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<DusXMT>what should I do if guix pull fails?
<jmd>Try again?
<DusXMT>I tried several times, with 1-2 day waiting times
<jmd>DusXMT: I think there was a bug reported yesterday which affected this. Is your git repository up-to-date?
<DusXMT>jmd: Hmmm. I guess that's the problem then, I'm using the 0.6 tarball version, going to get the git one
<jmd>I've never used guix pull.
<jmd>Hydra is so slooooooow
***tschwing_ is now known as tschwinge
<taylanub>OK now who the fuck unset my $USER :P found the reason guix tries to use the default profile
<taylanub>Hrm, I start Emacs from a @reboot cron job, it's probably that.
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<sneek>Welcome back civodul, you have 1 message.
<sneek>civodul, daviid says: there must be a way do avoid these warnings though and I'd like to get rid of them
<Mathnerd314>civodul: can one pull in nixpkgs from guix? (is guix in a state such that one would want to use guix instead of NixOS?)
<civodul>Mathnerd314: the basic answer is "no"
<civodul>there are fewer packages in Guix than in Nixpkgs
<civodul>and the standalone distro (equivalent of NixOS) is just beginning
<civodul>the good news is that you can help! :-)
<Mathnerd314>yeah, but I think I prefer systemd to dmd...
<Mathnerd314>the reasons systemd has for avoiding bash apply just as well to avoiding guile
<civodul>i think it avoids Bash mostly because (1) it's not a "programming language", and (2) forking all the time is slow
<jmd>sourceforge really is a most annoying site
<civodul>Scheme is more expressive and versatile than C, and we don't end up forking like a shell script does
<jmd>(unless we call scm_system )
<Mathnerd314>hmm, and you use s-exprs instead of .ini files
<jmd>I think the point about forking is that most shell scripts have to call external programs to do things, whereas most guile programs do not.
<jmd>There are always exceptions of course.
<Mathnerd314>yeah. so it's "anything but shell" as opposed to "nothing but C"
<Mathnerd314>and Guile can still compile things, so there's not much of a performance hit
<Mathnerd314>of course, systemd has a lot more code currently...
<Mathnerd314>e.g. I compare[Unit]%20Section%20Options with
<civodul>ah yes, systemd is mature, and dmd is not, that's for sure ;-)
<civodul>but if we're talking about the general approach, i agree with "anything but shell"
<Mathnerd314>hmm, I wonder if I can convince poettering to switch to guile :p
<civodul>but i also think that a high-level language like Scheme is preferable over C
<Mathnerd314>systemd is LGPL 2.1+, and 240018 lines of code
<Mathnerd314>whereas DMD is GPL 3
<Mathnerd314>*GPL 3+
<jmd>"anything but shell" and "high level" -- then write it in visual basic!
<Mathnerd314>jmd: do you have a GNU VB compiler lying around?
<Mathnerd314>"It’s been nagging at me for years,” Stallman told freshmeat news correspondent Jeff Covey, “Why do I keep clinging to lisp? Lisp of all things? I mean, who even writes in lisp any more? Look at all that lisp code the AI community churned out for years and years -- did it get us closer to a machine that’s any smarter than a well-trained bag of dirt? It’s just time to move on.”
<jmd>Mathnerd314: Curiously enough, there is one.
<taylanub>if by "move on" they mean fall back to even worse languages ... :P
<Mathnerd314>jmd: link?
<Mathnerd314>jmd: but it's not a GNU project, and probably not maintained
<jmd>I believe it is being maintained, and the mailing list shows the devs are talking about applying to become a GNU project (but you are right it is not yet)
<jmd>civodul: I seem to have problems building libbonoboui
<jmd>Or rather downloading it.
<jmd>ERROR: download failed "" 404 "Not Found"
<Mathnerd314>jmd: hmm, you are right. I do not think there is any reason to prefer basic to scheme though
<jmd>I don't understand why it is trying to download from .../2.2/...
<jmd>The source clearly says (string-take version 4)
<civodul>jmd: same problem here, for libbonoboui
<civodul>typo in the URL?
<civodul>or did it vasish?
<jmd>it should be trying /2.24/
<jmd> needs its elastic band winding up a bit.
<Mathnerd314>civodul: can you comment on my architecture diagram: ? (I said nixpkgs, but s/nix/guix/ and it should be pretty similar)
<Mathnerd314>diagram now updated with more alternatives such as dmd, guix, etc.
<Mathnerd314>I'm going offline, feel free to respond because I'll read the logs
<civodul>sneek: later tell Mathnerd314 looks good, but NixOS and Guix actually take care of /etc by themselves; dmd/systemd are just consumers of that
<sneek>Got it.
<civodul>sneek: later tell Mathnerd314 specifically /etc is mostly a bunch of symlinks to /gnu/store
<sneek>Got it.
<davexunit>why would someone want to use guix to manage operating system configurations over tools like docker or vagrant?
<davexunit>I haven't used either of these tools to know where they overlap with guix.
<davexunit>but I can anticipate people asking about the difference
<civodul>davexunit: Docker is lower-level, i think
<civodul>the comparison is more with Chef and Puppet
<civodul>i don't remember about Vagrant
<civodul>then the technical advantages are as for package management: referential transparency, atomicity, rollback, etc
<davexunit>civodul: thanks, that helps.
<davexunit>(we use puppet at the FSF, but I haven't used it yet to know what it's really for, maybe we can use guix some day)
<civodul>Guix doesn't mention distribution at all at this point though, it takes care of a single machine
<civodul>but it can be compared to Puppet in how it allows users to declare a whole machine config
<davexunit>I think also FAI (fully automated installation)
<civodul>ah ok
<davexunit>which is mostly just shell scripts
<davexunit>it is purposely not declarative
<civodul>well i think 'guix system init' is sort-of FAI, no?
<davexunit>yeah, I suppose it is.