IRC channel logs

<mark_weaver>time to update guile in core-updates :)

<mark_weaver>ph4n70m4s: 'string-prefix?' would be a bit more appropriate here, but either way...

<ph4n70m4s>ok

<civodul>yay for Guile! :-)

<Steap>damn, I got the bastard to compile

<rigelk>civodul: compilation of the hello package failed. Damn it.

<Steap>that libgcrypt thing is always a bit of pain, since it's in a weird location in Debian

<Steap>I think I had to built ligcrypt using a Guix tarball the first time

<Steap>before I could build from the git repo

<rgc>hi, today I was thinking that guix approach to package managing could be used to replace Ruby bundler, Emacs Cask, etc... like using different 'sets' of packages. Is there anything in that direction?

<civodul>Steap: re libgcrypt/debian, we should have --with-libgcrypt-libdir or something like that

<civodul>rgc: what's Emacs Cask?

<civodul>rigelk: could you send the tail of the build log to guix-devel?

<rgc>civodul: https://github.com/cask/cask

<davexunit>rgc: I write ruby for a living, I hate bundler!

<davexunit>the ruby gems situation is awful.

<Steap>civodul: yeah, but it does something even weirder, can't remember the details

<Steap>civodul: it's something like "we'd look in $prefix/libgcrypt/ to find the .so, and it's in $prefix/"

<Steap>or the other way around

<rgc>agree, but it's a problem to solve, not only in ruby. perl, python .... they also have their versions of this application that 'packs' and remembers a set of libraries with their versions

<davexunit>ruby has the other unfortunate problem of needing crazy tools like rvm to manage different versions of ruby on the same machine.

<civodul>Steap: yeah, because we only provide --with-libgcrypt-prefix

<davexunit>rvm takes over your 'cd' command! madness!

<civodul>rgc: there seems to be some overlap with Guix, but nothing specific is being done in that area

<civodul>well Guix has some support to make it easy to build Python/Perl packages, for instance

<civodul>good night/day!

<rgc>davexunit: yup, I also do ruby and all those tools drive me mad ...

<Steap>I have no idea of how to install a Ruby package properly

<davexunit>rgc: do you ever feel that ruby is very poorly integrated with the rest of the operating system? it just *feels* foreign.

<rgc>yup. I came from Perl, and well... they approach these things a bit differently, the language itself. they respect backwards compat a lot more

<davexunit>I like the parts of ruby that were borrowed from lisp, but they didn't go far enough. no first-class functions!

<rgc>although I don't know how other languages do it. Lua is not very good at that either

<davexunit>blocks, procs, lambdas...

<davexunit>I dislike lua as well.

<Steap>who doesn't ?

<rgc>lua is cool. I like it quite a lot. very KISS

<davexunit>game developers.

<rgc>I like that it's very small

<davexunit>I tried to embed lua scripting in a program before I ever knew of Scheme and Guile.

<davexunit>lua's API drove me mad and guile's was quite pleasant.

<Steap>rgc: one nice thing about it is that it allowed non-programmers to program stuff

<Steap>I hear it's widely used in World of Warcraft, for instance

<Steap>people seemed to be able to learn the basics quickly and write scripts that did what they needed

<rgc>davexunit: I only did a *very* basic integration of both lua and guile (same app in fact :p) and guile felt much better

<rgc>but I like the whole lua source is 20k lines. Makes it very hackable

<davexunit>that's true.

<rgc>btw, I recently started hacking a bit on clojure, and lein feels super great (opposed to bundler/rvm/capistrano/foreman/watheverElse)

<davexunit>I haven't used clojure.

<davexunit>it looks fine, but something about it doesn't attract me towards it.

<davexunit>that said, it would be cool to be able to use a lisp professionally and clojure is the best bet in that regard.

<davexunit>unless I made my own business, in which case I would use guile. :)

<rgc>:)

<mst>davexunit: frankly, perl makes a better lisp than ruby

<mst>since perl actually has proper lexical scoping and function closures

<mst>I had some code at one point that used guile w/call/cc to do co-operative top level logic threads on top of event-driven perl code to do parallel processing without getting myself into event hell

<davexunit>mst: neat. :)

<davexunit>ruby's lack of real lexical scoping also drives me insane.

<mst>plus the Moose metaprotocol steals a bunch of things like method modifiers and sane traits from lisp

<rgc>the fuck, Matt Trout is here!

<mst>people look at me really funny when I say "perl's a lot like ruby, except slightly less pretty but actually good at functional programming and OO"

<davexunit>and then I also write javascript, where I'm happy to have first-class functions and lexical scoping, but am plagued by a ton of other issues.

<mst>heh, yeah, I'm having a lot of fun with angular though

<mst>I'll have more fun once I finish reading the source

<mst>only about 2/3 of the way through so far

<davexunit>mst: I like angular in some ways, but it's also driving me crazy.

<davexunit>I'll say it: dependency injection isn't pleasant at all.

<davexunit>it's just a buzzword for formal arguments.

<mst>I thought that. then I read the source code to src/auto/injector.js and found everything became clear

<mst>angular doesn't really have a DI system so much as it has a dictionary of thunks that are expected to return the relevant object

<davexunit>also, the default way to do the injection is completely insane.

<davexunit>anyway, this is totally off topic for #guix.

<mst>once you realise it's really not being that clever, it makes reasonable sense

<davexunit>(except for the whole rendering a function to a string to inspect the parameter list thing)

<mst>rgc: I have a soft spot for guile-based stuff, given updating Guile.pm was how I first ended up with a PAUSE id :)

<mst>davexunit: all the code I'm working with uses the standard way of an arrayref with a function at the end

<davexunit>mst: I do that as well.

<mst>using the fallback-to-inspection stuff is obviously a terrible idea

<mst>well, at least, given a language that doesn't give you a sane way to do so

<civodul>Hello Guix!

<ph4n70m4s>hello civodul

<ph4n70m4s>normally my hurd's headers recipe have the flag --host=i686-pc-gnu

<ph4n70m4s>but when I try to build them with my sans free gcc I get the error that gcc cannot create executables

<ph4n70m4s>that's why I remove the host flag in the cross-headers recipe

<ph4n70m4s>but then I get the error *** Host configuration must be `MACHINE-gnu' or `MACHINE-VENDOR-gnu'.

<civodul>what command line do you use to build them with the libc-free gcc?

<ph4n70m4s>./pre-inst-env guix build -e '((@@ (gnu packages cross-base) cross-libc/hurd) "i686-pc-gnu")'

<civodul>ok

<ph4n70m4s> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=m6mM4Q3B

<civodul>ph4n70m4s: could you post your current patch to the list?

<civodul>that would be the most convenient for me

<ph4n70m4s>ok

<civodul>because it needs a bit of thought, and it's better to have all the info before my eyes

<ph4n70m4s>ok

<civodul>are you already done with University BTW?

<ph4n70m4s>I have a lesson at 2 pm...

<ph4n70m4s>and then at 5pm to 9 pm

<ph4n70m4s>:P

<civodul>oh, 9PM

<civodul>that's unusual for me :-)

<ph4n70m4s>yeah here we may have 2 hours in the morning 3 in the noon and 2 in the afternoon

<civodul>interesting

<ph4n70m4s>preparing patch

<civodul>cool

<civodul>note that i'm at work right now, so typically not very responsive

<ph4n70m4s>ok

<ph4n70m4s>in the patch you will see all the changes I did

<ph4n70m4s>it's work in progress so it is a mess in some places :P

<ph4n70m4s>sending it now

<civodul>thanks

<civodul>no problem with the mess, it always starts like this, don't worry :-)

<civodul>ph4n70m4s: i forgot to ask for the build log too

<ph4n70m4s>one sec I am sending it

<civodul>perfect, thank you

<civodul>it's important to make it easy to review and comment changes

<civodul>because the recipient is lazy ;-)

<Steap>That's the one and only thing they should teach in Computer Engineering courses.

<civodul>"the person at the other end is lazy"

<civodul>:-)

<viric>I'm lazy

<viric>grmbl. the new gdb still has the bug I proposed a patch for, years ago

<ph4n70m4s>I sent it

<civodul>viric: propose it loudly :-)

<ph4n70m4s>civodul: I have to go to the university

<viric>I think I never answered this: http://www.sourceware.org/ml/gdb-patches/2012-08/msg00439.html . Too lazy. :)

<Steap>viric: when I was in school, one of my teachers told me "well, I proposed patches to Gnome about 12 years ago"

<Steap>"Still no answer."

<viric>hehe

<viric>two weeks ago, mediawiki fixed an issue I reported in 2005 :)

<Steap>The best thing is, you always find yourself whining about people not reviewing patches fast enough

<Steap>And then you become the maintainer of a project

<Steap>and you're just taking ages to review the simplest patch :D

<viric>Right. :)

<viric>I barely ever received a patch for any of my projects though. hehe

<Steap>I started maintaining a Python project for work

<Steap>It was almost dead

<Steap>people saw that there was some activity

<Steap>bam!

<Steap>Bug reports and patches falling from the sky

<civodul>Steap: well, that's primarily good news :-)

<Steap>civodul: hell no, now I have to process all that

<civodul>heh

<Steap>civodul: btw, now that Guile 2.0.10 is out, I imagine it's a matter of a few days before core-updates is merged ?

<civodul>Steap: i think so, yes

<civodul>BTW, we can do the Python thing later in master if need be, no?

<mark_weaver>civodul: is 'file' something that should only be updated in core-updates? there's a security advisory for it. http://lwn.net/Articles/589917/ https://github.com/file/file/commit/c0c0032b9e9eb57b91fefef905a3b018bab492d9

<mark_weaver>I haven't yet investigated whether there's an upstream tarball with the fix, or if it has to be applied as a patch.

<civodul>mark_weaver: 'file' can be upgraded in master

<civodul>it's a leaf, so no big rebuild

<mark_weaver>okay

<mark_weaver>what about bzip?

*civodul just pushed 2.0.10 in core-updates :-)

<civodul>mark_weaver: bzip is for master

<civodul>err

<civodul>mark_weaver: bzip is for core-updates

<mark_weaver>I have a TODO of things to fix. bzip man1 pages are being installed in share/man1 instead of share/man/man1/

<civodul>ok

<civodul>eventually we could automate some of these checks in gnu-build-system, for instance

<mark_weaver>(I went looking around my .guix-profile/ for directories in the wrong place, and made a little TODO)

<civodul>cool!

<mark_weaver>s/made a little TODO/added to my big TODO :)

<mark_weaver>/

<mark_weaver>a bunch of packages are installing their man pages in man/ instead of share/man: (ncurses, netpbm, bc, cmake, flac, unzip, netcat, screen). any of those for core-updates only?

<mark_weaver>util-macros is installing into share/pkgconfig/ instead of lib/pkgconfig/.

<mark_weaver>some packages are installing in info/ instead of share/info/: (bc, netcat, screen).

<mark_weaver>I hope to find time to do some of these in the next few days.

<civodul>mark_weaver: ncurses is for core-updates (used by Bash)

<mark_weaver>ah, okay, thanks. I'll make sure to do that soon.

<civodul>i'll send an email in case others have things to do before the merge

<mark_weaver>sounds good

<mark_weaver>I'm also unsure of what to do about gnutls and the system-wide trust store. we seem unable to reach consensus on what do to.

<civodul>i thought we had some sort of consensus no?

<civodul>i forgot the details

<Steap>civodul: that would trigger quite a huge re-build

<civodul>Steap: yeah; so it's better in core-updates, but if it doesn't make it, that's OK

<ph4n70m4s>I am back

<ph4n70m4s>sending the prievious config.log

<ph4n70m4s>checking pkg-config for the macro civodul suggested

<bavier>anyone else have trouble with the libvorbis tests?

<bavier>I think it might be a parallelism thing; I tried with #:parallel-tests? #f and could finally build it

<civodul>hey bavier

<civodul>bavier: i don't remember having a problem with that, but a parallel-build issue is always possible

<civodul>all green here: http://hydra.gnu.org/job/gnu/master/libvorbis-1.3.3.x86_64-linux

<bavier>I'll try building it a few more times with parallel tests

<civodul>ok

<civodul>mark_weaver: BTW, i really appreciate the new SRFI-64 output

IRC channel logs

2014-03-18.log