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2014-08-11.log
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<tadni>So, #emacs is dicussing using the GNUS/Emacs Splash Screen Logo as GNUS new Logo. <tadni>I think the FSF needs to just hire a graphic designer to come up with some mockups, or something. Thatbeing said, I don't hate Emacs' spladh screen. *tadni sees if he can convience a friend to doing some mockups for free. <tadni>I do think image is something that the GNU project REALLY needs to work on if we ever want it to get even relatively mainstream. <tadni>A new gnu.org, logo, and GNU shipping GNOME will do loads -- me thinks. <tadni>All of which will take time and work, but given 2-3 years ... I think we'll have a solid product. <davexunit>I agree, our "marketing" needs to be better. <davexunit>I think the GNU system will be pretty damn solid, too. it's certainly being built on a rock solid foundation ;) <svetlana>it is, like linux desktop, failing in one thing: ability of desktop apps integrate with the de well. gnome apps don't shine on gnustep, and vice versa. <tadni>svetlana3: Meh, GNOME3 is doing something that is radically different from the traditional WIMP metaphor of computing. <svetlana3>It's not just it. The freaking Firefox itself is doing something weird (i.e. menus are in the window and not outside, like gnustep apps' ones are.) <tadni>svetlana3: That just sounds like Windowmaker problem. <svetlana3>yeah, it can't force such applications to behave. what else would you use to get consistent look? <svetlana3>that is one of things killing the free desktop. <tadni>svetlana3: Use applicationd built around and for the GNUStep environment? <svetlana3>I'm also thinking that: "each application needs to be built for each environment". i.e. when you package gimp or maxima, you have to build it /for/ gnustep. <tadni>svetlana3: I don't think it would be easy to just "GNUStepinize" an app. <svetlana3>firefox's (or gnuzilla's) own interface is in xml for instance. <svetlana3>they hardcode in xml and css where the scrollbars and menus are located. *davexunit has never used gnustep <tadni>svetlana3: I thought it used gtk? <tadni>davexunit: It's the backend it Windowmaker. <davexunit>for addressing the needs of casual computer users, anyway. <tadni>davexunit: For the general/default GNU DE? <svetlana3>I don't know where the border is. I just know xml is how it is. the markup. the interface source code. I can see it, if I install dom inspector - every menu and button in xml. <svetlana3>I would ideally like each application packaged for both gnustep and gnome. <svetlana3>so that we support 2 DEs and people can switch easily. <tadni>svetlana3: Default to GNOME, and offer custom config.scm based spins. <svetlana3>packaging each app for 2 DEs would be a smart thing for desktop users to see and use. <svetlana3>then you have to package gnustep apps for gnome. maybe. <davexunit>the applications should just work regardless of DE, like they would on debian <tadni>svetlana3: Again, I don't think it's as easy to port GTK apps to GNUStep. <tadni>davexunit: They want the same exact interaction you would expect on a GNUStep based enviroment with GTK apps. <tadni>Like GTK apps acting like GNUStep apps, if I understand them right. <svetlana3>on mac desktop for example, everything looks smooth and the same. they support one thing until the blunt completeness... and here, we have two DEs, and /every gui app/ only looks pretty on one of them. <svetlana3>on the other, it works and functions, but stands out by uglier look. <tadni>svetlana3: I think the number one goal should be providing the most useful desktop to the greatest number of people and GNOME is a much better bet than GNUStep on this end. We could of course supprt other "spins" of the distro though that has a GNUStep spin, a KDE Spin, a LXDE spin, etc,etc. <svetlana3>yeah, a package info should contain details about which DEs it's been tested with maybe. <tadni>svetlana3: We cussently have no DE packaged under GNU. Seeing that GNOME is a GNU project though and one that is very mature -- will likely make it the default desktop. <svetlana3>which DEs it integrates with /well/. maybe having this sort of info could help porting things over. <svetlana3>no other packaging format has this field in package info. it could probably be nice to have. <tadni>svetlana3: Maybe, but such a feature is long thought away. Like I said, we don't even have 1 DE packaged yet ... well unless you count Emacs. ;^) <svetlana>i hope someone actually looks at them a bit closer and makes some sense of it as i dont ;) <zacts>perhaps after I finish my homework for today I will try at my guix install again <zacts>I have math homework, but I only have a couple of sections to review/practice <jxself>This means you can fix Hydra? It seems stuck. <civodul>ah yes, there were disk space issues apparently <jxself>Hopefully that extra machine can help with that then. <civodul>maybe not with this particular issue <civodul>well, not as long as the front-end remains that FSF machine <davexunit>civodul: we only have one sysadmin at the FSF right now, and they are aware of the disk space issue. <davexunit>I can say that we do have the resources to grow the partition by what you asked for <civodul>ah great, thanks for the insider's info ;-) <davexunit>but it's just a matter of when our sysadmin has time. <civodul>it must be tough to be just one sysadmin <davexunit>I'm the web developer, so I don't touch those servers. <davexunit>we're hiring for a second one, but it takes a long time. <jxself>Time for the FSF to get a Clone-O-Mat. <civodul>davexunit: BTW, we have yet to see you in one of these FSF blog posts to introduce new people :-) <davexunit>civodul: yeah, I think that will happen eventually. <davexunit>our sysadmin that has been here for like 8 months still isn't on the staff page <jxself>Grab a camera, take a picture, login to Plone... :) <davexunit>my probation period is up so I'm officially part of the union, so I can be on the page now :) <davexunit>jxself: heh, I think william handles this stuff, so I'll wait for him to do it. :) <davexunit>I probably just need to write a little blurb about myself, something I hate doing. <jxself>Do it once, and have a standard template going forward? <davexunit>yeah, I'll use it for online dating sites and stuff <davexunit>I can't believe that I decided to keep using an AOL instant messenger screenname from middle school. <davexunit>mark_weaver: eek, that circular dependencies problem! <mark_weaver>we have a huge strongly-connected-component in (gnu packages *). 51 modules!