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<tadni>So, #emacs is dicussing using the GNUS/Emacs Splash Screen Logo as GNUS new Logo.
<tadni>as GNU's new logo*
<davexunit>tadni: the discussion is strange
<tadni>davexunit: In #GNU? Yeah.
<tadni>I think the FSF needs to just hire a graphic designer to come up with some mockups, or something. Thatbeing said, I don't hate Emacs' spladh screen.
<davexunit>a graphic designer would help, yeah.
*tadni sees if he can convience a friend to doing some mockups for free.
<tadni>I do think image is something that the GNU project REALLY needs to work on if we ever want it to get even relatively mainstream.
<tadni>A new, logo, and GNU shipping GNOME will do loads -- me thinks.
<tadni>All of which will take time and work, but given 2-3 years ... I think we'll have a solid product.
<davexunit>I agree, our "marketing" needs to be better.
<davexunit>I think the GNU system will be pretty damn solid, too. it's certainly being built on a rock solid foundation ;)
<svetlana>it is, like linux desktop, failing in one thing: ability of desktop apps integrate with the de well. gnome apps don't shine on gnustep, and vice versa.
<svetlana>that's what i expect at least.
<tadni>svetlana3: Meh, GNOME3 is doing something that is radically different from the traditional WIMP metaphor of computing.
<svetlana3>It's not just it. The freaking Firefox itself is doing something weird (i.e. menus are in the window and not outside, like gnustep apps' ones are.)
<tadni>svetlana3: That just sounds like Windowmaker problem.
<svetlana3>yeah, it can't force such applications to behave. what else would you use to get consistent look?
<svetlana3>that is one of things killing the free desktop.
<tadni>svetlana3: Use applicationd built around and for the GNUStep environment?
<svetlana3>I'm also thinking that: "each application needs to be built for each environment". i.e. when you package gimp or maxima, you have to build it /for/ gnustep.
<svetlana3>I don't know whether this is easy to do.
<tadni>svetlana3: I don't think it would be easy to just "GNUStepinize" an app.
<svetlana3>firefox's (or gnuzilla's) own interface is in xml for instance.
<svetlana3>they hardcode in xml and css where the scrollbars and menus are located.
*davexunit has never used gnustep
<tadni>svetlana3: I thought it used gtk?
<tadni>davexunit: It's the backend it Windowmaker.
<davexunit>I think GTK/GNOME is the way to go
<davexunit>for addressing the needs of casual computer users, anyway.
<tadni>davexunit: For the general/default GNU DE?
<svetlana3>I don't know where the border is. I just know xml is how it is. the markup. the interface source code. I can see it, if I install dom inspector - every menu and button in xml.
<tadni>Yeah, I agree.
<svetlana3>I would ideally like each application packaged for both gnustep and gnome.
<svetlana3>so that we support 2 DEs and people can switch easily.
<davexunit>GNOME 3.12 works really well
<svetlana3>if it's just gnome, people will complain.
<tadni>svetlana3: Default to GNOME, and offer custom config.scm based spins.
<svetlana3>packaging each app for 2 DEs would be a smart thing for desktop users to see and use.
<davexunit>not sure I see the point of that
<svetlana3>then you have to package gnustep apps for gnome. maybe.
<davexunit>the applications should just work regardless of DE, like they would on debian
<tadni>svetlana3: Again, I don't think it's as easy to port GTK apps to GNUStep.
<svetlana3>yes, desktop distros are hard to get right.
<tadni>davexunit: They want the same exact interaction you would expect on a GNUStep based enviroment with GTK apps.
<tadni>Like GTK apps acting like GNUStep apps, if I understand them right.
<svetlana3>on mac desktop for example, everything looks smooth and the same. they support one thing until the blunt completeness... and here, we have two DEs, and /every gui app/ only looks pretty on one of them.
<svetlana3>on the other, it works and functions, but stands out by uglier look.
<tadni>svetlana3: I think the number one goal should be providing the most useful desktop to the greatest number of people and GNOME is a much better bet than GNUStep on this end. We could of course supprt other "spins" of the distro though that has a GNUStep spin, a KDE Spin, a LXDE spin, etc,etc.
<svetlana3>yeah, a package info should contain details about which DEs it's been tested with maybe.
<tadni>svetlana3: We cussently have no DE packaged under GNU. Seeing that GNOME is a GNU project though and one that is very mature -- will likely make it the default desktop.
<svetlana3>which DEs it integrates with /well/. maybe having this sort of info could help porting things over.
<svetlana3>no other packaging format has this field in package info. it could probably be nice to have.
<tadni>svetlana3: Maybe, but such a feature is long thought away. Like I said, we don't even have 1 DE packaged yet ... well unless you count Emacs. ;^)
<svetlana>fyi is result of me kicking and screaming to get the issues reported
<svetlana>i hope someone actually looks at them a bit closer and makes some sense of it as i dont ;)
<zacts>hi guix hackers
<mark_weaver>hi zacts!
<zacts>perhaps after I finish my homework for today I will try at my guix install again
<zacts>I have math homework, but I only have a couple of sections to review/practice
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<jxself>You're back! :)
<jxself>This means you can fix Hydra? It seems stuck.
<civodul>ah yes, there were disk space issues apparently
<jxself>Hopefully that extra machine can help with that then.
<civodul>maybe not with this particular issue
<civodul>well, not as long as the front-end remains that FSF machine
<davexunit>civodul: we only have one sysadmin at the FSF right now, and they are aware of the disk space issue.
<davexunit>I can say that we do have the resources to grow the partition by what you asked for
<civodul>ah great, thanks for the insider's info ;-)
<davexunit>but it's just a matter of when our sysadmin has time.
<civodul>yes, i can imagine
<civodul>it must be tough to be just one sysadmin
<davexunit>I'm the web developer, so I don't touch those servers.
<davexunit>we're hiring for a second one, but it takes a long time.
<jxself>Time for the FSF to get a Clone-O-Mat.
<civodul>davexunit: BTW, we have yet to see you in one of these FSF blog posts to introduce new people :-)
<davexunit>civodul: yeah, I think that will happen eventually.
<jxself>Or on
<davexunit>our sysadmin that has been here for like 8 months still isn't on the staff page
<davexunit>yeah, nor am i
<jxself>Grab a camera, take a picture, login to Plone... :)
<davexunit>my probation period is up so I'm officially part of the union, so I can be on the page now :)
<davexunit>jxself: heh, I think william handles this stuff, so I'll wait for him to do it. :)
<davexunit>I probably just need to write a little blurb about myself, something I hate doing.
<jxself>Do it once, and have a standard template going forward?
<davexunit>yeah, I'll use it for online dating sites and stuff
<jxself>To find fellow "units"
<davexunit>I can't believe that I decided to keep using an AOL instant messenger screenname from middle school.
<davexunit>but here I am.
<mark_weaver>welcome back, civodul! :)
<davexunit>mark_weaver: eek, that circular dependencies problem!
<mark_weaver>we have a huge strongly-connected-component in (gnu packages *). 51 modules!
<mark_weaver>I can't compile guix at all right now :-(
<mark_weaver>poor civodul returns to multiple crises :-(