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<handheldCar>Does anybody know where I can get the dot command?
<elly>graphviz I think
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<civodul>Happy GNU year! :-)
<Steap>Lamest pun of the year!
<civodul>hello Steap :-)
<Steap>hello civodul :)
*davexunit still needs to get his guix box setup
<davexunit>need to start dog fooding. :)
<civodul>howdy mark_weaver !
<civodul>viric: did you try the latest GNUnet?
<viric>not yet
<civodul>the VPN looks neat
<mark_weaver>hi civodul! happy new year :)
<viric>really? Is it different than before?
<civodul>viric: i don't think so, but i've never used it :-)
<civodul>i'm looking for a way to distribute binaries
<civodul>maybe it's easier to just use the VPN as an underlay, and write a basic HTTP server
<mark_weaver>how about bittorrent?
<civodul>actually i don't know that much about bittorrent
<civodul>it doesn't solve the rendez-vous issue, thoug
<mark_weaver>do you know about magnet links?
<civodul>hmm yes, but why?
<viric>civodul: I never understood that vpn fully
<mark_weaver>What are the requirements you have in the mind for the rendez-voud?
<civodul>in an ideal world, you'd do a DHT-like lookup of the binary you want
<viric>civodul: I didn't get how to access in-gnunet hosts. It looks it's only for routing to internet, without addresses for gnunet nodes
<civodul>and find all the people that have a copy
<civodul>viric: well nodes in the VPN have an IP address within that network, right?
<mark_weaver>I confess I'm not an expert on this, but from what I know, it sounds to me like magnet links do what's needed. IIUC, they basically encode a hash of the contents.
<viric>I don't remember so
<viric>that'd be in a usual vpn
*taylanub has been trying out Freenet again recently
<mark_weaver>I confess I don't know the details of how magnet links are resolved. looking now.
<mark_weaver>ah, indeed modern Bittorrent clients uses a DHT to look up magnet links.
<mark_weaver>civodul: I think modern bittorrent clients such as Transmission might do everything we need.
<mark_weaver>it's definitely worth looking into.
<mark_weaver>obviously it would be nice to use GNUnet also, when it's ready and when there's a decent size network in place.
<mark_weaver>but I think BitTorrent does what we need today.
<mark_weaver>Transmission also has a good architecture for our needs. There's a deamon, and several front-ends to talk to the daemon, including a command-line interface.
<civodul>mark_weaver: ok, let's look into that, then
<civodul>GNUnet has a similar architecture, BTW
<viric>mark_weaver: magnet links can include trackers. It's about getting the meta torrent file per its hash index.
<mark_weaver>are trackers needed when magnet links are used?
<mark_weaver>I think the answer is "no". Trackers can optionally be provided in a magnet link, in which case the DHT is not needed.
<mark_weaver>(but I confess that I'm not 100% sure of any of this)
<civodul>does Transmission come with a DHT for tracker lookups?
*gzg 's RYF wireless card, finally came in and is setting up his bootstrap system on his main laptop - hopefuly he will be able to get xorg going on it. :^P
<viric>transmission has PEX and DHT
<viric>That's what I use most.
<viric>peer exchange
<civodul>what's that? :-)
<viric>talk with other nodes to interchange peers to connect to
<viric>to have a bigger number of known peers
<civodul>oh, ok
<viric>you want peers, if you expect to use the DHT
<civodul>i see
<civodul>viric: so how would you handle distribution of binaries?
<civodul>what's your take?
<viric>civodul: have you ever heard the expression "cap a pe" or "cap a pie"?
<viric>ok :)
<jmd>you have now.
<civodul>hey, jmd
<viric>DHT is decentralised, but for that, it is no silent at all about what you have and what you don't have.
<civodul>yes, but let's assume we don't aim for anonymity, to start with
<viric>I found that one nice take is to use open trackers.
<civodul>so BT?
<viric>if the trackers stop working, you can have the dht in any case.
<viric>I think it's the easiest approach.
<civodul>so the DHT contains BitTorrent "seeds", right?
<civodul>whatever it's called
<viric>I imagine so. Well, I think they name it DHT, but it's not formally like a DHT
<civodul>interesting :-)
<viric>There is inter-peer encryption too; I found that rtorrent and transmission don't talk very well through DHT with encryption set to *required*.
<viric>the open trackers work really well nowadays. and
<civodul>open trackers = centralized directory?
<viric>When you add trackers to a torrent, it is not a requirement for the clients to use the trackers
<viric>So you always have the DHT as fallback
<viric>civodul: "open trackers" means that whatever torrent you seed with them, they track it.
<viric>you simply add any open trackers to your torrent, and all works.
<viric>those open trackers allow peers to meet quickly.
<viric>"not open" trackers, means that they allow tracking ONLY of some torrents. For example, those you uploaded to their website having an account. Or those they chose somehow to track.
<viric>if you add them as a tracker for a torrent you create, they will not cooperate.
<viric>(unless you use any out-of-band procedure that makes them accept it :)
<viric>for example, thepiratebay only tracks torrents you push to their website with your account, iirc.
<viric>those of the open trackers ask you please not to use them for illegal things.
<viric>civodul: is there any coreutil, that will take a text file consisting of \\n and \\n\\n, and will change that to space and \\n?
<viric>consisting of alphanumeric, plus \\n and \\n\\n I mean. :)
<viric>and spaces. well, normal text.
<civodul>viric: ok, but in practice are open trackers centralized services, like
<civodul>viric: about your question, perhaps sed or tr, no?
<viric>tr -s '\\n' ?
<civodul>looks like it, yes
<civodul>don't know for sure :-)
<viric>hm I can't think of such tr combination. and sed works per line
<viric>tr -s '\\n' changes '\\n\\n' to '\\n', but not '\\n' to ' '.
<gzg>Okay, xinit builds -- probably going to submit patch soon. I'm still on the fence, if I should do xterm, because right now I'm leaning towards "st" as a terminal emulator.
<gzg>I forgot, what should we do if the build system doesn't find the C Compiler?
<gzg>In this case, GNU's.
*gzg decided to go with ST for the time being, seeing it's so minimal.
<gzg>It's odd, seeing that it builds with gcc... then complains at the tail end.
*gzg will brb.
<civodul>gzg: we don't provide the 'cc' executable, just 'gcc'
<civodul>./configure is fine with that
<civodul>if it's another build system, you might need to tweak it somehow
<gzg>civodul: ST doesn't use a configure script, just make. :^P
<civodul>then i guess "make CC=gcc" should work
<civodul>what's ST?
<gzg>civodul: It's a "simple terminal" developed by Suckless, the people who wrote Dwm.
<gzg>Man, this is going to be so-much easier once we have a bootable install image ... right now, this all has been a little more than akward, via this hybrid approach. :^)
<davexunit>suckless: recompile C programs every time you want to tweak something. :)
<gzg>Really, for my needs -- purposes, I don't even need a terminal emulator outside of emacs, if I can figure how to auto-open a telnet connection to guile-wm, like the example given in the default config.
<davexunit>gzg: use geiser
<davexunit>M-x connect-to-guile
<davexunit>the example guile-wm config uses the default port for guile's REPL server.
<davexunit>I changed it to a different one and wrote an elisp function to connect to it, but if you don't often have another guile REPL server running then it's probably fine to leave it as the default.
<davexunit>I emailed a small patch to mark witmer last night. he will be merging it when he's back from vacation.
<gzg>davexunit: Ah! I really need to sit down one of these days and more-or-less "learn" geiser, me thinks... :^P
<davexunit>beware: don't accidentally try to move/resize the root window in guile-wm!
<gzg>davexunit: Man... now I have an urge. :^I
<civodul>davexunit: do you use it on a "real" X server?
<civodul>what happens when you move/resize the root window? :-)
<gzg>civodul: What denotes "real"?
<mark_weaver>I think "real" here means _not_ xnest/xephyr
<gzg>mark_weaver: civodul: Ah.
<davexunit>civodul: crash!
<davexunit>I haven't tried it on xnest/xephyr.
<gzg>Yeah, me neither -- on this end.
<davexunit>there's 1 more blocker bug in guile-wm for me, but I can't seem to replicate it. mark witmer has an idea of what is causing it so I hope that he just fixes it for me. :)
<gzg>Once 1.0 hits, we should really have a fundraiser or something, to bulk up Hydra. It's still unrespoesive, far too often. :^P
<gzg>davexunit: Does calling a command, which would pull up and display a dialog (such as "show-time") work for you? For me ... it's just a black-bar, that stays and looms there.
<davexunit>yeah those work for me.
<gzg>davexunit: Not sure what the problem is then -- it didn't work on my Debian box either. Are you grabbing from Guix, or Source?
<davexunit>I don't have a proper guix setup right now.
<gzg>davexunit: Maybe part of the problem on my end, then... :^P
*gzg will bbl, going to grab some early dinner.