <jxself>I'm sure it's hard, since there is only 1 sysadmin left to do everything. <DusXMT>One sysadmin, for the entire fsf? <davexunit>I work the sysadmin queue, too. I have seen the tickets from ludo and mark about hydra. <davexunit>our queue has a lot of open tickets and each week we set goals to get the ticket count a bit lower than it was the previous week. <davexunit>the good news is that hydra will be getting more space. <jxself>Yeah - Handling tickets at a rate faster than they are coming in is probably a good thing. :) <DusXMT>the abd news is, my pentium 3 is still compiling :) <davexunit>jxself: it's hard to keep up with how fast they come in! <jxself>I can imagine but if the rate of handling falls below the rate they come in then the backlog gets bigger... <jxself>Yeah, a P3. You haven't run out of RAM or something yet? <davexunit>the ticket count is going down, albeit slowly. <davexunit>we're in way better shape than we were a couple of months ago. <DusXMT>jxself: It's maxed out at 512M, and I have 4gigs of swap <DusXMT>Just upgraded the hard drive, so I can start getting back into Guix, just installing the thing <DusXMT>My netbook, which is where I was mostly messing around with guix, officially died <Steap>Is it your "real PC", or do you just use it for Guix ? <DusXMT>My "real PC"... This is what I get for still baing at highschool. It can do all I need though, after this disk upgrade