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<davexunit>hello #guix
<tadni`>mark_weaver: o/
<mark_weaver>hi tadni!
*tadni` still needs to ask cividoul if a .iso is likely to be released next release. Not sure if it would be best to wait on here or ask on the mailing list.
<xisiqomelir>mark I tried the config.scm specification you told me about yesterday
<xisiqomelir>but guix system throws me this error on the thinkpad
<xisiqomelir>guix system: error: failed to load operating system file '/etc/config.scm': (wrong-number-of-args #f "Wrong number of aurguments to ~A" (#<procedure 3490840 at gnu/services/xorg.scm:159:2 (store)>) #f)
<xisiqomelir>Can you pastebin your config.scm for me to diff with mine?
<tadni`>xisiqomelir: Can you paste the config.scm too?
<tadni`>What are you trying to do?
<mark_weaver>xisiqomelir: can you show me your config.scm? maybe I can find the mistake.
*tadni` wonders if this "Is there a plan to officially support a *.iso image at some point? The bios on my main box does not support a usb drives which to boot from. I think I might be in a rare situation though ..." is short and sweet enough for a mailing list question.
<mark_weaver>tadni`: it's probably fairly trivial, but I don't know much about what's needed to make a bootable ISO, and I don't even have any computers with a CDROM drive anymore. would you like to add support for that feature?
<tadni`>mark_weaver: I would, but I fear I wouldn't know where to start.
<mark_weaver>tadni`: does the USB image not work for you?
<tadni`>mark_weaver: It does on my secondary machine, but on my modern laptop -- I suspect there is an issue with efi drivers that don't read from the Usb even though it as listed as a boot option.
<xisiqomelir>this is the config.scm:
<tadni`>Why include the stuff that's already in the base install via use-module?
<mark_weaver>xisiqomelir: instead of (services ((slim-service))), it should be (services (list (slim-service)))
<xisiqomelir>ok let me try that
<mark_weaver>FYI, my current config (still a work-in-progress) is here:
<mark_weaver>oh, but you're probably going to need more services than just slim.
<mark_weaver>probably at minimum you want (services (cons* (slim-service) %base-services))
<tadni`>And that boots up slim and logs into ratpoison?
<tadni`>mark_weaver: ^
<mark_weaver>well, in order to use ratpoison you need an executable shell script ~/.xsession that launches ratpoison
<mark_weaver>otherwise it will use windowmaker
<tadni`>With just like "exec ratpoison"?
<mark_weaver>.xsession should set whatever environment variables you want, maybe run xmodmap and xrdb or whatever you want, and then run ratpoison in the foreground...
<mark_weaver>yeah, "exec ratpoison" would be a good way to end .xsession. but you'll need a shebang at the top "#!/bin/sh" and chmod +x it.
*tadni` is going to play around with trying to get guile-wm working on his VM by the weekend.
<mark_weaver>guile-wm is a package in guix, so it should be no problem to use it via .xsession
<tadni`>mark_weaver: Yeah, ideally I'd want to set up a small distro that boots into an optimized Emacs-like environment and I think everything in the repos needed now is there to provide that.
<tadni`>Guile-wm in general needs some work before it reaches what I'm accustomed to in Stumpwm ... but I'm hopeful.
<mark_weaver>yes, I think so
<tadni`>I'm still excited/worried how easy it is to make a "spin" of the GNU system, already...
<mark_weaver>yes, it would be great to get guile-wm working well :)
<mark_weaver>why worried?
<tadni`>mark_weaver: If we get 100 distros that are midly popular and possibly even outshine the original in-brand recognition and too the possibility of promoting non-free software.
<tadni`>mark_weaver: The only thing with Guile-wm is that I'm not sure if we should be focused on the x11 route anymore ... it's not going away anytime soon, but still.
<tadni`>I'm all for the power to create sub-distros, but I think we need to eventually have some time of branding in-place and too a set of rules to become an official "spin" of GNU.
<tadni`>kind of branding*
<xisiqomelir>I am getting an "Unbound variable: ~S (%base-file-systems) #f) error
<xisiqomelir>but I declared (gnu file systems) in modules
<xisiqomelir>*(gnu system file-systems)
<mark_weaver>xisiqomelir: you mean that you put it in the top (use-modules ...) form?
<mark_weaver>I think %base-file-systems was added just before the 0.7 release. if you're using a older version of guix, it might not be there.
<xisiqomelir>guix --version returns 0.7
<mark_weaver>xisiqomelir: can you paste your current config to ?
<tadni`>xisiqomelir: You try grabbing it with guix package again?
<mark_weaver>(the image was a bit of a pain)
<xisiqomelir>oh does the image's guix return a false version?
<xisiqomelir>should I get a new one?
<mark_weaver>well, I guess it's fine if for some reason you can't get the text easily.
<mark_weaver>xisiqomelir: if it said 0.7, then it should be fine
<xisiqomelir>guix pull fails
<tadni`>xisiqomelir: The version of guix that comes with the installer is actually 0.6 from what I can tell. If you haven't actively upgraded it... you are probably on 0.6.
<xisiqomelir>and guix package -i guix installs 0.6
<tadni`>xisiqomelir: You have a .config folder in root?
<xisiqomelir>as in /.config/ ? I don't
<tadni`>mkdir one and run guix pull again (as root).
<tadni`>Not in your root directiory, your root home directory.
<tadni`>Sorry if I wasn't clear.
<xisiqomelir>yes I have ~/.config
<mark_weaver>I have to go afk for a while...
<tadni`>mark_weaver: Peace. o/
<tadni`>xisiqomelir: Hm, where does guix pull fail then?
<xisiqomelir>thanks mark, got the vm working
<mark_weaver>that's good news!
<xisiqomelir>yeah just going to get the thinkpad set up as well then I can start packaging things
<mark_weaver>cool :)
<tadni`>Hm, guix pull seems to be halting on this VM too.
<tadni`>I'm probably going to just work with my old Compaq Desktop.
<mark_weaver>I've never really used 'guix pull', so I'm not sure what's happening there. instead, I installed all the packages I needed to download the guix git repo and build it.
<tadni`>Well, I'm going offline for tonight probably. I'll figure it out tomorrow. o/
<mark_weaver>okay, good night!
<xisiqomelir>it seems to me that the usb installer's guix is actually 0.7
<xisiqomelir>it just installs 0.6 on the new system
<xisiqomelir>since it evaluates %base-file-systems correctly
<mytchel>Trying to install the system from a usb.
<mytchel>Is everything men to be left in /gnu. /bin, /boot, /etc and so on are all empty.
<tadni>mytchel: Your root directiories are empty?
<tadni>xisiqome1ir: o/
<xisiqome1ir>hello friends
<tadni>xisiqome1ir: So you have a VM working, but you're setting up an actual on-the-metal install?
<xisiqome1ir>have the thinkpad working now too
<xisiqome1ir>dave's config was good
<xisiqome1ir>windowmaker is kind of amazing
<tadni>Oh, yah. Main box, or secondary?
<tadni>xisiqome1ir: Link to config?
<xisiqome1ir>I looked at the options and its pretty wild
<xisiqome1ir>I distro-hop a lot on the thinkpad
<xisiqome1ir>my desktop is my main
<tadni>I'm the opposite actually. ... But, my desktop is also ancient compared to my laptop.
<tadni>10 y/o Compaq.
<xisiqome1ir>you will need to edit most fields under the (users ...) section
<xisiqome1ir>but if you have real guix 0.7 installed it should work
<tadni>Cool! My plan is by Friday is to have a working install on my ol' Desktop.
<xisiqome1ir>the install image reports itself as 0.7 when invoked with guix --version, but it is actually 0.6
<tadni>xisiqome1ir: Yeah, that's what I figured.
<xisiqome1ir>It will choke on %base-file-systems when you guix system reconfigure
<tadni>I think the actual tarball is like that too.
<tadni>It's a shame you can't condense the modules to just (gnu packages '(emacs vim screen grub ... ... ...)) instead of vertically spewing all of that.
<tadni>phant0mas: o/
<phant0mas>hello tadni
<phant0mas>hello guix
*tadni wonders if davexunit ever got wpa_supplicant working for him.
<svetlana>good question ;)
<rah>does guix abide by the FSF's Guidelines for Free System Distributions?
<svetlana>It's not "released from beta" so they don't list it there, I believe.
<svetlana>I'm not sure.
***Steap__ is now known as Steap
<taylanub>rah: pretty sure it does, or at least means to
<taylanub>rah: it will become *the* GNU distro you know; the first(?) GNU/Linux distro made by the GNU project itself
<rah>yes, I got that
<rah>really, the FSF's Guidelines are a matter of policy
<rah>so I guess it's early days for the development of such policy
<rah>code is more important right now
<rah>when 1.0 comes around it will be more important
<taylanub>what exactly is expected? some written rules on what package recipes can and cannot go upstream?
<rah>"A free system distribution must not steer users towards obtaining any nonfree information for practical use, or encourage them to do so. The system should have no repositories for nonfree software and no specific recipes for installation of particular nonfree programs. Nor should the distribution refer to third-party repositories that are not committed to only including free software; even if they only have free software today, that may not be true tomorrow. Pr
<rah>and most critically:
<rah>"Most distribution development teams don't have the resources to exhaustively check that their distribution meet all these criteria. Neither do we. So we expect distros to occasionally contain mistakes: nonfree software that slipped through, etc. We don't reject a distribution over mistakes. Our requirement is for the distribution developers to have a firm commitment to promptly correct any mistakes that are reported to them."
<taylanub>From what I've seen the Guix maintainers are very conscious about packages being free software, and ideally official GNU packages. So I'm pretty sure Guix meets those criteria already.
<Steap>Yes, we obviously only include Free Software
<rah>including only free software is a small thing
<rah>the bigger things are, for example, (1) a "firm commitment" to treat non-free software as bugs, (2) ensuring that no software offering to download non-free plugins (like, for example, Firefox foes), (2) not refering to non-free software in documentation
<rah>err.. s/(2) not/(3) not/
<Steap>well, this is the GNU system
<Steap>so I'm pretty sure it intends to comply with those terms
<tadni>Booting into Gnustep now on this box!
<tadni>I need to figure out how to get Slim to boot from a different xsessions file.
<tadni>Hm, no go.
***sjamaan_ is now known as sjamaan
<tadni>Yeah, I got nothing.
<svetlana>tadni: if someone gets wpa_sapplicant working, please leave me a PM with their nick. Should be something I'll need; I think so, anyway.
<svetlana>I can only install it on a separate partition on a sata hard drive. I hope the installer is capable of that. (Should take me a few days to make one.)
<taylanub>rah: Guix uses Linux-libre, offers IceCat instead of Firefox, took into account matters of freedom while discussing FFmpeg vs. Libav, etc., so I am pretty sure the firm commitment is there, though I can't speak for Ludovic et al.
<rah>taylanub: I think by "firm commitment" the Guidelines mean a specific, explicit public declaration
<rah>taylanub: like on a website
<taylanub>rah: is it enough that the Guix web page is on :)
<tadni>Man, I can't seem to get a working font for guile-wm.
<tadni>svetlana: Yeah, will do.
<taylanub>tadni: I see guix has no terminus yet .. DejaVu Mono should do?
<tadni>taylanub: It doesn't support ttf, I don't think.
*tadni will probably just make an attempt at packaging terminus.
<tadni>Proggy is dead, right?
<jmd>rah: From the Guix website: "Our goal is to build a practical 100% free software distribution of Linux-based and other variants of GNU, with a focus on the promotion and tight integration of GNU components, and an emphasis on programs and tools that help users exert that freedom. "
<tadni>I would package that because it's guile-wm's default ... but I can't even find a site.
<tadni>Oh wow, it's back up!
<tadni>I'm assuming I want proggy bitmap.
<tadni>Man, it's freaking my mind out to be back on qwerty...
<tadni>Yeah, I plan to have a proggy patch by Monday at the latest.
<tadni>For at least proggy clean.
<tadni>Hm, where should bitmap fonts go? It seems the fonts.scm module is just ttf.
<tadni>ijp: o/
<taylanub>tadni: if it's called fonts.scm, I'd expect all fonts to go there
<tadni>taylanub: xfonts are in xorg.scm though.
<tadni>My module already refuses to build...
<tadni>Should I be able to use guix build, without pre-inst-env?
*tadni is close to taking a nap, it's been a good 20 hours up.
<tadni>Hopefully someone can check up on this with me later. Peace peeps. o/
<rah>jmd: ok, but that's not a firm commitment to correct mistakes
<rah>jmd: that's just a description of the goal
<tadni>rah: There are social systemd that will need to be developed as Guix and the GNU Distro grows that are not currently in-place. I think most of those working on Guix knows this will likely be needed going onwards... but such things take time.
<jmd>rah: Interesting point. Why don't you raise it at the GNU Hackers meeting next month?
<rah>09:55 < rah> code is more important right now
<rah>09:56 < rah> when 1.0 comes around it will be more important
<jmd>Anyway, can anyone suggest how to get gcj in guix?
<tadni>rah: Agreed.
<tadni>jmd: I'm assuming it's not packaged?
<tadni>Well package it of course! :^P
<tadni>It would be cool if we implemented some-sort of bounty system for packaging.
<tadni>Man, all this brain-fog ... I don't even feel tired anymore ever, just "fuzzy".
<taylanub>tadni: go sleep :)
<Steap>tadni: not a good thing, believe me :)
<tadni>Yeah, I really should. I'll probably be back in 4-6 ... maybe 8.
<taylanub>.oO( how can you have the time and NOT sleep for at least 8 hours?! )
<ijp>taylanub: neighbours playing house music at 4am? already napped in the evening? nightmares about dinosaurs? the list is endless
<Steap>"house music at 4am"
<Steap>well, nothing like a good fight before bed
<tadni>davexunit: Hey! Thanks to your config I'm on Windowmaker! You figure out wpa_supplicant?
<davexunit>tadni: no, I haven't yet.
<davexunit>haven't tried in a few days.
<davexunit>been busy with other things.
<tadni>taylanub: I have issuses staying asleep, so usually I just stay up when I wake.
<tadni>davexunit: Fair enough.
<davexunit>I imagine the problem is really simple, but I haven't been able to spot it.
<tadni>davexunit: Typically how it is. :^)
<davexunit>I need to first get wpa_supplicant working on my debian machine, to make sure my config is correct.
<tadni>Okay, stepping away because I really need to try and sleep.
<tadni>Peace for real ... I promise.
<tadni>davexunit: *Morning.
<tadni>Kay bai!
<mark_weaver>svetlana: I have wpa_supplicant working on standalone guix. the key is that the ccm and ctr modules need to be loaded in order to connect to WPA.
<xisiqome1ir>mark I am trying to package something
<xisiqome1ir>so I used wget.scm from the store as a template
<xisiqome1ir>but guix returns this error
<xisiqome1ir>guix build: error: failed to evaluate expression `wget.scm': (unbound-variable #f "Unbound variable: ~S" (wget.scm) #f)
<xisiqome1ir>I'm invoking with "guix build -e wget.scm"
<mark_weaver>xisiqome1ir: that's not the way to use -e
<mark_weaver>xisiqome1ir: do you have guix built from a git checkout?
<mark_weaver>if you intend to add your own packages, that's the best way to go.
<xisiqome1ir>ok so do I have to patch something to add a package?
<xisiqome1ir>and then install with guix package?
<mark_weaver>xisiqome1ir: here's the proper way to do things: first clone the guix git repo in your normal user's home dir, and get it built. then add your package to either an existing file in gnu/packages/*.scm or add a new file. if you add a new file then you must also add it to
<mark_weaver>and then, from within the top-level dir of the git repo, do: ./pre-inst-env guix build -K <your-package-name>
<mark_weaver>the -K ensures that if the build fails, the build directory will be left in /tmp/nix-build-* for you to debug
<xisiqome1ir>then I run diff to generate a patch?
<mark_weaver>do you know how to use git?
<xisiqome1ir>yes, but I'm new to compiling with seperate prefixes for the deps
<mark_weaver>I don't understand what you mean by that.
<mark_weaver>anyway, for contributions, the thing to do is to "git commit -a" in your local repo, and then "git format-patch -1" and email us the file it generates.
<mark_weaver>that allows us to apply the patch to the official repo using "git am"
<xisiqome1ir>I mean finding the correct paths to export
<xisiqome1ir>so that ./configure can run
<xisiqome1ir>do I search out the dependencies in /gnu/store?
<mark_weaver>oh, you mean finding the packages that are needed as dependencies for your package?
<xisiqome1ir>right I exported ACLOCAL so I could run ./bootstrap
<xisiqome1ir>but ./configure wants Guile now
<taylanub>xisiqome1ir: are you talking about compiling guix from git?
<xisiqome1ir>and I have guile 2.0.11 installed
<mark_weaver>xisiqome1ir: if you already have a working guix setup, then I'd recommend using guix itself to install the things you need to compile guix.
<xisiqome1ir>right I saw that in the readme
<mark_weaver>xisiqome1ir: you'll need gcc-toolchain-4.8.3
<mark_weaver>and make sure that $HOME/.guix-profile/bin comes first in your path
<mark_weaver>and set any other environment variables that it recommends when running "guix package -i"
<xisiqome1ir>so I did "guix package --install={autoconf,automake,bzip2,gcc-toolchain,gettext,guile,libgcrypt,pkg-config,sqlite}
<mark_weaver>"guix package --search-paths" will also show them to you again.
<mark_weaver>oh, also, you need to pass --with-libgcrypt-prefix=$(guix build libgcrypt)
<mark_weaver>to configure
<mark_weaver>and you'll also need --prefix=
<mark_weaver>in order to use the same store as the core guix install
<mark_weaver>(and yes, there's nothing after the '=')
<xisiqome1ir>guix package --search-paths is returning PKG_CONFIG_PATH and ACLOCAL_PATH
<xisiqome1ir>the readme says I should also set LIBRARY_PATH and CPATH
<mark_weaver>that's right
<mark_weaver>all of those are important to set
<mark_weaver>I recommend putting all of these things in your .bash_profile
<mark_weaver>and source that from the .xsession if you have X setup
<xisiqome1ir>if I set those via ~/.guix-profile
<xisiqome1ir>will they automatically update
<mark_weaver>right, that's what you should do
<xisiqome1ir>when I install new library versions?
<mark_weaver>here's my .bash_profile:
<mark_weaver>the http_proxy/HTTP_PROXY/https_proxy variables are for routing web traffic through tor via privoxy, but that will take some more time for you to set up.
<mark_weaver>the SSL variables assume that /etc/ssl has the same layout as Debian uses.
<xisiqome1ir>oh I wanted to ask about manpath
<xisiqome1ir>is that why I can't see any manpages?
<mark_weaver>probably :)
<xisiqome1ir>there is no setxkbmap utility
<xisiqome1ir>how do I configure my keyboard layout?
<davexunit>I think we should automatically create a .bash_profile or similar that has some of these env vars set.
<mark_weaver>hmm. I currently use xmodmap, but I guess setxkbmap would be better. not sure offhand which package that's in or whether guix has it yet.
<xisiqome1ir>or change settings that I would normally change in xorg.conf.d?
<mark_weaver>davexunit: yeah, it would be nice to make this process easier
<mark_weaver>xisiqome1ir: I don't know off-hand, sorry.
<mark_weaver>xisiqome1ir: I would guess that we should have setxkbmap (not sure if it's packaged yet), and that you would run it from your .xsession
<xisiqome1ir>no problem I'll work it out somehow
<xisiqome1ir>if I compile a new kernel
<xisiqome1ir>how do I invoke guix system to create a new configuration with it?
<xisiqome1ir>I also didn't have man-pages installed I guess haha
<mark_weaver>good question. one way is to run guix from a git repo, and modify the linux-libre package in your local branch. but there may be another way. let me see.
<mark_weaver>right, you need the man-pages and man-db packages
<jxself>If you need to compile a kernel I'd love to know why. Is there something that needs changing with the current one?
<xisiqome1ir>I need a non-free firmware to run my wireless module
<mark_weaver>xisiqome1ir: the 'operating-system' declaration supports a 'kernel' option, which refers to the kernel package you want to use.
<jxself>I see.
<xisiqome1ir>my desktop runs fine with libre
<xisiqome1ir>but I do need the wireless hardware on my laptop unfortunately :(
<xisiqome1ir>thanks mark
<mark_weaver>that's what I use. built the firmware of the device myself from source code. I love that :)
<xisiqome1ir>the kernel option isn't listed in the manual yet?
<mark_weaver>correct. I found it in gnu/system.scm
<xisiqome1ir>Actually that's a good point
<xisiqome1ir>I might have a supported USB dongle somewhere
<xisiqome1ir>okay let me read that too
<xisiqome1ir>thanks for answering all my questions, by the way
<mark_weaver>glad to help!
<xisiqome1ir>I really appreciate it
<mark_weaver>I forget, who was it here who wanted an .iso?
<mark_weaver>tadni: what it you? I see you keep changing your nick :)
<mark_weaver>well, I just replied to the email. in short, if you can't boot a USB stick, you can still use "guix system init" on a fresh partition.
<mark_weaver>(that's what I did, fwiw)